"Always" target melee barrack first

[Etdashou]

I would like this thread to be a reminder or perhaps for someone who doesn't know it. I tried to search for this in some "user" guide created here and I rarely see this.

Always target the Melee barrack first when you attack the ennemy base (if possible...)

Why?

- Lower HP regen than Range barrack = faster to kill
- If you kill melee rax, it gives you better creeps (like 4, 5 better melee creep) vs Range barrack that only gives 1 range creep (or 2?)
- Range barrack have a high HP regen, this mean that it will take longer to kill = this mean the other team have more time to come and kill you.

The only time I would target the range barrack first is for some reason his remaining HP is very low. Then some quick hits will kill it fast. But if you face the 2 rax full HP, GO melee first.

Simply create a practice game and look at the HP regen of Range barrack vs Melee. Because practicly each game I play I need to say that in team chat, I decided to write a post...

Am I right about this? or not.

[LightRain]

Sometimes your creeps will stick to the ranged barracks and it's faster to focus it than to only use heroes on the melee barracks. But yes, melee barracks has higher payoff.

[Sub_]

No, not always. But sometimes. More often than not.

[Happyfish]

they have different armor values...

[Workdawg]

Sometimes your creeps will stick to the ranged barracks and it's faster to focus it than to only use heroes on the melee barracks. But yes, melee barracks has higher payoff.

This.

I ALWAYS focus melee barracks if team is with, or creeps aren't doing any damage to either rax for whatever reason, but if I have a bunch of creeps focusing the Ranged Barracks and we can take it down together (or do 1/2 damage to both), it's obviously better to focus whatever one the creeps are stuck on.

[Zoneseek]

Sometimes your creeps will stick to the ranged barracks and it's faster to focus it than to only use heroes on the melee barracks. But yes, melee barracks has higher payoff.

What this guys said.

Go for melee barracks as priority, but if you're rushing the base with 10~ creeps and they all jump on the ranged barracks, don't be a clueless fool. I have seen it happen many times.

[Etdashou]

Yep, I agree with the creep! Logical anyway. But I would say (for most of the games I played..) that most of the time their is like 1 or 2 melee and one range left. If it is the case, and those creeps target Range, I think it is still better to go like 3 heroes on melee..

But if their is like 10 creeps on range... go for it.

[dune]

Ranged Rax has 5 armour, Melee Rax has 15. If you need to get out quickly, but have time for one Rax, take the Ranged. If you have a bit more time, definitely take the Melee first.

[Etdashou]

Well.... I should have done that before.

I made a practice game, and created 3 heroes lvl 16 each with no gear really (LEgionaire, MAgebane, Moon Queen). And I spawned a melee barrack then a range barrack. I had a stopwatch to look at the time to kill each one individually. (it was spawned in the middle of the forest with no creep attacking but 3 heroes lvl 16)

Melee rax: 18s
Range: 14s!

Im a fool to believe that melee is faster.

Conclusion: If possible and you have time to, attack melee as it gives you a better advantage in-game.
However if you are short on time and want to try to do a rax kill, depending on your current creep attack, it may be faster on Range (however be careful that if you cant destroy the range, it will regen FAST).

Well.. there may be 365 other reasons to focus on one than the other, but it may help people to know the actual killing time from 3 normal heroes (with no gear).
More tests could be done.

[ElementUser]

Ranged Rax has 5 armour, Melee Rax has 15. If you need to get out quickly, but have time for one Rax, take the Ranged. If you have a bit more time, definitely take the Melee first.

That's pretty much what I do :)

[LegoPirate]

melee rax takes about 2x as long to kill as ranged rax. hp regen isnt really that much of a difference unless you come back to try to bd (thats when u find the range rax at full hp -_-)

[dreamex]

afaik the two raxes have the same 2.5 static HP regen.

Melee Rax has 2850 effective HP, Ranged Rax has 1950.

I think Hero Damage in DotA deals 50% to Fortified Armor (buildings), I don't remember if that's the case within HoN.

[A`nub`is]

dreamex, range barracks defuinitely have about 20 or so hp regen per second.

I wonder why, can't recall they ever had different reg in DotA?


And I never really though much about this, but:
Couldn't it be useful to only have that 1/2 buffed ranged creeps (instead of 4/5 melee ones) that push towards the enemy base slower, which will mean that if they reach the enemy base there will be far more creeps and especially ballistas/catapults?

[ElementUser]

afaik the two raxes have the same 2.5 static HP regen.

Melee Rax has 2850 effective HP, Ranged Rax has 1950.

I think Hero Damage in DotA deals 50% to Fortified Armor (buildings), I don't remember if that's the case within HoN.

Unless they changed this recently, HoN's been using the DotA 6.4x regen the whole time (where Ranged rax has like 20 HP/s regen and melee has like 2.5)

[p0psicl3stik]

Your creeps focus fire the ranged first... So If you rax the ranged first you have a better chance to kill the melee

Also Ranged barracks is where the damage is, so if you have upgraded archers/warlocks and you push another lane and they forget about the lane you raxed... Then they will be in trouble on more then 1 front [ If you get kicked out before you kill the melee ]

So the more the raxed lane gets pushed thats 1 / 2 people that have to keep defending it so thats 1 / 2 people not in a team fight and it can make a huge difference

[dune]

afaik the two raxes have the same 2.5 static HP regen.

Melee Rax has 2850 effective HP, Ranged Rax has 1950.

I think Hero Damage in DotA deals 50% to Fortified Armor (buildings), I don't remember if that's the case within HoN.

It's much higher than 2.5 hp/sec.

[Luxpus]

and what about the shrines? (I think thats the name).. what do they do? i've always wondered..

[Toryama]

Ancients of Wind(?) in Dota have higher regen rates which corresponds to the ranged barracks having higher regen. I think shrines are supposed to replace ziggs/moon wells which don't really do anything in Dota except distract creep fire and they posses no regen.

[LightRain]

Shrines give you a bit of gold if you last hit them, if I recall correctly, and otherwise just distract creeps.

[crazysheep]

^ Half a hero kill bounty is hardly "a bit of gold". But they do distract creeps.

Agreeing with OP 100%, FF the melee rax for the advantage in pushing down the lane.

[Shadey]

I think people (and creeps too) go for the ranged barracks just because it's closest to you after you destroy the tower and it's bigger than the melee barracks....

[dune]

^ Half a hero kill bounty is hardly "a bit of gold". But they do distract creeps.

They can give as little as 13 gold IIRC, so it all depends really. Generally you don't need to target them, but you can do if there's nothing else worth targetting.


Ancients of Wind(?) in Dota have higher regen rates which corresponds to the ranged barracks having higher regen. I think shrines are supposed to replace ziggs/moon wells which don't really do anything in Dota except distract creep fire and they posses no regen.

In DotA, AFAIK, they are equal armour and hp regen now, but yes the shrines are just the random buildings scattered in the bases.

[LightRain]

^ Half a hero kill bounty is hardly "a bit of gold". But they do distract creeps.

Agreeing with OP 100%, FF the melee rax for the advantage in pushing down the lane.

i) at the point in the game where you are breaking shrines so your creeps hit the enemy tree faster, it really doesn't matter anymore
ii) Melee rax has better payoff but sometimes you can guarantee a ranged rax kill (due to creeps going to that one first) where you couldn't guarantee a melee rax kill. It's not completely mindless.

[Etdashou]

For the shrines, I think it can be useful to kill them, as it makes your creep faster to attack the main big building. Also it gives gold if you last hit. I think I saw once like 134 gold... but some tests on EM or notEM would be nice to be sure.

However it is not as important as a rax...