Soul Reaper

[KayKitten]

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I was wondering if anyone could give me some pointers on lane ganking with SR? i am trying for a supportive role, as you can see i save my judge for heals mostly, and i was wondering if anyone had like any comments on playstyle or whatever.

i like SR alot and i feel that SOTM is insanely important cause the extra nuke initiation is insane, not to mention the base stats on it keeps you up.

Crituqe on replays plx :P

(yes i know its EM was just tryin out a quick match cause its late)

[Glorify1]

Not going to waste my time watching an EM game.

[KayKitten]

lolwut

mk :p

[sHoWTiMe]

lolwut

mk :p

He has a point you know.

[Glorify1]

I'd take a five minutes to quickly watch your early game, and maybe a team fight or encounter, but what's the point when you're playing EM? None of it matters.

[ElementUser]

Ahh, finally accepted a limit 1-2 points in Inhuman Nature I see :)

[Glorify1]

Nah it pretty much sucks - just necessary in the solo strong lane when facing two enemy heroes since you're far more likely to run out of mana.

[MajuiF]

I kinda disagree on Staff of the Master.
Here's why:

Quote taken from clan THR, a DotA-related clan, from the thread named: "LK's guide to Aghanim's Sceptre". The post was by Lonely_Knight.
His post has been modified to fit the HoN names, basically.



Staff of the Master effect: Increases dmg per health point missing from .9 to 1.2.

Analysis: So many people look at that and go "OMG, IMBA. Rush Staff!!11!one!"

Let's say Legionnaire has 2500 hp. He's pretty happy pwning that noob Glacius on your team until Puppet comes over and Ults him with Harkons activated (that's the best I found to reduce a hero's HP by 50% in a short period of time - in the original post, Huskar casted Life Break on Axe to get him 50% hp).
Legionnaire has 50% hp now (for all intents and purposes). You are Soul Reaper. What happens next? You ult!

Lvl 3 ult deals : .9(1250 hp missing)= 1125 dmg (theorically speaking).
Legionnaire now has 125 hp left, so you run over and deathpulse or whack him twice or let your carry get the kill.

Lvl 3 ult with staff deals: 1.2(1250 hp missing)= 1500 dmg (theoretically) but only 1250 dmg actually. Legionnaire dies.

"But LK, you are sure to get a kill with the upgrade! It's USEFUL" The difference in ACTUAL dmg is 125 in this case, and that's probably the MAX you'll see it go (rarely do many heroes break the 2500 mark).

Here's a breakdown:

When he mentions Lvl4 ult, he means lvl 3 ult upgraded with Staff of the Master.

@ 50% health
Max Hp =2500 Lvl3=1125 Lvl4=1250 Difference=125
2000 900 1000 100
1500 675 750 75

@ 55% health
Max Hp =2500 Lvl3dmg=1012.5 Lvl4dmg=1350 Difference=337.5
2000 810 1080 270
1500 607.5 810 202.5

As you can see, at 55%, you see lvl4 ult reach it's full potential, which isn't much. Lvl 3 and lvl 4 ults both leave the target within a few hits of death (1 death pulse and 1 hit for lvl 3 ult, or with 25hp for lvl 4).
How much more math do I have to do to convince you to not get Staff on Necrolyte? 337.5 is probably the best you can get, which isn't saying much.

Soul Reaper's ult is best used to weaken str heroes in team fights, not pick off already low heroes. They are already as good as dead if they stick around, so hurt those actually being a threat in a team fight.
In the first example, without spending 4300 gold, Legionnaire dies and your carry gets the kill. For 700 more, you could grab Astrolabe and Post Haste or a Bloodstone or for 400 more grab Frostfield Plate.

Frostfield Plate better survivability, 200 dmg cold burst which you could follow up with death pulse, and a larger mana pool (because 500 mana for your ult is half your base mana pool at 16 with Staff).
Mana regen items are better for SR so he can constantly churn out Death pulses/Astrolabe to keep you and your team alive longer and for Heartstopper to have noticeable effects. Your overall DPS will be better than that one ult once every 70 seconds. Even if you regen enough mana in 70 seconds for 2 more death pulses, you already surpassed the dmg gain on ult.
Even Codex, for 1450 less, does more dmg than an upgrade with Staff. Codex+ lvl 3 ult gives the same result and 1450g to put towards Astrolabe or Post Haste.

VERDICT: 1/10 (please please please don't KS all beginning of the game just to buy AgS to KS better ><)I'm pretty sure the game mechanics of DotA and HoN are the same for this ult. So normally this post, which was meant for DotA, is relevant.

Just my 2 cents.
- Max.

[Glorify1]

You generally kill heroes with his ult, not weaken them, otherwise you're wasting potential. Unlike a pyro ult, who should be thrown ASAP, Soulreapers ult does less damage the earlier you use it, so if you use it later on when you can kill someone it's dealing it's maximum potential.

[Mizaru1]

You generally kill heroes with his ult, not weaken them, otherwise you're wasting potential. Unlike a pyro ult, who should be thrown ASAP, Soulreapers ult does less damage the earlier you use it, so if you use it later on when you can kill someone it's dealing it's maximum potential.

Agreed. I dealt 1.5k dmg killing an irritating farmed defiler straight off. Speeds up the winning of that team fight by alot.

[MajuiF]

But your ultimate already does huge damage (.9 damage per hp missing). Getting it up to 1.2 is relatively useless, since as said previously, you're unlikely to "use it to its full potential" - since in late-game fights, heroes HP go down fast - 1.2 damage per missing hp won't make a difference.

You better go for frostfield plate, which would be 200gold cheaper or even Totem of Kuldra with 1.5k more. It's much more useful in a teamfight than just a single-target damage source.

If the damage dealt was like 1.5, I agree it would be a great choice. But as mentionned in my previous post, the damage upgrade is too low to make it a viable item.

[Glorify1]

Also gives no hitpoints and limited survivability. .3/life missing is a lot of damage.

[MajuiF]

Not when you only cast it when the enemy hero is low HP.
And if you don't like Forstfield plate, you can get PuzzleBox instead. It's just as deadly and gives you that survivability you need.
Also if you want to be useful in a fight, get Totem of Kuldra. It gives you all the survivability Staff could offer, and is 10x more useful.

Whatever man, I don't want to debate on this for 20 pages, as I know you're 100% sure your build is great. Too bad other opinions don't count.
Good guide otherwise, except for the item build, as I firmly believe Staff is useless. It's just terrible on him.

Please make a note in your guide?
Or you're too stubborn for admitting it might not be the best core item for him.

[Glorify1]

Bad players throw it on low players. Good players cast as soon as they hit the kill threshhold.

[Stickyrolls]

Can't say I've ever seen a competitive player get staff. Your not getting an item for the stats mainly but for it's purpose and staff is kinda weak on him. Build I see a lot is nomes, frost field, sheep. Sheep is great for stats and provides more utility.

[BannyD]

I never get staff on :soulr:. It always seems to give too little benefit for the cost. Normally by the time I cast the ulti the target is already at less health due to team fire + aura + judgement, so the extra damage doesnt do much...for me.

I tend to lean towards frostplate as my first big item (after :NomesWisdom:). The added int helps out my auto attacks a lot, gives a bigger mana pool for Nomes to regen, and lots of tankyness with +armor and easier spamming of Judgement. The added nuke/slow from :FrostfieldPlate: is just icing on the cake :). However, if my team is lacking in the disable department I will definitely go for :KuldrasSheepstick: instead.

I'm also not a pro, but I would tend to believe the extra CC from :FrostfieldPlate: or :KuldrasSheepstick: is better for the team than some extra damage.

[Jackel]

I never get staff on :soulr:. It always seems to give too little benefit for the cost. Normally by the time I cast the ulti the target is already at less health due to team fire + aura + judgement, so the extra damage doesnt do much...for me.

I tend to lean towards frostplate as my first big item (after :NomesWisdom:). The added int helps out my auto attacks a lot, gives a bigger mana pool for Nomes to regen, and lots of tankyness with +armor and easier spamming of Judgement. The added nuke/slow from :FrostfieldPlate: is just icing on the cake :). However, if my team is lacking in the disable department I will definitely go for :KuldrasSheepstick: instead.

I'm also not a pro, but I would tend to believe the extra CC from :FrostfieldPlate: or :KuldrasSheepstick: is better for the team than some extra damage.
This is exactly what I do, a great build imo. If someone has gone / is going nomes on the team I substitute nomes for sac stone.

[KissBlade]

I also agree, dagon or frostfield both outdamage the extra damage boost to your ult from the SoTM. Dagon especially so early to mid lateish.

[MajuiF]

Due to the amount of players questionning your item-build, mind making a note in your guide?
Maybe make another alternative build or something?

[Glorify1]

Nah.

Here's a hint at an actual viable good item that isn't dagon, though.

:Puzzlebox::Puzzlebox::Puzzlebox::Puzzlebox::Puzzl ebox:

[phunkenstein]

Staff is a viable item on him in the right circumstances...like not having enough DPS to kill a hero completely, but your team gets them low. I've seen it plenty in competitive games, you just have to not rely on it as your primary item every game.

[Lethe]

SoTM is quite good on SR, don't know what's with all the hate.

Consider that SR uses mana quite fast, has poor int gain, and will be focused. Sizable hp and mana boost? Check.

I agree that the level 3 upgrade may not seem like much. However, consider the level 2 upgrade, which effectively makes your level 2 ult a level 3 ult. That is a pretty big deal, especially if you aim to farm with SR, farming the required 4400 g for SoTM by level 11 is easy.

One thing though, if you farm sotm as a core item it will cause you to be missing out on mana regen, so you will need to take levels in inhuman nature or buy mana regen items to supplement your item choice.

[Stickyrolls]

To bad these guides are wrote by bads. Worst kinda bad to, one that is close minded. No wonder your team didn't do that well you can't adapt O_o. If current competitive players wrote these guides they would be a lot different and I doubt you would see Staff on SR. Nuff said.

[LegoPirate]

Nullstone > sotm.

[Glorify1]

Writing adaptability is something that is quite impossible to do due to the volatility of certain adaptable builds against certain lineups. It's something you learn, you can't be taught it.

[Stickyrolls]

Said it once before: times seen staff used in competition: ZEROOOOOOO. Good enough reason for me that it's bad. Also the thinking part of my brain tells me it's bad like it's bad on pyro or witch slayer...but hey I guess if your pubstomping 1650 games it's ok.

[Glorify1]

You're not too good at trolling.

[Stickyrolls]

Your not to good at guide writing O_o. Don't make 1650 noob games replays to justify your guides either, it looks silly.

Btw still failed to address my point of never used in competition. So they all wrong buddy?

[Dragnmn]

I planned not to get involved in this, but I can't resist.

SotM basically gives you another 7% of life leeway for a cast, factoring in a 25% magic resistance. (lvl 1: 8%, lvl 2: 9%, lvl 3: 7%). It is your call whether this is worth the investment. I personally would only get this as a luxury, because it's only 10 secs of lvl 4 Withering Presence, or one cast of Judgment (which is 206 damage at lvl 4) (both with 25% magic reduction), or anything your allies can do basically.

I'd say it's a personal choice.

[Stickyrolls]

The basic idea of SR the longer you live the more damage/heal you do. Why I like frost field, shaman headdress, void talisman, and sac stone.

[Glorify1]

You like frostfield which provides no hitpoints, armor which you already have covered with nomes, and limited survivability due to frost which isn't even viable as such due to the prevalence of BKB on carries.

Shaman's headdress is only useful if no one else on the team is going to buy a pipe, and even then you'd rarely build straight hood.

Talisman is useful, but only against certain heroes, predator is one of them. It's circumstantial anyways, depends what is actually killing you, and that can't be determined by me it has to be made by you.

Sacstone is only good in certain lineups where you'll be doing a lot of extended team pushing, generally with more than one hero that can heal like chen or dazzle. It gives mana, hitpoints, that's about it. It's easy to build, but expensive, and not any easier to build the aghanims. Aghanims, however, provides you with the unique ability to assassinate someone a decent amount earlier than you would before, and more importantly gives you health and mana chunks to remain alive and with enough mana during the team fights to use your abilities.

Good alternative core items to SOTM: :KuldrasSheepstick::Puzzlebox:

Situational alternatives or additions to build: :Hellflower::SacrificialStone::VoidTalisman::Barbe dArmor::BarrierIdol::Astrolabe:

It's all dependent on what your team needs. I doubt any competitive player who is even competent will be reading this guide anyways for advice, so this is more crafted towards pub players, and that is a replay of a pub. But I also provided a scrim replay, and I'm sure I have far more experience in competitive HoN play than you do.

[Stickyrolls]

Nothing wrong with more armor considering that it scales. I've never had a problem with the frost effect of "omg there all activating bkb RIGHT NOW my item is so useless". Not to mention the item leaves you free to spam Q.

ROFL COPTERS @ shaman headdress is only usefull if someone isn't making a barrior. Against an aoe heavy lineup it's still a good idea to pick one up or at least the mystic vestment. Watch some replays.

Not really the biggest fan of sac stone either but I would also NEVER buy hellfire on SR. He's not a right click hero and you don't need the attack speed. Sheep is great and really the most items I see used by competitive players are nomes, astrolabe, shamana headress, void, and sheep.

No one said competitive players were reading this...obviously people that need to get better are and others like me to nit pick. I said that I've NEVER seen a competitive player build the item and for good reason. It's like making staff on pyro or witch slayer for the "hp" and added ks ability.

Maybe you should watch some replays and try something different b/c your build is trash. Like a falling man holding onto a blade of grass b/c no one else thinks it's viable...which brings me back to htf this get premium?

[Glorify1]

Eh, arguing with a bad troll isn't worth it.

[KissBlade]

Stickyrolls isn't trolling. He's being blunt but he's 100% correct. I'm quite surprised you didn't know that staff isn't worth it for SR since you're using dota terms in all your guides and it's well known Necrolyte's staff up isn't worth it considering (in most situations) it's out damaged by a dagon (which isn't saying a whole lot). Necrolyte's one of the most studied heroes in dota too since he was quite broken for a long time so it's not like some new revelation that Staff or Aghanim's just isn't worth the buy for him, especially as early as you suggest. Sheepstick, frostfield, astrolabe are all significantly more important.

Also I'm not too fond of inhumane nature. At best it's like an extra judgment during fights which four level of stats will likely provide you and give you extra survivability.

[Glorify1]

Sheepstick is unreliable to farm, plus it doesn't provide you with enough hitpoints, in combination with nomes it provides overkill on mana regen.

Frost is no hitpoints, limited survivability in a bkb meta.

Astrolab is most definitely not better, it's situational.

The item build I suggest is useful in every situation. Sure, a necronomicon is probably better in 80% of the situations, but it's not useful at all if you don't know how to use it(majority of the people who are going to be using this guide). All the other items are situational.

[Stickyrolls]

Frost may not have hp but it does give you ehp. I laugh when I see people just stack hp with out getting damage mitigation. If you combine armor+magic armor with around 1200 hp you will survive longer in a team fight than the guy with just 1600 hp and no additional armor or magic armor. SR likes fights to be drawn out and chasing is often involved, another reason I like frost armor.

See, I'm a big fan of puzzlebox. It's probably one of my 3 most favorite items in the game. However, I think it would only be good on him if someone else hadn't picked up all ready. It's nice on slower, stuners and people with mana problems that also need a little hp (pebles, hag, etc).

Even when people calculate the max damage potential for the difference staff makes this is still assuming you use it at exactly the right time every time. I think staff could be a nice situational item against a team full of tanky heroes like defiler, armadon, a fed zyphyr, etc.

[Glorify1]

Are you kidding? Stacking them is even more ridiculous, almost a guaranteed 1200 pure damage when they blow up against aoe lineups and regardless increases your pushing power substantially. You can afford to waste them to kill wards and still have one up during pushes, etc etc.

Staff is all around, against any opponent, going to work. It's easy to farm for the newer players since it's in easy steps that help them substantially, and that's what this guide is geared for doing. Helping newer players perform well under any circumstance.

[Mercyfulfate]

Thoroughly enjoyed this guide/vids that you posted. Felt like i learned quite a bit. Keep up the good work.

[RafSimons]

the poster's item progression is fine

Angel most of the people here don't realize that the purpose of staff of the master not primarily for the boost to ult (though its a nice bonus), but mostly b/c its CHEAP and easy to farm in pieces, all of its pieces give you something useful, and the 1200 item that gives you hp + mana is one of the best early game items for him for tanking purposes


also frostfield is good in dota and probably hon as like a pretty late item after you already finish your staff of master or totem of kundra, havn't really tried it on soul reaper in this game. people generally in go some form of steamboots (or other boots), a general regen/tanking item (nomes), to either totem of kundra + shrunken head or staff of master + frostfield is another combo


i've tried out maxing judgement and then withering (+ ult), as well as my standard build withering, judge, judge, mana aura, judge, ult, judge, mana aura to max then withering to max.

I don't really notice too much of a difference between the builds in the early laning phases. I would definitely recommend 1 lvl in withering early. My reasoning on getting mana aura is that free mana is never a bad thing and I like to spam my spell in lane, and pushes, and that allows me to farm while with team (rather than having teammates taking my farm) or I can solo push and tp out, D a lane quickly.

[Glorify1]

Personally I loved shivas, but it just blows dick in HoN.

[Tripod]

Glorify, if anything, I think SotM should be a late game luxury for long drawn out games where the extra percentage actually makes it more worth it. It is easy to farm, so by the time you would get it in your item progression, I would assume most players would have no more than ~1600hp, in which case the increase in damage is extremely comparable to getting SotM on WS or pyro, which is indeed extremely frowned upon. But getting it after Totem, Puzzle, Frost, Sac Stone, etc could be more viable imo.

[pewpewstar]

Personally I loved shivas, but it just blows dick in HoN.

Mind elaborating? Genuine question. Thanks

[Shikadi]

I'm a pub player and I usually build Sac Stone straight up like on Defiler. Seems to give you the "tankiness" you need as well as enough mana regen to spam. Although I can understand that Nome's would be very nice, I'll probably try that next time.

[MisterLahey]

I usually get sac stone and null stone, great survivability.

[Glorify1]

Glorify, if anything, I think SotM should be a late game luxury

Late game when farm isn't hard to come by and those disables from higher tier items would be more useful?


Mind elaborating? Genuine question. Thanks
Bad animation, no clear line of which it's going outwards, just a stream of blue which on top of looking bad is hard to gauge whether you're going to hit them or not.

[Passthechips]

People are also forgetting that if you can manage to farm SotM around level 10-11 (easily), it boosts the damage early and reduces the cooldown to it's minimum, which means his ultimate comes up much more frequently while retaining the early level mana costs.

[Chloroform1]

:Astrolabe::PlatedGreaves::RingOfTheTeacher::Talis manOfExile::TalismanOfExile: the extra armor does wonders for the team

and :FrostfieldPlate: if the game is long enough.

[ButtSax]

I would argue a Astro before getting the SoTM. More armor+a heal is more beneficial in team fights early on.

[pewpewstar]

With the recent cost increase to Nome's, would you get anything in its place? I kind of like storm spirit because I hate Soul Reaper being so slow :( and possibly get steamboots to compensate. What do you think?

[Andycrapped]

350g isnt that much more. Stick with Nomes.

[Glorify1]

The decision to nerf nomes in the way they did was terrible, mainly because it didn't really nerf the item how it needed to be, just increasing the cost especially in such a minor way isn't going to deter anyone. The problem with the item is it's variability to be run on just about everything except carries and blink initiators.

[Gooya]

I usually go:

:PowerSupply: :NomesWisdom: :VoidTalisman: :EnhancedMarchers: or :PlatedGreaves:

If there's enough time:

:KuldrasSheepstick: :StaffOfTheMaster:

[Headbus]

:NomesWisdom::PlatedGreaves::PowerSupply: <- All of these every game :SacrificialStone::BehemothsHeart::FrostfieldPlate ::BarrierIdol: <- 2 Of these basically every game, sometimes one.

I don't like sotm. I feel it centrifuges him around his ultimate which can be countered by a quick power supply, bkb activation, blink ect.

I much prefer him being able to assist his teamates by having faster heal bombs, barrier idol, slowing as of enemy carries or healing upon death which all those items do.

[wads]

getting a luxury +armor item is better than a +hp item. as you effectively heal yourself for more if you have more armor.

[Glorify1]

getting a luxury +armor item is better than a +hp item. as you effectively heal yourself for more if you have more armor.

Sup nomes?

[Anakha]

Not a fan of Sadist/IH (despite my rather retarded progression due to a misclick early) over stats/aura.

[KinU69]

Rush power supply+nomes, astrolabe, shaman and they are fuked. They will focus you , you will keep healing everybody + doing dmg and in the end you might even be alive with a genocide :D

Aura is always good.

[Gooya]

getting a luxury +armor item is better than a +hp item. as you effectively heal yourself for more if you have more armor.

It depends.

If you build heart, it will reduce your cds, so you will be able to cast your heals more often. Besides, armor works only for physical damage, while HP works for any type.

[Crimzin1]

Less spam.
Lots of posts before this one weren't spam and were well constructed criticism. I'd like to know why you ignored them. To probably answer your reply beforehand, I mean Fuzzywuzzy's posts or anyone debating the aura.

[Angel]

Lots of posts before this one weren't spam and were well constructed criticism. I'd like to know why you ignored them. To probably answer your reply beforehand, I mean Fuzzywuzzy's posts or anyone debating the aura.

When did I even post that?

[Stickyrolls]

Lol Tabako, probably the best SR in the game atm, goes nomes, frostfield. No one in competition goes staff. Even see plenty of guys get inhuman nature for hard farming w/out running out of mana.

[Stickyrolls]

Oh yeah other items I see on him a lot in comp (but not this "premium" guide) shaman headdress, void talisman, sheepstick, and occasionally sac stone and behe heart. All the theory crafting in the world of why items are good or not matters little compared to the fact of the best players getting them.

[Angel]

There's this thing called an edit button.

[Stickyrolls]

Maybe you should use it on your guide.

[MajuiF]

Maybe you should use it on your guide.
Agreed :)

[tacomaster]

nomes wisdom is now horrible, the stats are all 2 lower, damage is 4 less, the armor aura is 1 less, it gives no % mana regen anymore (down from 100%), and the recipe price is upped 400 gold. The only buff is that the heal can now shield those units from an equal amount of damage if their hp caps, this is a nice buff but hardly worth 400 gold and these major nerfs. This item is not very viable right now, I would edit the guide to show this.

[Tisnogud]

Just had a game where i got to max level. Game went quite decent for me but nevertheless in the end i had no chance to survive against :legi::pebb::vind::nigh: and i mean in a 1vs1 not even in a teamfight. Well ok sr is no carry of course with these items :PlatedGreaves::SacrificialStone::BehemothsHeart:: FrostfieldPlate: i thought i could escape at least which was not possible.

Any advice what to get after Boots,Sac, Heart?

[Gooya]

if you got owned by NH, or whatever auto-attacks, i'd suggest a void tallisman.

[LandShark]

get nomes and barbed if our focused.

[GrizmoBlust]

I don't get nomes on sr anymore.

[JC]

I just wanted to say thanks for this, I've found myself quite successful with this build and enjoy playing SR a lot more because of it.

[SilverStars]

Yeah, what do you say now that nomes has been nerfed yet again?

[Angel]

Get nomes because of the increase in heal(~50) per cast of your nuke, not because of the other stats. That's just gravy.

[l33t_rogue]

Is hellflower good item for sr? Maybe better get it instead of sotm? What about harkons and mock?

[Angel]

Silence isn't very useful, and it gives no hitpoints or armor. You'd be better off with sheepstick.

Harkons is bad, you don't do damage via auto attacking.

Mock isn't a bad item, but way too hard to build in a real game.

[strikermodel]

personally I like to get at least 1 level in inhuman nature (between level 2-3 judgment) for the mana it gives when last hitting, which can be helpful if you need mana upkeep for playing a semi baby sitter. it also synergizes well with judgement if you use that for last hitting from time to time.

[Andycrapped]

personally I like to get at least 1 level in inhuman nature for the mana it gives when last hitting, which can be helpful if you need mana upkeep for playing a semi baby sitter. it also synergizes well with judgement if you use that for last hitting from time to time.
Level 10 is the only time pre max stats that you put a pt into inhuman.

[Glorify1]

The mana is completely negligible, and the only time I ever think 'wow, I could use that mana', is when we're pushing hard and I'm spamming on every wave to get it down quickly. This would only be useful with 3-4 points in the skill to cover the mana cost, and since that's completely unacceptable, it's not worth it.

[Fornozo]

As you are discussing the topic of Inhuman nature I would like to say that I usually go for 2-3 points in inhuman nature before I go for the stats. This because with 2 points in Inhuman Nature you can use judgment on a creep wave and if you last hit all of them you get almost all your mana back. Or at least it feels like it. Also sometimes stats aren't needed while mana is.

[Stickyrolls]

Max heal, one in withering, and max inhuman next. The one in withering is for lane harassing. With just 2-3 levels in inhuman you won't run out of mana pushing lanes. If I'm playing with my friend going defiler he will nuke a wave first than I will nuke it and loose 0 mana. Also good for forest farming where you bring 2-3 camps together and use one nuke on it. There is nothing wrong at all with leveling inhuman nature over more than 1 lvl of withering. In fact watch some replays, team 5, load, and kde (best sr players) often level him this way.

To the guy that said he couldn't out carry the nh in his game with sac stone and behe heart: Usually, if I go that route, I will also pick up a mystic vestment, power supply, and void talisman along with those items. During void you will get maybe 2 heal bombs off if you time it right, live longer to use more power supply charges, and the vest ment will reduce incoming magic damage. I've gotten SR to the point where I could solo a 5 man team building him this way. Best game yet went 15-0-11 with 21 charges on my sac stone.

[Anakha]

What are the % level's of HP to successfully one-shot a hero with your ult at each level?

Gathered that sotm-boosted level 3 is 55%, but interested in the others.

[pewpewstar]

What are the % level's of HP to successfully one-shot a hero with your ult at each level?

http://www.allthingshon.com/articles/soul-reaper-ultimate-damage-calculation

[Anakha]

http://www.allthingshon.com/articles/soul-reaper-ultimate-damage-calculation

see:


With staff of the master, if the target would die at 0 magic armor, demonic execution will 1 shot the person regardless of magic armor.

If the person will survive with 1 HP with 0 magic armor it'll get hit by magic armor.

This is a bug and should (NEEDS TO)be fixed but it's definitely worth mentioning that with staff of the master you can 1 shot that 55% magebane who has shamans headdress and 4/4 spell resistance.

[Angel]

Been fixed already.


09-23-2009, 02:11 AM

Is when fenald posted that.

[Damage]

To simplify his ult...
Level 6: Less than 1/4
Level 11: Less than 1/3
Level 16: Less than 2/5
SotM@16: Less than 1/2

SotM moves it up a tier, headdress moves it down a tier.


Anyways, good guide. The SR/Accursed lane is surprisingly one of the best in the game. The two are awesome late game, there's nothing more annoying then a SR with a shield running around in a team fight, two good heals and a mana ring to feed the team mana.

[Glorify1]

SR glacius tops SR accursed imo.

[Droggeltasse]

I always end up with different items on my SR at the end of the game, this makes your itembuild feel to static for me since there are alot of situational items on him.

:ShamansHeaddress: :MysticVestments: :FrostfieldPlate: :KuldrasSheepstick: :SacrificialStone: :BarrierIdol: :Astrolabe:.. are very strong items on SR too in alot of situations.

How much AoE damage has the enemy ?----------------------------> :BarrierIdol:
How much magic damage do they have? ---------------------------> :BarrierIdol: :MysticVestments: :ShamansHeaddress:
How much disable do we have ? ----------------------------------->:FrostfieldPlate: :KuldrasSheepstick:
How much physical damage ? -------------------------------------->:FrostfieldPlate: :VoidTalisman: :HelmOfTheBlackLegio :NomesWisdom: :Astrolabe:
Do we need more heal/staying power ? ----------------------------->:Astrolabe: :NomesWisdom:
Do we face tanky hereos that get stronger over time (:corr::mali:..) ----->:StaffOfTheMaster:
How much are i supposed to carry ? ---------------------------------->:SacrificialStone::BehemothsHeart:

Even things like :TabletOfCommand::Puzzlebox: are arguable in situations, since SR can farm up items the team needs very fast and can need every strg and int he can get.

[deadl3ss]

The amount it costs to used judgement based on the amount of mana you get from inhuman early game is not going to make judgement more spammable. It might give you an extra charge but Im assuming If you are babysitting the longer lane you do not want to be pushing but rather keeping the enemy laners at bay while keeping your lane steady.

The issue is 2 fold.

Midgame-Late when the calm laning phase is over NOONE is going to hang around you for long enough to suffer the wither dot.

Fights happen quickly and end quickly most of the time. If you are fortunate to be chasing some poor soul 1000 clicks away from you and kill him with withering great success, however that is not going to happen as often as the amount of harrasment you dish during the laning phase.

Inhuman is great for spampushing lanes and farming the stacked jungle - which happens mostly after the laning phase if over and you have a decent mana pool.

To sum it up...

The mana costs of inhuman vs. judgement early game are not as good as dot harrasment - and dot harras is not very usefull in chaotic mid-late game teamfights.

[Angel]

and dot harras is not very usefull in chaotic mid-late game teamfights.

Not true. 1% hp is a lot of damage, even if it's only over the course of 10 seconds. 10% of the enemy health is a lot, especially when combined with your nuke+heal combo. Keeps your team up while the enemies die by attrition.

[QKO]

SR glacius tops SR accursed imo.
I think they're both equally strong. Just Accursed has better defense while Glacius has better offense. If anything if you have all 3 of these in your team then it just depends on the other lanes on who you're gonna pair up with who. If you got puppet or CD in the sidelane for some reason then Accursed is the obvious choice to babysit them, while if you got Chronos or Swiftblade then Glacius should be with them.

Putting Accursed+SR mid vs a Soulstealer is by far the best way to be a dick btw.

[Angel]

Yeah, but if you don't break the SS pre-3 he'll just bottle crow and farm via nukes.

[QKO]

Yeah, but if you don't break the SS pre-3 he'll just bottle crow and farm via nukes.
It's actually more retarded than that, everytime SS wants to get near to the creepwaves Accursed can just shield himself, run for SS and force him to defend himself. Then after SS tried to damage Accursed, Accursed can just walk back to get healed by soulreaper. Eventually SS will be doing so bad that both Accursed and Soul Reaper can solo the midlane against him.

[Angel]

More than likely you'll just have SR standing between the wave and SS to force him out of XP range, and accursed shields.

SR would run out of mana in 2 seconds spamming heals for the accursed.

[QKO]

More than likely you'll just have SR standing between the wave and SS to force him out of XP range, and accursed shields.

SR would run out of mana in 2 seconds spamming heals for the accursed.
Also possible, SR can bottle however while Accursed just keeps track at the lane. At level 6 Accursed can just dash for SS to regain full hp.

[Coolcollo]

Withering presence doesn't seem very good, at mid game when its level 4 the most you can expect an enemy hero to have HP wise is like 1.5-2k right? That is only 15-20 damage (it is true damage correct?) per second right? Doesn't really seem like it is great. Early game when people have only about 1k HP it'll only be doing 10 damage per second IF you have it level 4 (considerably less if you don't have it at level 4), that is 4 points for a very mediocre amount of harassing damage early on. The only situation I see it dealing acceptable damage is end game tanks who have stacked a ton of HP, where it could possibly deal damage similar to a mock of brilliance. Seems like once it gets to mid game and end game it would barely cancel out an enemies HP regeneration let alone do significant amounts of damage.

Correct me if I'm wrong about anything above.

I feel the gains from adding stats early on would be more useful.


I prefer to think in percents on this skill rather than numbers. Then enemy is at 100% health and doesn't gain 1% health/s (unless they have behemoth heart). I've stood near the other team while setting up a gank(I was killing neutrals also :)). After about 30seconds they had lost 1/5th health(considering health regen and when I go to pull creeps out). That already is a huge advantage. Especially on tanks rather than low hp carries.

On a funny note I was chasing someone and could not for the life of me hit them. Their health bar was empty and I popped my ult for a kill already. Yes....The Aura killed them. Another one was :mali: was suicide/lifesteal farming in the jungle and I was roaming and :eek: I got a kill for doing nothing. Then he raged. :D

With that said I get the Aura lvl 1 when Mid or Side just because I'm spending maybe 6 minutes near them and that amount of constant damage is amazing. You don't know how many people will stay out of range and loss xp so they don't go below 300hp(I'll run at them and nuke/hit ftw)

[Kcolraw]

I've stood near the other team while setting up a gank(I was killing neutrals also :))
really dumb

always switch aura off when ganking

gotta be playing some dumbass opponents to sit there and not notice the big aura debuff icon on them and 1/5 of their health gone

[commy]

Hey, I just saw a recent dota replay (mym v nirvana i think) where a necrolyte hard carried his team to victory. He just farmed and farmed and ended up with crazy armour and survivability in general. He also go a portal key towards the end.

As I've never play dota before, I was very surprised given I've never seen this ever happen before in hon with soul reaper. My question is whether this sort of thing is even possible in HoN or how successful it could be if it were tried.

On a more general note, I was fairly amazed at the game. I managed to identify behemoth and glacius who were something like 13 levels behind the soul reaper by the end of the game and just bought wards constantly, roaming constantly. The magmus on the other team was exactly the same.

Is it a different play style that allows a hard carry soul reaper, a better play style which allows this, or simply differences between the two games.

[Angel]

Carries in HoN are much stronger than in DotA.

[evotech]

Please do a a write up on how pro teams actually play SR ( max heal / 1 lv in aura, max mana after kills)

[Hermione]

Should update to not include nomes, as it's not really core anymore without the mana regen.

[Von_Moltke]

Just found this guide. My thoughts;

SotM is bad.
Nome's is now bad.
No power supply, but two talismans? <- LOL
No Inhuman Nature till 22-25? <- LOL

The best way to play SR is maxing Judgement and Inhuman Nature first, taking one level in Withering Presence on level two and of course taking Demonic Execution where possible.

As for items, I strongly recommend Power Supply-> Plated Greaves-> Nullstone -> Frostfield.

[BrutalOne]

Just found this guide. My thoughts;

SotM is bad.
Nome's is now bad.
No power supply, but two talismans? <- LOL
No Inhuman Nature till 22-25? <- LOL

The best way to play SR is maxing Judgement and Inhuman Nature first, taking one level in Withering Presence on level two and of course taking Demonic Execution where possible.

As for items, I strongly recommend Power Supply-> Plated Greaves-> Nullstone -> Frostfield.

Maybe better Sac Stone instead Nullstone?

[AryaReiven]

I was looking over this guide and it seemed pretty helpful, but it was posted a long time ago and wasn't edited for months. Is this guide still a good way to build SR?

[Saharez]

I personally find the build to be generally pretty decent, but it doesnt beat building your SR specificly against the lineup you are facing.
for instance a sheep stick can in situations be better than ulti booster, sometimes you got plenty of mana regen due to glacius, then a astrolabe would be better... etc etc etc.

you get the picture, always try to get what item would suit your situation best.

[potoBest]

As for items, I strongly recommend Power Supply-> Plated Greaves-> Nullstone -> Frostfield.
nullstone really isn't an item that you should plan on getting every game--it's a situationally great item which definitely has potential on soul reaper, but not against every team you might come up against

frostfield is similar, not something I'd put in a basic item build

there are a lot of good items on soul reaper, since he can viably use tank items and support items, it's a bad idea to confine yourself to a single build

[djlasseman]

The item build in this guide is completely different from Nigmas big hero guide. Can anyone explain why they are so different?
I mean, Nigma goes power supply -> steam boots -> bracelet -> sac stone. Instead of ring -> plated greaves -> nomes -> sotm.

Nigma doesnt even mention sotm on SR. I've seen some ppl say nomes and sotm is bad now, but if this guide is outdated, why isn't it updated or taken out of premium?

Not my intention to disrespect OP in any way, just liked to know.

[MooseSoup]

The item build in this guide is completely different from Nigmas big hero guide. Can anyone explain why they are so different?
I mean, Nigma goes power supply -> steam boots -> bracelet -> sac stone. Instead of ring -> plated greaves -> nomes -> sotm.

Nigma doesnt even mention sotm on SR. I've seen some ppl say nomes and sotm is bad now, but if this guide is outdated, why isn't it updated or taken out of premium?

Not my intention to disrespect OP in any way, just liked to know.


This guide is WAY old, look at the date.

Nigma's is up to date, follow that one.

[Angel]

Boots -> PS -> mek rush
or
Phase -> PS -> Nomes -> linkens

[redbearrd]

i've been playing a fair bit of SR over the last month or so and i think he's such a great hero. i've ended up carrying the team on a number of occasions, however i like to play him as a semi carry for that lvl 11-16ish period while our hard carry is farming like crazy to take over as the carry.

i usually go PSU > Bracer > Plated > Mystic Vestment > Nomes > sac/frostfield (depends on how my farm is going)

[KongsFather]

Withering Presence is not true or pure damage its DIRECT HP removal if no one has mentioned this before.

[potoBest]

a common build would be 1 point into withering presence early, and then some into inhuman nature. Sadly, withering presence has really lost its one point wonder status with the range reduction, so it's a bit unclear what to do

seems like your only options are straight maxing presence or nature along with nuke, which takes some of the variety out of playing SR

[TillyToker]

I use ring of sorcery instead of gnomes wisdom, the armor helps more at the cost of stats and you get a decent mana pool boost, usually enough to get your mana pool larger than your health, and the 105 mana every 30 sec helps when your spamming skills like a noob. gnomes only gives stats and since he really only has one skill to use the healing doesnt help enough to outweigh the armor bonus.

[TillyToker]

id much rather go with the nuke as first skill, without the heal and damage it is pretty hard to survive power lanes like glacius swift and near impossible to last hit because of his low damage. and id choose stats over inhuman nature any day. the additional bonuses you get from stats are much more effective than mana per kill.

I actually consider inhuman nature to be one of the most useless skills in the game. along with succubus's damage drain and sand wraith's deserted.

[ts808]

holy **** 10 pages.


I usually max 1st and 3rd skill first,amidoinitrong?

[Shizzle_bra]

Wow... Cool story bro.. Srsly wt up wid dat? Link us a replay, I'd rather watch you play well than explain to us how oooooosum you are -_- the fail is strong in this one.


Thank you!!! This guide is amazing and i followed it to the letter. I've only played this hero probably 4 times in my life (2 times in dota over a year ago). And wow!!! I would say im above average skill but by no means pro. Lots of bad luck lately with pubs but o well. Guess i should add more ppl to friends list.


Our scout was pretty dire with the eyes until late game but once farmed up he was ok i guess. I started off baby sitting the magebane in hellbournes bottom lane. Trying to let him last hit, but he wasnt very good at it during the lane phase. Although we did have puppet and swiftblade in our lane. I died a few times carelessly to puppet + spin and the legionnaire was pretty good rushing a quick portal key to harass us.

Usually i get 1-2 bracers but i was rushing sheepstick this time. Once i realised i didnt have bracers so a lil more careful around midgame, it was all over for the other team... I didnt check my score till the end as I usually just have the mini board out showing when heroes come back to life. But i got a few lucky kills with Aura and even a double when tempest caught them with ulti lol. I am really happy as i usually play support!! my new fav hero with Pest! as both are support but can carry if team carry doesnt step up. I could of farmed a lot more but i just hung around healing the team which was definately the better choice. Aura + heal = win.

Check out my gear :)

http://i36.tinypic.com/11b81aw.jpg

I bought in order:
Battery
Steam Boots
Sheepstick
heart
Shruken head

Literally towards the end it was Kraken running around with real low hp whole team chasing us and id be running to help him with aura + heals and we'd end up killing 3 of them LOL. So funny. Poor magebane and scout were like why couldnt i save them like that hehe.

[Anakha]

Damage potential of nuke makes maxing aura first extremely subpar, no matter the situation. A potential 260x5 + 130x5 hp difference every 5 seconds is too good to pass up.

3rd skill is only worse than stats when you can't lasthit, deny or farm relatively consistently.

What's new Chalice like on SR now? (if it hasn't been answered yet)

[thelulz]

Damage potential of nuke makes maxing aura first extremely subpar, no matter the situation. A potential 260x5 + 130x5 hp difference every 5 seconds is too good to pass up.

3rd skill is only worse than stats when you can't lasthit, deny or farm relatively consistently.

What's new Chalice like on SR now? (if it hasn't been answered yet)

Its awesome. Played vs a SR yesterday who used it and all it functions work great. First off it lets you use your heal whenever you feel like it compared to saving it for possible kills or saves, just that is good enough reason to get it since its so cheap. But there is more to it, its like chalice was made for SR's ulti in a situation like: Hero on low hp running - no mana for ulti - chalice - kill - no hp loss.

I lost the game btw because SR did such a great job. Now im just gonna walk my dog and play it myself to see firsthand how it works.

[`x____x]

Staff of the Master...
Premium guide, my ass.

[Angel]

Damage potential of nuke makes maxing aura first extremely subpar, no matter the situation. A potential 260x5 + 130x5 hp difference every 5 seconds is too good to pass up.

You have absolutely no need for sadist anymore because of chalice, and aura is better even without chalice, since sadist is for bad players who can't manage their mana via clarities.

Manadrain is good on witch too, right?

[Calad]

While the presentation of the guide is nice, it is in no way "premium" as this is very outdated. Lets get a new one together? :soulr:

That said SR:Nature != WS:Mana drain. SR needs help with his farm because he is item dependant unlike WS, who just needs striders and maybe a braclet and hes good to go. 2 levels of nature at 4 and 8 are a nice help because you can't spam blood chalice nearly as often as youd like. The aura is effective when people have a large HP pool, as such there is little reason to get it past level 1 early on, you could even go nature at 2 and 4 and just start aura at 8-12.

[Drasha]

This guide needs images displaying skill ranges and 3 or more actual replays.

[Stickyrolls]

You have absolutely no need for sadist anymore because of chalice, and aura is better even without chalice, since sadist is for bad players who can't manage their mana via clarities.

Manadrain is good on witch too, right?


Yes actual competitive players are bad and you are good LMAO! Managing mana is one thing and ricing with him is another.

[Donn]

Yes actual competitive players are bad and you are good LMAO! Managing mana is one thing and ricing with him is another.

are you seriously calling Angel a bad player? :|

yes, sadist was an okay skill, but with the introduction of chalice its almost completely useless.

[Stickyrolls]

Have you played soul reaper with the new chalice? Still good but its not an infinite mana source. The skill is also good for pushing. Allows you to continually push lanes and keep your mana up.

Edit: not against taking aura in lane but picking up sadist is better then stats. Keeps you from buying a mana regen item like nomes and more hp/damage reduction items so you can live long enough to be useful.

[Windburn]

What's the latest on item builds for SR, taking into consideration the chalice nerf?

Could anyone offer any item advice for someone rather new to SR? Had some marked success with him last night via a random pick, but items were largely based on theory crafting obviously, and not on any personal experience.

[Halftime]

Bad guide with a bad skill build and item build.

[Llama]

Funny how much this guide has changed (it was the first premium iirc)

Items are still trololo though.