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Typhy
02-23-2011, 07:11 PM
My friends and I have been watching VODs of higher level teams play, and they always run trilanes, and they do it very effectively. So, we hopped into a game and tried it, to find out it is much harder than it looks to pull it off well.

I played voodoo, my friend played Myrmidon, with a madman in the legion safe lane. Both myrm and I stayed off to the side to let the madman farm, unless the lane was in trouble. As the game progressed, not scoring many kills except for the bloodlust at the very start and one on the dark lady, and after buying wards, upgraded courier, potions, etc. my voodoo play got significantly harder as I couldn't stay alive for more than a couple seconds in a fight.

We got outcarried, sadly, because our madman didn't farm too well. This discouraged us by a lot, but I still want to give it a try. Can someone/some people put together tips from both the supports and the carries point of view, from who to pick to how to go through the phase, and transitioning to mid game?

bg
02-23-2011, 07:48 PM
IMO, don't worry about it until you and your team are good enough at the game to know how to play a game around it. It's not worth it otherwise.

Church_
02-23-2011, 07:54 PM
Play banning pick you get lots of time to decide what hero you want and who to counter the other team.

The laning phase makes up the first 10-20 minutes of the game, depending on what hero you're playing, and is the period of time in which you will be making the most creep kills and denies.

How you perform during laning will affect the strength of you, your team, and your opponent's team for the rest of the game. Therefore, it is important to recognize strong lane combos.

In general, you should have...



At least one ranged hero
At least one disabler

The following are only a few--the combinations are endless, so use your imagination.



Jereziah can cast Protective Charm on Devourer, who will then have increased movement speed and take no damage from Decay.




Ice Imprisonment allows for Swiftblade to easily maneuver in with Blade Frenzy. Chilling Presence allows all lanes to prosper.




Static Grip allows for Cursed Ground to hit 100%. Right after Grip completes, Voodoo Jester casts Acid Cocktail and Electrician uses Energy Absorption.




Pestilence flanks with Impale while Slither uses Poison Spray.




Demented Shaman uses Entangle, allowing Pebbles to move in and Stalagmite/Chuck combo. Shaman moves into range and casts Healing Wave if necessary.




Pollywog Priest's Magical Bindings allows Dark Lady's ridiculous DPS from Dark Blades to fully go through. Priest finishes with Electric Jolt if necessary.




Hammerstorms' Hammer Throw allows for Pyromancer to Dragonfire and Phoenix Wave with 100% certainty.


Also tri combos like::swif: and empath,
:swif: and :behe:or
:behe: and:valk:,
:pebb: and :witc:

Church_
02-23-2011, 07:58 PM
IMO, don't worry about it until you and your team are good enough at the game to know how to play a game around it. It's not worth it otherwise.
ya also join a clan, it helps
edit: oh I see your in one :)

RyHon
02-23-2011, 08:07 PM
I watched the first 20 minutes of the replay.

-Thunderbringer counters trilanes by being able to easily burst down the low level supports.

-Fayde was left to free farm top to outlevel everyone in the game and get a 15 minute codex. This also counters lower level support heroes.

-It is important to stack the creep camps to maximize the carry's farm. This is especially important if the carry has AoE spells and/or is getting a runed axe. Also, stack the pull at :51-:55 second and pull at :15. Pulling a non-stacked camp generally leads to what kept happening. Your tower killed their creeps, then the wave pushed up to the river.

-Madman getting runed axe was a poor item choice for several reason:
--He needs survivability when against fayde and thunderbringer (who both basically soloed)
--Nullfire blade counters dark lady (she had no shrunken head lol :))
--Madman already has very good farming potential with his spells, runed axe only slightly increases it.
--When partaking in a trilane, there is seldom the opportunity for the carry to free farm after the laning phase, because his teammates are too low level and have no gold.

Typhy
02-23-2011, 08:09 PM
Church, that's just some normal tips with no real emphasis on tri-laning.

To Bg, we're really trying to up our game nowadays. We spent a good 10-15 minutes before queueing thinking of a good team comp to run for just one game, and we won that pretty well. Plus, I love learning about this game and I want to learn how to do this strategy, at least in theory.



I watched the first 20 minutes of the replay.

-Thunderbringer counters trilanes by being able to easily burst down the low level supports.

-Fayde was left to free farm top to outlevel everyone in the game and get a 15 minute codex. This also counters lower level support heroes.

-It is important to stack the creep camps to maximize the carry's farm. This is especially important if the carry has AoE spells and/or is getting a runed axe. Also, stack the pull at :51-:55 second and pull at :15. Pulling a non-stacked camp generally leads to what kept happening. Your tower killed their creeps, then the wave pushed up to the river.

-Madman getting runed axe was a poor item choice for several reason:
--He needs survivability when against fayde and thunderbringer (who both basically soloed)
--Nullfire blade counters dark lady (she had no shrunken head lol :))
--Madman already has very good farming potential with his spells, runed axe only slightly increases it.
--When partaking in a trilane, there is seldom the opportunity for the carry to free farm after the laning phase, because his teammates are too low level and have no gold.

That helps a lot, thanks. I normally do stack the creeps, but our madman wasn't too great and we had to go help him a lot. I also know how pulling a nonstacked camp actually pushes the lane, but I'm really bad at attentiveness most of the time. I'll work on that, and I'll remember these tips if we try this again. Thanks!

bassically
02-23-2011, 08:16 PM
Church, you didn't mention a tri-lane once. All of your examples are dual-lanes? Also, GLHF with 2 melee and 1 ranged even against a dual ranged lane.... lol.

SwiftNDeadly
02-23-2011, 08:25 PM
If your gonna pull a tri-lane, the carry has to know how to last hit and deny effectivly because ur effectivley putting all your eggs in one basket. The other important thing is that your two support heros in the tri lane has to be smart enough to adapt to the flow of the game or they will gimp thier team as its effetively 5 vs 3 as the 2 supports will be useless.

Basically the support has to farm gold from the neutrals if carry is in the lane by pulling, usually double stacks, or if you have a tree cutting hp regen, then u can pull to two camps to lane control and to farm up some gold and exp.

The other support should be watching the screen to see what lane needs help and roam gank and set up wards.

The one staying with the carry should be the support you want more farm on, as he can get some gold from neutrals, while the roamer is the main ward *****.

DO NOT LEAVE UR CARRY TILL HE HAS ENOUGH LEVELS AND ITEMS TO BE ABLE TO HAVE CONTROL OVER HIS LANE WITH JUST ONE SUPPORT.

Also if the lane is easy and the carry can handle it by himself, i would advice both suppports to leave and set up a tri lane somewhere and also roam gank.

The main objective besides letting your hard carry get the free farm is to limit the farm/exp on enemy team, by doing roams and setting up tri-lane elsewhere till mid game. This will mean ur carry will be stronger due to him getting free farm but also with the raom ganks, enemmy carry or semi carry will be limited no farm/exp and cant compete with ur carry.

The last thing this does is that you dont get three shotted to death and only fear should be from a burst damage hero such as pebs/dw/gaunt/etc, which helps you stay in battle longer and contribute more. Your other 2 heros should have descent farm and exp as well, since you should of helped them control thier lanes, especially ur mid.

Twiggie
02-23-2011, 08:28 PM
your supports need to be ridiculously aggressive in levels 1-3. that way you should pull off at least two kills on the enemies which will keep their levels down and keep them scared enough to stay out of xp range
once you've killed them a couple times your carry should be able to hold his own 1v2 unless they're running a very bad kill lane. in this time one or both of you should be trip-stacking jungle and ganking the other two lanes.

i found that an andro/engi + carry trilane works pretty well. if andro comes in from the side engi's stun and turret are guaranteed hits, and the carry can clean up for free gold.

if your supports are standing next to the carry, they're doing it wrong and you should feel free to shout unintelligible abuse at them down the mic.