HoN Werewolf V6 - Game Over

[Vahn]

Werewolf V6 - OT 3.0
This is the day time discussion thread for Werewolf, during the night I will be locking this thread. I'll send a PM reminder to everyone when each day commences.
For all the rules and Information about the game please refer to the sign-up thread (http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?t=258446)

In this game we are having a semi-closed set up, which means some possible combinations will be listed:

Combination 1
8 Saplings
1 Scout
1 Legionnaire
1 Imp
1 Madman
1 Succubus

Combination 2
8 Saplings
1 Scout
1 Witch Slayer
1 Imp
1 Madman
1 Succubus

Current Player List:

Bobble (Sapling) - Modkilled during day 4
devilesk (Witch Slayer)
Fetyukov (Succubus) - Lynched on day 3
Izual (Saping)
Lolzalot (Sapling) - Killed during night 2
MichaelBurge (Sapling) - Killed during night 3
Naib (Sapling) - Killed during night 3
SpaceSavage (Scout) - Killed during night 1
TheJoo (Sapling) - Killed during night 1
TheVendetta (Imp) - Lynched on day 2
YamaNeko (Sapling) - Lynched on day 1
YawningAngel (Madman) - Lynched on day 2
Yukari (Saping)


Votes

YawningAngel (3) - Devilesk, Izual, Yukari
Yukari (1) - YawningAngel

Players who haven't voted yet:

Remember to highlight your text in Lime when you are making your vote, day time ends when anyone has (N + 1) / 2 votes. N is number of remaining players.
Current votes required to end day: 3

Links

Day 1
Night 1
Day 2


Attention all players
No editing posts, if you posted any want to add something then double post. If you see spelling mistakes just leave them unless its so bad people won't understand what you said.

Attention dead players and people not participating
Strictly no posting at all, I do not wish for the game to be side tracked like it was several times last game.
Failure to follow will result in me deleting the post. If you continuously ignore this rule you will receive a spamming infraction.

Reminder to moderators
Please do not close/open the thread, post while it is locked or tamper with other players posts.
While in this thread please act as if you do not have moderation access.

[Vahn]

Day 1

ShadowExile and FrOzEn_sKill have been removed since they didn't respond to my message.

[Bobble]

Finally! Lets shoot this game through!

[MichaelBurge]

If I call a lynch on an arbitrary player, it seems as if I am Hellbourne or at the very least generates enemies. If I call a No Lynch, Legion loses one tempo. I take a third option:

Lynch: Chavo

[YamaNeko]

Since it's my first game, and I don't know anyone THAT well and don't want to accidently kill anyone that I shouldn't and I have no idea what's going on and I'll wait around before voting people to lynch.

I vote: No Lynch.

I'm an honest person in this game of deception. :O

[MichaelBurge]

Michael Burge requests that all "No Lynch" votes be changed to "Lynch Chavo" at the very minimum.

But he does not agree that the administrators of the game necessarily should alias "Lynch Chavo" to "No Lynch".

[Vahn]

Michael Burges request is denied.

[Izual]

Lynch MichaelBurger

Am I doing it right?

[Vahn]

better idea, any votes for anything other than a player or no lynch will be ignored.

[devilesk]

Sup guys

http://minecraftsandbox.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Sapling.png

Lynch YamaNeko

Then TheJoo and TheVendetta.

GG.

[Fetyukov]

The problem with Burge: I love him and his posts, but hate his influence over everyone. He totally polarises the game, inciting everyone to either lynch him or save him.

I won't get sucked up into Burgemania, probably not voting with or against him for a while unless there is good evidence to do so, other than "Blarg I hate Burge's ego"

Normally day 1 votes are stupid and we somehow lose Scout (or one scout anyways) but today maybe we'll get a bit of luck. So I'm voting for whomever I actually think is HB instead of some stupid random vote (Like spacesavage last game). As such, not voting until I have some more information.

Please, don't waste day1 on a stupid random vote, we can do so much better than that.

also Devalisk, wtf why those 3? Were they mean to you in school?

(ps thanks for the sig)

[MichaelBurge]

Gambit #1:

I hard-claim Hellbourne.

[Fetyukov]

Gambit #1:

I hard-claim Hellbourne.

http://imagemacros.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/oh_you.jpg

It's like you're trying to piss me off.

[MichaelBurge]

Gambit #2:

Vote: MichaelBurge

[MichaelBurge]

Michael Burge encourages all onlookers to "come at Him, bro", but cautions that "He'll fight you."

[Yukari]

why are you trying to top my randomness from game 3?

[Bobble]

God, I had to be in the game with Burgeykins. Lets stop with these gay gambits, and play normally.

[Yukari]

Ain't such thing as normal, bro

[Yukari]

Hm... it's unlike me to not hard or soft claim anything on the first day.

Claim: I am for sure, not 7 of the 8 saplings.

[Bobble]

Ain't such thing as normal, bro

When I say normal, I mean something not stupid like claim Hellbourne and vote for yourself. It doesn't help anyone.

[TheJoo]

For now, i will withhold my vote: i am one of the people who does not really care for a lynch or a no lynch on the first day. I think we do lose a day if we don't lynch someone on the first day, so it's pretty much worth lynching someone anyway.

But yes, will withhold my vote for now.

[YawningAngel]

Neither Burge nor Yukari seems worth lynching to me. Given this, I'll follow Fetyukov and TheJoo for now.

[MichaelBurge]

A Legion would see my gambit and think to himself "Oh, it is so transparently obvious that Michael Burge is bluffing. He even put Gambit #1 on the top." He would not give it a second thought.

But a Hellbourne would not ignore it; it is true they would not bandwagon and lynch me for fear of immediately all being rooted out, but they would stamp their feet and explicitly point out how *not* worth lynching I am.

According to Michael Burge's entirely subjective faculties(which nonetheless managed a perfect list on the first try of release in His first game), he accuses Bobble, YawningAngel, and TheJoo of not caring enough about his gambit.

Especially Bobble.

Lynch: Bobble

[MichaelBurge]

For comparison, note Hellbourne's nearly universal response(when they responded) in Game 3:

"Oh god, quit with the gambits. We hate them so much."

[MichaelBurge]

They almost entirely started a smear campaign on the methods used to obtain my list, on the idea of the gambits themselves, and even on my personal character as the game went on.

Legion were mostly relaxed upon seeing my gambits, though several were mildly annoyed.

[Yukari]

Inb4 scout dies day 1 btw, callin it.

[Naib]

michael is prob trying some extreme reverse psych or is just trolling.
so treating as forum noise for now

vote spacesavage

this vote more to get this tread in my history since going via mobile

[Yukari]

I'm having a little trouble understanding your last sentence there Naib

[MichaelBurge]

Oh I assure you Naib - I am quite serious about my gambits.

[MichaelBurge]

I'm having a little trouble understanding your last sentence there Naib

He wants to bookmark this site or such on his cell phone so he can check the thread while on the bus to work.

[Yukari]

Oh that makes sense.

[TheJoo]

Imo, so far, Burge has just posted entirely pointless and random stuff.

[MichaelBurge]

It's interesting that in response to being a mild consideration on my preliminary list, TheJoo conforms entirely to


[...] They almost entirely started a smear campaign on the methods used to obtain my list, on the idea of the gambits themselves, and even on my personal character as the game went on.[...]

Playing Hellbourne last game as well, I know how difficult it is to avoid this trap and empathize with you, TheJoo.

[MichaelBurge]

Compare NomesWisdom, ShadowExile, and Bobble in my first match.

[TheJoo]

I'm just stating my opinion, nothing else. If you want to interpret it as that, that is your choice. I just interpreted that your first few posts are random and uninformative.

[Lolzalot]

So far it's only been pointless posts about gambits from Burge, and people already getting annoyed. I'll go with the flow and withhold my vote as well.

[Yukari]

Vote: Lolzalot
Scumslip sup

[MichaelBurge]

So far it's only been pointless posts about gambits from Burge, and people already getting annoyed. I'll go with the flow and withhold my vote as well.

Did you even read my posts?


Lynch: Lolzalot

[Yukari]

Unvote: Lolzalot

Now burge, care to explain your rational for lynching lolz? I'm quite certain that you are approaching this from a different angle than I am, but your gamits do seem rather pointless and your post just seems like a generic scummy bandwagon. I'll take you up on your offer and I'll come fight you

[MichaelBurge]

Lolzalot was doing the exact same thing that I accused TheJoo and Bobble of doing. He contributed no additional information beyond what I already rebutted.

It's one thing for TheJoo to have the opinion that my gambits are pointless; it's another thing for Lolzalot to repeat the same point 3 others already had without any additional input when I already responded to it.

Indeed, my gambits *are* pointless to Legion players. Legion would ignore my gambit out of confusion; while Hellbourne ignores it out of fear. Each has a difference in posting style, which I had hoped to extract.

[TheVendetta]

After playing a few of these games in my lifetime I have yet to ever see a first round vote that ever resulted in actually being useful. I'll continue to observe but as of now my vote is No lynch . But since I love controversy I'm probably going to end up changing that rather shortly.

[Yukari]

Very similar to my own thoughts, but something about your playstyle is still quite off. Take for example your gambit.

A legion player would shrug it off in ignorance
A hellbourn player would ignore it out of fear

In either case, it is ignored, and it seems like you are pulling excuses to lynch whomever jumps out at you.

In game 3, you only created gambits because you were sure of your information and deduction. In game 4, you did the exact opposite of being confident and lead lynches which resulted in your blood affiliation being made known.

In order correct your mistake in game 4, you are now making pointless gambits and drawing conclusions from gambits so ambiguous, that it would be impossible to not be able to somehow link a random post to fit your "plan." You're like a conspiracy theorist. The legion Michael Burge would simply sit back, and analyse posts before making a huge revelation, or a gambit that makes at least some sense. You are definately improving at hiding your :bloo::bloo::bloo::bloo::bloo::bloo: though.

[MichaelBurge]

Vote: Yukari

The entire point of my 'pointless' gambits is to extract information. You're an intelligent one, Yukari; you wouldn't misread my prior post so easily. I don't mean to get TheJoo or Bobble lynched right away with my vote; I mean to get them talking to discern fear or confusion. The votes aren't what matters; it's the style of posting.

Again with the wild personal attacks on my character. This is exactly what Hellbourne did the first time I played; I declare a standing vote on you until further notice.

[Yukari]

So you are doing exactly what I accused you of. Voting a lynch on anyone that attacks you or your useless gambits. You know what though, I'll fight fire with fire.

Vote: MichaelBurge

We'll fight till one of us (you) scumslips (even more.) I'll post more later, need to drive somewhere right now.

P.S. nice generalizations, though you know very well that every single one of your generalizations so far are applicable to both legion and HB, yet you are using them as an argument for HB. What a dirty tactic.

P.P.S. I have no reason to keep any obvious HB alive for longer than the day that they are discovered. I'm not holding back any votes this round.

[SpaceSavage]

I shall also vote to Lynch: No Vote

Blind lynches are silly

[MichaelBurge]

Cracking up under pressure, aren't we? Compare the posting style of NomesWisdom in my first game when the heat started up. This post in particular is so juicy:


Your accomplishments are nothing but self perpetuated drivel unto a community of self-loathing sheep. You control people with assertiveness in the HoN Forums world just as you attempt now to control the Town with assertiveness in the Hon Werewolf world.

You've already noted the contingency of this town being unable to think for itself, and you prey on that, you rely on it. The only thing that feeds you is the praise of sheep, and your accomplishments are so short-listed that you really are comparable to a god. Only fools worship gods, just like only fools worship you.

Your facade of wisdom is a perfect tool on those who are weak. But know I'm not so gullible, and can see through this thinly veiled confidence from a player who gets thrown on support to make room for the real players. You insult me for even thinking I'd take up your offer.

For a man with so many accomplishments, you sure have a high need for pampering of the ones you can list. You assume I care more for your name than this game. Take note of this - I care more about this game than a stake in your name, consider this an insult to your intelligence and your name.


I'm seeing posts much more mild than this; but the Hellbourne are starting to crack under pressure.

You can't control yourselves - stay quiet and maybe you'll escape the Purging Flame of Michael Burge.

[MichaelBurge]

In Michael Burge's mind, every affront to his gambits or his personal character is a soft-claim to Hellbourne.

[MichaelBurge]

I shall also vote to Lynch: No Vote

Blind lynches are silly

How lusciously devoid of any legitimate content, bandwagoning onto everyone else's decision.

Scumbag.

[TheJoo]

With Yukari & Burge fighting each other, i don't see where to vote.

Yukari is practically the only one who can start a vote on Burge, while Burge is practically the only one who can start a vote on Yukari, unless they make a bad post (what isn't going to happen, knowing the experience of both players.) In V4, everyone knew that you could only vote NomesWisdom off with strong information proving that he was Hellbourne. Why? because he easily influences games and has the best thought process out of all of the players. That is likely why ShadowExile originally voted me for no reason, but then said he would continue voting me after NomesWisdom thought i was HB.

It's the same here with Burge & Yukari. No one votes them because they have so much influence, and on the Legion side, will cause games to be won. But when one votes the other, It means nothing like it would be if i voted Burge, because Yukari & Burge are always almost impossible to tell if they are hellbourne or legion, they play like they are neither.

I therefore vote No Lynch.

[TheVendetta]

It's hard as a new player to realize the faults in some of these posts since we don't know the history of the playstyles of each player. But I have come to the conclusion that it is probably wise to allow Burge and Yukari battle it out against each other until one of them makes an obvious mistake. Their influence seems to be matched by no other, and with that my vote remains the same.

[Naib]

i dont know what is more entertaining, being away on holiday doing holiday things OR getting back in mobile connection to check this thread :D:D

sticking with my day1 lynch just because nothing else to go on atm

[Fetyukov]

It's like the FSM fighting Chuck Norris, I don't know who to vote for. I honestly don't think we should eliminate either this early, but if they are insistent on a battle-to-the-death, I honestly think Burge is Legion. Gambits like that, while annoying, are never useless or "random". If he wanted to 'blind' us with a bunch of useless information it would be easy for him, but because of what he's said we've gotten a lot better d1 reads on many, many people, rather than the confusion a HB member would want.

Now I respect Yukari, I know he's a good player and I'm also inclined to believe he's Legion, but I don't really have much to back that up. Call it a last minute prediction, but I bet they're both Legion, and one of them is a PR (scout maybe? that would be hilariously tragic to happen again).

However, if it came down to a Yukari-or-Burge vote, I would lynch Yukari. He's a good player, he could be a good player for both teams. I'm just more inclined to think that Burge is Legion from what he's posted.

Currently I'm not liking Spacesavage's post, it was really, really useless. Like, beyond useless. He even said lynch: no vote instead of vote: no lynch.

I'm unsure of TheJoo and Bobble, so I won't be agreeing with Burge on those votes yet.

So in the mean time, vote spacesavage until I believe he's actually read the thread and posts something useful.

Lastly, as a final note and reiteration of what I said, I do not want to vote Yukari or MichaelBurge, but if it really does come down to a one-or-the-other situation I am currently more willing to believe that Burge is Legion.

[TheJoo]

In V4, Nomes correctly found me as Hellbourne on the first day, and i was playing very similar to TheVendetta.

I am inclined to vote TheVendetta if a No Lynch vote will not be passed.

[SpaceSavage]

Ok then since people want me to respond, all I was saying is that first day lynches can go wrong. With the current fight between yukari and burge we should keep our eyes on it. I currently believe Yukari may be HB with his jumping on burge and acting as aggressive has he is.


The legion Michael Burge would simply sit back, and analyse posts before making a huge revelationThis was less due to his role in the game but rather acting on criticism from the last game.

This leads me to believe that Yukari may be hellbourne, however as we cannot be 100% sure without a scout report we should all sit and wait to see what the night brings.

@ Fetyukov not responding does not equal not reading the thread. I am led to believe you are showing yourself up as a hellbourne player as a legion player would not send out such a ridiculous lynch vote for that reasoning.

[Lolzalot]

I'll join the bandwagon and vote No lynch for now. I'll happily change vote if someone comes with some useful information.

[Fetyukov]

Ok then since people want me to respond, all I was saying is that first day lynches can go wrong. With the current fight between yukari and burge we should keep our eyes on it. I currently believe Yukari may be HB with his jumping on burge and acting as aggressive has he is.

Yes, first day lynchs can go wrong. In fact, it'll likely go wrong. Information gathering is more important at this point, it's better to lynch someone and have a bunch of information from many people than a no-lynch where we know nothing.


This leads me to believe that Yukari may be hellbourne, however as we cannot be 100% sure without a scout report we should all sit and wait to see what the night brings.

Probably won't get a Scout report, no Jera, and I don't think 50% chance of have Lego is good protection. All the night will bring is dead people, and dead people don't talk and give information.


@ Fetyukov not responding does not equal not reading the thread. I am led to believe you are showing yourself up as a hellbourne player as a legion player would not send out such a ridiculous lynch vote for that reasoning.

I got the impression that you didn't read the thread after you didn't make any responses to anything anyone had said, despite there being a lot going on. Plenty was said, to which you replied "meh, this is stupid. nolynch" which to me is not constructive but destructive. If the thread hits 10 pages on day 1 then we will have plenty of information and I'll seriously consider a nolynch. In the mean-time, lynching is a better option.

Also, please don't confuse "grilling" with "convicting". I wouldn't join a bandwagon against you at this time, because I don't have enough of a read on you. Now that you've responded I have a greater read on you, more of that information I so crave in this game. If I feel my vote is useful elsewhere (or harmful on you) I will switch it.

[Yukari]

A few posts more than I expected, nevertheless Burge, that is a **** argument and you know it. Going down this road, you're eventually going to link my posting style to Hitler's propaganda; I don't even see how you link my post to an ad ad hominem attack from Rogerdoger. Perhaps it is YOU who is cracking under the pressure, because you fail to find any actual reasonable let alone plausible counter arguments.

tl;dr your last post just says "you sound like roger from game 3, stop talking" without offering anything noteworthy.

[MichaelBurge]

Yukari: I understand your skepticism about my information gathering style; the rest of the Legion team in said game doubted me as well(and look where they ended up).

But don't you think there are bigger fish to fry at the moment? While we were arguing, the Hellbourne team collectively cooked a bag of popcorn and were munching it smiling so happily. There haven't been any bandwagons or follow-up - just empty nonsense "No Lynch"'s, and quite honestly it scares me that you might be Legion now.

SpaceSavage in particular overreacted far too much for a single one-line comment in a single post from Fretyukov. In particular, he has a contradiction here:


I am led to believe you are showing yourself up as a hellbourne player as a legion player would not send out such a ridiculous lynch vote for that reasoning.

Not only did *I* do the jumping here, he's quite content to sit back eating his popcorn getting us to kill each other. He's giddy like a little schoolgirl with some form of power, and I say we kill him. He's an absolute scumbag, and while I'm not necessarily convinced you're Legion I think we can hold a 1-round armistice until tomorrow.

Tomorrow we fight; today, we are brothers.

Vote: SpaceSavage

[MichaelBurge]

[...] we should all sit and wait to see what the night brings. [...]

Yeah, of course you'd want to "wait to see what the night brings." Enjoy your popcorn, trash.

[Yukari]

Yukari: I understand your skepticism about my information gathering style; the rest of the Legion team in said game doubted me as well(and look where they ended up).

But don't you think there are bigger fish to fry at the moment? While we were arguing, the Hellbourne team collectively cooked a bag of popcorn and were munching it smiling so happily. There haven't been any bandwagons or follow-up - just empty nonsense "No Lynch"'s, and quite honestly it scares me that you might be Legion now.

SpaceSavage in particular overreacted far too much for a single one-line comment in a single post from Fretyukov. In particular, he has a contradiction here:



Not only did *I* do the jumping here, he's quite content to sit back eating his popcorn getting us to kill each other. He's giddy like a little schoolgirl with some form of power, and I say we kill him. He's an absolute scumbag, and while I'm not necessarily convinced you're Legion I think we can hold a 1-round armistice until tomorrow.

Tomorrow we fight; today, we are brothers.

Vote: SpaceSavage

I was actually going to attempt to nail savage after I was done with you. I have no problem with a simple shift in priority though. If he turns legion, I'm going to kill you.

Vote: SpaceSavage

[YawningAngel]

I'm more than happy to kill SpaceSavage. He hasn't been too good this game, he was flakey last game, and it will let our scoot do some werk.

[Yukari]

Inb4 spacesavage is scout

[YawningAngel]

Honestly, we could be a team of Jeraziahs and vote no-lynch and we'd still lose a Scout first day.

[SpaceSavage]

So basically no matter which way i go people vote for me, nice. Anyway yes, a vote to lynch me would hurt the legion team.

OK since your trying to lynch me I shall do what i didnt want to do Tukari was right, i hard claim scout and i WILL prove it. In the night i will run a search on Fetyukov. I think its worth your time to wait one night, see what happens. If you are not satisfied lynch me. May legionnaire provide me with defence :)

[YawningAngel]

Oh for ****'s sake.

[TheJoo]

How do you know there is a legionnaire? if you're scout, you would not know this, there is either witch slayer or legionnaire.

Vote:SpaceSavage

[YawningAngel]

You'd better hope we have Legionnaire.

[TheJoo]

Playing like that, he's either the world's most idiotic Legionnaire/Scout or Hellbourne.

[SpaceSavage]

Its a huge mistake going for me right now as a member of the legion. However for hellbourne it is advantageous to try and get me lynched right now. Last game it was a dumb call however i will bring proof in the night. Those who are going to keep pushing for me may well be hellbourne and i would be cautious about them.

[TheJoo]

Plus he edited his post. Nice.

If he is scout, he will die tonight/there is a chance legionnaire will save him (if he is there.) Taking this into account, the hellbourne will have a 75% chance of killing him tomorrow (50% witch, he's dead anyway, 50% legionnaire, 50% chance he will survive.) But he seems more like a hellbourne who has chucked himself into a hole, so i will keep my vote how it is.

[SpaceSavage]

it seems i am hellbourne??! i am bringing proof in the way of a scout report in the morning. TheJoo unless you are truly HB removing your scout is the stupidest thing to do right now.

I am changing my vote lynch to Thejoo

[Fetyukov]

This man is an idiot.

Hard claim scout.

Without Jeraziah.

With Succubus.

GL with that report.

Congrats. I wasn't sold on voting you before, but the Scout claim verifies it.

[TheJoo]

I notice that i was slightly wrong in the fact that if legionnaire is around, he definitley won't die tonight, but legionnaire possibly will (read the role desc wrong.)

You would lynch me after i said that if you were Hellbourne or Legion. your vote means nothing.

[SpaceSavage]

@Fetyukov (http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/member.php?u=1449554) (http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/member.php?u=122233)I believe you are just scared against the report which may come through in the night.

[TheJoo]

You said you were going to scout Fetyukov!
my god, can someone put this guy out of his misery?

[TheJoo]

So now, he edits his post to say @Fetyukov.
oh
my
god.

[Fetyukov]

I believe you are just scared against the report which may come through in the night.

Yup, I'm totally afraid of the report that won't arrive. There is a succubus on the hellbourne team, you won't be able to get your report. If you're our real Scout you've made yourself useless. Awesome. Just great.

[SpaceSavage]

yes which is why i am now apparently "sold" to be hellbourne to him

[YawningAngel]

Unvote SpaceSavage

I need to think this over.

[MichaelBurge]

SpaceSavage hard-claimed Jeraziah last game in a desperate attempt to last another round. Go read "The Boy who Cried Wolf", SS.

Vote: SpaceSavage

[TheJoo]

Burge, why did you vote savage twice.. lol.

[MichaelBurge]

Unvote SpaceSavage

I need to think this over.

The most he could do is distract the other team's Succubus for one round - the first round when even they don't know what he is.

[Yukari]

On one hand I just want to kill him for making the same stupid move as last game, on the other I want to see scout die first day to continue the tradition

[Bobble]

Oh god, Savage is hard-claiming another power role, again? This is absolute bullshit

Vote: SpaceSavage

[Izual]

Lynch MichaelBurger

Am I doing it right?

My vote was overlooked...

[MichaelBurge]

Bobble and TheJoo honestly look much more suspicious than even SpaceSavage. I'll grant that SpaceSavage is a douchebag and am perfectly willing to lynch him because of it, but I propose the following to verify whether he is Scout or not:

Considering that we have several people here who have played Scout before, why don't we have SpaceSavage post his PM from Vahn on the forums? Vahn tends to use the same format from game-to-game, but SpaceSavage hasn't played anything but Sapling if I recall correctly.

Chances are overwhelming that SpaceSavage will make at least one mistake in his post if he's lying. Yukari in particular can catch said mistake and we can continue drilling him without worry.

[Fetyukov]

That's... quite ingenious actually. Sounds like it would be against the rules however.

[MichaelBurge]

No posting screenshots of your role in PMs, this is for obvious reasons.

As Hellborne, there are absolutely no rules on what you can post (while alive).

Screenshots are forbidden, and Hellbourne have no rules on what they post.

If Vahn tells me that SpaceSavage cannot post a verbatim non-screenshot quote of his PM, then it follows that SpaceSavage is Legion(Hellbourne have "absolutely no rules"). If Vahn says it is legal, then we can't deduce anything until SpaceSavage posts.

[TheJoo]

If you notice, he edited his "I am scout" post, and I am fairly sure he edited his post that begins @fetyukov, with the original post being directed at me, which he then edited after I acussed him.
I know that this sounds odd, since his post does not say it was edited, but I wouldn't say that if I didn't think it was true. Can a moderator check if he did edit that post? I'm wondering if it was just a bug what made it not appear as edited.

[Octavia]

That's... quite ingenious actually. Sounds like it would be against the rules however.
It's definitely against the rules.

[Vahn]

My vote was overlooked...
That would be because you mis-spelt the name, counted the vote as on michaelburge.

Screenshots are forbidden, and Hellbourne have no rules on what they post.

If Vahn tells me that SpaceSavage cannot post a verbatim non-screenshot quote of his PM, then it follows that SpaceSavage is Legion(Hellbourne have "absolutely no rules"). If Vahn says it is legal, then we can't deduce anything until SpaceSavage posts.
Hellbourne do have to follow the no screen shot rules.

If you notice, he edited his "I am scout" post, and I am fairly sure he edited his post that begins @fetyukov, with the original post being directed at me, which he then edited after I acussed him.
I know that this sounds odd, since his post does not say it was edited, but I wouldn't say that if I didn't think it was true. Can a moderator check if he did edit that post? I'm wondering if it was just a bug what made it not appear as edited.

If the posted is edited within like 10 - 20 seconds of being posted it doesn't record the edit as an edit, some silly vBulletin limit or something.

[YawningAngel]

If he IS Scout, we might as well let him live so Succubus can't mez another power role.

[TheJoo]

From what Yawning is saying, if SpaceSavage is Hellbourne it would seem like Yawning is too. I don't believe that though, since Yawning would be taking a huge gamble to take the stance he has taken if he's Hellbourne. Taking this into mind, I find that killing SpaceSavage would prove Yawning's allegiance, so I find even if SpaceSavage is Legion we still gain information about yawning.

[Yukari]

I think to reassess the situation. I'm actually quite lost of what to do right now...

[YawningAngel]

The question is whether or not the Hellbourne are going to BELIEVE he's Scout: If they will, we can safely leave him alive, if not then WIFOM to the max.

[YawningAngel]

I'm not inclined to believe he IS Scout though, because a true Scout would rather defend himself without outing himself as Scout, lacking as we do any protection. Legionnaire can't claim if we have one, so we won't know until tomorrow, and no other potential defender exists. If Savage is useful to us, it's as a Sapling.

Ask yourself: if I were Hellbourne, would I bother to Mez/Devour/Stalk/whatever him?

[MichaelBurge]

Hellbourne do have to follow the no screen shot rules.

Not a screenshot; just a text copy of the message.

[Vahn]

Well either team "could" do that, as a text copy it could easily be edited thus you'd have no way to know if it was true or not.

[MichaelBurge]

Well either team "could" do that, as a text copy it could easily be edited thus you'd have no way to know if it was true or not.

So it's legal.

SpaceSavage, post your PM in text form verbatim.

[SpaceSavage]

Hello Werewolf player,
The game of Werewolf has begun! You can find the discussion thread here: http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/sh...d.php?t=260647 (http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?t=260647)

You have been given the role of Scout, You can find out what you are able to do as a Scout on the sign up thread: http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/sh...d.php?t=258446 (http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?t=258446).
Sometime during each night please PM me who you wish to use your ability on, if you do not message me you will not use the ability that night.

As a member of the Legion it is your job to seek out the hellbourne and lynch them during the day.
Please be an active participant in the game to make this is as enjoyable as possible for everyone involved.

there you go, it was lynch or death anyway

[SpaceSavage]

So yes, hellbourne players feel free to keep attempting to lynch me you will be found out.

[YawningAngel]

How the hell do we evaluate this? Lego/WS can't comment on whether the ability-use-parts are the same because they need to remain anonymous.

[Fetyukov]

Just sayin', this is different from KotF that I got last game.


Hello Werewolf player,

The game of Werewolf has begun! You can find the discussion thread here: http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/sh...d.php?t=249525
You have been given the role of Keeper of the Forest, You can find out what you are able to do as the Keeper of the Forest on the sign up thread: http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/sh...d.php?t=249047

As a member of the Legion it is your job to seek out the hellbourne and lynch them during the day.
Please be an active participant in the game to make this is as enjoyable as possible for everyone involved.

I dunno if that means anything tho, vahn could have changed it, or it could be different for Scout.

[Fetyukov]

Consider this a ninja edit

unvote spacesavage

It does look legit enough that I don't want anyone to drop the hammer right now.

[TheJoo]

I will unvote , then.

For the sake of it, i will post my Hellbourne PM from Game 3.



Hello Werewolf player,

The game of Werewolf has begun! You can find the discussion thread here: http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/sh...d.php?t=251352 (http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?t=251352)
You are a member of the hellbourne and can find your role on the quick topic (http://www.quicktopic.com/46/H/w824esfraNmS) thread, you can view what your role does on the sign up thread (http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?t=249047).

As a member of the Hellboune it is your job to deceive the Legion and turn them against each other in order to outnumber them.
The quick topic thread linked above is going to be used for night time discussion, it has the who is hellbourne and what everyones roles are, you will be unable to post on this during the day time. Remember to work together towards winning the game.
Please be an active participant in the game to make this is as enjoyable as possible for everyone involved.


Very different to the legion one.

Could someone else post their scout one from a previous game?

[TheJoo]

I meant game 4, sorry.

[Lolzalot]

I'll join the bandwagon again and un-vote no lynch, and vote Spacesavage

[TheJoo]

Err.. have you even been reading the posts, lolzalot?
I'm going to take it that you didn't read the 6th page, and that you've written that by accident. But you're looking pretty odd right now.

Just wanted to say we have the worst scout i have ever seen. So instead of a dead scout, we have a scout with downs that dies 50% of the time.

[SpaceSavage]

OR hes hellbourne ^^

however unvote TheJoo

Vote YawningAngel

I trust Joo for now and the vote is token tbh subject to change

[TheVendetta]

Still one day one are we? This is why I always hate the first day, sure I could vote SpaceSavage and speed up the process, which is what I normally do when people hard claim roles, but he could just be doing it out of desperation because he doesn't know how else to defend himself when he's innocent.

But, I do find it quite odd how Lolz just randomly came back in and decided to vote Space, trying to end the day asap without even attempting to give a reason why...? Hmm..with that I'll have to unvote no lynch and vote Lolzalot.

[MichaelBurge]

I'll join the bandwagon again and un-vote no lynch, and vote Spacesavage

Again, enjoy your popcorn. Vote: Lolzalot

Scumbag.

[Lolzalot]

Again, enjoy your popcorn. Vote: Lolzalot

Scumbag.

It's funny how you jump at every opportunity of lynching me, seems scummy.

un-vote SpaceSavage

Vote MichaelBurge

[Lolzalot]

Oh, I only joined the bandwagon with lynching SpaceSavage because of his lacking performance in game 4, where he hard claims Jereziah, and played that round like an idiot. He's trying to do the same here.

[MichaelBurge]

Jackpot: Grilling successful. Not even sure I need to respond to this, though I will if necessary.

Let it be known that Michael Burge carried the Legion to victory this day. Tomorrow, Yukari is on my hitlist for sure, though.

[Fetyukov]

Go ahead Brurge, show us the path of light. What did he say in 112 and 113 that's so incriminating? All I see is overreacting.

[TheJoo]

I don't really think that Lolzalot is Hellbourne, but i've already stated that voting Burge or Yukari this early in the game with little information isn't going to work. I've stated that they're too influential, so no one is going to vote them off without good reason. This is why i think Lolzalot isn't actually Hellbourne. It is a possibility, but i don't think he is so stupid to literally say he is bandwagon everything as a hellbourne, even stating that he is bandwagoning. Is a Hellbourne really stupid enough to do this? in this setup, if they wanted Burge or Yukari dead, they would just wait until night time.

I am going to vote The Vendetta, for the reason i previously stated. He's playing too much like i was in Game 4. He firstly jumps on Lolzalot, after his previous posts were only agreements, nothing added to the conversation. This jump on Lolzalot was going to happen, what seems like Lolz's post was a mistake (like i suggested) or a trap, like Lolzalot seems to be suggesting. Lolzalot, being new to these games, should know jumping on Burge is stupid. Burge is random, and can do whatever he wants with little accusation, until later on in the game. It would have made more sense for Lolzalot to jump on The Vendetta, if this was a trap, seeing that Vendetta has acted more like a Hellbourne.

I am quite reluctant to vote Lolzalot at this stage. I really don't think that any Hellbourne player would act like this.

[TheJoo]

Okay, i have now just read Lolzalot's post (#113) (i started writing my previous one before he posted it)



He's trying to do the same here.

Nail in the coffin. The scout quote is most likely proof that he is scout.
The thing is Lolzalot, you have said something that everyone already knew, as your only reason.

I now unvote and Vote Lolzalot.
My vote tomorrow will be TheVendetta, unless someone else becomes more scummy.

[SpaceSavage]

unvote YawningAngel

Vote Lolzalot

Too fishy didnt see his post

[Lolzalot]

Okay, i have now just read Lolzalot's post (#113) (i started writing my previous one before he posted it)


Nail in the coffin. The scout quote is most likely proof that he is scout.
The thing is Lolzalot, you have said something that everyone already knew, as your only reason.

I now unvote and Vote Lolzalot.
My vote tomorrow will be TheVendetta, unless someone else becomes more scummy.


Sigh...

First I'm legion, and then I'm hellbourne, cause I said something that's already been said? What about people repeating Burges gambits? I'm not trying to point fingers at anyone. I firmly believe you're legion Joo. But you're looking at this from the wrong angle. I'm unvoting till more information pops up. (And yes going head to head vs Burge is stupid, but I fight fire with fire.)

[Yukari]

Throwin mine out there too while I read up on what I've missed



Hello Werewolf player,

The game of Werewolf has begun! You can find the discussion thread here: http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/sh...d.php?t=249525
You have been given the role of Scout, You can find out what you are able to do as the Scout on the sign up thread: http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/sh...d.php?t=249047

As a member of the Legion it is your job to seek out the hellbourne and lynch them during the day.
Please be an active participant in the game to make this is as enjoyable as possible for everyone involved.

[SpaceSavage]

nice counter claim, that wont work. You have just flagged yourself up as hellbourne

[SpaceSavage]

burge you were correct. Now is Yukari suiciding trying to save a team mate with a stronger power?!

[TheJoo]

I told you SpaceSavage had downs.

He posted his scout message for a previous game, you idiot.

Lolzalot, i only think you're the most Hellbourne now since he gave some pretty solid proof of being scout, and the only thing you said as your reason for voting him was something everyone already knew. Not a strong enough reason.

[Fetyukov]

that was his Scout PM from v4... also different from your current one.

*grabs popcorn, waits for Burge and Yukari*

[MichaelBurge]

My comment on how he's "eating popcorn" is a reference to how he idly sits by repeating one-liners so nobody notices him, but the moment somebody says even the slightest thing about him he immediately counter-votes in fear.

I've been grilling people all game. A Legion would not be scared, because he sees I'm doing the same to everyone else. But a Hellbourne has an immediate fear reflex against votes; they're very defensive. You'll notice many other players I'd now consider Legion passed off my "gambit" as a terrible idea and essentially ignored it.

But the people I suspect try to defend against it.

[MichaelBurge]

SpaceSavage is an idiot, I agree. Don't consider him an equal, treating him like you would your teammates. Just look at his 'Jeraziah' last game; you can't treat your dog like a person.

[MichaelBurge]

Recall my previous post regarding Lolzalot


Did you even read my posts?


Lynch: Lolzalot

He doesn't even read the discussion, nobody likes him; what point is there to keeping him around? He just wants the day to end so he can talk with his Hellbourne bloodbuddies( :bloo: :bloo: :bloo: :bloo: :bloo: :bloo: :bloo: :bloo: :bloo: :bloo: :bloo: :bloo: :bloo: :bloo:) and get a plan going. No wonder he's bored from day 1.

[Fetyukov]

I know I said earlier I wouldn't simply go along with Brurge, but I agree, he's not even in this.

lynch lolzalot

[YawningAngel]

All we know of Lolzalot is that he isn't very good at Werewolf: I simply don't think he merits a lynch simply on the strength of that. For the time being, I suggest we unvote him to prevent a quick Hellbourne hammer and let things play out a little further.

[Fetyukov]

Yes YA, let's leave in the people who aren't good so that when the HB kills off all the good people we can win with the bads.

If anybody has any better proof of someone being HB I'll gladly switch over, but for now lynching someone who is either scum or bad sounds rather appealing.

[SpaceSavage]

Yawning.. are you trying to defend a team mate? :scou:

[YawningAngel]

Why lynch morons when we could not lynch anyone? The victory criteria don't care how good a player is.

[Fetyukov]

That's a fair point, are you suggesting a nolynch?

[TheVendetta]

Well if Lolzalot really is just that bad at the game then I might have to reconsider withdrawing my vote and going back to the no lynch. But to do that I'd have to take your word for it since I have never seen him play. I can't do that just yet though.

[MichaelBurge]

Michael Burge accuses YawningAngel of being Hellbourne; this is not a grill. I repeat, this is not a grill.

Michael Burge stakes his name on either Lolzalot or YawningAngel being Hellbourne; likely both. Doubt me if you will, but I refuse to take my vote off.

[YawningAngel]

That's a fair point, are you suggesting a nolynch?
The optimal Legion tactic is to perpetuate the day until we get a sure lynch, and then act on it. If we're unable or unwilling to do this then a no-lynch is preferable to a useless one. So yes, if we can't come up with a good lynch, then no-lynch.

[YawningAngel]

In response to Burge's post: I am not going to hammer Lolz to "prove" my innocence. This is stupid, and the fact I'm telling you as much doesn't make me scum.

[MichaelBurge]

The optimal Legion tactic is to perpetuate the day until we get a sure lynch, and then act on it. If we're unable or unwilling to do this then a no-lynch is preferable to a useless one. So yes, if we can't come up with a good lynch, then no-lynch.

Hellbourne also acts as a source of confusion, delaying "sure lynches" so you can "gather more information to be sure."

[YawningAngel]

Obviously, regardless of my affiliation I'd rather you lynch Lolzalot than me. However, I'd rather we didn't do either.

[YawningAngel]

Is it being suggested that I'm HB merely because I'm defending Lolzalot? Because frankly, a Legion player has just as much reason to.

[devilesk]

You guys should have lynched YamaNeko. Anyway let's get this day over with.

Lynch SpaceSavage

[MichaelBurge]

I suspected you in my original post as well, if you'll recall.

[MichaelBurge]

You guys should have lynched YamaNeko. Anyway let's get this day over with.

Lynch SpaceSavage

Did you even read the thread?

[devilesk]

Did you even read the thread?
Nope.

[MichaelBurge]

Lolzalot's the current bandwagon, rather than SS. Just keeping you updated.

[devilesk]

Okay.

Lynch Lolzalot

[Yukari]

Call off the bandwagon, lolz isn't worth it

[MichaelBurge]

Yukari has more information? Standing guns down for further notice.

Vote cancelled

[MichaelBurge]

You must admit Lolzalot is rather suspicious. Why shouldn't we lynch him? He doesn't read the thread, he makes the stupidest comments, and he's not even honest like Devilesk when he does it.

[Yukari]

Expect a longer post within the hour

[YawningAngel]

You must admit Lolzalot is rather suspicious. Why shouldn't we lynch him? He doesn't read the thread, he makes the stupidest comments, and he's not even honest like Devilesk when he does it.
I can explain this all with four words

HE IS A MORON

He doesn't know what he's doing or how to play this game. An actual competent Hellbourne wouldn't do this either.

[Yukari]

I can explain this all with four words

HE IS A MORON

He doesn't know what he's doing or how to play this game. An actual competent Hellbourne wouldn't do this either.

You just pretty much summarized what I was going to write in 3 sentences, the other thing I was going to say is: It is more likely that most if not all of the HB has not openly opposed Burge yet, and it is also a really safe bet that SS is actually scout. We might as well keep them, not because they offer anything intellectual insight, but rather we should just use them as meat shields. I can elaborate more, just remind me when I wake up tomorrow

[Fetyukov]

unvote, vote nolynch

I said earlier if we had enough information and 10 pages I would go for a nolynch.

I think we have enough after 8.

At this point I don't see anybody worth lynching, no "sure bets". Day2 promises to be interesting.

[MichaelBurge]

Hold up - run a search in this thread for Yamaneko. He immediately starts of the day claiming he's new, voting "No Lynch"(which is not a safe move, contrary to popular opinion), and hasn't posted a single thing since.

Can we lynch an inactive who's going to make it difficult in the future?

[MichaelBurge]

Just to butter it up, Vote: YamaNeko

[MichaelBurge]

If anyone's munching popcorn while giggling at the Legion fighting each other, it's YamaNeko.

[Fetyukov]

He'll simply get replaced if he doesn't PM vahn in the night, you should know that Brurge. Wait for day2, nolynch today.

[MichaelBurge]

Yes - but after fighting with all these people and not getting much I'm thinking that the quiet ones are Hellbourne.

I'm not lynching him because he's inactive and boring to play with; I'm lynching him because I suspect him to be intentionally quiet. This is why I refer to such people as "popcorn munchers."

[Fetyukov]

But if you wait for tomorrow he will either be

a) replaced
b) not replaced

If B, then he's munching on that popcorn. If A, he could be either. Isn't that worth waiting for?

[MichaelBurge]

I don't like not lynching. Everyone in this thread who says with a quiet demeanor to "not lynch until we get more information" and then votes "no lynch" is on my suspicious list. If they were truly careful, they wouldn't vote at all compared with giving the Hellbourne an extra tempo.

Your argument is different since we do have 9 pages of information, but I'm skeptical regardless.

[Fetyukov]

Don't get my wrong yamaneko (or whatever his name is) is a decent suspect, but just waiting a night would prove which kind of inactive he is.

I think we should just wait and see what the others think between these two options.

[MichaelBurge]

Hmmm, a post or two was deleted. Yet the 'infracting' PM remains.

[Fetyukov]

I imagine those were roger's posts on the topic.

[MichaelBurge]

Ah, yes. That makes sense. I expect a clarification soon, then.

[Vahn]

Nomes isn't in this game hence his posts and the ones quoting them were removed.

[devilesk]

oh look NOW YOU DECIDE TO VOTE YAMANEKO WHEN HE WAS THE ONE I WANTED TO LYNCH AT THE START. ZZZZZZZZZZZ

Lynch YamaNeko

[YamaNeko]

I am a purposeful inactive. I will give you the two cases:

If I am Legion, then it can be the case that since I am new to this game, I do not know anyone in this game that well to make an intelligent read or comment. I am not the type of person to just blindly lynch players without being certain or with convincing enough evidence to support it.

If I am Hellbourne, then it can possibly be the case that my hypothetical case of me being Legion is a complete fabrication. However, given that because I am writing this post, it would put me at even more suspect to be Hellbourne, since I have read posts that the curiosity of me being quiet and inactive is leaving me in a safer position than me making this very post. So if I were Hellbourne, wouldn't it be wiser for me to let people duke it out and let people think I am one of those "popcorn munchers"/"inactives"?

Thus, the next two cases:
If you believe my words that I am an honest person, then you should be inclined to think that I am Legion because me making this post as Hellbourne would put me at a disadvantage.
If you don't believe my words, then you would be inclined to think I am Hellbourne because I am just simply being deceptive by making this post making you think that I am Legion, while I am truly Hellbourne.

So, where did this post leave you guys? Hopefully back at square one, unless I made a flaw somewhere, which I don't believe I did, however, regardless if I am Hellbourne or Legion, I still do not like to jump the gun on lynch votes, thus I still keep my vote as No Lynch. Which supports the fact that I am telling the truth and thus Legion, or perhaps I am following the logic of Burge that a vote to no lynch will give the Hellbourne an advantage on the Legion as a Hellbourne.

[MichaelBurge]

"Completely certain" is not required, considering all the other people I feel I've ruled out. Grilling Lolzalot and SpaceSavage makes me relatively secure in them being Legion(and both just really bad at the game, to attract such a grilling in the first place).

As the pool of potential players shrinks, each individual is a better target.


If you believe my words that I am an honest person, then you should be inclined to think that I am Legion because me making this post as Hellbourne would put me at a disadvantage.

Interesting that your only statements are implications, and then you bring up the conditional "If you believe [...] I am an honest person". If you're making a hard claim to Legion, then believing that you are honest is sufficient. Yet you never make such a claim, and I don't understand why you split into cases based off of that; your thinking is very unclear.

I sense panic. Your post is either a desperate attempt to ward off fire with confusion -- a scared Hellbourne spreading nonsense out of fear -- or you're a new player panicking from a few votes. I'm not entirely certain even you understand your own argument, and the only thing I really got out of it all was "We better wait until we get more information before we vote."

Which I've already discussed puts you further on my radar. Why exactly does giving Hellbourne an additional tempo benefit the Legion team? I understand Fretyukov's point that we have 9 pages of information already, so lynch targets tonight will give us good evidence tomorrow; but you failed to make this argument. Your post was generic scummy nonsense, and I see no reason to let it slide.

If you now side with Fretyukov's point, I accuse you of deciding on "No Lynch" first and thinking up reasons as you go along. Which is evidence of Hellbourne.

[MichaelBurge]

since I have read posts that the curiosity of me being quiet and inactive is leaving me in a safer position than me making this very post.

You read this idea entirely from Fetyukov. Your mind is panicking, and you are splitting everybody into allies and enemies in a desperate attempt to organize against them. It's causing you to lose perspective on what's being said.

[Izual]

MikelBurger too stronk. vote IZUAL 4 prez kk thx bai

[Fetyukov]

MichaelBruge.

Man.

Legend.

Excellent griller.

http://cwgala.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/grilling.jpg

Still not liking a lynch however.

[MichaelBurge]

You may not like a lynch, but how about throwing some fire onto those coals?

The closer he gets to death, the more likely he is to buckle under pressure.

[Fetyukov]

You may not like a lynch, but how about throwing some fire onto those coals?

The closer he gets to death, the more likely he is to buckle under pressure.

"If you ****ing beat this prick long enough, he'll tell you he started the goddamn Chicago fire, now that don't necessarily make it ****ing so!"

- Nice Guy Eddie (from reservoir dogs)

[MichaelBurge]

We might end up with another SpaceSavage, I agree. But his response provides valuable information regardless.

If Hellbourne bandwagons onto a delicious opportunity, this is information.
If Hellbourne sits back quietly while a Legion dies, this is information.
If he continues to panic and hard-claims a power role, this is information.

I don't understand how continuing the grill will give us less information.

[Fetyukov]

Sorry for dub post but I should clarify that a little.

What I meant by it is that grilling can result in some bad, bad reactions regardless of their affiliation, especially with players that are new, or that we aren't familiar with.

By all means keep grilling if you want, who knows what we'll get out of them, but it just has to be examined with the utmost care, as being grilled as either Legion or HB will result in either very well thought out explanations, or very poorly ones, which can easily come from both sides.

I'm basically saying don't kill the guy for one little mistake under pressure, wait for a few mistakes/slips.

[MichaelBurge]

Considering the difficulty of lynching any of the others, what makes you think he'll actually die?

All I'm suggesting is an extra coal on the fire.

[Fetyukov]

I don't understand how continuing the grill will give us less information.

There's a difference between good information and bad information.

Now I dunno if neko or whoever is legit in his post or if he's running scared, but I DO know that if he posts enough about anything amongst the posts will be many things that can be used to justify his innocence, and many that be used to justify his execution.

If it's VERY forced information the quality of all those quotes diminishes, making it essentially useless.



Also to point out, it was your grilling who revealed our Scout. If we accidentally reveal Lego or WS that WOULD be too much information.

Once again: not sayin' not to grill, just keep it under well done.

[MichaelBurge]

All of those arguments apply equally well to Lolzalot, whom you had no trouble lynching.

If there is a Legionnaire in the game, please go to random.org and roll a random number between 0 and 1. If it's 0, protect SpaceSavage. If it's 1, protect Michael Burge.

If there is a Witch Slayer in the game and YamaNeko turns up Legion, shoot either the last person to vote for him or the 2nd-last with 50% probability on each. If YamaNeko turns up Hellbourne, shoot Izual.

[Fetyukov]

Yeah, I see how those apply to Lolzalot too, I see your point. It seems silly to me now, but I just now realize how grilling someone and revealing the only legion PR left is less likely than revealing a HB. (3:1)

I'm not even sure why you left the lolzalot case. YA and Yukari say "He's a moron" and you move on, he hasn't said anything since.

And Devalisk is acting stupid.

As is Izual.

Goddamn actually now that I think of it there are a lot of poor players in this game.


I dunno, I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place. After v2 I thought "Hey, I won't vote inactives/stupids because they're not nessecarily evil masterminds" and I decide to only vote those I believed were HB.

Now I'm thinking it might be a good idea to get rid of those people simply because we have so many of them and can't afford to keep them in this game.

I'll decide in about an hours time if I want to go along with Burge and grill/kill some burgers or not lynch anyone today (which I believe at this point has turned from a no-information dangerous option to a safer one)

[YamaNeko]

First thing's first:

Your thinking is very unclear.

Goal Achieved!

I am a new player to this group of players, but not the game. Confusion on what my role on the first day cannot harm me on either side especially since I can't tell who to trust being new to the players. If I was Hellbourne, I would continue my train of crazy hypotheticals of "If this or this or this, then", to confuse you on my role, however, since I am not, I am hard claiming that I am Legion.

My first post was that confusing and pretty useless purposefully because I was unsure of who I can trust and who I can't. I believe Burge and Fetyukov are Legion after reviewing the posts, unless they're that good players attempting to reveal the roles of all players on the first day as a Hellbourne to cause confusion, which is a pretty risky move since Hellbourne players have yet to be revealed to each other. But, I won't rule this out in the following days.


If anyone's munching popcorn while giggling at the Legion fighting each other, it's YamaNeko.

Very true. I was enjoying the fighting and waiting what to do.

------------------------------------

After reviewing the posts I will vote change to TheVendetta because I want more information from him and if he doesn't respond and wants to keep to No Lynch, then I suspect him even more, since he claims that he has played this game in the past, we definitely have enough information to get an educated Lynch going on. So I want to see how he responds. Hopefully this action will prove my innocence.

[Lolzalot]

Yeah, I see how those apply to Lolzalot too, I see your point. It seems silly to me now, but I just now realize how grilling someone and revealing the only legion PR left is less likely than revealing a HB. (3:1)

I'm not even sure why you left the lolzalot case. YA and Yukari say "He's a moron" and you move on, he hasn't said anything since.

And Devalisk is acting stupid.

As is Izual.

Goddamn actually now that I think of it there are a lot of poor players in this game.


I dunno, I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place. After v2 I thought "Hey, I won't vote inactives/stupids because they're not nessecarily evil masterminds" and I decide to only vote those I believed were HB.

Now I'm thinking it might be a good idea to get rid of those people simply because we have so many of them and can't afford to keep them in this game.

I'll decide in about an hours time if I want to go along with Burge and grill/kill some burgers or not lynch anyone today (which I believe at this point has turned from a no-information dangerous option to a safer one)

It's my first werewolf game too(same as YamaNeko), but I was following all the others games avidly, thinking it would somehow help when I tried out.

Back on topic;

devilesk has been "popcorn munching" all game, besides his first post where he was voting YamaNeko, and the he pops up with two quick posts smelling blood when turn their attention to Yama. Seems scummy to me.
(Sorry for not replying, was busy sleeping)
I still don't have enough info to vote on him yet, but I'll gladly vote if someone comes with more information.

[YawningAngel]

I am a purposeful inactive. I will give you the two cases:

If I am Legion, then it can be the case that since I am new to this game, I do not know anyone in this game that well to make an intelligent read or comment. I am not the type of person to just blindly lynch players without being certain or with convincing enough evidence to support it.

If I am Hellbourne, then it can possibly be the case that my hypothetical case of me being Legion is a complete fabrication. However, given that because I am writing this post, it would put me at even more suspect to be Hellbourne, since I have read posts that the curiosity of me being quiet and inactive is leaving me in a safer position than me making this very post. So if I were Hellbourne, wouldn't it be wiser for me to let people duke it out and let people think I am one of those "popcorn munchers"/"inactives"?

Thus, the next two cases:
If you believe my words that I am an honest person, then you should be inclined to think that I am Legion because me making this post as Hellbourne would put me at a disadvantage.
If you don't believe my words, then you would be inclined to think I am Hellbourne because I am just simply being deceptive by making this post making you think that I am Legion, while I am truly Hellbourne.

So, where did this post leave you guys? Hopefully back at square one, unless I made a flaw somewhere, which I don't believe I did, however, regardless if I am Hellbourne or Legion, I still do not like to jump the gun on lynch votes, thus I still keep my vote as No Lynch. Which supports the fact that I am telling the truth and thus Legion, or perhaps I am following the logic of Burge that a vote to no lynch will give the Hellbourne an advantage on the Legion as a Hellbourne.
This is totally illogical. Clearly, regardless of your affiliation, you're going to claim Legion whether it's true or not.

[Yukari]

Debating whether or not to totally WIFOM-mind**** everyone, leaning towards no

[TheJoo]

Can someone tell me what WIFOM means? I don't understand all the terms yet.

[MichaelBurge]

devilesk has been "popcorn munching" all game, besides his first post where he was voting YamaNeko, and the he pops up with two quick posts smelling blood when turn their attention to Yama. Seems scummy to me.

Devilesk has been decidedly *not* popcorn munching.


Did you even read the thread

Nope.

Knowing Devilesk, we're not going to get anything out of him. But at least he's honest, right? He just plays Minecraft all day on my server!

Maintaining my vote on YamaNeko. I'm actually perfectly happy with ending the day with a YamaNeko lynch right now, and encourage everyone else to kill him as well.

[TheVendetta]

First thing's first:


Goal Achieved!

I am a new player to this group of players, but not the game. Confusion on what my role on the first day cannot harm me on either side especially since I can't tell who to trust being new to the players. If I was Hellbourne, I would continue my train of crazy hypotheticals of "If this or this or this, then", to confuse you on my role, however, since I am not, I am hard claiming that I am Legion.

My first post was that confusing and pretty useless purposefully because I was unsure of who I can trust and who I can't. I believe Burge and Fetyukov are Legion after reviewing the posts, unless they're that good players attempting to reveal the roles of all players on the first day as a Hellbourne to cause confusion, which is a pretty risky move since Hellbourne players have yet to be revealed to each other. But, I won't rule this out in the following days.



Very true. I was enjoying the fighting and waiting what to do.

------------------------------------

After reviewing the posts I will vote change to TheVendetta because I want more information from him and if he doesn't respond and wants to keep to No Lynch, then I suspect him even more, since he claims that he has played this game in the past, we definitely have enough information to get an educated Lynch going on. So I want to see how he responds. Hopefully this action will prove my innocence.

I'm extremely dissappointed in your attempt at an argument right here Yama. And after I read the rest of the posts I'll add more, but you need to read the thread before making attempts at arguing, because last time I checked my vote was for Lolzalot, not a no lynch.

[MichaelBurge]

An interesting point, Vendetta. Yama seems all the more panicked, to the point that he looks at my obvious "Michael Burge votes people who vote No Lynch" that I threw out there and uses it as an excuse to draw attention away from himself.

It's very important that you get your facts right, Yama. Even if it wouldn't persuade me to change my vote, now everyone else will be suspicious of you for picking an easy target and making up reasons to switch.

Vote: YamaNeko

I encourage everyone to throw more fire onto the stack.

[TheJoo]

So what, he votes no lynch, then attacks people who vote no lynch?
Well done Yama, you are now more scummy then Lolzalot.

Vote YamaNeko

[Fetyukov]

Well, I'm no longer stuck between a rock and a hard place.

I don't have to decide between voting the least helpful and voting those whom I think are hellbourne, I can get both right here vote yamaneko.

I think the real clincher for me was when you said


I am a new player to this group of players, but not the game. Confusion on what my role on the first day cannot harm me on either side especially since I can't tell who to trust being new to the players

This doesn't make sense. As Legion, you want everyone to believe that you're Legion. Now, because of that ambiguity and confusion, you're likely going to get lynched (which is harmful to you if you're Legion or HB!).

A normal, straight-headed Legion player would make himself clearly Legion, like I did in V2, which was my first game ever. By the end, everyone on the Legion team had fully acknowledged my Legionness I was able to help lead lynches against 2 HB members. I could not have done this if people were unsure of my role.

Now I would understand if you wrote that up and followed with "you know, on second thought, that was a little confusing. Sorry, I'm new to this game, let me clear it up and explain what I meant * proceeds to prove Legionness*"

But you didn't, it was simply "Uh... I meant to be confusing! Because I'm new to you people! And this seems smart!"

The other one (not enough to convict on it's on, but certainly helps) is this


Very true. I was enjoying the fighting and waiting what to do.

That is a very unhelpful stance, one that HB would definitely try to take, and one that Legion should probably avoid. It's okay to "wait and see" so long as there's a response afterwards, but there wasn't. You waited until page 9 after you had been accused to respond to us, when you had plenty of opportunity to jump in earlier.

If you're not going to post after watching a fight, then you can watch them from the sidelines.

[YawningAngel]

Do we believe lynching YamaNeko worthwhile if he's merely an innocent moron?

[Fetyukov]

But I think he's 70% likely HB, 30% likely innocent moron.

I'm lynching him for the HB, not caring if he flips legion for the innocent moron.

[TheJoo]

Do we believe lynching YamaNeko worthwhile if he's merely an innocent moron?
It was pretty much the same with Lolzalot, however Lolzalot in my opinion is more likely to be an innocent moron then YamaNeko.

[TheVendetta]

Yama, after all the time I've spent conversing with you, I'm afraid that you're going to swing my vote in your direction.. I've seen you argue before, but somehow your skills are not being reflected in your posts, whether it be out of fear or just laziness on your part. Until otherwise noted, my suspicions are drifting your way, and with that, I unvote Lolzalot and vote YamaNeko.

[MichaelBurge]

I repeat:

If there is a Legionnaire in the game, choose with 50% probability between me and SpaceSavage to protect.

If there's a Witch Slayer in the game, he should probably shoot Izual but it's not so critical I'm going to orange-text it.

Tomorrow though, I need to grill Yukari pretty hard.

[SpaceSavage]

unvote Lolzalot

vote YamaNeko.

Burge seems to make sense here, My vote will go to Yama. I shall begin to pray for the RNG gods in the night

[YamaNeko]

No sense in really defending myself. The more I defend, the more I look like a Hellbourne, when I'm not. I did claim I was an honest person in my first post, but you'll find out tomorrow when/if the vote goes through to kill me off today.

[devilesk]

Why did Jill have to be in the other game :(

[Izual]

MikelBurger deflects critics with power of fire !!! SUPER EFFECTIVE !!!

[devilesk]

Is day over yet? zzzz

[Vahn]

Is day over yet? zzzz

No, only 6 votes, he needs 7.

[Yukari]

Fine, Vote: Yamaneko

[Vahn]

Votes

Key: Player name (Number of votes against player) - List of players who voted.

YamaNeko (7) - Fetyukov, MichaelBurge, SpaceSavage, TheJoo, TheVendetta, Yukari, devilesk
SpaceSavage (2) - Bobble, Naib
MichaelBurge (1) - Izual
TheVendetta (1) - YamaNeko

Players who haven't voted yet: Lolzalot, YawningAngel

With 7 votes YamaNeko (Sapling) has been lynched.

Night 1
It is now night time, night will last until all power roles and the hellbourne have deicide on their actions with a maximum of 48 hours.

[Vahn]

Day 2
Night has ended and the villagers wake up to find TheJoo (Sapling) and SpaceSavage (Scout) have both died during the night.

[MichaelBurge]

This isn't going to be easy considering Fretyukov defended a sapling yesterday, but I'm convinced we should kill him.

This isn't a grill, I legitimately think he's guilty. Here are my considerations:

1.) For the exact same reasons as Lolzalot, he doesn't want to kill YamaNeko. He gives a passionate long-winded defense before giving in to pressure. A Legion does not know who is his teammates, and would not defend him so well. Because he didn't defend Lolzalot for the exact same reason, he must've know he was Legion to make himself look innocent.

2.) Considering there could've been a Legionnaire in the game, there was a chance that an attack on the scout could've gotten one of the Hellbourne killed. We now know there is a Witch Slayer in the game, but the Hellbourne didn't know that. If Fretyukov were Legion, the Hellbourne might not've risked losing a team member to a Legionnaire defense for the sake of a Sapling(and they didn't know I was suspecting Fretyukov yesterday.)

3.) Fretyukov was my biggest suspect yesterday, but I couldn't push a lynch on him on day 1 without more information. The responses I got from many people were panic - either Hellbourne panic or new-player panic; it was hard to tell, but I still feel it was best considering our information.

4.) Fretyukov is playing subtly differently from past games. Compare his pasts from his past few games with the tone of his current one; he's more excited than usual, and more forward. He wants to appear confident in case of a grilling, or because he's excited to be Hellbourne. He also wanted to end the day rather than kill YamaNeko, presumably because he got information he needed for nighttime. This last argument is weak, but I still feel I should mention it.

5.) I lied about grilling Yukari today, so that Hellbourne wouldn't bother trying to lynch me. I think Yukari is a sapling. Only Fretyukov would've brought this point up, out of all the people who could've been Hellbourne.

[MichaelBurge]

Oh, and

Vote: Fetyukov

[MichaelBurge]

To add to point 2, Fetyukov was the target of our Scout report. Hellbourne risked their own team members for the chance to kill Scout before he gave a report on Fetyukov.

[MichaelBurge]

Also, witch slayer should certainly shoot Izual tonight. He's said barely anything and voted random lynches on me. He might not be taking the game seriously, but it could also be his main role is during the night.

[MichaelBurge]

Here's Michael Burge's Official List, in case they kill me tonight:

Hellbourne

Fetyukov
Izual
Naib
Bobble


Legion

Devilesk: Witch Slayer
TheVendetta: Sapling
YawningAngel: Sapling
Yukari: Sapling
Lolzalot: Sapling

[YawningAngel]

Merely an observation, but I doubt Hellbourne would have let a Scout live even if he WASN'T scouting anything useful. If they feared Legionnaire, they would simply have mezzed him instead.

Vahn, do we get to know who was shot and who was NK'd by Hellbourne?

[Vahn]

Nope.

[Izual]

Vote MichaelBurge for orchestrating the brainless and leading those who seek to follow.

[MichaelBurge]

Vote MichaelBurge for orchestrating the brainless and leading those who seek to follow.

Keep in mind that the only reason I'm not killing Izual today is because he's too obvious a kill. Fetyukov and the others give much more information than him; we can kill Izual anytime.

Witch Slayer can, of course, make his own judgment tonight.

[MichaelBurge]

New information has come into my possession after reviewing this thread carefully:

Witch Slayer should shoot either Izual or TheVendetta, preferably Izual.

This wording fixes an interesting issue regarding Izual I might bring up later.

Still lynching Fetyukov:

Vote: Fetyukov

[Yukari]

New information has come into my possession after reviewing this thread carefully:

Witch Slayer should shoot either Izual or TheVendetta, preferably Izual.

This wording fixes an interesting issue regarding Izual I might bring up later.

Still lynching Fetyukov:

Vote: Fetyukov

Care to explain why TheVendetta?
Also I'm willing to support a lynch on Fetyukov, but I won't vote till he speaks up.

[MichaelBurge]

Care to explain why TheVendetta?
Also I'm willing to support a lynch on Fetyukov, but I won't vote till he speaks up.

Unfortunately, I have to get this essay written that's due later today. :/

It's bad enough reading the thread to procrastinate.

[Naib]

To add to point 2, Fetyukov was the target of our Scout report. Hellbourne risked their own team members for the chance to kill Scout before he gave a report on Fetyukov.
wtf do you know who the scouts target was? he died during the night.
you jumped on an inexperienced wearwulf player and all but forced a lynch on him.
now steamrolling over someone who is hllding stong debates (and who did efend a sapling)

actions a hellborne would benefit from. with 2saplings and scout down the hellborn have already benefitted from misdirected targeting. thus

vote: MichaelBurge

[MichaelBurge]

wtf do you know who the scouts target was? he died during the night.
you jumped on an inexperienced wearwulf player and all but forced a lynch on him.
now steamrolling over someone who is hllding stong debates (and who did efend a sapling)

actions a hellborne would benefit from. with 2saplings and scout down the hellborn have already benefitted from misdirected targeting. thus

vote: MichaelBurge

You're not a priority lynch; no reason to get so pissy at me.


@FetyukovI believe you are just scared against the report which may come through in the night.

He had another post where he claimed he was going to scout Fetyukov, but I couldn't find it.

[Yukari]

W[hy]tf do you know who the scout's target was? He died during the night.
You jumped on an inexperienced werewolf player and forced a lynch on him.
Now you are steamrolling over someone who is holding stong debates (and who defended a sapling)

Your actions have done nothing but benefit the Hellbourne; with 2 saplings and scout down, the Hellborne have already benefited from your misdirected targeting. thus

vote: MichaelBurge

Sorry, had to do it.
:scou:

[MichaelBurge]

I recommend searching for Fetyukov within this thread, and reading the thread normally like that.

Hopefully it'll be easier to get a lynch on the guy if everyone does that.

[Naib]

edit

stoopid backwater county with stoopid mobile net

[Yukari]

Naib... are you ok?

[Naib]

no :( back home in suffolk where the mobile net is as bckwards as the locals. back to brum tomorrow tho

[Yukari]

Oh you are on mobile, this makes more sense

[Fetyukov]

Alright, I'm going to be gone until tonight (I chose the right day to make plans eh?) so I'm be giving 1 response post to michaelburge here and now. However, please don't lynch me until I've also had a chance to reply tonight as well. This is to complicated to rely on one post.

[Naib]

You're not a priority lynch; no reason to get so pissy at me.
.
this isnt defending, this is about commenting on my initial observations from day1 activity and night1 attack

[Fetyukov]

First, a little pre-text on MichaelBurge. He is a man whom I believe is very, very smart and very, very clever. When playing werewolf with MichaelBurge it's easy to fall into a trap of following him blindly, agreeing with his reasoning because 90% of the time, it's pretty solid reasoning. Because of this, it's a safer idea to reach conclusions on your own rather than by following burge's logic, which brings me to my role in this game and my actions.


This isn't going to be easy considering Fretyukov defended a sapling yesterday, but I'm convinced we should kill him.

I defended a sappling, but also lynched him eventually, just to point it out.


1.) For the exact same reasons as Lolzalot, he doesn't want to kill YamaNeko. He gives a passionate long-winded defense before giving in to pressure. A Legion does not know who is his teammates, and would not defend him so well. Because he didn't defend Lolzalot for the exact same reason, he must've know he was Legion to make himself look innocent.

Here's the reason I didn't want to bring up yesterday because I did not think it to be quite as valid as it stands out today.

MichaelBurge had a straight and clear path yesterday: SS-lolz-YN. He cited "popcorn munching" as his reasons for aiming for these three. Around the time lolz was cleared I thought that Devalisk would be the next target... apparently not.

I thought to myself "Why YN? Why is he any better than Dev?" and I could not follow Burge's logic: I didn't reach the same conclusions. Because of this, I was rather hesitant to directly follow Burge.

It wasn't until afterwards that YN posted a few things I found very suspicious that I saw what Burge had seen, and that is why I did vote to lynch him at that point.

If I were HB, yes, it would be a good idea to defend YN and appear all white-knight-savoir-of-sapplings, but it would not be wise for me to then turn around and lynch him. It would have been better for me to simply stick to my guns either going with Burge to lynch him, or against him for a no-lynch, not both.


2.) Considering there could've been a Legionnaire in the game, there was a chance that an attack on the scout could've gotten one of the Hellbourne killed. We now know there is a Witch Slayer in the game, but the Hellbourne didn't know that. If Fretyukov were Legion, the Hellbourne might not've risked losing a team member to a Legionnaire defense for the sake of a Sapling(and they didn't know I was suspecting Fretyukov yesterday.)

Some other's have already pointed this out: The scout kill was likely anyways. This has nothing to do with me, not to mention that the post in question was fairly early in the day and it is probable his intended target switched by the end of it.


3.) Fretyukov was my biggest suspect yesterday, but I couldn't push a lynch on him on day 1 without more information. The responses I got from many people were panic - either Hellbourne panic or new-player panic; it was hard to tell, but I still feel it was best considering our information.

Why was I your biggest suspect? Are you saying because I didn't panic I'm your biggest suspect? Alrighty then, this holds no water as a real accusation, I think everyone can see why.


4.) Fretyukov is playing subtly differently from past games. Compare his pasts from his past few games with the tone of his current one; he's more excited than usual, and more forward. He wants to appear confident in case of a grilling, or because he's excited to be Hellbourne. He also wanted to end the day rather than kill YamaNeko, presumably because he got information he needed for nighttime. This last argument is weak, but I still feel I should mention it.

Yeah I'm probably playing different, but it's my third game and I am more confident as I better understand the subtle intricacies of the game.

Your last argument IS weak. If I wanted to simply "end the day" as HB I would have done it by lynching a sappling rather than drawing the topic into a debate, and drawing attention to myself.


5.) I lied about grilling Yukari today, so that Hellbourne wouldn't bother trying to lynch me. I think Yukari is a sapling. Only Fretyukov would've brought this point up, out of all the people who could've been Hellbourne.

I too think you're a sappling, as well as Yukari (or that one of you is WS, but it doesn't matter now I geuss)

So I'll be voting devalisk for right now. He seems like a smart guy on the forums normally, trolling here doesn't seem quite right. I suspect he may be acting like an honest version of all those other inactives to avoid suspicion. I know, it's not much to go on but it's the best I have so far.

[ElementUser]

You spelt his name wrong, it's devilesk

._.

[MichaelBurge]

Between-class intermission.


First, a little pre-text on MichaelBurge. He is a man whom I believe is very, very smart and very, very clever. When playing werewolf with MichaelBurge it's easy to fall into a trap of following him blindly, agreeing with his reasoning because 90% of the time, it's pretty solid reasoning. Because of this, it's a safer idea to reach conclusions on your own rather than by following burge's logic, which brings me to my role in this game and my actions.

I agree that if you think I'm likely Hellbourne, your argument here makes sense. But if I'm Legion, why is it "safer to reach conclusions on your own"? Especially when you comment on my vast intelligence. This isn't a minor nitpick: The Hellbourne prey on confusion and a lack of clear decision-making.




I don't have time to respond fully during this intermission. How about everyone post the answer to this question:

"If I was given Witch Slayer, would I shoot Fetyukov tonight?"

If the right people post "yes" here, I'll switch my vote to TheVendetta who I assume is easier for your minds to lynch? Shooting him with Witch Slayer makes it much easier for me to be flexible with my day lynches, and gets around the issue of Fetyukov being annoying to lynch(he'll be reasonably good at defending himself).

Off to class again, though. Remember, "If I were Witch Slayer, would I shoot Fetyukov tonight?

[YawningAngel]

I'd certainly consider it.

[Yukari]

This show is great, and it's not just me typing out wall of text this time
/popcorn

[YawningAngel]

What Fetyukov has done:

1. Agitate against Burge
2. Suggest we continue to threaten lynches: reasonable
3. Question SpaceSavage's Scout PM
4. Argue for a lynch on Lolzalot
5. Vote no-lynch
6. Argue against Yamaneko's lynch
7. Argue for Yamaneko's lynch

The interesting points here are firstly his choice to move off a no-lynch and on to a lynch, and secondly his abrupt change of tack on YamaNeko.

On the first point:


unvote, vote nolynch

I said earlier if we had enough information and 10 pages I would go for a nolynch.

I think we have enough after 8.

At this point I don't see anybody worth lynching, no "sure bets". Day2 promises to be interesting.
This suggests one of two things: either Fetyukov is firmly convinced that Lolzalot is the only Hellbourne likely to be caught on the first day, or that he himself is Hellbourne. Consider: if I am Legion, then I will perpetuate the day merely in order to see what happens. Hellbourne, by contrast, want each day to end as quickly as possible: the less that is discussed, the lower the chance that they will accidentally out themselves and the less high-priority targets are able to reason through things before being NK'd.

Point two:
http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?p=13542369#post13542369

Not quoted because embedded quotes will be lost. He jumps on the idea that a Legion player "would make himself clearly Legion." Really? He proposes lynches simply on the strength of the fact that openness must be our presiding doctrine? This seems to me to be the flimsiest of flimsy excuses. Once again: why would a player want to end a day on such a note? Answer: they're Hellbourne, by the same logic as used above.

The only reasonable defence Fetyukov can possible have is if he genuinely believed that Lolzalot was our only day one lead: I call upon him now to argue as such, or walk the green mile to his fate.

Finally, to reiterate what Burge said:
If I were Witch Slayer, would I shoot Fetyukov?

[devilesk]

This sucks, we lost scout already. Damn nerd outing himself.

[MichaelBurge]

This sucks, we lost scout already. Damn nerd outing himself.

But we've caught two Hellbourne(still need to write this up):

TheVendetta
Fetyukov

The only problem is convincing you guys to kill them. So I ask you

If you were Witch Slayer, would you shoot Fetyukov?

Feel free to support with votes, though I'm sure he'll try to defend himself.

[devilesk]

Can we get the bandwagon started then?

Vote Fetyukov.

[YawningAngel]

No, we can talk about it THEN bandwagon.

[devilesk]

No, we can talk about it THEN bandwagon.
How long is that going take?

[MichaelBurge]

We're just keeping his seat warm, YA.

[YawningAngel]

Clearly

[devilesk]

So who's the third hellbourne?

[MichaelBurge]

Let's focus on two at a time. Especially when the two I mentioned turn out correct tonight.

[MichaelBurge]

Actually, the last Hellbourne is Naib or Bobble.

If I live tonight, I'm going to grill both of them hard.

[devilesk]

Let's hope you live then.

[Yukari]

If he doesn't, I'll do it.

Which is worse, grilled by burge, or myself?

[devilesk]

And why should we trust either of you two?

[YawningAngel]

Because they'll killgrill you if you don't.

[Yukari]

Strange that you would support burge grilling another player tomorrow, THEN bring up the issue of trust, there

[devilesk]

Yukari, you maf?

[TheVendetta]

I'm curious as to how any of these accusations come about, but allow me to catch up before I say anything worth reading.

[Yukari]

Yukari, you maf?

yes devilesk, i'm very maf.

[Izual]

So far all I've read from this game is MichaelBurge averting attention from himself by sending it on everyone but himself, or those who intrude into him. Now then, if you will notice in the previous 12 pages that each and every person who has either targeted him or disagreed with his claims, aside from said select few who can penetrate him, he has retaliated by stating some odd percentages that he most likely draws up from crotch of his favorite cat (having only one tail) and spews the ladder number as a measurement of to which some odd player with power in this game should kill the aforementioned "haters". To continue this block of text that has partial meaning and more fluff to further confuse, irritate, and time consume the owner of the MichaelBurge logo, I shall describe as to how one defeats such a presence in a game without faces. If you will take a fancy to how my two votes so far have been to and solely to the MichaelBurge of question, you can see how I have minimized my bias as to what affiliation he lie. This is because a player of this standard cannot win regardless of being the "Good" or "Evil" as he makes himself the biggest target with nullification to his standard. As to this, his relentless persecution of the smallest mishap of detail, whether intended or not, forces the Helbourne to either kill or manipulate kills to single out the witness of MichaelBurge to prevent an uprising from taking place. Now if he is the side of "Evil", then he will have the easiest job of all, as he can orchestrate two disjointed sets of kills, increasing the speed as to which he should win. Now then, the obvious relation that would develop between a novice and this found MichaelBurge would be to analyze his statements and form an opinion, most likely agreement with one or more of his points. But in order to complete the game with minimal manipulation upon oneself, as well as an increased chance to win (for either side), the thoroughbred MichaelBurge must be eliminated immediately and swiftly. Without trial. If one is to take his place and resume his iron fist, they too must be removed. Once everyone feels they are able to contribute equally, and only then, can the game be on an even field for each and every play, regardless of power. Until then, we are at the mercy of his fingers. The strong gain power, but when the weak have power to remove the strong, they do.

TL;DR
Vote MichaelBurge
He is too powerful
I have and will continue to only vote for him until he is removed
Good day