general Guide by experienced dotaplayer

[Kalb]

Hi, since i am playing DotA for many many years, and i am playing it in closed elite communities, i wanted to state out some things, that i see ppl doing wrong over and over again.

First of all: Abyssal scull(vladmirs) is crap. In DotA, it makes at least a little sence, since you cant stack orbs, but in HoN, every other lifeleech item makes more sense. Furthermore, its crap for every carry hero. If you get this item, make sure you are supporter, to spend the aura for your mates. If you are playing heros like chronos, predator, scout etc. dont get it. Get dmg, not stupid lifeleech, you dont get any advance from, cause you leech without dmg is so low, its not worth it anyway!

2. The sacraficial Stone (Bloodstone) is useless by now. In old dota versions, it was very strong item to own public games (in real dota games, having 2 teams forcing each other, you wouldnt get it anyway), but in newer versions its not giving you anything, you need. The hp/mana boost, is easier to get, if you go for usefull items, like shrunken head(bkb), NullStone (linkens), heart and staff of the master (agha).
For real, the Stone is giving you and especially your team, nothing. Getting hex or frostfield (shivas) will do much better. You need to help your team, there is no use in getting a nonhelpful item.

3. WTF IS UP WITH HELM OF THE BLACK LEGION (Vanguard)???
In EVERY game i see ppl getting this item. what for?? especially useless on carry heros like pestilence. Every pestilence i see, is getting vanguard. JUST DONT. the item is so overrated. Get a stoutshield at start (250 gold) and thats it. you block 20 dmg with 60% chance, more then enough. The HP boost of vanguard is money waste, you can get more useful item (look point before), to boost your hp. Furthermore, you can sell the shield without much money loss, in the midgame. Take Legionaire as example: you can rape the woods and be hard on lane just having the shield. The 40 Dmg block is useless in lategames, so why waste money for it. Simply get a shaman headress(hood) and go for armor afterwards, to get harder. This will block way more dmg, then 40 blocked (wtf). conclusion: dont ever get the helm!!

4. if you are not sure, or dont agree, on the three most common mistakes i mentioned, you can simply walk through some dota forums on
www.dotaportal.com (http://www.dotaportal.com) (very nice mathematic guides there) or www.dotapickup.net (http://www.dotapickup.net). I dont wanne copy it, so i just give you the links there.


Coming to gameplay issues:

1. WARDS! You simply need them. Warding is the task of supportive heros. To mention some: Pyromancer, voodoo jester etc. Basically all caster heros, having disables and being very dependant on their skills to own someeone. Carry heros shall NEVER buy any supportive stuff. They need to spend all their money to get items and rape the other team; Chronos, predator, scout, moon queen etc. These heros will decide games for you. so give them all hero kills, if possible, and let them have the creepkills on lane.

2. stats dont matter at all, and tell NOTHING about how someone plays. You can have Glacius (epic support) with 0:12 stats, and still be the best player in the game. For example, you go glacius - swiftblade lane. Swiftblade gets 5 kills in 15 minutes, you die 5 times, cause while you 2 attack te other heros on your lane, they focus you out. You die, your carry kills, everything is, at it should. You can be sure, swiftblade will rape hard ---> good chance you win.

3. DONT GET BOTTLE AT START!!!!
hell no, i see this in EVERY game, by almost EVERY player (except the good ones). Reason: you get some hp regen at start, and let the bottle (if you realy think you need one) come to with chicken, which is supposed to be bought by support heros. If you get bottle, you are weak. You start prolly with having 500 hp. If you get some stats, you can have 650 easy, and you deal more dmg. This causes you, to be able to deny and lasthit a lot better. Who cares about the manaregen, the bottle gives you, you dont wanne use mana at start anyway!
Reason, for not using mana: if you do it, you push the lane. This causes you, to be stuck at the opponents tower -> you dont get farm, your foe gets freefarm, without the use of mana, and he is able to deny creeps at his tower, so you dont get any xp.
So rather get some hp regen and stats, instead of getting a bottle.



So, these are SOME things i can think of right now.
i hope you take some essence of it.

[D00D1]

i think the problem is, that you need the experience to play the way you mentioned. i never played dota before playing HoN, i think the things you mention evolve naturally when players get better. i for my case really like the black legion helm, although i prefer to have my boots ready at first. if i go thunderbringer mid for example, i really like the bottle, and can fill it up with runes, what is wrong about that?

[Kalb]

if i go thunderbringer mid for example, i really like the bottle, and can fill it up with runes, what is wrong about that?


as i mentioned in my post before, you are weak on lane. you wont be able to creep well on lane, and if your opponent is harrasing you, you need to get runes over and over again. If you use your spells to harras him, you are pretty fast oom and his mana battery will solve his problems. You just cant use the bottle in the first minutes, when focus on creeping. No use in wasting level 1 spells on heroes.
You skill chain lighning, the passiv, and then you go 3 times the bolt (single nuke). so with level 4-5 you can start nuking. by then you will have much more farm, when going for stats at startup, instead of bottle, you wont use till then anyway. (see the pushing point giving your foe easy farm and denies at his tower)
when having the farm done till level 4-5 you can easy get 600 to get the bottle on lane.

so concluded: you farm more with stats. you are not that fragile, and you wont use the mana till your nuke is on a respective level, so why get bottle reg then. (think of your xp loss when you go gathering runes).
I am not saying bottle is crap, just as first item its of no use.

[Duke]

u mean that is better to avoid rune check in the first levels (maybe 1-5) to avoid XP loss?.....

i'm a little bit confused, good players in hon says that u have ALWAYS to rune check every 2 minutes (and if i am mid lane i do it every time), but it seem u are saying the opposite.


and sorry for my crappy english ^_^

[SHJordan]

Nice tips. Expeccially the last mana one...

[fmillar]

Good points, IMO. Thanks for taking the time.

fmillar

[Reonhato]

first your points would be valid for dota but this isnt dota. first abyssal is fairly cheap stacks lifesteal and provoids a 15% dmg boost, which is massive lategame, it is the only item that lets you stack lifesteal and should be taken by at least 1 person in every team

2nd helm of the BL works different here then in dota (at least ive been told) the dmg blocked works last not first, thus is worth so much more. plus its cheap and gives you a great boost early.

last, i dont know what games you have been playing but i rarely see anyone except thunders and rune whores take a bottle first, i see more people take boots then bottle

o and also sac stone is a must get item for electrician, i would hardly call it useless

[Sunforger]

I don't agree on the Helm of Black Legion. This item is quite good in a pub metagame because of the following reasons:
1) You can afford to buy the Shield at start, it helps a lot vs small harrassing
2) Buying Lifetube fast allows you to stay in a lane almost forever against pubbies.They don't know how to do skill combos to instagib you.
3) 300 HP helps many squishy heroes
4) Blocking 40 damage is useful in pub because many opponents will be severely underfarmed and will do little damage

I agree however that this item is almost useless in a competitive game.

[Puchi]

1) I agree about bottle, dont get it in the begining of the game as your
first item. regen items + stats is bettre no questions asked.

2) I don't agree about early runecontroll vs experiance is a something that
you dont want to have, therefore i make sure in the begining of the game
that one of the runespots is warded. a haste/invis almost allways results
in a kill if played correctly

3) I agree about Vanguard, it does not help the team or you, you can get hp
with other items, armor > block, if you want bettre hp regan its bettre to get
a shamans headdress(hood) or just stop with the lifetube to get a sustainer later.

4) Wards = yes please! the team with the best vision over the other team
will most likly win the game.

5) Dying by being the best is a very good strategy allthough i dont think
you should ever try to die by purpuse. one of my favourite heroes is
Tempest(enigma) and he is if played correctly argubly the best support
hero in the game, The game that i consider my best tempest game ever i
ended up with 2/8/45, 45 assists out of 58 kills and the most of the
otherkills where when i was dead and during laning.

6) as for Abyss skull and SS i think that they have a value in the game
Abyssskull is great on a supporter or semi-carry/ganker due to the dmg
increaseand if you can help your carry with some dmg and lifesteal its a
good item to get but otherwise dont get it.

Great post btw, should be sticky or prem ;)

[Yoncore]

I don't agree on the Helm of Black Legion. This item is quite good in a pub metagame because of the following reasons:
1) You can afford to buy the Shield at start, it helps a lot vs small harrassing
2) Buying Lifetube fast allows you to stay in a lane almost forever against pubbies.They don't know how to do skill combos to instagib you.
3) 300 HP helps many squishy heroes
4) Blocking 40 damage is useful in pub because many opponents will be severely underfarmed and will do little damage

I agree however that this item is almost useless in a competitive game.


You're an idiot.

[Yoncore]

Hi,

...


i hope you take some essence of it.


Hey Kalb thanks for the post.. most of it clarrifying - please IGNORE THE NOOBS IN THIS FORUM .... Everything you posted was right. ...but youknow this :)

[ElementUser]

The hp/mana boost, is easier to get, if you go for usefull items, like shrunken head(bkb), NullStone (linkens), heart and staff of the master (agha).

For real, the Stone is giving you and especially your team, nothing. Getting hex or frostfield (shivas) will do much better. You need to help your team, there is no use in getting a nonhelpful item.


Really? Only if you think you can farm up 2100 without being delayed a lot by the enemy.

Also, Sacrificial Stone restores more HP/Mana for every charge you have, so in that way it does benefit your team. Sacrificial Stone is great on Electrician & Torturer now, not as good on the rest (but still viable)


Bottle first : hell no, i see this in EVERY game, by almost EVERY player (except the good ones).

I only see this for solo mid enemies (and I own them hard unless they get really lucky with rune spawns). And sometimes sidelane enemies, but they're even more useless :/

[Satyr]

Also, Sacrificial Stone restores more HP/Mana for every charge you have, so in that way it does benefit your team.
The new Sacrificial Stone doesn't restore HP with every charge :]

[ElementUser]

The new Sacrificial Stone doesn't restore HP with every charge :]

Woops, I meant for the team. +25 HP restore/charge to all heroes in 1700 AoE on death

I know it doesn't give you +HP regen on yourself anymore :(

[Melchizedek]

The new Sacrificial Stone doesn't restore HP with every charge :]It restores health and mana to allies upon death. Which will happen much more often now, with no HP regen! =)

EDIT: Ninja'd

[Kalb]

well, why would i, or my team focus the one having a scrifical stone?
he is no threat, cause he supports usually. The item is no threat itself, so i go straight for killing the carry heros. If the supporter has HEX instead, he can disable me, while i try to beat the carry up. Will help him much more.



other posts: abyssal skull: as i mentioned. its ok on support heros. but totally useless on carry heros. Just get a caster in ur back carry that item, and your fine. The 15% is only good in lategame, so why would i get it. The "its cheapshit" doesnt count at all, cause cheap items are only good for a fast startup. later on, you farm fast enough, to get more expensive items. Lifeleech is only effective, when you already have enough dmg, because its always %.


next: Runcontrol.
maybe i didnt point out correctly, what i meant. Runecontrol is, ofc, very important. Every 2 minutes, a new rune spawns, it has to be checked. Very often it is more useful, to check it from the sidelanes, since there willbe one hero going for check, and one hero staying on lane gathering the XP. If you leave the midlane to check a rune (which you should do often) make sure, you gank the sidelanes, when u get one. This is the reason, why its best, to send ganker heros in the mid. (succubus is best excample).


- ofc dying on purpose aint the way to go -.- i hope no one got it that way. But, if you play supporter, and you die right after you helped your carry killing a foes hero, its acceptable. Unless the other carry got the kill, which would make it even out :P

[dreamex]

This topic is so poorly written my eyes might be bleeding.

Also, HotBL still blocks damage before armor, not after.

[Kalb]

This topic is so poorly written my eyes might be bleeding.



very much quality in that post. congratulation to just saying nothing important.

[JIDIz]

I don't agree on the Helm of Black Legion. This item is quite good in a pub metagame because of the following reasons:
1) You can afford to buy the Shield at start, it helps a lot vs small harrassing
2) Buying Lifetube fast allows you to stay in a lane almost forever against pubbies.They don't know how to do skill combos to instagib you.
3) 300 HP helps many squishy heroes
4) Blocking 40 damage is useful in pub because many opponents will be severely underfarmed and will do little damage

I agree however that this item is almost useless in a competitive game.


What the hell you know about competitive playing ? ROFL, you are simply FAIL FAIL FAIL !

[ElementUser]

well, why would i, or my team focus the one having a scrifical stone?
he is no threat, cause he supports usually. The item is no threat itself, so i go straight for killing the carry heros. If the supporter has HEX instead, he can disable me, while i try to beat the carry up. Will help him much more.

- ofc dying on purpose aint the way to go -.- i hope no one got it that way. But, if you play supporter, and you die right after you helped your carry killing a foes hero, its acceptable. Unless the other carry got the kill, which would make it even out :P

So you're saying Electrician isn't a threat, and neither is Torturer. And they can't disable you. Right?

[emallson]

This topic is so poorly written my eyes might be bleeding.

Also, HotBL still blocks damage before armor, not after.
It's the sad truth. He had so much good to say too. It basically sums up everything I've learned ghosting these forums. But in a more poorly written form.

The Verdict: Read it!

[Kalb]

So you're saying Electrician isn't a threat, and neither is Torturer. And they can't disable you. Right?


not realy. Torturer is ofc VERY much of threat. But believe me, he is more of a threat, when having staff of the master in his inventory, then a Ssc stone :)

elec needs a shaman headress and shrunken head which makes overall of 5950 gold. The sac stone is 5050. You wanne make a bet, who is harder to kill?
900 gold are not that much, and the headress + head combo is more effective, i am sure.

[Elerion]

The single redeeming factor for Abyssal Skull is that it builds on items that may be beneficial during the laning phase. Some agi/str melee heroes with strong early game spells (like Madman, Swift, Armodon, old Kraken) can do worse than starting with Ring of the Teacher in a dual lane, picking up a Ring of Regen from the outpost, and then cheaply upgrading into Vlad's in the midgame.

That's the only redeeming factor in a game where orb effect limits no longer apply, though.

[dreamex]

not realy. Torturer is ofc VERY much of threat. But believe me, he is more of a threat, when having staff of the master in his inventory, then a Ssc stone :)

elec needs a shaman headress and shrunken head which makes overall of 5950 gold. The sac stone is 5050. You wanne make a bet, who is harder to kill?
900 gold are not that much, and the headress + head combo is more effective, i am sure.

I'm pretty sure the Torturer who's doing continuous AoE damage to you indefinitely is more powerful than the one who's doing continous AoE damage to you for 10 seconds.

Electrician does NOT need Shrunken Head, I don't know where you're getting that from. He needs Headdress because he's a good Barrier Idol carrier but his primary purpose in team fights is purge + disable + tank. Shrunken Head won't help that purpose at all, Frostfield Plate is a much better choice, as is Sacrificial Stone.

[theqat]

I'm pretty sure the Torturer who's doing continuous AoE damage to you indefinitely is more powerful than the one who's doing continous AoE damage to you for 10 seconds.

Electrician does NOT need Shrunken Head, I don't know where you're getting that from. He needs Headdress because he's a good Barrier Idol carrier but his primary purpose in team fights is purge + disable + tank. Shrunken Head won't help that purpose at all, Frostfield Plate is a much better choice, as is Sacrificial Stone.

I think his point is that without SH, Elec will simply get stunned out of Static Grip.

[dreamex]

I think his point is that without SH, Elec will simply get stunned out of Static Grip.

Which is fine because electrician has infinite mana and should be happy to absorb stuns and skills from enemies. That's his role as a disabler/tank.

Shrunken Head is picked up on CARRIES so they can continue to do damage while attempting to offload attention from themselves.

Tanks do not wish to offload attention from themselves, they want to absorb as much of it as possible.

[Kalb]

I'm pretty sure the Torturer who's doing continuous AoE damage to you indefinitely is more powerful than the one who's doing continous AoE damage to you for 10 seconds.

Electrician does NOT need Shrunken Head, I don't know where you're getting that from. He needs Headdress because he's a good Barrier Idol carrier but his primary purpose in team fights is purge + disable + tank. Shrunken Head won't help that purpose at all, Frostfield Plate is a much better choice, as is Sacrificial Stone.

so, you think sacstone is giving you the ability to do much more dmg then one with masterstaff. very short sighted.

you got a point when saying shrunken head might not be the best idea, since he wants to tank. Stil shrunken head is not bad on elec, since you can actually use ur disable. If you just get disabled right after using the disable, you mention urself, and afterwards your teammates getting attacked, you tank nothing. wont help your team at all.

[bigmit37]

You're an idiot.

What's up with rude people on this forum.

[Yoncore]

you got a point when saying shrunken head might not be the best idea, since he wants to tank. Stil shrunken head is not bad on elec, since you can actually use ur disable. If you just get disabled right after using the disable, you mention urself, and afterwards your teammates getting attacked, you tank nothing. wont help your team at all.

Just had a game before as elec where because of a useless behem not innitiating - I had to.... gotta love pubs (this was 1800+ as well) I would run in and grab and throw on shield and be instantly disabled out effectively making me useless for the rest of the 5v5 which was over before the cooldown was off. Shrunken head would of been perfect but instead I was going shivas - making me alot more useless... Every time I'd run in and act as a meatshield but it wasn't enough for allys to capitalise on. As always I guess it the item choice depends on the situation.

[Satyr]

It restores health and mana to allies upon death. Which will happen much more often now, with no HP regen! =)

EDIT: Ninja'd
it doesnt restore mana upon death. but nvm :]

[ElementUser]

not realy. Torturer is ofc VERY much of threat. But believe me, he is more of a threat, when having staff of the master in his inventory, then a Ssc stone :)

elec needs a shaman headress and shrunken head which makes overall of 5950 gold. The sac stone is 5050. You wanne make a bet, who is harder to kill?
900 gold are not that much, and the headress + head combo is more effective, i am sure.

Actually, if you do the math, Torturer only deals an additional 33 damage/second with the Staff of the Master upgrade. Factoring in natural hero resistance of 25%, he does approximately 25 more damage/second to heroes. It`s not that drastic of an upgrade, but it doesn`t provide Torturer what he needs that Sacrificial Stone does: mana regen (and lots of it after a few ganks/team fights). Plus a consequence to the enemies if they focus you & you die (the AoE heal)

At the Electrician point: yes, turn on Shrunken Head so that the other nukes/disables gets redirected towards your allies! The only good thing about Shrunken Head is guaranteeing that enemy won`t be escaping for 4.75 seconds, but that`s about it. It defeats the purpose of Electrician`s role, which is a tank.

And yes Satyriasis, I just noticed it doesn`t restore mana upon death anymore....:(