Why are people so bad at playing Behe?

[Apollexis]

i'm kind of disgusted at some of the builds i've seen.

My biggest complaint would be why people don't max out Heavy weight first, Getting one rank of fissure and slam, the reason for doing so is it gives you more burst damage the only catch is you have to be ontop of them

Since I get alot of critiscism on my skill build, Heres an elaborate review of why it's better.

Skill build.


Fissure

Action
Target Dual Position
Type
All Other Units
Type: Magic
Range: 1,200
Cast Time: 1.2 Seconds
Mana Cost: 125 / 140 / 155 / 170
Cooldown: 15.0 Seconds
Required Level: 1 / 3 / 5 / 7
Activation
Deals 125 / 175 / 225 / 275 Magic Damage to each target in a line and stuns them for 1 / 1.25 / 1.5 / 1.75 second(s). Leaves impassable mound of terrain for 8 seconds.




Enrage

Action
Target Self
Cast Time: 1.0 Seconds
Mana Cost: 50
Cooldown: 7.0 Seconds
Required Level: 1 / 3 / 5 / 7
Activation
Applies Enraged to self for 14 seconds or until your next attack.
Enraged Effects
50 / 100 / 150 / 200% Base Damage



Heavyweight

Causes the Behemoth to shake the earth with each spell he casts, dealing damage and stunning nearby opponents.
Action
Passive
Required Level: 1 / 3 / 5 / 7
On spellcast
Deals 25 / 45 / 75 / 115 Magic Damage and stuns for 0.3 / 0.7 / 1.2 / 1.5 seconds in 280 radius around self.




Shockwave

The Behemoth slams the ground with all his might, causing a devastating shockwave around him. The shockwave ricochets off nearby enemies, effectively increasing the damage dealt based on the number of nearby enemy units.
Action
Self Position
Type
Enemy Units And Corpses
Type: Magic
Cast Time: 0.7 Seconds
Mana Cost: 145 / 205 / 265
Cooldown: 150.0 / 130.0 / 110.0 Seconds
Required Level: 6 / 11 / 16
Activation
Deals 200 / 275 / 350 Superior Magic Damage to enemy units in a 500 radius around self. Deals 35 / 45 / 65 additional Magic Damage for each additional enemy unit in range and 17.5 / 22.5 / 32.5 additional Magic Damage for each additional corpse in range.





This holds alot of contrevorsy, People always think maxing fissure is the best. When quite frankly, It's not. It's not even comparable.

Here's the skill build most people go by level 7


(4) Fissure
(0) Enrage
(2) Heavy weight
(1) Shockwave

The grand total of doing this damage correctly meaning your close enough for shock wave to activate is 560
The total stun time on the combo would be 2.0 seconds


This is not including bonus damage from creeps from ulti, just base damage and adding shock wave.


Now Using the correct Skill build from level 7

(1) Fissure
(1) Enrage
(4) Heavy weight
(1) Shockwave

The total for this combination would be 670
The total stun duration for this combo would be 4.5 seconds (not including fissures stun time cause it doesn't stack)

Once again not adding damage in for creeps, But it should be clearly evident why maxing heavy weight is just much more viable.



Then i see people getting phase boots instead of Striders and getting phase boots over portal key first.

I don't know every ones build but my personal is bottle first, striders, then roam till i get a portal key. How do you play behe?

[Nuffing]

People play heroes differently, there's nothing that says you have the rights to stop them.
I like playing valk with pk for instance :)

[Dsmk]

so you basically like throwing?

[Pogona]

If you're such an expert, write a guide.

But I have a feeling that you're not as much of an expert as you make yourself out to be.

[saucebrune]

Fixed it: why are people (read the guy in the last game i played) so bad at playing behe.

QQ master gonna QQ

[Apollexis]

If you're such an expert, write a guide.

But I have a feeling that you're not as much of an expert as you make yourself out to be.
Theirs really no cookie cutter behe guide yet?

[sk1llz4]

People play heroes differently, there's nothing that says you have the rights to stop them.
I like playing valk with pk for instance :)
Troll is apparent.

[Munchkin]

pkey on valk is actually pretty decent.

[HollowMask]

First of all, any player who always gets atriders is a noob. There isn't only one way to play a hero, and a bottle on him is just as bad. You max fissure followed by heavy weight, and you farm an arcane ring. This allows you to potentially fissure away at mid lane so I the three guys camping it can't push, giving you free farm for port key. Then procede to farm resto stone and gg.

[Apollexis]

First of all, any player who always gets atriders is a noob. There isn't only one way to play a hero, and a bottle on him is just as bad. You max fissure followed by heavy weight, and you farm an arcane ring. This allows you to potentially fissure away at mid lane so I the three guys camping it can't push, giving you free farm for port key. Then procede to farm resto stone and gg.

You won't have port key near fast enough. You have to be the initiator on behemoth, An arcane ring isn't bad but odds are your not in a lane were you can farm all that well, by the 20 minute mark you'll probally have boots and an arcane ring and half way to your portal key, were you could have your port key, half of your spell shards, bottle and striders.

And I didnt say striders on every hero, It's just really good with behemoth. Grab the runes every time their up, gank from level 3 or 5 depending on your hero comp, and just keep their carrys under control.


TL: dR, Portkey is more important then your arcane ring.

[sk1llz4]

pkey on valk is actually pretty decent.
It is 2150 gold. A lot of money which for valk can be more then a 1/3 of a way towards a :FrostwolfsSkull: or 1/2 a way towards :GeometersBane:, something she would benefit from much more. And you can build her skill set so that u max Call and Leap first with 1 lvl in Javelin, since the stun is 5s on all levels, so you increase your mobility early game.
Getting it as a lux item, i could understand to an extent, but as core, is just unwise imo.

[gaydads]

First of all, any player who always gets atriders is a noob.

First of all, you are an idiot. Striders is perfectly fine if you're going to roam.

[RedLobster]

First of all, you are an idiot. Striders is perfectly fine if you're going to roam.

Hah , im sure you just fried his mind with ''roam''.

[Apollexis]

Updated first post on why you should max heavy weight first with 1 rank enrage and 1 rank fissure.

[lDaRkNeSsl]

to be fair, behemoth isnt a easy hero to master, especially when becomes to correctly use the fissure, it requires a lot of timing and vision to block the heros etc...
i just feel sad when ppl fail at ult with him, and thats really the point of why ppl are bad with behe

[Apollexis]

to be fair, behemoth isnt a easy hero to master, especially when becomes to correctly use the fissure, it requires a lot of timing and vision to block the heros etc...
i just feel sad when ppl fail at ult with him, and thats really the point of why ppl are bad with behe

From recent games I've seen people just play him way to passively, Behe has to initiate the fight, your team just has to be ready to go in, when you see 3 + heroes stacked, tell your team to follow you immediately and go in with no hesitation, besides the fact behe can kill a whole team depending on creeps dead and present, your team can arrive in the 4.5 seconds of stun time you've providede to clean up after you. Even if you do die you've by far come out on top for your team.

[Anakha]

Because as a level 7 Behemoth, walking up next to my target instead of using Fissure to stun and block them off for 6 seconds from running away from danger will clearly give me better results. LOL

[Apollexis]

Because as a level 7 Behemoth, walking up next to my target instead of using Fissure to stun and block them off for 6 seconds from running away from danger will clearly give me better results. LOL
Few points
1) I didn't say blocking wasn't viable.
2) Striders. If you can't come up from behind one of the enemy heroes with striders then you have bigger problems.
3) Block off a predator, and feed him a double kill. Blocking is not always the Most effecient option.
4) Runes, Invis, Haste. It seems almost self explanitory.
5) Your trying to feed your carry kills, you'd be a fool to be doing this stuff by your self

[California]

the skill build you have requires you to have an early pk or involves ganks that need very close proximity. Yes the damage outcome and stun is much greater but it's unlikely at lvl 7 you will always land those perfect stuns. 280 radius is really easy to avoid

[Anakha]

Few points
1) I didn't say blocking wasn't viable.
2) Striders. If you can't come up from behind one of the enemy heroes with striders then you have bigger problems.
3) Block off a predator, and feed him a double kill. Blocking is not always the Most effecient option.
4) Runes, Invis, Haste. It seems almost self explanitory.
5) Your trying to feed your carry kills, you'd be a fool to be doing this stuff by your self

1. so you advocate an inferior skill build for the best way a behe can contribute effectively. context, learn it.
2. striders do not change the position of the enemy hero.
3. context, learn it.
4. if you rely on the effects of a rune to put out a possible 100 more total damage out on one hero, that's a sign your build is ****.
5. context, learn it.

[Yoda``]

I go 1-3-2-1-1-4-1-3-...

[Apollexis]

1. so you advocate an inferior skill build for the best way a behe can contribute effectively. context, learn it.
2. striders do not change the position of the enemy hero.
3. context, learn it.
4. if you rely on the effects of a rune to put out a possible 100 more total damage out on one hero, that's a sign your build is ****.
5. context, learn it.

1. I advocate a build that gives much more damage and stun time, It may be out of your thinking capacity but you can still block with a fissure, land a enrage ( 1.5 s stun 115 extra magic damage) then ulti( 1.5 sec stun, 200 magic damage, +115 extra)

You're being unreasonable and close minded, Play how you want, I only proved that it does infact do more damage spell for spell.

2. Adapt, Come up from behind a hero, I don't remember the last time I got ganked by some one I could see coming tbh.

3. You're being unreasonable you're build has plenty of contexts that it's just as bad in.

4. Not relying, But the odds of you getting a rune to gank are decently high, But my build doesn't require it, It does how ever rerequire you to use your brain and adapt instead of being close minded and using the same old tactics.

Not to mention, in an early team fight you'll be able to do much more damage wide spread then if you were to do the opposing build.

5. Saying context learn it seems to just be an out for your inability to explain why your build is supposed to be better.

[TRYTROUSERS]

slam stats
bfury
s&y
crit
mkb
heart
treads
GODLIKE :O

[Apollexis]

slam stats
bfury
s&y
crit
mkb
heart
treads
GODLIKE :O
I don't speak Dota

On a serious note I remember seeing a behe with riftshards once, 1.5k crits ftlolz

[bleek]

When you stop facing people who are mentally challenged you will find that your build is vastly inferior to the standard build. Most teams will prevent you from getting close and behe is best at defensively supporting from range, making maxing fissure superior.

[TheHammer3]

the only catch is you have to be ontop of them


That is an absolutely massive catch. Especially before you have your pk. Plus, dying every 3 minutes trying to sit on top of somebody at level 7 with behe is not going to help you get that PK.

A big reason we won this game is because their behe didn't have a pk until it was too late 34175227

[Apollexis]

When you stop facing people who are mentally challenged you will find that your build is vastly inferior to the standard build. Most teams will prevent you from getting close and behe is best at defensively supporting from range, making maxing fissure superior.
You could be right, I really don't have the experience yet to tell you other wise, I'm only at 1635 Atm, Normally by the first few kills, I have my portal key 15 or so minutes in, By then i'm level 8 or 9 and them stopping me from porting in really is irrelevant because It just wont happen.

[Apollexis]

That is an absolutely massive catch. Especially before you have your pk. Plus, dying every 3 minutes trying to sit on top of somebody at level 7 with behe is not going to help you get that PK.

A big reason we won this game is because their behe didn't have a pk until it was too late 34175227

I don't know why I'm not having this problem, Perhaps i'm getting really lucky or maybe my friends are just a step ahead of me but i'm almost always able to come from the back and or just run infront of them, Ulti, Enrage, Fissure, It just has not been a problem for me ever to get within 280 range of them, Ontop of that theirs been many a time were ive used blink and enrage just to stun the enemy to allow my team mate to kill them.

[MR_BIRD]

I don't know why I'm not having this problem, Perhaps i'm getting really lucky or maybe my friends are just a step ahead of me but i'm almost always able to come from the back and or just run infront of them, Ulti, Enrage, Fissure, It just has not been a problem for me ever to get within 280 range of them, Ontop of that theirs been many a time were ive used blink and enrage just to stun the enemy to allow my team mate to kill them.
if I see a behemoth coming behind me, I will throw everything on him and make sure he's dead before he comes near me.
and also, you need to know behe is a melee support hero (before he gets his pk) so he has a big potential of being harassed by any range based hero. Your range stun is the only power since you can't even get closed to any of them. Learn to play son.

[Apollexis]

if I see a behemoth coming behind me, I will throw everything on him and make sure he's dead before he comes near me.
and also, you need to know behe is a melee support hero (before he gets his pk) so he has a big potential of being harassed by any range based hero. Your range stun is the only power since you can't even get closed to any of them. Learn to play son.
Roaming? How could you possibly get harassed roaming? if your ganking in a 3v2 lane they slow you get on top of them and enrage, then fissure/ ulti if nessacary odds are it wont be. I'm just, I'm having a hard time understanding were I would be harassed.

[TheOtherOne]

This holds alot of contrevorsy, People always think maxing fissure is the best. When quite frankly, It's not. It's not even comparable.

Not even comparable? 1-1-4-1 gives 110 more damage when your ult is up and when you chain all 3 skills in melee range. 4-1-1-1 gives 150 more damage and 0.75s more stun time from long range on a 15 sec cd. You're trading between higher total combo damage every 150 seconds and higher long-range single spell damage every 15 seconds.

1-1-4-1 can be better in some cases. 4-1-1-1 can be better in other cases. Most importantly, they are definitely comparable.

[Apollexis]

Not even comparable? 1-1-4-1 gives 110 more damage when your ult is up and when you chain all 3 skills in melee range. 4-1-1-1 gives 150 more damage and 0.75s more stun time from long range on a 15 sec cd. You're trading between higher total combo damage every 150 seconds and higher long-range single spell damage every 15 seconds.

1-1-4-1 can be better in some cases. 4-1-1-1 can be better in other cases. Most importantly, they are definitely comparable.
I've been rebuttled. You're definatley correct and I can agree to those points.

[knowitall]

You could be right, I really don't have the experience yet to tell you other wise, I'm only at 1635 Atm, Normally by the first few kills, I have my portal key 15 or so minutes in, By then i'm level 8 or 9 and them stopping me from porting in really is irrelevant because It just wont happen.

You're farming too much. At this point (with the now really cheap cost of Ring of Sorcery), RoS might be a better option pre-portal key. You have to be prepared to play a non-blinking Behemoth for up to 30 minutes in a real, competitive game. That's the real problem with Behemoth and this is what I had hoped this thread was about. Too many Behemoths think that can't play without their blink so they waste all their early game potential farming.

Also, multiply Fissure's damage by 2,3,4, or 5, because you should be hitting multiple heroes in any team-oriented clash.


That is an absolutely massive catch. Especially before you have your pk. Plus, dying every 3 minutes trying to sit on top of somebody at level 7 with behe is not going to help you get that PK.

A big reason we won this game is because their behe didn't have a pk until it was too late 34175227

I would say that it had more to do with us losing every single teamfight ever, but it was an interesting game. :D

[Scawt]

Standard behe build does 2 seconds of stun?

Well, a level four fissure does 1.75 seconds, and the stun from heavyweight as you ult is an additional 0.7 seconds of stun. So it's actually 2.5 seconds of stun.

Oh and also you don't have to have your PK by level 7 to achieve this. :D

[Kudryavka]

Increased stun time and damage on higher level fissure. There is absolutely no question that 4-1-1-1 is better for dealing damage with Behe. The reason you might leave Fissure at 1 is for THE MANA COST. 1-1-4-1 is decent because you can fissure block more often, not because you do more damage.

[santa420]

on behe i max stats+ fissure. get chalice, post haste, max a codex and get sacstone

[reveur81]

This holds alot of contrevorsy, People always think maxing fissure is the best. When quite frankly, It's not. It's not even comparable.

Here's the skill build most people go by level 7


(4) Fissure
(0) Enrage
(2) Heavy weight
(1) Shockwave

The grand total of doing this damage correctly meaning your close enough for shock wave to activate is 560
The total stun time on the combo would be 2.0 seconds


This is not including bonus damage from creeps from ulti, just base damage and adding shock wave.


Now Using the correct Skill build from level 7

(1) Fissure
(1) Enrage
(4) Heavy weight
(1) Shockwave

The total for this combination would be 670
The total stun duration for this combo would be 4.5 seconds (not including fissures stun time cause it doesn't stack)


Really interresting.

[Dashiva]

Interesting point, thank you OP

[Loki]

The idea behind maxing fissure is that it's a long range nuke. It is far easier to harrass the enemy with it than it would be with enrage, since you can stay at safe range and don't have to worry about them killing you in a heartbeat when you go around the back. They won't let you get in range and stun them in a good spot, if they make any sense.

In the first case, you have a 900(?) range nuke of 560. In the second case, you have a 200(?) range nuke of 670. Given the importance of positioning in this game and behemoth being quite squishy in the early game, I would always prefer the first.

[FreestyleZ]

building the 'slap' build is ****in funny. Just get a shitload of dmg + lvl 4 rift shards and max enrage and watch those 1k crits come rollin in

[rightclick]

I've tried both builds a fair amount. 1-1-4-1 is certainly a viable option but it's inferior overal to 4-0-2-1. Why is this? Because behe can't run up to someone and combo 99% of the time. He doesn't get much use out of his ult and odds of actually walking up to someone and landing an enrage stun are pretty low. Instead, behe is usually played from max fissure range. His main advantage as a roamer is that he can fissure you from somewhere you can't see. He can block you from 1000 range or set up another stunner and it's very hard to avoid. In these situations having fissure maxed is a hell of a lot more valuable than having heavyweight maxed.

Build him however you want, but there is a valid reason most people max fissure (because they get no use out of heavyweight blocking people from 1000 range).

[Shaddox]

While you do make some valid points, your build is only good if you somehow manage to get a <15 minute portal key which let's be frank, it's not gonna happen very often. Recommending people to use a build that requires you to be very close to enemy heroes while not mentioning Behemoth's extreme squishyness is borderline griefing.

[Pikling]

on behe i max stats+ fissure. get chalice, post haste, max a codex and get sacstone

Gtfo troll.

[Watercat]

i'm kind of disgusted at some of the builds i've seen.

Now Using the correct Skill build from level 7

(1) Fissure
(1) Enrage
(4) Heavy weight
(1) Shockwave



well then you have to get next to them and fissure to actually stun
maxing fissure is more gaurentted damage
by 7 i go
4 1 1 1

[Okuu]

I'll try to answer the question..
He has 0 mana
He rely 55% on his mana, 40% on positionning,5% on his autoattack before getting portal key
After pkey, which is not easy to get considering you are a melee whose Autoattack sucks and you don't necessary get kills early on, you need 60% positionning, 40% mana
Behemoth is squishy and there's a heavy feed alert if a random plays him

That's the best I can provide I think, I usually win my games with the noble beast =)

[Azza_]

If you're ignoring Fissure, you're useless over any distance greater than melee range.

[atHomE]

http://replays.heroesofnewerth.com/match_replay.php?mid=34149129

Thats how to play Behm...

I prefer the 4/0/2/1 at lvl 7

after my starting items i red boots -> pk

dont waste time delaying your pk, a Behm without a PK has almost no way to land a decent ult (3+ heros hopefully on a creep wave)

My reason for maxing fissure is that its very good burst dmg from a distance, behm has no other way of dealing ranged dmg at these levels. Also, just after laning phase when people are starting to leave lane, you can kill entire creep waves helping get your pk ASAP. I cant stress enough how important it is for behm to get a pk as soon as possible, his ult is just to good.

[CoolStoryBr0]

why are people so bad at playing behe?

(1) Fissure
(1) Enrage
(4) Heavy weight
(1) Shockwave

(4) Heavy weight
??

:edit: fail, i thought this was the build you suggested

[xStory_Timex]

I play behe alot, and i usually play with another initiator such as magmus or kraken. You have them go in first and bait, while I wait in the shadows and pk in ult, and block then the rest of the team comes in and its gg. I like to play behe as more an AOE nuke than an initiator.

[`Abstract]

Behe is probably one of the easiest heroes to play.

Timing is key for this hero and most people fail at it.

[Yoda``]

I love how the guy comes in thinking he's got the best build and everyone else is bad and leaves after being shut down by everyone for his weaker build.

[Shocker420]

I love how the guy comes in thinking he's got the best build and everyone else is bad and leaves after being shut down by everyone for his weaker build.

Cant really take anything a guy says with 1.67 K+A:D and .5 wards a game seriously