[REQUEST] Item Build for Soul Reaper

[Lolololage]

Ive tried a couple of games, and i find that codex works well with his ultimate but i find its high cost (even with uber farming) makes survivability hard.

This hero has so little hp! But you need your mana so i dont know if talismen of exile is better than fortified bracer.

Some help on an item build please?

[Loosance]

sacrifical stone / staff of the master / behemot's heart. If you have one of those items the hero is a pain in the .. face, and if you got all of them you are an invincible killing machine.

[Suiraclaw]

Refresher stone and kuldra are worth mentioning as well.

[Loosance]

Ive tried a couple of games, and i find that codex works well with his ultimate but i find its high cost (even with uber farming) makes survivability hard.

This hero has so little hp! But you need your mana so i dont know if talismen of exile is better than fortified bracer.

Some help on an item build please?

If you want starting items, high lvl players do str bracers on him (2 most of the time) then boots and then they go for sacrifical.
If you don't like sacrifical (that mean you suck but well .. nobody is perfect) and if you want to do another job then you can do astro + mana ring but from my opinion its a big waste.
This hero is a healertankdpsinthero, he can even do some coffee if you want to ...

[Lolololage]

Lol, so is codex not worth it then? And is 3 talismans just as good as 2 bracers? id imagine the extra 27 (?) damage is a bonus worth paying a few hundred for?

Edit, also, which form of boos is best?

I imagine attack speed and armour AND better speed from enhanced marchers are all +'s on this hero. But the extra mana from steam boots might be useful to counter your lack of mana from buying fortified bracers?

[oSoM]

sac stone is pretty much core on him.
I like getting post haste on him after that to become a better pusher.

then depending on matchup one of these:
astrolabe or rune if you want to maximize your anti-AoE potential.
kuldra if your team needs disables.
frostfield if your up against a lot of AGIs.
shrunken head if you keep getting focused.

luxuries for lategame:
frostwolfs skull
restoration stone
behemoths heart

Staff of the master is nice to have but definitely not top priority.
Most of the games with Necrolyte I went for sac stone, post haste, kuldra, frostwolfs skull.

[dune]

Most builds I've seen since his HP nerf in DotA get Astrolabe first followed by Kuldra. It's worth saving for Post-Haste if possible, though the new Steamboots can work well, too, for the +10 Strength. After Kuldra, Staff of the Master is usually a good bet and from there you can start getting Behemoth's Heart, though it is likely that the game will be over by then.

[sHoWTiMe]

What skill build do you guys use on this hero?

[Loosance]

sac stone is pretty much core on him.
I like getting post haste on him after that to become a better pusher.

then depending on matchup one of these:
astrolabe or rune if you want to maximize your anti-AoE potential.
kuldra if your team needs disables.
frostfield if your up against a lot of AGIs.
shrunken head if you keep getting focused.

luxuries for lategame:
frostwolfs skull
restoration stone
behemoths heart

Staff of the master is nice to have but definitely not top priority.
Most of the games with Necrolyte I went for sac stone, post haste, kuldra, frostwolfs skull.

Post haste is for long game, making you a better farmer, not really for push ... You can stay in a lane and farm till your friend push then you can tp for help or you can stay and tp to def, well it makes you a better farmer :)

Behemot is part of the core item, when you reach the 2 str bracers + boots + sacrifical stone. You will have a better survability (in overall) and you the HP scale perfectly with the hero, shrunkened hero can be avoided and silenced (with new scout wards) or swaped (andro)... So Behemot is definitly the best choice for tanking.

Talking about staff of the master its needed, lowering ulti's cd and upgrading dmg ... what else? Well item for the recipe are, 10 str (hp = tanking) and 10 int (mana pool) and hp and int ... well you found out that it give WHAT YOU NEED! Restoration stone? Its made from regen (you don't really need regen, you have sacrifical). Well if you want to compare staff of master and restoration stone, for the same amount of gold (nearly) you will have 2 upgrade effect on the ulti against one refresh costin mana? I bet you will do more ulti with the staff than with restoration.

So, frostfield is luxury, frostwolf is mega luxury, but the core is sacrifical behemot, the kundra and the staff depend on the situation. I personaly think that kundra is overrated compared to barrier, having behemot + sacrifical + barrier giving you some magic resistance ... dam in team fight you will definitly NEVER die.

[Lolololage]

How do you guys get the damage done with this guy then?

Sac Stone gives you no offensive capabilities, his spells seem to be below par damage wise, his auto attack isnt that great as far as i can see and his ult only works to last hit untill late game.

Obviously i need to learn the chracter, so i dont doubt you, i just want to be informed!

[Loosance]

well, you spam your ae heal/dps, you have an aura ... read the spells maybe? The hero don't kill with a INSANEGGNOREBURST, he will just walk ae keep walking ae, keep pushing ae keep coming to you ae then when you are mid life (and all your friend are running for their life) then you will be dead by his ulti.

[Kietharr]

his attack damage is awful, dont even try to salvage it. This hero is all about spamming his AoE over and over again until all of the bad guys are dead. His aura helps with this, basically you just stand near enemies and spam your aoe and everyone dies. sac stone is really good on him because he makes kills happen a lot with his ult and needs raw HP, raw mana, and regen for both.

Kuldra is ok on him but if you have another kuldra hero around best to let them get it while you work on other things, but if no other viable kuldra hero is around go ahead and get it. I usually go sac stone post haste staff of the master barrier idol, then heart and frostfield plate as luxury.

[xahxah]

Sacrificial Stone / Staff of Master / Totem of Kuldra are the 3 core items, depending on what your team needs (tank, carry shut down, or disable). After that, Frostfield plate, Hellflower, or Puzzlebox are all good.

[Lolololage]

well, you spam your ae heal/dps, you have an aura ... read the spells maybe? The hero don't kill with a INSANEGGNOREBURST, he will just walk ae keep walking ae, keep pushing ae keep coming to you ae then when you are mid life (and all your friend are running for their life) then you will be dead by his ulti.

Thanks for the constructive comment.. I have read the spells thank you very much.

However what i failed to see, was the synergy with items that allow him to survive and his spells. Obvious to you maybe. I apologise sincerely for asking for help on a forum and not knowing something.

Every one else, thanks without the sarcasm. I will try this out!

[akitoes]

Thanks for the constructive comment.. I have read the spells thank you very much.

However what i failed to see, was the synergy with items that allow him to survive and his spells. Obvious to you maybe. I apologise sincerely for asking for help on a forum and not knowing something.

Every one else, thanks without the sarcasm. I will try this out!
wow such butthurtness
he didn't say anything offensive

[Loosance]

Well the synergy is all about survive. You will see later on when you will become better at this game (no sarcasm) that people will be more and more aggressiv and will know how to assist. If you reach the sacrifical stone but get kundra instead of behemot there is alot of chance that you will be the primary focus and you will die by an assist. Yes, pro players know (most of the time) how to assist and they will make you regret this item. Experience shown that behemot is better just to let you heal 3 or 4 times, it should be enough to wipe the team with your friends.

Synergie is : your passiv give you nearly infinite mana just by spamming your heal/dps. The sacrifical stone just give you the regen needed (when you don't get any kill from ae). The heal provide a good ae dps for pushing creeps and healing your team.

The fact is, like i said, kundra gives no synergy (only mana pool and regen, you have sacrifical, you don't need it) and the only thing you gain is a control. Does it worth 2700 + 2100 + 900? With 2700 you can nearly buy the +32 STR axe. You wanna trade hp for mana pool? I mean, its better to be alive oom than to be dead full mana, and if you use your ulti correctly and if you got sacrifical stone mana shouldn't be a problem.

Enough said now, try it out ;p

[Lolololage]

Ok, i tried your tips, and was pretty amazed. Gem of blood makes all the difference. And astrolab combined with post haste late gme makes your pushing potential brutal.

However. Why is the behe heart so good in its current form? All it does for fighting is give you hp, as the regen no longer works in combat, are there not better items about?

Also, does staff of the master actually work with his ult?

[Prixm1]

Frostwolf <3 lawl

[Ass_Fister]

kuldra refresher and frostwolf skull ;)
avoid behem for being lame sacrificial for losing too many charges and futile too in battles so just stack vanguards for hp regen ;)

[Loosance]

Ok, i tried your tips, and was pretty amazed. Gem of blood makes all the difference. And astrolab combined with post haste late gme makes your pushing potential brutal.

However. Why is the behe heart so good in its current form? All it does for fighting is give you hp, as the regen no longer works in combat, are there not better items about?

Also, does staff of the master actually work with his ult?

as i said .... you will see that for the moment in pub 1500+ or even in 1700+ game you will own without behemot for sure, but the more you will go in high lvl games the more you will see that 2500 hp is not enough to counter an assist.

[FuzzyWuzzy]

New Sac Stone sucks balls.

So the item build will probably be Totem, Behemoth's Heart, Frostfield Plate.

I'm not too sure Staff works on him at the moment.

[Kralnor]

Do heroes have 25% magic resistance in HoN by default? If so, Staff of the Master is of dubious use.

Even if Staff of the Master works on him, it's honestly not that great. 0.9 -> 1.1 dmg per missing life is not a big boost. It means that against a tank with 4k hp (unlikely), in order to kill him, you can ulti at 1808 remaining hp rather than 1612, a 196 hp difference. I consider 4k quite extreme, so below that the gains will of course be less.

For more info, see this thread: http://forums.dota-allstars.com/index.php?showtopic=102855

[Utred]

Frostfield plate should be awesome on him as far as I can see.

[Murlox]

In HoN, staff of the master does not boost your ulti to 1.1, but to 1.2.

http://img8.hostingpics.net/pics/721308Sans_titre.png

Hellbourne execution on level 3 :

= 0,75 * 0,9 * (HP missing)
= 0,675 * (HP missing)
= 0,675 * (Max HP - Remaining HP)

Target with 4.000 HP, lethal shot with level 3 ulti :

0,675 * (Max HP - Remaining HP) = Remaining HP
2.700 - 0,675x = x
2.700 = 1,675x
x = Remaining HP = 1.611,94 HP


Hellbourne execution on level 4(Boosted) :

= 0,75 * 1,2 * (HP missing)
= 0,9 * (HP missing)
= 0,9 * (Max HP - Remaining HP)

Target with 4.000 HP, lethal shot with level 4(Boosted) ulti :

0,9 * (Max HP - Remaining HP) = Remaining HP
3.600 - 0,9x = x
3.600 = 1,9x
x = Remaining HP = 1.894,73 HP

Upgrading to staff of the master actually allows to shoot your boosted ulti 282,79 HP sooner than the regular one, on a 4.000 HP target.


On a side note, try to ulti kongor at ~mid life... WTF guaranteed on team chat.

[Loosance]

staff of the master give 10 STR/ 10 INT and 250 HP ... isn't it awesome ?
Plus, 1,2 = 60% hp so you can ulti sooner and you can ulti twice in a battle (when battle last for a long time).

[Murlox]

1,2 is not 60 % HP, it's 54,54 % HP.

But it is only 54,54 % HP for non-heroes, and for heroes you have to factor in natural magical resistance (0,25, or 0,75 magical dmg taken).

So 1,2 will do the dmg equivalent to :

47,36 % HP on a hero without magic resistance (40,3 % HP without staff)

37,5 % HP on a hero with shaman headress (31,03 % HP without staff)

We can see that staff of the master allows a 7 % HP increase in the margin to shoot your ulti.


With staff of the master, if target has 1.000 HP, you can cast your ulti 70 HP sooner (...)
at 2.000 HP, you can cast it 140 HP sooner
at 3.000 HP, you can cast it 210 HP sooner
at 4.000 HP, you can cast it 280 HP sooner, and so on


During mid-game, early late game, most of targets have between 1500 / 3000 HP at max. Buying SotM, you basically allow yourself to cast your ulti on an average of 154 HP sooner (using a 2200 HP average).

BUT, let's not forget that your ulti stuns for 1,5 sec, therefore there is no real need for it to be lethal as you can still kill your target during that stun.

In conclusion, I'll definitively stop rushing staff of the master on him, even though I liked having the parts in inventory in early game.

[Loosance]

all your theory craft is useless... you know why? cause you calculate the ultimate to actually insta kill the target. With the new bloodstone you don't have to get the kill.

The hero is here for spaming the wave to heal friends and dps enemy. If you don't have enough hp > you will die with a focus. If you don't have enough mana pool you will be oom and you will be force to back or you will die (or a friendly hero). So the point is gettint sacrifical to have hp and mp boost, getting staff to still gain hp and mp pool and finally gettint behemot to boost again your hp pool, in that way you will be invicible. If you do sacrifical then kundra you will not have enough hp pool (and you will die with an assist) if you do frosfield you will have armor and mana but no hp so you will die with and assist too. If you die, your team lose the tank and the healer ...
So now, talking about theory craft; Without staff ulti = 0,9 , with ulti = 1,2 so we can say that the gain is about 30% so the ultimate will do 30% more damages with the staff, you think it suck? The Cd is buffed too ...
Ask lightofheaven !

[Murlox]

I was just adressing the point raised by Kralnor.

As far as insta killing your target goes, staff of the master provides a 7% superior margin than level 3 ulti. (meaning you can insta kill a hero with 47,3% remaining HP with staff, while you need to wait for 40,3% remaining HP without staff)

As far as sheer damage goes, staff of the master provides a 30 % boost to your ulti. (you will do 30% more damage)

I disagree with your item choice, as frostfield plate is in most of the cases vastly superior than behemoth heart. Unless you are facing mass nukers and 0 agi, in which case you should first go for a shaman headress after your sacrificial stone, upgrade it to pipe and then maybe get a heart as very late game luxury.

Behemoth heart provides +35 str, +300 HP and +2% max HP regen that does not apply during fights. This means +965 HP and a +1,05 HP regen for Soul reaper. For 5.500 gold.

Frostflied plate provides +15 armor, +30 int, -25 attack speed aura on a 1.000 radius, 200 magic damage with 40% ms slow during 4 seconds aoe spell on a 30 seconds cooldown. This means +90% max HP against physical damage, +30 dmg, +390 mana, +1,02 mana regen, +200 dmg nuke that slows +slow AS aura. For 4.700 gold.

Regarding only the +90% max HP granted by armor, it means that as soon as you have 1.072 HP, a frostfield plate gives you more EHP than a heart against physical damage.

In other words, frostfield plate owns agility and strenght heroes. The best part is that on the contrary of behemoth heart bonus that remains constant at +965 health, the bonus granted by armor scales. The more HP you get later on, the more EHP you get thanks to your armor, since every point in HP is boosted by 90% against physical damage.

Also note that staff of the master does not buff the cooldown of your ulti in any ways, which remains at 70 seconds in both cases.

off topic, losance should spell with only one "o".

on topic, my core for Soul Reaper is : steam boots / power supply / bracers if needed / sac stone / frostfield plate.

[adrift]

I usually get frostified plate as the first core with two bracers for HP. Sac stone is good on him too but against heavy physical teams I like the armor/slow. The slow and shiva aoe synergize well with his skills. Don't do this against teams with big nukes though.

Second core is almost always totem. You're job is to spam you're 5 sec AoE/heal and ult the most dangerous person on their team as soon as he hits 40%. You need items to let you survive to spam your pulse.

I would never get staff of the masters. Its too much gold to allow you to ult at 45% instead of 40%. The HP is nice but you can get more useful items with HP.

Don't KS with your ult - save it for killing someone dangerous during team fights. Its a short CD so you can use it in ganks if the person isn't going to die without it but don't use it to get a kill on someone that was going to die anyway.

[Loosance]

off topic, losance should spell with only one "o".

so murlox should be spell with a "c" : Murloc !


My build is based on the items recipe needed; all the small part needed are great and easy to farm till the axe for the behemot.
I farm 2 str bracers => easy nearly 500 for each
then i farm boots => 500 + 2K2 (you will agree that its safe to farm 2K2 gold at lvl 7-8)
then i farm each part of the sacrifical stone => 1K each
then i farm each part of the staff => 1K each

this cannot be stopped by mass ganking because you can have 2 wave before TP, and you can be anywhere for farming. If you get steamboots you will have to get TP and fight with your carry for gold.

Then come the behemot, usually i get the gold for the axe only by pushing or with team fights.
The fact is, you will farm boots and sacrifical stone, so now you are lvl 11 or 12 with the sacrifical and you will farm 2K7 for the staff? How much hp do you think you have? I bet on 1K4 - 1K5 and you will reach lvl 25 and get like 2K (max) without bracers. So yeah i think this is not enought, even if you have insane armor.
For the moment, in Hon, carry are not that much imba and you know it. At high lvl you will only see SS/valk , madman, or even predator but you will see alot of magmus/behemots/tempest and so on, and i don't think it is the job of the soul reaper to make a barrier to counter the magical assist. If i had to do it i would do it after the staff.
I like when the soul reaper can be there from the start of the battle to the very end, and to be abble to do that you need an insane HP pool.

SAC + kundra + frostfield => not enough HP
If you all hate staff of the master so ok go for shrunken, but you have to get more HP or survability! I will agree with frostfield when morph, spectre, phatom assassin and so on will be ported.

[Murlox]

I think we both agree that sacrificial stone is pretty much hard-core on Soul.

If I'm having a hard time, I'll make bracers too before sac, but if and only if I'm having a hard time in lane, or lot of team battle occur in early game.

After my sac stone, level 11~12, its generally time to push... if push goes well, I buy +10 armor first and then finish steam boots. If push goes wrong, I first finish steam boots and slowly crawl my way to +10 armor. Then +27 int staff.

And after that, game is often over, but I would agree that staff of the master could fit as luxury. Little hp and mana boost, and I love to farm it.

No behe heart for me though.

I like armor, probably because I play pubs where teams are not organized and you get random hit a lot.

[sneakysob]

Didn't someone post a guide? I just skimmed over it, but it looked decent.

[Kietharr]

What skill build do you guys use on this hero?

Max nuke first, sadist second then aura midgame. Get ult whenever you can.

As for items, I usually go x2 bracelets glowstone marchers early game, then make glowstone into sac stone and make post haste with marchers (though steam boots are also good on him now). Then get staff of the master, after that it's up for a lot of debate, Kuldra is pretty solid as is Behemoth Heart if you already have a kuldra or 2. Frostfield plate is also good. Astrolabe is good if you're doing a push intensive strat if you farm it early.

[Fishes1]

Ok, i tried your tips, and was pretty amazed. Gem of blood makes all the difference. And astrolab combined with post haste late gme makes your pushing potential brutal.

However. Why is the behe heart so good in its current form? All it does for fighting is give you hp, as the regen no longer works in combat, are there not better items about?

Also, does staff of the master actually work with his ult?

Damage dealt with ult:

Without SotM: Enemy's missing health*0.9 < Can kill at around 40% health*
With SotM: Enemy's missing health*1.2 < Can kill at around 60% health*

[brt1]

real cool guys rush sotm then codex 5

[Utred]

Damage dealt with ult:

Without SotM: Enemy's missing health*0.9 < Can kill at around 40% health*
With SotM: Enemy's missing health*1.2 < Can kill at around 60% health*
You forgot the magic resistance. You won't kill above 50% I think.

[wtfiku]

I farmed for Radiance asap. Shaman Headress is next. Since you have Radiance + Aura, you will be amazed how fast you can farm.