acc/jera and competitive play

[Ranzo]

Lately we've seen more and more accursed pick-ups in defensive tri-lanes in competitive play, but I don't understand why they never, ever pick up jeraziah... let us compare:

Jera
-Very strong heal, can be used to offensively aswell -> almost same as acc heal, only a bit less strong
-maigc immume doesn't negate damage like acc shield does, but it does take away stuns etc...(I feel that is why they think acc is often so valuable) BUT in late game it's almost a perma bkb on your carry = IMBA (think pred :p)
- slow aura: basically the same deal as accursed 3rd skill but in the form of an aura, so it owns acc's burning blade shi
- ulti much, much stronger in teamfights and for the team in general then acc ulti

so far the only thing I can come up with is that acc heal is a bit stronger offensively as defensively and that his shield does not only dispell a stuns/slows/etc... but also negates damage and ofc it xplodes, but don't the other positives jeraziah brings to the team make up for that?

I know some would argue that jera doesn't work as good in tri's because he needs levels, but isn't this also the case for acc and yet he is used?

[Dev]

Jera is pretty level dependent and will get outleveled in a trilane. He's also easily countered with a Nullfire Blade. Accursed just provides more survivability to a carry at an early level than Jera does. I feel like I'm stating the obvious but these are the reasons why

[Kaiserjohan]

Jereziah is absolutely sick. The problem is he needs levels and decent farm to perform really well, but if he gets it, his support is unmatched. Accursed has better survivability and early game, but mid-late jera facerolls.

'Nullfire to counter' is a weak argument. First of, nullfire is not optimal for all agi heroes, especially those who already have orb. Secondly, it has a long CD and single target. Thirdly just put up a new repel when possible, one purge is not game breaking and does not kill your entire team...
The same can be said about nullfire and accursed, his shield and his ulti. People give the nullfire argument way way too much weight.

[Ranzo]

I know some would argue that jera doesn't work as good in tri's because he needs levels, but isn't this also the case for acc and yet he is used? --->


Jera is pretty level dependent and will get outleveled in a trilane.



so far the only thing I can come up with is that acc heal is a bit stronger offensively as defensively and that his shield does not only dispell a stuns/slows/etc... but also negates damage and ofc it xplodes, but don't the other positives jeraziah brings to the team make up for that?
--->


Accursed just provides more survivability to a carry at an early level than Jera does. I feel like I'm stating the obvious but these are the reasons why


EDIT: I just checked; accursed heals: 100/150/200/250
jera heals : 90/180/270/360

So basically i'm also stating the obvious in that jera doesn't only have the potential to bring more in the mid to late game, he also effectively brings more healing power from lv 3 and upwards, with only a difference of 10 HP at lv1, the fact remains tho, that jera's cooldown is double (12 vs 6). Maybe this is the main reason, but I still believe jera ia a potentially very valuable pick, yet he is never taken!

THIS GUY MUST BE TROLLING?
p.s. I feel like i'm stating the obvious?

So, what it comes down to basically is shield vs. magic immume
where shield:
Activation
Removes most debuffs and stuns, then applies Fire Shield to target for 15 seconds.
Fire Shield Effects
110 / 140 / 170 / 200 damage shield. Once full amount is absorbed, damages enemies in 700 radius for 110 / 140 / 170 / 200 Magic Damage.

and charm:

Activation
Applies Protective Charm to target for 5 / 8 / 11 / 14 seconds.

Isn't it weird that a hero such a jera who is debataly item dependant (boots and ring is basically all you need) is never picked over a hero like acc whilst the only real diffirence is the the fact that shield can effectively boost a hero's hp pool by 110/140/170/200 Hp? Isn't an early bkb worth so much more then that? Especially taking jera's mid game presence into account...

p.p.s. if you, as a support make the opponents carry 'waste' 3300g on an item just to counter you, isn't that already mission accomplished, especially since with or without jera, your carry should often consider bkb.
p.p.p.s. plz don't troll by saying 'OMFG WASTE=NULFIAR? IT GIEF AGI AND INT IZ PRO ITEM AND SLOW, since the recent buff with infinite charges on 2nd level it is a strong item, but definitely not an ideal pick-up for most carries (otherwise we would see more of it and it woulnd't be considered a situational pickup )

[Ranzo]

Bamp for great justice

[Isoleucine]

Jere heal:
90 / 180 / 270 / 360 Health
Mana Cost: 100 / 120 / 140 / 160
Cooldown: 12.0 Seconds

limited nuke use in a tri-lane since someone has to be standing next to them, which means you will rarely hit that valk or whoever.

Jere has 17 starting int and 1.8 per lvl

Accursed
100 / 150 / 200 / 250 Health + half damage to yourself
Mana Cost: 75
Cooldown: 6.0 Seconds

This meang more heals are coming out of accursed early and it adds utility with the possibility to use it as a nuke and to deny yourself.

Accursed has 21 starting int and 2 per lvl.


The other factors are likely meta game involved. If you pick either of these guys you aren't going for an aggressive tri-lane. Most of the times I've seen accursed picked it was to babysit a SR with a PR or VJ or some sort of line-up like that. Jere's shield becomes terrible then because it also blocks friendly spells. It also is harder to use reactively and you usually have to anticipate it's need.

Then there are small things like accursed being harder to kill in a gank because of his ult, and accursed shield being able to be applied before shrunken is activated and then not removed upon activation for that extra hp/damage on your carry.

[dreta]

IMHO Accursed without levels and farm is going to be stronger than Jereziah, because of the R making him very hard to take down (also it's 1/3 the cooldown of the Jereziah's R) and his alot smaller mana dependancy. Also Jereziah's W means you can't be healed and doesn't protect you from auto-attack damage and physical abilities. Jereziah's Q has twice the cooldown of Accursed's, same goes for their W, also Accursed can deny himself with his Q.

[RyHon]

in addition to what isoleucine and dreta said,
Shield is spammable and can harass 3 people when vs a trilane, and cauterize can also harass, while jeraziah has no harassment and is unlikely to hit more than one person with heal nuke.

Shield removes stuns and can be cast after initiation, protective charm does not and needs to be cast before initiation.

Accursed ult allows him to remain useful without items and while being underleveled.

Add all this to the fact that jeraziah has huge mana problems without a ring of sorcery, and it is pretty obvious who is better in a trilane.

p.s Saying you make them waste 3300 gold when you get jeraziah is a gross exaggeration. Nullfire is only marginally less good than other damage items in the average situation. For instance if the carry would normally have gotten shieldbreaker, but instead got nullfire, they lose 18 damage and -6 armor debuff, and they gain 22 attack speed, 20 mana drain, 3 armor, the ability to purge/slow, and 1100 gold. Hardly a waste of 3300

[Roefl]

Jeraziah needs levels to be a good support and accursed doesnt.
Nuff said.

[TRYTROUSERS]

....

[Gimatria]

Trixi played Jera mid a couple of times and did pretty good with him. I believe he won at least a game against a TB on mid.
And another team (can't recall which team it was) played jera in combination with hag, which had a nullstone. Result: Hag blinks in with Repel, enemy can't use nullfire to purge shield of because of the nullstone.

As why he's never picked up as a trilane support, that's answered in the posts above.

[Kudryavka]

Because Acc's shield is one of the most powerful lvl 1 skills in the game. Jera isn't really useful until 20+ minutes in to the game. Jera trilanes can work, but you pick Jera to do something completely different than what you pick Accursed to do. Accursed is much more useful without gold/levels than Jera is.

Also, picking Accursed versus an enemy Valk pick is a pretty huge middle finger to that guy, and Valk is popular. :)

[Ubiquitus]

Accursed can also deny himself.

[PRicoChet]

Yes. Accursed's Fire Shield is just so useful, and he has a slightly larger mana pool to support his abilities. Jeriziah cannot use his abilities out of a whim w/o considering his mana. I also hate how precise Jeriziah's abilities must be in the sense that you must have a set plan on which to use at any given situation. In the end, I would recommend Accursed because his abilities are much more versatile and straight forward.

[SzpT]

Neither jera nor acc require farm: both pretty much max out in usefulness at lv9 or 11, and both can easily make do with just striders and maybe a mana battery.

The only problem is jeraziah is a deadweight in lane (no mana, less heals), while acc is super useful (decent amount of mana, more heals on shorter cd, dispells stuns)

[SomeWeirdSin]

Nullfire is not an orb in HoN.

[MadBayer]

Jera was picked up for a few times soloing mid or sidelane even...
was fun to watch, but obviously doenst fit into many lineups.

[Farosarg]

Accursed got banned against MSI after NoVa_ displayed some really clutch plays on him. You see him picked on defensive farm lanes from time to time. Jera is harder to fit into a line-up as he generally wants to get levels faster and is of limited use early on.

[Mr`X]

Jeraziah can't fit in trilane Mancosts 2 high, 2 level dependant. I remember seeing Nova on accursed being level 1 8 min ingame, and he was still preventing ganks cause the shield just removed their stuns. Jera can't do that.

On the other hand Jera is a great solo, and its seen rather often i must say.

[Specp2]

also jerry is only really viable as a late or last pick so you don't just counter pick him. The games where he has been played, by msi or dwi just the other day, he's usually picked last. (can't remember when dwi picked him) It is cool to see him played slightly more often in competitive games than he used to be though.

[Mankrik]

No one seems to want to mention the biggest difference.

If we're talking about trilanes, your ability to do damage is as important as your ability to support. Accursed does significantly more damage than jeraziah. He also doesn't have any positional requirements, which in my opinion is the greater factor. It's rare that jer can use his heal both offensively and defensively in a trilane given that most trilanes rely on range to survive.

I also disagree with your casual dismissal of the two E's. Jeraziah's E is barely useful and only really does anything when you go silly carry builds with him. It might be better if it was a larger slow or had a larger radius, but for the moment it's not spectacular. Sear, on the other hand, is barely about the slow at all. That's not what makes it good. It's the attack speed benefit for your entire team, a mini-frenzy that doesn't require casting or for you to, you know, have a blacksmith.

So: He does more damage more easily. He heals more and has a shorter cooldown dispel. He has better mana gain. His ult allows him to function underleveled without just becoming a snack. His E is significantly better for your team. In the face of all of these factors, the difference in their Rs is not enough to make jeraziah a competent trilane support. I don't mean to say that jeraziah is flatly inferior as a whole (repel is spectacular until countered), but trilanes are an entirely different game than what we typically regard as balance.

[Solbriller]

If it hasn't already been said, Accursed's 3rd skill is a debuff on the enemies so his allies (hint: the carry) will also get the extra as/ms buff when attacking that target. Since the game is about buffing up the carry so he can kill the enemies, his 3rd skill is actually pretty ****ing great. Free 40as/10%ms for the carry.


Edit: ****, shoulda read page 2...

[PRicoChet]

Ya Sear is actually not a bad skill, especially now that it is passive. With Ghost Marchers you can get that Sear debuff in and have another ally also use it to their advantage. Jeriziah's slow is a little stronger, but Sear has its uses.