Help - tb with feeding problem

[Enai_Siaion]

Hi,

So as to not QQ without also looking for help: can anyone help me solve this problem?

The scene: tb starting out well, harassing and LH'ing with a good early CL/SF/BL/BL/BL/ult build, then falling behind in exp when the game proceeds from laning to ganking. I don't know what everyone else is doing to get exp at that point while it seems they're just running around the map.

Being 1-3 levels behind at the double figure level mark and constantly getting focused to mush in the first two seconds of any group fight, I don't get to kill anything. Although my assist score is decent, I keep getting instakilled before anyone on the other team starts dying, resulting in a horrible feeder score.

This is usually around the time when I attempt to save money for good items, but I never get there due to constantly getting ganked when I'm not with a team or getting focus fired when I am.

After level 13 or so, the only time I get to even hit an enemy is with the ult from across the map.


The other problem is that people seem unwilling to follow me into a winnable fight in the midgame when not everything is 5v5. I mean, 2v2 seems possible to win if you get the drop on them, but my teammates just hang around two screens back and chicken out as soon as I take damage. This means I get 1v2'd to death and whoever I'm shooting at even gets away.

Why are they being so (excessively?) careful and am I missing something?


I don't jungle. Is this bad?


Thanks for any advice!:D

[rockchalk]

try to not position yourself in the middle of a team/group fight. standing outside the main action allows you to use your nuke(blast of lightning) on their heroes without immediate threat. Thunderbringer has the best nuke in the game, so he is obviously a very good target for the other team. Just try to make sure your team is going in first and you just hang back while casting nuke and make sure you don't get separated.

[GaIactic]

If you're ever hitting anyone with your autoattack in teamfights, you're too close. You should be in the back, at max casting range, nuking. Let your team initiate, if no one picked a better initiator than Thunderbringer that means your team failed at the picking screen.

Don't just save your nuke for killing people, cast it whenever it's off cooldown.

Also, your ult is a great thing to use in the middle of teamfights, don't just save it to kill runners. It's also useful early when you're just trying to gank 1 or 2 enemies. besides the damage, It shows you how close or far away the opposing teammates are, and should give you a good idea of whether or not you're being baited or you have some time to kill them before backup arrives.

^_-;

[Enai_Siaion]

So basically I need to stand the hell away from the fight that is about to begin and hope the team does something before I have to.

Thanks for the ult suggestion, though I'm still worried that I'll miss a kill just to take a few nibbles out of everyone's life bar in a team fight.

Remaining question: what do I do about not getting a lot of exp once the game proceeds away from laning?

[Mephs]

So basically I need to stand the hell away from the fight that is about to begin and hope the team does something before I have to.

Thanks for the ult suggestion, though I'm still worried that I'll miss a kill just to take a few nibbles out of everyone's life bar in a team fight.

Remaining question: what do I do about not getting a lot of exp once the game proceeds away from laning?

Its not so much a "nibble" as a chunky bite (assuming you got lightning rod) if you're close enough to the fight.

Other uses for ult'ing other than killing low hp runners:

-Reveals all enemy heroes on demand, gives you plenty of time to nuke that scout trying to get away from the fight, or someone the time to disable an invis target

-Stops blink ults before they can get off (also simultaneously revealing where they are so you can rush them down and prevent said blink-ult)

-Starts a teamfight off with a good burst so your enemy team essentially has a much lower hp pool to fight you with.

If you use it only to KS then you're not really using Zeus to his full potential.

I usually open with his nuke and ult once the other team has been initiated on (or initiates) that way I know I'm in range for a lightning rod burst, - but in between nukes you should try to be just out of range, or sight entirely, the idea is to not be visible as much as possible but support with your nukes. If someone moves closer to try and initiate, but is quick to retreat, pop them with a zap everytime they try to get too close, but remember to stay out of danger while doing so. Don't chase someone to the back line, try to nuke their squishiest target that is in arm's reach of your nuke.

Also, always save your nuke for an important stun if needed, IE stopping bane's ult, or stopping a mag ult, something that can interrupt channels is always good to save for that if necessary. If your team is relying on you to stun a channel when there's several stunners in the team, they doin it wrong. Your primary job is to nuke, avoid contact, and reveal when against a team that uses stealth. Note: your blast nuke also reveals nearby targets. Your auto attack is just too short range and not worth using unless you're absolutely safe (read: 5v1) AND provided you're OOM otherwise.

[Corven]

So basically I need to stand the hell away from the fight that is about to begin and hope the team does something before I have to.

Thanks for the ult suggestion, though I'm still worried that I'll miss a kill just to take a few nibbles out of everyone's life bar in a team fight.

Remaining question: what do I do about not getting a lot of exp once the game proceeds away from laning?

Stick in the lanes whenever you can. Be sure not to push alone though... it's good to carry homecoming stones. So porting to a tower that is being pushed by enemy creeps is a good way to keep the steady xp flowing in. Always try to be part of the team fights/ganks when they happen. Avoid dying at all costs. Stick back so you arent focused.

More or less, make sure you are around the action all the time to keep that steady flow of xp and dont die.

[Heliotic]

Use homecoming stones to teleport between lanes instead of walking around. Get boots before the laning phase to keep the move speed up and minimise time.

Stand right back. If you can lighting bolt them, you're close enough.

[akitoes]

Read the two guides down there
(in order)

And you'll be better than 90% of players with tb

The item builds may be outdated, but the real gold in these guides is the gameplay advice

[Enai_Siaion]

Thanks for the tips on movement and homecoming spam to get around. Doesn't the latter mean that I'll be walking around with an inventory entirely filled with them, though? I mean I can always homecome back to town and buy more, but then I can't go back due to the cooldown.

If you save the nuke for stuns, I suppose that means doing damage by spamming level 1 CL at whatever is on hand and cranking LR? This should be enough to get a kill in about 7-8 seconds if the enemy ever lets me, because hanging back is no good when the enemy (= scout) waits in stealth for everyone else to pass and then ganks me in the back. Would it be worth it to use the ult just as a comsat to figure out if the team (= me) is about to get ganked, or should I fill my inventory with wards and leave a trail of them wherever I go? That doesn't seem effective, but everyone recommends doing exactly that so...

I think I'll keep the ult for hero kills, though. If I use it for AoE damage, then it means everyone else has an easier time killing the heroes and I lose mana so I have a harder time. This being the kind of community it is (3/6/5 STOP FEEDING WORTHLESS NOOB), I'll watch my own score until I'm ahead of everyone else. Thanks, though.

[bananaT]

Homecoming stones stack in 1 item slot. You can carry as many as you want.

[Enai_Siaion]

Doh -_-

Someone on the other team ninja'd the tb today and forced me to pick pyro. He proceeded to ult kill me twice (Why do I always fail at that? :mad:) and got me down to 1 or 2 HP (!) a third time. And with the pyro I finally managed a positive K/D rating and turned around my loss streak, too. I'm starting to think that ape hates me. :(

[TerranEarth]

Um you need to go CL, BL, BL, LR, BL, Ulti, BL lol. Your probably a few levels behind because you roam too much, and are not getting any kills out of it, and are then underfarmed and thus die instantly in team fights. With TB you first need to dominate mid lane while grabbing ALL the runes. BOTTLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND (enhanced marchers is your second best friend to run away from focus fire). At level 7 or 6 start ganking w/ the help of good runes to get that sure kill. After that return to your lane keep the opposing guy down, and when you see a good chance to gank w/ good rune do it. Rinse and repeat, get core items, and stay back in team fights. For more details try reading a good guide.

[Bobnintendo]

Thanks for the tips on movement and homecoming spam to get around. Doesn't the latter mean that I'll be walking around with an inventory entirely filled with them, though? I mean I can always homecome back to town and buy more, but then I can't go back due to the cooldown.

If you save the nuke for stuns, I suppose that means doing damage by spamming level 1 CL at whatever is on hand and cranking LR? This should be enough to get a kill in about 7-8 seconds if the enemy ever lets me, because hanging back is no good when the enemy (= scout) waits in stealth for everyone else to pass and then ganks me in the back. Would it be worth it to use the ult just as a comsat to figure out if the team (= me) is about to get ganked, or should I fill my inventory with wards and leave a trail of them wherever I go? That doesn't seem effective, but everyone recommends doing exactly that so...

I think I'll keep the ult for hero kills, though. If I use it for AoE damage, then it means everyone else has an easier time killing the heroes and I lose mana so I have a harder time. This being the kind of community it is (3/6/5 STOP FEEDING WORTHLESS NOOB), I'll watch my own score until I'm ahead of everyone else. Thanks, though.

You can buy homecoming stones at the side shops as well. Also as a Thunderbringer you should kill your enemies, that's for sure but you should not have the highest kill score. Of course it's unavoidable if you have to nuke someone so he can't go back, but even if you have farmed up good money, your nukes are just as strong as without the items. It's best to leave the kills to your carries, if possible. And yes, carrying homecoming stones is a great way to avoid deaths, it costs 135 gold, whereas a death costs you 250+ gold usually and give the enemies gold an xp.

[Enai_Siaion]

Um you need to go CL, BL, BL, LR, BL, Ulti, BL lol.

BL is useless until level 3 anyway, might as well get some LR damage in the meantime.


Your probably a few levels behind because you roam too much, and are not getting any kills out of it, and are then underfarmed and thus die instantly in team fights.

Yes, well, everyone else roams around so either I follow them around and get no exp or I stay in my line and get ganked. At that point I don't really know what to do. :(


At level 7 or 6 start ganking w/ the help of good runes to get that sure kill. After that return to your lane keep the opposing guy down, and when you see a good chance to gank w/ good rune do it.

Ok, thanks.

[EvilClownz]

Hey!!

[Stickyrolls]

Try talking a teammate into buying wards and warding the top/bottom rune for you. Hard in pubs but I find it helps if I promise the lane that buys them that I will help them gank first :D. Keeping Rune control with TB is so nasty b/c it allows you to super harass. It's not uncommon for me to get fb in middle with TB.\

Also It doesn't always work but I try to coordinate my kill with ultimate with the other lanes FB combo's. NOT a ks! But I will generally telling them when I'm about to try and gank mid be prepared for some damage assistance.

[ClawwzZ]

Um you need to go CL, BL, BL, LR, BL, Ulti, BL lol.

oh please. that could very well be something that you are doing wrong with TB sir. the suggested skill build could use some work. in one of the above suggested guide (the one that wasn't merlini's, i haven't seen that one but the other fun was absolutely ace), it emphasizes DO NOT PICK YOUR SKILL UNTIL YOU GET TO YOUR LANE. taking that even further, i suggest don't even pick it til you've had a good 2 minutes understanding how well your opponant/s are last hitting. ONLY EVER get chain lightning if you are getting absolutely raped in the last hits, otherwise AVOID IT ENTIRELY. imo, espec if you are laning solo against melee hero/s, just get BL/SF/BL/SF/BL/ult/BL/SF/SF/cl/ult/STATS++++++. SF by itself does not make chain lightning worth spamming - it is too tempting to cast, and it is mana INFINITELY BETTER SPENT harrassing their laner with bl. at lv 2 and 3 it costs 95 and 115 mana respectively. ABUSE THIS!!! it only takes 2-3 casts for them to seriously consider with taking a walk back to fountain, or wasting all their consumables. even someone with 9+ tangoes, a bottle and 2 hp pots can only last 5 minutes max in a lane with a lv 5 tb in it, if he's playing properly.

[bigmit37]

oh please. that could very well be something that you are doing wrong with TB sir. the suggested skill build could use some work. in one of the above suggested guide (the one that wasn't merlini's, i haven't seen that one but the other fun was absolutely ace), it emphasizes DO NOT PICK YOUR SKILL UNTIL YOU GET TO YOUR LANE. taking that even further, i suggest don't even pick it til you've had a good 2 minutes understanding how well your opponant/s are last hitting. ONLY EVER get chain lightning if you are getting absolutely raped in the last hits, otherwise AVOID IT ENTIRELY. imo, espec if you are laning solo against melee hero/s, just get BL/SF/BL/SF/BL/ult/BL/SF/SF/cl/ult/STATS++++++. SF by itself does not make chain lightning worth spamming - it is too tempting to cast, and it is mana INFINITELY BETTER SPENT harrassing their laner with bl. at lv 2 and 3 it costs 95 and 115 mana respectively. ABUSE THIS!!! it only takes 2-3 casts for them to seriously consider with taking a walk back to fountain, or wasting all their consumables. even someone with 9+ tangoes, a bottle and 2 hp pots can only last 5 minutes max in a lane with a lv 5 tb in it, if he's playing properly.


What is SF?

[Darkewolfe]

I agree that CL is little use early on. What about its value later on, first for getting in another tick of LR, and second when defending base towers to spam and rake the gold in as your other team members push the enemy rax?

[dreamex]

oh please. that could very well be something that you are doing wrong with TB sir. the suggested skill build could use some work. in one of the above suggested guide (the one that wasn't merlini's, i haven't seen that one but the other fun was absolutely ace), it emphasizes DO NOT PICK YOUR SKILL UNTIL YOU GET TO YOUR LANE. taking that even further, i suggest don't even pick it til you've had a good 2 minutes understanding how well your opponant/s are last hitting. ONLY EVER get chain lightning if you are getting absolutely raped in the last hits, otherwise AVOID IT ENTIRELY. imo, espec if you are laning solo against melee hero/s, just get BL/SF/BL/SF/BL/ult/BL/SF/SF/cl/ult/STATS++++++. SF by itself does not make chain lightning worth spamming - it is too tempting to cast, and it is mana INFINITELY BETTER SPENT harrassing their laner with bl. at lv 2 and 3 it costs 95 and 115 mana respectively. ABUSE THIS!!! it only takes 2-3 casts for them to seriously consider with taking a walk back to fountain, or wasting all their consumables. even someone with 9+ tangoes, a bottle and 2 hp pots can only last 5 minutes max in a lane with a lv 5 tb in it, if he's playing properly.

You'll max BL asap anyways, so it really is a difference between early on CL + LR (which is more effective then BL + LR) and giving you an extra nuke to throw at the end of fights vs having BL2 one level sooner OR having LR finished one level sooner.