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Travakh
09-19-2009, 06:59 AM
Building him as a pseudotank no longer executes him to full potential. Listing item build with justifications.

Start
-Shield
-2 health pots
-Tangos

basic laning configuration

Purchase in lane
-Two Rings of Regeneration

Zephyr's low base str makes him susceptible to int nukes, the two RoRs will be built into a hood. I've found vanguard to be unnecessary; proper micro of tornadoes (i.e. suck em up right before you clear a camp) easily covers farming purposes, and without buying vanguard I can pick 20 minute radiance with no problem

Move to jungle at Level 5, L2 leap L3 tornadoes, farm radiance. Target is 15 minute relic, 20 minute radiance.

From radiance

-Boots of Travel. Required for fastfarming, allows him to easily push lanes and escape by leaping into trees + tp to other lane to continue farm without hassle.
-Hood -> Pipe. Eliminates the 'oneshot by zeus' threat.
-Butterfly. Purge counters your wind shield, wind shield becomes a side accessory once butterfly is fielded, and it yields quite good damage. You get this before skadi because a purge of your windshield is your standard counter, and maintaining evasion anyway forces them to try to beat you down manually. 60IAS/60DAM is always a good thing
-Skadi. Greater hp augments tanking, the slow keeps people in your rad/tornado range, overall superb item.
-Manta Style. Gives all the stats you need, images assist pushing down towers and raxes
-Sell Pipe for Heart/BKB if the game gets this far, or Satanic if required

Prior to update zephyr carried through rushing heavy tank items, but now that he's agi his autoattack becomes a significant threat in its own right. Unlike all other agi carries he has extremely good farm and probably the highest potential gold/min, and thus not fast farming a heavy damage loadout is a complete waste. Butterfly can be fielded by the 30th minute and skadi in the 40th quite easily if the radiance is deployed at 20.

ITEMS TO AVOID

-Deso/Shieldbreaker. Shieldbreaker is a superb item because it's the best damage/gold in the game, and it's why so many carries field it. Problem? Zephyr farms fast enough to not actually need it, and tornadoes do magic damage anyway.
-Frostfield plate. Formerly a core item but frankly not worth the item slot as it stands, cuirass is easily farmed.
-Vanguard. Used to recommend this but I've recanted, as the 2k gold you blow on it significantly delays the radiance farm.
-Behemoth's Heart. No in-combat regen makes the item overpriced as it stands, and with skadi and manta out you already field +35 str.

EDIT: Cuirass may be a better choice over early butterfly, will do testing later. Theorycraft says yes as traditionally cuirass and bfly offered similar damage (-5armor 55% IAS vs 60IAS/60damage) and survivability yields (30% evasion is actually inferior to 15 armor when current armor is below 20 or so), but will have to test

RainbowPower
09-19-2009, 07:06 AM
Now in HoN-speak:

Building him as a pseudotank no longer executes him to full potential. Listing item build with justifications.

Start
-Iron Buckler
-2 health pots
-Runes of Blight

basic laning configuration

Purchase in lane
-Two Trinkets of Restoration

Zephyr's low base str makes him susceptible to int nukes, the two Trinkets will be built into a Shaman's Headdress. I've found Helm of the Black Legion to be unnecessary; proper micro of tornadoes (i.e. suck em up right before you clear a camp) easily covers farming purposes, and without buying Helm of the Black Legion I can pick 20 minute Mock of Brilliance with no problem

Move to jungle at Level 5, L2 leap L3 tornadoes, farm Mock of Brilliance. Target is 15 minute Sword of the High, 20 minute Mock of Brilliance.

From Mock of Brilliance

-Poste Haste. Required for fastfarming, allows him to easily push lanes and escape by leaping into trees + tp to other lane to continue farm without hassle.
-Shaman's Headdress -> Barrier Idol. Eliminates the 'oneshot by zeus' threat.
-Wingbow. Purge counters your wind shield, wind shield becomes a side accessory once Wingbow is fielded, and it yields quite good damage.
-Frostwolf's Skull. Greater hp augments tanking, the slow keeps people in your Mock/tornado range, overall superb item
-Geometer's Bane. Gives all the stats you need, images assist pushing down towers and raxes
-Sell Pipe for Behemoth's Heart/Shrunken Head if the game gets this far

Prior to update zephyr carried through rushing heavy tank items, but now that he's agi his autoattack becomes a significant threat in its own right. Unlike all other agi carries he has extremely good farm and probably the highest potential gold/min, and thus not fast farming a heavy damage loadout is a complete waste

Sir_Josh
09-19-2009, 07:08 AM
DotA lingo fails. If you insist on being leet and writing like that then atleast translate it for us.

Oops, posted before me.

Lionguild
09-19-2009, 07:09 AM
He did.

Harkon
09-19-2009, 07:11 AM
Thanks for the translation, didn't understand a word he said. Well someone else wrote the translation, but still happy.

DANAYO
09-19-2009, 12:48 PM
Sweet, thanks

Suiraclaw
09-19-2009, 01:44 PM
Alternative Build:
Start:
- Shield
- 2-3 sets of runes of blight
- 1-3 minor totems
Outpost:
- Logger's hatchet (you are extremely reliant on last hitting for tornadoes and it helps quite a bit while farming. Eating a tree can help double pulling as well.)
- 2 Trinket's of Restoration

After you got that, go jungle (unless you're not level 5 yet). Get:
- Marchers
- 2 Duck Boots for Iron Shield (why not? You can use the agility)
- Fortified Bracelet
- Magic armor (bracelet and this will help you survive vs nukers)

Now you can gank, push and farm more. Priority items:
- finish Shamans Headgress
- get Nullfire Blade (the slow is amazing with your tornadoes and the purge has tons of uses. Plus, the agi/int bonus is helpful)
- get post haste (or enhanced marchers)

By now you are already quite a menace with decent auto attack damage, magic armor and a way to neutralise a lot of physical damage against you (high armor, iron shield, wind shield). Discard Hatchet and get either:
- Mock of Brilliance. Quite late and it has lost a bit of it's effectiveness, but if you had a good farm it can be a good item. Plus, the extra damage works well.
- Geometer's Bane (bad synergy with Wind Shield, but otherwise good item and movespeed bonus helps)
- A damage item like Shieldbreaker. After all, you have quite a lot of agility (and attack speed) by now. Still, mock is usually better because your steroid (your ulti) is unrelieable.
- Barrier's Idol. If they have a lot of aoe magical damage, grab this.
- Behemoth's Heart

Basically, you're a tank with aoe damage and decent auto attack DPS.

In the end, it's all about wether you want to go the original aoe tank route (like the INT zephyr) or grab a nullfire blade first for better ganking. It all depends on your team (do they need a pusher, a ganker or a carry?) and theirs (do they have heroes that can be counted with purge?).

Travakh
09-19-2009, 01:53 PM
Alternative Build:

Not effective. With the agi path unlocked playing him as a tank is like playing Chronos as a tank, it's underutilization of the hero

You field the radiance early solely to hasten the fastfarm. Nobody gets a radiance for its damage or any of that, it is a farm item similar to Midas. Thus, the earlier you get it the more effective it is over the course of the game (as in, vastly improves gold/minute). Delaying it removes its usefulness, not getting it significantly lowers gold/minute and delays carry items

jtown
09-19-2009, 02:55 PM
what is midas?

Travakh
09-19-2009, 02:56 PM
what is midas?

Alchemist's Bones, sorry

Suiraclaw
09-19-2009, 03:41 PM
With the agi path unlocked playing him as a tank is like playing Chronos as a tank, it's underutilization of the hero

We're both playing him like a tank as we both get the same amount of tank items (shield and headress). So you minsunderstood that.

Mock of Brilliance is certainly the cookie cutter build. Still, I believe there are several situations in which it's beneficial to get nullfire blade first on zephyr (~1/4th of the time).

One obvious example would be if your farm went really badly because of some exterior cause. If you got outlaned early on and they gank you too often, nullfire blade is a safer choice then mock.

Another reason would be that you don't have the time to farm a mock because your team needs you elsewhere or because you needed other items first.

To resume:
- mock of brilliance is a great item if you rush it. This makes zephyr a real hard carry because you can get expensive items faster.
- if you can't rush it, get nullfire blade. This makes zephyr a semi carry because you're useful faster but won't have the farm to hard carry.

FuzzyWuzzy
09-19-2009, 03:43 PM
You are never going to get that much money in a normal game, EVEN with Zephyr :P

After Post Haste / Mock / Barrier Idol, you should go Geometer's Bane imo, if you are SO overfarmed it's probably better to get Frostfield Plate or Frostwolf Skull, which synergizes better with his skills than Wingbow imo.

Bonburner
09-19-2009, 07:58 PM
I really abhor considering Mock as a core - always have been a comedy item, if at most, a counter to blink in teams.

Iron Shield
Marchers - changed into Enhanced after Runed Axe.
Runed Axe
Your favorite DPS items - be it Wingbow, Frostwolf's, Shieldbreaker, Savage Mace, etc. (Wingbow is one of the better choices if the opponents are making Nullfire, but if they don't forget this item).

Travakh
09-19-2009, 08:01 PM
Like I said in the other thread, I'm going to be experimenting with various other rushes (skadi rush etc) to see if radiance can be skipped, or if skipping radiance critically hurts your ability to fast-farm

But of all items why would you get a battle fury for your first item

Xtrykr
09-19-2009, 08:02 PM
Hey, thats not too shabby of an idea for Zephyr, I think Zephyr needs a slow effect on his leap attack or a mini aoe stun.

Lethe
09-19-2009, 08:54 PM
Just because a hero is agi doesn't mean he has to deal physical dps.

Certain heroes can just win a battle through attrition, like magebane and zephyr.

Cyclones are still what defines this hero, the tank build is still viable, even with the nerf to heart...raw hp is ultimately raw hp.

Bonburner
09-19-2009, 09:09 PM
Like I said in the other thread, I'm going to be experimenting with various other rushes (skadi rush etc) to see if radiance can be skipped, or if skipping radiance critically hurts your ability to fast-farm

But of all items why would you get a battle fury for your first item

Gives him HP and unnecessary Mana regen, damage that is greater than Mock and only grows late game unlike Mock. Cheaper. Lets you lane since you can get HP regen first.

Jungling with BF is easier as there are many creeps that are magic immune meaning cyclones = 0 damage.

Frog100
09-20-2009, 12:02 AM
New Zephyr, same build.

Travakh
09-20-2009, 03:43 AM
I fielded travs/skadi by the 26th minute in the last game I played, non EM. Manta at 35, had butterfly ready to go but game ended at 42. Skipped hood because of low enemy magic damage.

Zephyr doesn't need battlefury or radiance, apparently. I was harassed heavily early game but was able to field skadi/travs in a respectable amount of time, and the items flowed in like butter afterward. I am going to switch order around a bit, skadi should take precedence over bfly as first item, but I skadi rushed from boots+shield.

I'll write a guide with purty pictures in a couple of days

Hermann
09-20-2009, 04:19 AM
I agree with getting a loggers hatchet, it's really cheap and great for last hitting/farming- though after a certain point it is likely to be a waste of inventory space.

MahdSkillz
09-20-2009, 06:44 AM
Why do you say go jungling at level FIVE, are you retarded?
You either go jungling at level 1 (and this is EASILY done with him) or you don't go at all!

Mellow
09-20-2009, 07:55 AM
Because at level 1 your tornadoes are too weak, you do too little damage, so you can't kill anything but the yellow creep camps.

Jungling at level 5 is standard for Sefferrrr

nakke
09-20-2009, 09:45 AM
Why do you say go jungling at level FIVE, are you retarded?
You either go jungling at level 1 (and this is EASILY done with him) or you don't go at all!
stop being an idiot. Maybe he is wrong, but doesnt make him a retard.
oh well i forgot.. this is the dota community

Patak
09-20-2009, 10:19 AM
Why do you say go jungling at level FIVE, are you retarded?
You either go jungling at level 1 (and this is EASILY done with him) or you don't go at all!

How do you jungle effectively at level 1 with Zephyr?

theqat
09-20-2009, 10:30 AM
How do you jungle effectively at level 1 with Zephyr?

Start with Logger's Hatchet, Iron Shield, and 3 Runes of Blight. Build Cyclones from the weakest camp (which you should stack right off the bat) and pull the side camp into your creep waves as often as possible. You'll start out leveling fairly slowly, but around when you hit 5 (level 3 Cyclones) you'll accelerate and get past everyone. Once you've got 7 you can kill any stack you want, so stack camps as often as possible. Go Cyclones/Leap/Cyclones/Cyclones/Wind Shield/Cyclones/Wind Shield/Wind Shield/Wind Shield/Leap/Leap/Leap. Use Wind Shield when it's up while jungling.

There's a degree of using the Cyclones to heal yourself that is necessary too, but that's more based on feel. Usually I was using the heal before pulling the side camp into our waves each time, because the lane creeps tank those for you.

After playing Zeph in my last game, I recommend Headdress->Post Haste->Mock->Frostfield->Frostwolf, at least in public matches. I actually went Headdress->Mock->Demonic->Frostwolf, but Demonic really isn't that great on Zephyr . . . you don't autoattack all that much, and you'd be better off with the AOE slow from Frostfield to keep enemies in range of your Cyclones and Mock aura. Also, you CAN run out of mana, which Frostfield would help with.

Post Haste is there because your lane pushing abilities are stymied by any other selection. Call in your Cyclones after you teleport so you can get a quick start making new ones. (Unless I've misinterpreted this and they actually automatically despawn after you teleport.)

Final note: Zephyr is one of few heroes the new Heart might be really good on. I elected not to get it, but if you go Post Haste and play a lane-pushing style I think it could be great. Any time you get away from a fight with some damage, you can just teleport to another lane and wait for the Heart regen to kick in while you vacuum up gold from creeps.

Mellow
09-20-2009, 01:54 PM
Oh right, with the new hatchet jungling from level 1 is much more viable than it was before.

Cataclysma
09-20-2009, 02:14 PM
My guide was prettier ._.

The problem with Zephyr is that his skills still lend him towards being a tank, he has no damage amplification (unless you count his tornadoes) and generally he's support - if you try and build him as an agility DPS hero you're just going to make something that's inferior to all of the other agility carries that work much better.

Mondak
09-20-2009, 02:27 PM
Thanks for the post [LYM]fairleystuff (http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/member.php?u=94876)

Travakh
09-20-2009, 03:44 PM
My guide was prettier ._.

The problem with Zephyr is that his skills still lend him towards being a tank, he has no damage amplification (unless you count his tornadoes) and generally he's support - if you try and build him as an agility DPS hero you're just going to make something that's inferior to all of the other agility carries that work much better.

Yes, and building pitlord as anything (as tank, as int control) is inferior to real tanks and real int control.

That's not the point.

Zephyr can field two 4th tier items by the time any other carry comes close to completing their core. He can field a full damage loadout by the time any other carry picks up the butterfly.

He's a soft carry, but he's on a different acceleration than the rest of them.

Cataclysma
09-20-2009, 04:50 PM
Yes, and building pitlord as anything (as tank, as int control) is inferior to real tanks and real int control.

That's not the point.

Zephyr can field two 4th tier items by the time any other carry comes close to completing their core. He can field a full damage loadout by the time any other carry picks up the butterfly.

He's a soft carry, but he's on a different acceleration than the rest of them.

But I think you'll find Zephyr is a faget

kazetenshu
09-20-2009, 09:05 PM
everyone in the DotA and HoN community love spamming battlefuries on their melee heroes. Battlefury is only really efficient when it comes to clearing neuts, or defending a tower from a really large wave of creeps, otherwise its just decent pure dps item. There are a couple heroes who can really take advantage of it, like swidftblade and his ult, allows him to be effective in a creepwave while ulting, still damaging nearby heroes with the extra slashes, or darklady and her waveform skill. I would go mock over runed ax on zephyr everyday of the weak, because its more useful early on then a battlefury. Personally i would rush post haste before mock as the lane control and mobility is very nice.

Side note:i also agree with the hatchet, less time spent on a single camp is more exp+gold per min.

Lee_K
09-21-2009, 08:47 AM
Hey, thats not too shabby of an idea for Zephyr, I think Zephyr needs a slow effect on his leap attack or a mini aoe stun.

lol no