PDA

View Full Version : Basic Laning Guide



Nome
07-15-2009, 02:34 PM
This is the first in a series of generalized guides on playing a full game of HoN:
Laning
Ganking
Pushing and Teamfighting

Laning refers to the beginning stage of the game in which heroes enter the 3 lanes and gain gold and XP through killing creeps and occasionally each other. This is a vital time, as your team's performance during the laning stage sets the conditions for the ganks, fights, and pushes to come.

Information presented will be in a color gradient according to level of difficulty: Easy Intermediate Advanced.



Changelog
7/15: Created
7/16: Starting items, creep blocking, checking runes added.
8/04: When to use AoE/single target spells, clash management added.
Starting Items
Your starting item selection can both work for or against you. In general,if you are a new player, you should aim for survivability.

Always grab regeneration. It's not uncommon even at higher levels for players to spend a few hundred gold on Runes of Blight.

Laning is when you'll be gaining most of your XP. Even leaving your lane for a minute will allow your opponent to get a level or two advantage on you. Therefore, design your item build to allow yourself to have maximum staying power.

Anticipate your enemies. If you're going Legion bottom, which is your defensive lane, you shouldn't expect to fight a Thunderbringer, who will surely be going mid solo. Instead, you should expect to fight a caster/tank combo that maximizes their own survivability. Likewise, if you go Legion top, your dangerous lane, expect to fight defensie heroes. Select your items carefully according to their lineup.
Creep Blocking
Not to be confused with neutral blocking. Creep blocking is a maneuver to delay a creep wave from arriving in battle. This provides you with an advantage--the battle will begin closer to your tower. In middle, this can provide a huge advantage if you time it such that the battle occurs largely on high ground, and your opponent has a 30% chance to miss!
To creep block, maneuver in front of a creep wave and move slowly in front of it, dancing back and forth and occasionally hitting stop. This will delay its arrival.

Time your creep block so that the waves do not clash in front of your tower. If they do, you messed up, and it's actually counterproductive because the lane will now naturally push.

If the lane is pushed out too far, and you have a lanemate, either you or a lanemate should temporarily abandon the lane and move back to block the next wave to create a more favorable situation.
Last-hitting
Last-hitting is the most basic maneuver of laning. It's how you will be making the majority of your income as well as the most effective way to keep your opponent behind in gold and XP.
To perform a last-hit, time your attack such that you kill the low-HP creep in one blow. Attempting to do it in multiple hits leaves the creep open to being killed by another player.

To effectively last-hit, you must understand your hero's damage, factoring in any random damage spread, applied status effects, and projectile or swing speed. You must also understand these components for the opposing heroes.

You can attack-cancel by clicking A on the creep, then quickly hitting S before the attack animation finishes. Repeat this quickly, and you have a timing advantage if your attack is already in mid-animation when the creep hits last-hit HP range.
Denying
Denying will deprive opponents of XP. By doing this, you can create a difference in levels, giving you a huge early advantage. You can only deny creeps that are less than 50% HP. Towers can be denied once they're less than 135 HP.

To deny an allied creep, last-hit it.

If you are presented with both the opportunity to last-hit an enemy creep and to deny your own, deny your own if the opponent is a carry, and last-hit the enemy creep if he is not.

An effective way to deny is to first harass an enemy hero, forcing him to move back, then go for the deny.
Harassment
Harassing a hero, depending on your role, can be the primary or secondary role in laning. If you have an orb-walker, or nuker, it is your primary. If you are a late-game carry, allow your lanemate to harass.
To effectively harass, you should minimize damage to yourself. Spells and orb/arrow effects will not draw creep aggro. Use them to put pressure on your opponent.

You don't have an infinite supply of mana, however. If you right-click an enemy hero, you will inevitably draw creep aggro. Therefore, move into range first, then right-click to harass, then quickly pull back to avoid damage.

Keep an eye on your health. Regeneration items are great for harassment, because damage taken from creeps while you're harassing can be healed. You should always try to maintain high health when harassing, because harassing places you at a positional disadvantage.
Checking Runes
Runes spawn either top or bottom river every 2 minutes. If you have a Bottle, you can store the rune for later use. It will also recharge your Bottle. A more in-depth analysis of runes can be found here (http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?t=5285).
If you lane mid, you can check rune every time you are in the river. Just by walking northwards, you can see if the rune is there. If it's not there, alert your team, then go see if it's bottom.

If you're laning bottom, you should check rune only if you're at a severe disadvantage, or if you're jungling and are able to take a quick peek. This is because it's a long, long walk to the rune from your tower, and you'll miss a lot of XP. If you're laning top, you can go take a look every time your wave pushes out a bit.

At the beginning of each game, one hero top and one hero bottom should check their respective sides of the river for the starting 0:00 rune. Depending on your lineup and the rune, it's quite possible to get Bloodlust.
Staying Alive
If you find yourself in a difficult lane, your utmost priority is to stay alive.
Stay outside of attack and spell range, but stay within XP range. If you see that your XP meter isn't increasing with each creep death, try to move closer. If they continue to play aggressively, tower hug until the creeps come close.

If you have a lot of idle mana, or are desperate for XP and gold, you can use nukes to last-hit.

Ask for a gank or a lane change. If you are in a dual-lane, and both heroes are getting suppressed, then you can also go ganking yourself. You will help the team out, and your lanemate will reap the benefits of single-hero XP gain.
Neutral Pulling
The Legion bottom lane and Hellbourne top lane can neutral-pull. Pulling neutral creeps will allow for easy neutral-farming, and will often deny your own creeps outside of enemy XP range.
To perform a neutral pull, walk close to or attack the outermost neutral camp to draw aggro. Time it so that when your run, you will run straight into your own advancing creep wave. Allow the neutrals to attack you right as your creep wave walks by, and it will draw their aggro.

To counter neutral pulling, buy and place wards at the enemy neutral camps, or alternatively use your own hero or an illusion to block their spawn by sitting there at the 60 second marks.

Neutral creeps spawn every 60 seconds. If you draw the neutrals out at the right time, you can cause a double spawn. Double spawns provide more gold and XP, and will almost certainly wipe out an entire wave. If the neutrals are particularly strong, you can wipe out two or three entire creep waves, causing the enemy heroes to be severely deprived of XP.
Static Farming
Static farming is a defensive method of gaining XP and gold. It relies on the player having strong last-hitting in order to maintain a static position between the two clashing creep waves. Preferably, this position is close to an allied tower, providing for easy escape and defense. On the other hand, if you do not static farm, the wave will inevitably push out, making you vulnerable to ganks.
To static-farm, only attack enemy creeps you can last-hit. However, if there are no enemy heroes near, you should attack allied creeps the second they are vulnerable to denial until they are dead. Do not worry about getting the deny here.

If enemy heroes approach you, send out a ping to your allies, then dodge into the trees or towers. If possible, teleport out.

You can avoid the lane being pushed out by never allowing the creepwaves to reach a tower. If you find that the enemy creeps are approaching tower range, tank them by dancing in circles until your own creeps arrive. While you will take some damage, this prevents the creeps from being wiped out by a tower, and the lane being pushed.

Clash Management
Clash management is an overarching term that refers to controlling the position at which allied and enemy creep waves collide.
You can alter clash position by entering creep range, then right-clicking (issuing an attack order) on an enemy hero. This will force enemy creep aggro onto you. Now move back--they will follow you for a short bit before re-engaging allied creeps. You have now moved the creeps closer to you.

You can use clash management in order to level faster than your opponent. If you solo-mid Thunderbringer, it may be wise to pull enemy creeps repeatedly towards you until they are in tower range. This will kill the creeps faster, allowing you to have a temporary level advantage for faster nuking power.

Clash management can be performed by all heroes. A good opponent will drag the creeps towards himself and his tower. If he does this, you should harass him as he does it, to pull the creeps back to you. It's a big tug-of-war!

When to Single-Target Nuke
Single-target nukes tend to be costly in terms of mana, as they tend to be found on non-INT heroes. However, they can be very useful in preventing denies, though they should be used sparingly.
You can use a single-target nuke to prevent a deny, or to kill a creep you can't get with your normal attack.

If the nuke is a stun, you should generally avoid using it, as you should always have a big mana pool for the stun. One of the few exceptions here is Blacksmith, who can keep his stun at LVL1 to last hit, as he has a huge mana pool. However, you should follow the advice given in purple for "When to AoE Nuke" regarding leveling the skill--that is, keep the skill points unspent so you can use it at its highest level when you need to.

If you have Glacius on your team, you are a lot more free to use your mana. However, gauge your enemy first--does he have a ton of regen? If so, and your nuke harassment isn't worth it, spend your spells on creeps. In general, harassment is a lot stronger, as it forces an enemy back, letting you get last-hits anyway.

When to AoE Nuke
Damage spells, especially AoE nukes, should be used with caution and only under the correct circumstances. Understanding how your spell works is paramount to using it correctly.
AoE nuking (ie, Defiler's Wave of Death) of creeps should generally be avoided, as it pushes the lane. You should only AoE nuke to avoid a deny or to get a last-hit you'll miss with your normal attack. When AoE nuking, position yourself and your nuke such that it will not only hit the targeted creeps, but will hit your enemy too. This way, you get the most out of it.

The fact that an AoE nuke is AoE does not imply that you should hit as many creeps as you can with it. If there is a low-HP Warlock in the back, don't just nuke the entire wave. Move into position so that it only hits the Warlock and if possible, enemy heroes.

If you are using a farm-centric build, such as rushing Sacrificial Heart, under the correct circumstances it may be wise to keep your AoE nuke at LVL1. For example, Defiler has enough lane control power to keep Wave of Death at LVL1 and max out Power in Death. In this case, you should not get stats, but rather, leave the skill points unspent. This way, when you do need them (for a kill, or for serious harassment), you can spend them rather than having to level a lot more just to do more damage.

Map Awareness
Most players, understandably, only pay attention to the one or two heroes they're fighting in their lane. Most players are also understandably upset when a third hero comes out of nowhere and kills them. Don't be that guy who dies--or that guy who gets blamed for not calling the lane.
Always call your lane. If you don't see a hero, type "bot mia/top mia/mid mia" right away. If they reappear in 2 seconds, type "nm".

If you KNOW a hero is going somewhere, specify it. If you're mid, and you see your opponent start moving into the river for a rune, type "mid to bot rune".

Ping multiple times if you know the projected path of a hero. This can catch attention much better--if I'm mid, and see my opponent start heading bottom, I take a quick glance at my team's health. If my ally is low, I'll ping a path from the opponent's last known position straight to my ally so he knows exactly what's going on. This takes 2 seconds max.
Hope it helps!

DrRisan
07-15-2009, 02:38 PM
Muchas gracias, reading now!

Captain
07-15-2009, 09:40 PM
Pretty sweet! Good job mate.

Tr1cKSt3R
07-15-2009, 10:23 PM
The problem is that noobs are wont to just play and never look on the forums, except to post their own QQ threads.
You might also want to add that Runes respawn every 2 minutes and the exact time that you should pull creeps at. i think it's somewhere around 21-22 seconds or 51-52 seconds idk.. i've only bothered to pull a few times and i just eyeballed it. it's a little harder in HoN because if the neuts aren't actively attacking you than your creeps won't aggro to them.

Nome
07-16-2009, 01:27 AM
The problem is that noobs are wont to just play and never look on the forums, except to post their own QQ threads.
You might also want to add that Runes respawn every 2 minutes and the exact time that you should pull creeps at. i think it's somewhere around 21-22 seconds or 51-52 seconds idk.. i've only bothered to pull a few times and i just eyeballed it. it's a little harder in HoN because if the neuts aren't actively attacking you than your creeps won't aggro to them.

Yeah, I'll update it soon. I don't really look at the timer either, and just do it by eye.

TBH, grabbing two creeps per wave is the best way to go, because they will most likely die.

SamMumm
07-16-2009, 01:57 AM
This really helped me alot!
Thanks

Styvis
07-16-2009, 10:13 AM
Nicely done, laning is something that took a while to figure out.

Raspyn
07-16-2009, 10:15 AM
Great tips, the neutral creep pulling part particularly helped me.

Cheeseus
07-16-2009, 10:53 AM
Please forgive my ignorance, I'm rather a noob. I'm reading your Neutral Pulling advice, and I'm not fully understanding how to employ it effectively.

Keeping in mind my lack of skill and knowledge, meaning I'm in an EM game, should I try to use this tactic, or will it leave our squishier towers (I read normal mode towers are more powerful) open to be worked on, which could lead to giving the other team an early tower kill. Should I have a tank lane partner with some health regen sit in front of the tower and tank the mobs, so that the tower will kill them in good time, without taking damage, and he can get full exp, and regain his hp over time?

And at what point should I pull the mobs (in terms of overall game play, not at 0:22 seconds. Level 1, level 4, when i have xxx hp, etc)? Assuming it's going to be the southmost group for sentinals, they're pretty leveled. Don't i risk being killed by them alone, let alone a gank?

And speaking of ganking, I assume that's the point of the wards? You see buddy pulling adds, and double team him in the middle of his two towers, while he's being worked on by the adds?

I appreciate any insight people can give to better myself, and make this game more enjoyable/competitive :)

Vadi
07-16-2009, 11:40 AM
Thanks for the guide!

Nome
07-16-2009, 08:51 PM
Added information on starting items, creep blocking, and checking runes.

Jake
07-17-2009, 09:13 AM
Some good notes:

Ring of teacher will give armor aura to your creeps and your creeps will own enemy creeps so they will push harder -> disadvantage. So click ring once so the aura is only for heroes.

How to push down tower:
First of all 2v2 line tower pushing is very risky. But if you get enemy heroes killed or force to leave the lane there are several good ways to push tower fast.
1. Use aoe spells on creeps
2. Set ring of teacher on
3. kill creeps as soon as possible (not just last hitting)

After getting to enemy tower you should tower dive and
a) tank & destroy next creep wave
b) lure enemy creeps to neutrals
This way your creeps wont change target from tower to enemy creeps

Also getting help from 3rd ally is advised.

The best tower pushers:
- Defiler (aoe skill + ulti can attack tower)
- Axe (tower dive and finish creeps very fast with your passive)
- Jereziah (one heal + cleave attack finishes a wave)
- Swiftblade (Bladefurry)
- Pubbles (aoe skills, toss will do dmg to tower)

Snidgel
07-18-2009, 09:18 PM
Speaking of stacking camps, in HoN it's silly. You barely have to move outside their spawning area as compared to DotA where you have to kite them a long way to get new spawns. You simply just pull them outside the spawn while still having full vision and range to the camp and you still get a new camp.

Rutee
07-18-2009, 09:22 PM
I like this guide a lot!

What is meant by "The Legion's Bottom/The Hellbourne's Top" lanes are defensive towers?

Jblaze1
07-18-2009, 09:30 PM
You should add think of strong lanes before the match to be more effective
Ex. Glacies-Swiftblade prob best lane in the game

fulgorestyle
07-19-2009, 12:12 AM
I like this guide a lot!

What is meant by "The Legion's Bottom/The Hellbourne's Top" lanes are defensive towers?


the creeps meet at the middle point of the map

the top hellbourne tower is closer to the creeps and the legion bottom tower is closer to the creeps

when you creep block your own creeps in these lanes, you can potentially force the fight to be at your tower making it impossible for the other time to last hit or deny. then you can creep pull in these lanes to keep it like that practically the entire time. it's possible, not common

muthafacka
07-23-2009, 01:33 PM
nice...
all that things are wellknown from dota, but some notes are ... nice!...
Author, gj =)

Bochofilo
07-23-2009, 01:49 PM
Nice guide! Excelent way to describe several situation in a game and posible solutions.

Utred
07-23-2009, 02:55 PM
Very nice guide. Big help for new people like me.

zyphaz
07-25-2009, 12:49 AM
Much thanks for this guide. It helps a boat load for those that didn't have much DoTA time.

Im4n00b
07-28-2009, 06:30 AM
A very noobie question, But how do I get my own creeps?

Nome
07-28-2009, 06:31 AM
What do you mean by your own creeps?

drasked
07-28-2009, 08:25 AM
Nice guide, maby add something about map awareness, not sure how much this has to do with laning tho.

Soulspawn
07-28-2009, 10:37 PM
that is very nice should add something about missing heroes and avoiding ganks

Vampiress
07-28-2009, 11:33 PM
Lovely guide, Nome!

If I may, I would add that under your "Denying" paragraph you should mention that it is only possible to attack, and deny, your own allied creeps when they are at a low health, and also add that this can be (and should be!) done to your own towers.

Nome
07-29-2009, 12:00 AM
Thanks for the comments!

Map awareness/calling MIA section added. Also added the deny details = )

iNeuron1
07-31-2009, 02:13 PM
Denying
Denying will deprive opponents of XP. By doing this, you can create a difference in levels, giving you a huge early advantage. You can only deny creeps that are less than 50% HP. Towers can be denied once they're less than 135 HP.

Towers are denyable once they reach below 10% hp. Meaning 1st tower deniable at 135 and 2nd tower at 160 hp.

Hellshock
08-02-2009, 01:18 PM
I found this guide extremely helpful - this is all great meta-game info that I don't have because I never played DotA.

Questions:

Is the point of neutral pulling to take out the other team's creeps more effectively or to farm more xp for myself?

Why is it a disadvantage to use the Ring of the Teacher aura, give my creeps armor and thus help push them towards the next tower?

You mention in your guide that you can use blocking to make fights happen on high ground so your creeps have a hit percentage increase? Is this due to being on high ground? How does that work exactly?

zp3dd4
08-02-2009, 03:32 PM
You might want to mention when it is ok to use nukes:
i.e. when you can last hit 2 creeps + 1 hero for example

failtrain
08-02-2009, 03:40 PM
Can you explain in more detail the concepts of the danger/safe lanes for the two teams? Didn't know there was even a difference, nor what those differences could be.

KongKP
08-03-2009, 11:39 PM
Please forgive my ignorance, I'm rather a noob. I'm reading your Neutral Pulling advice, and I'm not fully understanding how to employ it effectively.

Keeping in mind my lack of skill and knowledge, meaning I'm in an EM game, should I try to use this tactic, or will it leave our squishier towers (I read normal mode towers are more powerful) open to be worked on, which could lead to giving the other team an early tower kill. Should I have a tank lane partner with some health regen sit in front of the tower and tank the mobs, so that the tower will kill them in good time, without taking damage, and he can get full exp, and regain his hp over time?

And at what point should I pull the mobs (in terms of overall game play, not at 0:22 seconds. Level 1, level 4, when i have xxx hp, etc)? Assuming it's going to be the southmost group for sentinals, they're pretty leveled. Don't i risk being killed by them alone, let alone a gank?

And speaking of ganking, I assume that's the point of the wards? You see buddy pulling adds, and double team him in the middle of his two towers, while he's being worked on by the adds?

I appreciate any insight people can give to better myself, and make this game more enjoyable/competitive :)

I can't answer all of your questions, but i can say that the idea of the wards is to prevent new creeps from spawning. If you have vision of a creep camp when they are supposed to respawn, (every whole minute) they simply won't.

Nome
08-03-2009, 11:52 PM
I found this guide extremely helpful - this is all great meta-game info that I don't have because I never played DotA.

Questions:

Is the point of neutral pulling to take out the other team's creeps more effectively or to farm more xp for myself?

Why is it a disadvantage to use the Ring of the Teacher aura, give my creeps armor and thus help push them towards the next tower?

You mention in your guide that you can use blocking to make fights happen on high ground so your creeps have a hit percentage increase? Is this due to being on high ground? How does that work exactly?

1. Neutral pulling offers a way to not only deny XP (neutrals will beat on allied creeps) but also to create a new stream of XP/gold income for your team.

2. Because you don't want to push unless you actually WANT to push. Pushing will take the battle away from your tower, which will make you more susceptible to harassment and ganks.

3. I believe uphill miss on ranged attacks is 30%--not sure.

kusiub
08-04-2009, 09:05 AM
Thanks a lot...

Lemmings1
08-04-2009, 11:13 PM
[/INDENT]Static Farming
Static farming is a defensive method of gaining XP and gold. It relies on the player having strong last-hitting in order to maintain a static position between the two clashing creep waves. Preferably, this position is close to an allied tower, providing for easy escape and defense. On the other hand, if you do not static farm, the wave will inevitably push out, making you vulnerable to ganks.[INDENT]To static-farm, only attack enemy creeps you can last-hit. However, if there are no enemy heroes near, you should attack allied creeps the second they are vulnerable to denial until they are dead. Do not worry about getting the deny here.

If enemy heroes approach you, send out a ping to your allies, then dodge into the trees or towers. If possible, teleport out.

You can avoid the lane being pushed out by never allowing the creepwaves to reach a tower. If you find that the enemy creeps are approaching tower range, tank them by dancing in circles until your own creeps arrive. While you will take some damage, this prevents the creeps from being wiped out by a tower, and the lane being pushed.


Finally, I have a name for it. I've been doing this for years and yet whenever I try to explain it to someone they are oblivious as to its utility. I have seen only a handful of players outside of scrims (and not too many in scrims) do this.

Nome
08-05-2009, 01:49 AM
=3
Thanks for the comments.

Added some more stuff to the guide.

Gabe
08-07-2009, 10:41 AM
Please forgive my ignorance, I'm rather a noob. I'm reading yourNeutral Pulling advice, and I'm not fully understanding how to employ it effectively.
It's great that you're asking questions to learn :).


Keeping in mind my lack of skill and knowledge, meaning I'm in an EM game, should I try to use this tactic, or will it leave our squishier towers (I read normal mode towers are more powerful) open to be worked on, which could lead to giving the other team an early tower kill. Should I have a tank lane partner with some health regen sit in front of the tower and tank the mobs, so that the tower will kill them in good time, without taking damage, and he can get full exp, and regain his hp over time?
Usually you want to pull the neutral creeps when your current creep wave is somewhat far away from your tower and closer to their tower. This wave it ensures that your tower receives minimal damage and pushes the wave closer to your tower where it is safer for you. Creeps hurt. Especially, early game. You should attack the creeps and pull them into your lane so your tower still hits them while they chase you, they should meet your next creep wave by then and engage them.


And at what point should I pull the mobs (in terms of overall game play, not at 0:22 seconds. Level 1, level 4, when i have xxx hp, etc)? Assuming it's going to be the southmost group for sentinals, they're pretty leveled. Don't i risk being killed by them alone, let alone a gank?
The biggest benefit of pulling neutral creeps comes early on when these mobs are strong (they don't grow in difficulty as the game progresses), and your creeps will be able to kill them while you last hit for gold, while accumulating good experience for the time frame.

You shouldn't need to be creep pulling later on in the game where you focus should be on pushing/ganking/farming in the lane(which is generally better gold).


And speaking of ganking, I assume that's the point of the wards? You see buddy pulling adds, and double team him in the middle of his two towers, while he's being worked on by the adds?
Don't really understand this question but from what I got wards will help you know when enemy gets wind of your neutralling and will give you ample time to react when you see them coming towards you. Keep in mind the biggest advantage of creep pulling is that you dont have to take damage/deal most of the damage to the neutral creeps, your ally creeps do it for you while you last hit to gain the gold.

Hope this helps. ;)

Lolpewpewpew
08-08-2009, 08:06 AM
Some good notes:

Ring of teacher will give armor aura to your creeps and your creeps will own enemy creeps so they will push harder -> disadvantage. So click ring once so the aura is only for heroes.

How to push down tower:
First of all 2v2 line tower pushing is very risky. But if you get enemy heroes killed or force to leave the lane there are several good ways to push tower fast.
1. Use aoe spells on creeps
2. Set ring of teacher on
3. kill creeps as soon as possible (not just last hitting)

After getting to enemy tower you should tower dive and
a) tank & destroy next creep wave
b) lure enemy creeps to neutrals
This way your creeps wont change target from tower to enemy creeps

Also getting help from 3rd ally is advised.

The best tower pushers:
- Defiler (aoe skill + ulti can attack tower)
- Axe (tower dive and finish creeps very fast with your passive)
- Jereziah (one heal + cleave attack finishes a wave)
- Swiftblade (Bladefurry)
- Pubbles (aoe skills, toss will do dmg to tower)

Isn't Tempest a good pusher too? When you have 6-12 Elementals, towers can go down pretty fast.
Well I'm a big nääb but I found it pretty easy as Tempest to push. What do you think?

ElementUser
08-08-2009, 11:37 AM
Are you going to add anything about dealing with creep-skipping Legionnaire's? It's an easy thing to counter if you have nukes/ranged heroes, but it's a different story if your lane consists of melee heroes.

Nome
08-08-2009, 02:45 PM
Are you going to add anything about dealing with creep-skipping Legionnaire's? It's an easy thing to counter if you have nukes/ranged heroes, but it's a different story if your lane consists of melee heroes.

I've yet to see a Legionnaire player do this effectively. Usually I just go straight to my tower and eat up all the XP. When I feel like I'm ready, I go harass/gank/kill the Legionnaire.

You're right in that melee have problems countering, but that's one of the reasons you should play mixed melee/ranged lanes = /

ElementUser
08-08-2009, 09:01 PM
You're right in that melee have problems countering, but that's one of the reasons you should play mixed melee/ranged lanes = /

Sometimes doesn't happen in pubs, unfortunately :(.

Though it's true, I haven't seen any creep-skipping Legionnaires yet. Only creep-skipping Axes in DotA

Marijuana
08-10-2009, 06:12 AM
Well done on the guide. Love it.

ChukNorris
08-10-2009, 09:53 AM
Nice...

SWARM_THEM
08-10-2009, 05:28 PM
Really nice guide. I don't understand the Defiler example in the AOE nuke section, though. Can you elaborate more on what you mean? Keep her nuke at L1 for conserving mana? What does that have to do with saving money for items?

ElementUser
08-10-2009, 06:13 PM
Really nice guide. I don't understand the Defiler example in the AOE nuke section, though. Can you elaborate more on what you mean? Keep her nuke at L1 for conserving mana? What does that have to do with saving money for items?

Level 1 Wave of Death doesn't push the lane as far because of its lower damage, and it also has a lower mana cost. Its sole purpose is to get some last hits on creeps and to have an easier freefarm time. I've never done this before though

Nome
08-10-2009, 06:18 PM
Level 1 Wave of Death doesn't push the lane as far because of its lower damage, and it also has a lower mana cost. Its sole purpose is to get some last hits on creeps and to have an easier freefarm time. I've never done this before though

Yeah, that's the idea.

It's a pretty bad idea at a competitive level :D
But at a casual level, even against higher mid-tier players, it works well if you're really planning on farming it up before doing anything else.

SWARM_THEM
08-10-2009, 06:47 PM
thanks for the clarification on the AOE nuke section, i never thought of that before. i'll try it sometime.

Vodka
08-12-2009, 03:10 AM
Hey Nome, love the guide, but I have a question:

Should you always aim to deny if you're mid (solo or dual lane) against a solo who isn't a hard carry (zeus, pyromancer, torturer, and nymph to some extent)?

ElementUser
08-12-2009, 08:13 AM
Hey Nome, love the guide, but I have a question:

Should you always aim to deny if you're mid (solo or dual lane) against a solo who isn't a hard carry (zeus, pyromancer, torturer, and nymph to some extent)?

In most cases, last-hits outprioritize denies. I just get as many last-hits as I can, but if there aren't any enemy creeps that are approaching the last-hit range, I'll deny or harass the enemy (depending on the soloer I have).

livmew
08-12-2009, 10:24 AM
Hey Nome, love the guide, but I have a question:

Should you always aim to deny if you're mid (solo or dual lane) against a solo who isn't a hard carry (zeus, pyromancer, torturer, and nymph to some extent)?

Last hit first, deny second. If you do both you're probably Soulstealer, but you still win at life. What you can do is to aggro-pull to force enemy+your creeps back towards you when the enemy hero moves in to last hit, and then hit him instead. You sort of "yank" him forward.

If you're up against Torturer, deny/harass like a madman. If that guy gets items, he will tear everything up.

Basically, ask yourself who needs the kills most. Deny/last hit accordingly. You perfect that skill over time through trial and failure; you'll also need to assess your enemy. If he's a horrible noob, you can more than likely forego the denies and just go right for harass/ganking him over and over.

Faust_Reet
08-13-2009, 01:06 PM
Thankyou very much, u made a great guide here. I'm noob and have played DotA only a few times, long ago, but I have understood lot of things with this post, i hope that will help me playing :D

WizOfOz
08-15-2009, 03:41 PM
Thanks a lot, it really opened my eyes about some strategies and I could definitely build up on what you've shared.

Damage
08-19-2009, 11:13 AM
Nome, for the staying alive section... I prefer turning on the show xp option in the game menu to make sure I'm within the xp range. It really helps you get the feel for the range to allow you to stay in that small window between cast range (600-700) and xp range (1000?)

Really helpful guide though. Thanks.

Zarent
08-19-2009, 11:54 AM
Hey Nome, it's actually possible to creep pull top lane Legion now. You could go the very obvious route and just tango a tree or two to get them to come to you, OR, since the creep pulling mechanic is so different, simply go at around :16-:17 or :46-:47.

Not that useful as utility, unless either the enemy is also creep pulling OR you have the tower down.


First time I managed to do it I got one of those whirlwind crows. The enemy decided that would be a brilliant time to gank us. My lanepartner got killed by neutrals, denying first blood :D

VonSoot
08-19-2009, 03:37 PM
Generally a great guide, need to add these tips in game for "newbies" when the game comes out, this game has a steep learning factor for people that never played DOTA or HoN before.

Okami
08-29-2009, 02:31 AM
Excellent guide, everyone should read this before they start playing.

BigHustles
09-10-2009, 03:06 AM
In the staying alive section, you cover tough lanes. If I pull back though and my opponents are doing really well farming and denying, then isn't it pointless to stay there since I wont be getting any exp from the denies?

You mentioned that one could go gank, but what If I suck at ganking?

Lose/lose?

NoobyBanana
09-13-2009, 04:34 PM
Good job!
Great guide!

PanKediayak
10-03-2009, 09:21 PM
Thanks for the great guide..

TheIronDuke
10-04-2009, 08:18 AM
Thanks for this!

Galneryus
10-31-2009, 06:54 PM
Good job, but I had already knew all bout this, but its explained detailed. Good job again!

daggertooth
11-03-2009, 10:41 AM
The problem is that noobs are wont to just play and never look on the forums, except to post their own QQ threads.
You might also want to add that Runes respawn every 2 minutes and the exact time that you should pull creeps at. i think it's somewhere around 21-22 seconds or 51-52 seconds idk.. i've only bothered to pull a few times and i just eyeballed it. it's a little harder in HoN because if the neuts aren't actively attacking you than your creeps won't aggro to them.
i find that 17 and 57 work best for a straight path to the creep wave, it minimizes the time in which the creeps are following you and therefore you take less damge from them.

Svalin
11-05-2009, 07:37 PM
THat would be 17 and 47

Laserbeak43
11-07-2009, 12:54 AM
Thanks. If anyone needs this guide, it's me. I've been playing dota for years and i'm still a noob :P

Dataslycer
11-19-2009, 04:29 AM
Clarification, it's not 135 HP to deny tower, it's 10% of tower max HP I believe.

Ricaz
11-19-2009, 01:19 PM
Clarification, it's not 135 HP to deny tower, it's 10% of tower max HP I believe.

This was already mentioned. :]

Thanks alot, Nome!
Can you link your other guides?

sNju
11-23-2009, 07:00 AM
Ricaz your signature should be "IM FEEDING WITH PLAGUE RIDER STFU!":p

Ricaz
11-24-2009, 02:23 AM
That's.. Funny :]

levo
11-28-2009, 07:53 AM
very nice guide thank you.

gwho1
11-28-2009, 06:20 PM
no mention of using aggro to pulll the confrontation closer to your side? i'd put this section right after the creep blocking section since they are related to keeping creeps on your side.

and place harrassment section right after it, since it touches on aggro as a bad thing. (chain topic flow)

when you're up against a hard lan,e you just try to stay in range of exp, and forego the gold. not sure if u mentioned this.

conversely, if you are a ranged hero, you can place yourself in front of the creep confrontation, and your attack radius in the opposite direction will push your enemy farther back out of exp range, disallowing him to passively gain exp. this is somewhat related to harassemnt so i would have this section next


You can attack-cancel by clicking A on the creep, then quickly hitting S before the attack animation finishes. Repeat this quickly, and you have a timing advantage if your attack is already in mid-animation when the creep hits last-hit HP range.
this sometimes leads to you changing targets due to auto target acquiring, does it not?

WSLaFleur
12-05-2009, 08:39 AM
Brilliant and comprehensive. That's just my two-cents.

Meat_Puppet
12-06-2009, 04:03 PM
After reading your guide, I went from completely overwhelmed to somewhat overwhelmed.

Great job, and thanks!

Laexio
12-15-2009, 11:05 PM
I'm pretty sure that denying towers is >10% hp

Padawanabee
12-15-2009, 11:13 PM
Correct. But the 1st towers have 1350, so it's true for them, at least.

Yinh
12-16-2009, 05:58 PM
Hey, thanks for posting this ! I'm still kinda new to HoN and it really helped me :)

muss
12-27-2009, 09:00 PM
Good work, Big help :)

MisterB
01-31-2010, 03:54 AM
Ty for your help and hard work!!

Sync
02-04-2010, 06:46 AM
Fantastic guide! Even as a decently experienced player, I still found many extremely helpful tips inside your guide. Thanks a ton.

Note: Towers can be denied when they are sub-130 HP, not 135, iirc.

Frabba
02-24-2010, 12:30 PM
Excellent guide, as a newbie this is going to help me alot.

Hadouk3N`
03-04-2010, 07:13 AM
Nice guide, being a nooby this should help out a lot(:

Thanks man!

soon2bdead
03-08-2010, 11:43 AM
Thanks for the guide! Its been a while since I've played DoTA and this is a great refresher.

Sparkworks
03-08-2010, 10:51 PM
omg ty nome. you are the one who taught me how to adapt to hon. ty.

zine
03-29-2010, 05:40 PM
Good job!

Eskiya
04-04-2010, 08:15 AM
Great, great guide. Has really helped me out, and gave me a better understanding of laning.
I missed out on quite some xp, because of the double creep spawn pull, now I understand why.


Its a bit too much to ask, but can you write up about;
-when the laning phase ''ends'' or for how long you ''lane''
-laning as a melee (mid or 2 melee lane)
-Hatchet, and on who/when to get it

Laning against certain heroes can shut down a lane, and sometimes you cant even
get near the creepwave (Swiftblade vs Vindicator).

Tauger
04-10-2010, 10:35 PM
nice guide reading since NOW! lol =)

HideNDragon
04-22-2010, 09:50 AM
soooo much info..... how much am i expected to learn from reading:pand:

BigBadAzz
04-24-2010, 07:17 AM
New too the game, am currently downloading. Im coming over from LoL so i might understand this a lot better than some other noobs but it was a great read! I'm surprised to learn you can last hit your own creeps O.o

dfzzLe
12-13-2010, 06:17 PM
Nice read, will be trying some of them tips out right now :)

pwn_U_fast
12-13-2010, 07:15 PM
niiiiiice guide. i think a lot of people should come to read this.

Omicron
02-22-2011, 11:42 PM
Just wondering if its worth mentioning in the AoE nuke section that if your lane opponents are not around it can be worth pushing the lane to the tower to deny creep experience and have the lane pushed back to your side. Its also beneficial to push the lane in mid to give yourself a chance to get the rune whilst your opponent deals with the creeps at his tower, with little loss to experience on your end.

Marach
02-23-2011, 05:10 AM
^ I would add what he said (for mid lane before the rune spawns)

also, couple of comments on the 'Neutral Pulling' section:

- it's not needed that you let neutral creeps attack you as your creep wave walks by. your creeps will aggro the neutrals automatically and there is no need to receive any damage from neutrals so I would fix that.

- state what the pulling times are

- note that pulling the unstacked (single) neutral camp will push you lane and that it should be double-stacked to completely deny your creep wave (and deny the exp to enemies)

maybe those tips were already mentioned, but I haven't read all the pages in the thread.

Decretium
03-25-2011, 05:36 AM
I still watch this guide every once a while and damn every newcomer should be directed to this.

Nuf
03-31-2011, 04:53 AM
Good guide for Beginner's with also some for the more wellrounded players

Omyn
04-07-2011, 05:32 AM
At the beginning of each game, one hero top and one hero bottom should check their respective sides of the river for the starting 0:00 rune. Depending on your lineup and the rune, it's quite possible to get Bloodlust. Think you need to edit this :poll:

Stvrmpanzer
06-22-2011, 05:06 PM
A very good guide. +1

Dragnmn
06-22-2011, 05:12 PM
Some things are either wrong or outdated though. For examples, towers can be denied when they are under 10% health, which is 135HP for tier 1 towers, but more for higher tier towers.

Decretium
07-31-2011, 09:27 AM
Now that we have more newbies here.. might as well bump this excellent guide.

Nobreakz
08-09-2011, 12:59 PM
Før close-by to 1500 Games, still wasnt all aware of all of this

Lunaped
08-10-2011, 04:00 PM
Thank you very much for the guide, but alas, I have a noob q that hopefully you or someone else would elaborate or clarify.

I'm a bit confused with the implications of saving your skill points until you need it. The example given really didn't resonate with me as I've not yet played Defiler, so it could of just went over my head.

As I'm trying to understand it, you want to avoid using your skill points until necessary as the situation of the game progresses, correct? At which point would you rather put a point in a skill or in the hero stats (as you've indicated in your example)?

Thanks in advanced!