Manavoid (Evasion/Manareg Item)

[CrashLemon]

Take not that numbers can be changed vote on concept not numbers.
Voting No: PLEASE take the time to tell me WHY you voted no.
________________________________________________

http://www.heroesofnewerth.com/images/items/Item_Scarab.jpg
Scarab - 50% Mana Regeneration - 325 gold
+
http://www.heroesofnewerth.com/images/items/Item_MajorTotem.jpg
Beastheart - +4 Strenght/Agility/Intelligence - 540 gold

+

http://honwiki.net/w/images/d/d6/Snake_Braceletitem.gif
Snake Bracelet - 25% Evasion - 1800 gold

=

http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/resource_images/8/icons_7153_btn.jpg
Manavoid - 2715 gold



________________________________________________



http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/resource_images/8/icons_7153_btn.jpg Manavoid

75% Mana Regeneration
+6 Strength/Agility/Intelligence
Void - Passive


________________________________________________

Depreciated version.
Void - gives you 30% chance to evade attacks made agaisnt you. For every attack evaded you restore 3% of your total mana if the attacker is a hero and 1% if the attacker is a creep.

ALTERNATE VERSION

Void - gives you 30% chance to evade attacks made agaisnt you. For every attack evaded you gain 3 intelligence for 10 seconds. The effect stacks but the duration does not reset.




________________________________________________

Changelog
Febuary 19 2012 - Modified added +1 to all stats. (For a total of +6)
Febuary 6 2012 - Changed Beasthearth to Major Totem
November 9 2010 - Alternate "Void" added, two possibilities to chose from.
October 3 2009 - Ranged and melees always regen 3% agaisnt other heroes attacks.
October 2 2009 - Changed icon lolol
Septembre 28 2009 - Changed autoattacks to attacks. :P
Septembre 27 2009 - Changed % to fit melee and ranged heroes.
Septembre 25 2009 - Added creep and hero % distinction. (4% for heroes, 2% for creeps)
Septembre 23 2009 - Changed mana gain to a % of your total mana instead of a % of evaded damage.

[ThiaZ]

I like the CONCEPT..

But in praxis, i dont find it usefull.

Can't imagine a single hero i would buy it for, and it's very expensive for a int hero to buy. :)

Great idea though.

[deathdawn]

.. I know one hero I'd buy it with.. ELECTRICIAN. lol love it.

[Zoyzo]

T-Up :D

[sHoWTiMe]

cool concept, but might be too expensive to get.

[_swEEt]

take out the mana tube and make it cost less. then it would be better. i love the concept
i rekcon 2.8k is good for this item. mabye make the hp also like 250

[jintenshi]

so if it's not auto attack, no manavoid? O; that's weird. lolz. is it for letting creeps wack you or something

[Zuika]

a yes for the concept =)

[CrashLemon]

Changed Manatube to a Guardian Ring and reduced health to 250, I think it makes more sense.

As for the purpose, there's not a single item cept Snake Bracelet that gives Int heroes any dodge chance. It can be very usefull vs Agility Carries and it can also be used on melee heroes like Jeraziah as it gives health, armor and passive dodge.

[Wurzel]

i like it. really unique.

I liked it..

Not sure about the recipe components, but the concept is really cool.

[Hippie]

Really cool concept, like everyone else said. Legionnaire might also pick this up, what with his pitiful mana pool and Taunt.

[Grimace]

Really unique, good concept. T-up.

[NoobishNoob]

Why didn't I think of this... :(



Nevertheless, it would be awesome for strength tanks to buy, especially Electrician and Legionnaire like the above posters said, so unique and original concept, I like.


T-UP

[Inexorable1]

T-UP

But i think it needs some recipe change. I like the concept though. :D

[CrashLemon]

T-UP

But i think it needs some recipe change. I like the concept though. :D

I'm open to suggestions (Snake Bracelet must stay though)

[Mittsies]

Item components and general concept are incredible. Great job, T-UP.

[deathdawn]

I liked it better when the Item component contained the Manatube, now the components have nothing to do with mana.

[CrashLemon]

So far so good, changed Guardian Ring to Scarab, makes even more sense IMO.

[CrashLemon]

Bump.

[noodle0117]

makes sense
gonna make electrician and jereziah even more imbalanced than they are now

[CrashLemon]

Well, what if instead of being a % of the attacker's damage it would be a % of the player's total mana.

[Sabre]

I like it, simple, elegant, and useful.

[NinjaPants]

I like the idea, but it seems somewhat situational..?
I guess it could be useful since tank's don't really exist, and this would add survivability as well as mana gain.
Would you be getting this instead of/after a sac stone?
idk

[CrashLemon]

Well this item mostly gives you survivability while also granting a special mana regen mechanic. Very good for heroes like Electrician and Legionaire.

[Squonk]

So against heroes like madman, you gain all your mana back if he doesn't kill you first? Fine by me! T-Up! I would change the Scarab to a ring of the teacher, which would let the RotT be used in something other than Abyssal Skull, just gives the item more versatility

[CrashLemon]

When you play agaisnt magebane, you'll be amaze by this item's power.

[Isin]

so if it's not auto attack, no manavoid? O; that's weird. lolz. is it for letting creeps wack you or something

What? Auto attack = non-spell based forms of physical damage.

[CrashLemon]

Yeah well, every melee/ranged attacks made agaisnt you that you can evade can trigger manavoid.

[sailorpallas]

would make a nice mid game luxury item and i don;t thinkit is that expensive

+1

[CrashLemon]

Heroes like Axe will love this item with Helm of the Black Legion, you could go in the woods and regain all of your mana.

Also changed something.

[CrashLemon]

Guys keep it up already 56 votes wow! You guys have any idea on what I could change/add/remove?

I'm up for suggestions!

[KorbenDallas]

Hey Lemon, really cool late game Int item. Voted up! =D

[A`nub`is]

Very nice item, though it's not that useful on many heroes.

Electrician, Jereziah, Torturer, Madman and Dark Lady maybe.

[UrName_Sucks]

i voted no simply because of how ridiculously overpowered this would be on a hero like electrician

[CrashLemon]

Tweakin exists and you forgot that Truestrike > Manavoid. I was thinking of setting the mana regeneration to 1-2% for melee heroes and 3-4% for ranged heroes.

Making it more of a ranged item to survive against autoattacks.

[Hippie]

Meh, this item will be best on Legionnaire, not Electrician. I dunno what people are complaining about with Elec - Lego with infinite mana sounds much more deadly to me :P

[CrashLemon]

Meh, this item will be best on Legionnaire, not Electrician. I dunno what people are complaining about with Elec - Lego with infinite mana sounds much more deadly to me :P

Well the fact that Elec take's 50% damage when he has mana makes him the best tank in the game. If he has mana of course.

[CrashLemon]

Changed % to work differently on melee and ranged heroes as you normaly take more hits when you're a melee hero.

[Drasha]

Love the concept and more items is a good thing.

[Tyrando]

I like it, a luxury item for int heroes that help vs those carries lategame.

[CrashLemon]

Wonder if this thread is going to be moved to Item Suggestions.

[documents]

Good concept, although I wish there was a way to make it slightly cheaper.
Maybe a mighty blade?

[CrashLemon]

I think 1 Str = 16 HP so it would give 160 HP and making it awesome for tanks.

I'll see about that.

I was also thinking about Lifevoid... I was thinking I could change Manavoid to give mana and make a Lifevoid item to give HP and then you could merge both (like Sustainer).

Just an idea though.

[docterj208]

I won't vote no if you can answer this one question.


Other than possibly Legionairre, who else would want to use this item?

[CrashLemon]

Electrician, Pudge, Zephyr, Armadon, Demented Shaman (to an extent), Accursed

and everything that needs mana and is fighting agaisnt a carry/autoattacks team.

[Anosou]

Might be clearer if you phrased:

"Void gives you 30% chance to evade attacks made agaisnt you and restore 3% (1% for melee heroes) of your total mana if the attacker is a hero and 2% (0.5% for melee heroes) if the attacker is a creep."

like this:

"Void gives you 30% chance to evade attacks made agaisnt you. For every attack evaded you restore 3% (1% for melee heroes) of your total mana if the attacker is a hero and 2% (0.5% for melee heroes) if the attacker is a creep.

Anyway, definitely like the concept here. Does it evade only auto attacks or does it evade all kinds of spells too? Does it evade say... Soul Reaper's ultimate, Plague Rider's ultimate and Legionnaire's ultimate?

[CrashLemon]

Might be clearer if you phrased:

"Void gives you 30% chance to evade attacks made agaisnt you and restore 3% (1% for melee heroes) of your total mana if the attacker is a hero and 2% (0.5% for melee heroes) if the attacker is a creep."

like this:

"Void gives you 30% chance to evade attacks made agaisnt you. For every attack evaded you restore 3% (1% for melee heroes) of your total mana if the attacker is a hero and 2% (0.5% for melee heroes) if the attacker is a creep.

Anyway, definitely like the concept here. Does it evade only auto attacks or does it evade all kinds of spells too? Does it evade say... Soul Reaper's ultimate, Plague Rider's ultimate and Legionnaire's ultimate?


Changed the description of void with yours. Also, it doesn't evade spells, as it would be far too overpowered. It work as a normal evasion with a slight bonus and is more affordable than Wingbow.

[Anosou]

Changed the description of void with yours. Also, it doesn't evade spells, as it would be far too overpowered. It work as a normal evasion with a slight bonus and is more affordable than Wingbow.

That's what I thought, thanks! I like it and, while it might be further balanced, I voted yes.

[CrashLemon]

Balancing an item requires it to be played with first. Got 2 random T-Down, makes me sad.

[Midnightoil]

Beastheart seems useless in the recipe mby take it out to lower the costt

[Azpitt]

Im not sure why none noticed the usage for spammy tanks. Tack the health on from the beatheart and tanks will love it. Lego can spam taunt more, elec's shield will be nearing on god like, acc can use his shield more. I just dont understand the point of the snake bracelet. Seems to inflate the cost above what it needs.

[CrashLemon]

It's for the evasion of course!

[Nome]

Moving because I don't hate you

[rockchalk]

This item seems great early game, when you get harrassed. The problem with this is the price. 3275 gold.

This item seems lackluster late game, the evasion obviously helps, but the benefits should scale with level or something, or possibly make it upgraded.

Snake bracelet is the only downside i see in this.

[CrashLemon]

Snake bracelet is in itself a very high cost item and if I want to include evasion I guess I "have" to include the bracelet...

If you have any other ideas though. (3% mana is a lot late game, heroes with 1500 mana get around 45 mana per evasion).

[Isin]

Why so much less for melee heroes? You realize that melee heroes have much less mana, so it really is quite balanced for them?

[Nome]

Melee heroes would need this item more than ranged heroes yo. Should make bonuses equal.

[Kaliuz]

Interesting idea... Improves tankability and great mana regen. Only issue is that, for STR Melee heroes, which would make the best use of this item, the mana regen is quite weak IMO. It regens much less than for ranged heroes, and what's even worse, regens a % of the max mana pool. STR heroes usually have a ridiculous mana pool. So 0.5% of 400 mana would give incredible 2 mana per evasion. Not worth it, you see?

Maybe you should add a constant mana regen and tweak the %-based regen. Something like 5 + 1% for melee and 10 + 2% for ranged. This would make it useful early game, and not useless late-game.

Also, maybe it would be better to replace Beastheart with Point booster, that increases both HP and MP, synergizing much more with both this item's functions of tankability and mana regen.

Anyway, great idea. Thumbs up :)

[CrashLemon]

Why so much less for melee heroes? You realize that melee heroes have much less mana, so it really is quite balanced for them?

You made me realize something, my point was that melee heroes get hit way more often by creeps hence regenerating their mana a lot faster.

Fixed it, now heroes always gain 3% when evading other hero attacks. (Still 0.5% for melee against creeps and 2% for ranged)

[Nome]

You made me realize something, my point was that melee heroes get hit way more often by creeps hence regenerating their mana a lot faster. What I wasn't realizing is that I scaled the % from hero damage too which is an error...

Fixed it, now heroes always gain 3% when evading hero attacks. (Still 0.5% for melee against creeps and 2% for ranged)

So your reasoning is that you're going to castrate this item for melee heroes because they're going to be tanking creeps? Why would a melee hero tank creeps?

[Sabre]

Thats some pretty fail reasoning.

[CrashLemon]

Edit: Error, read next post.

[CrashLemon]

So your reasoning is that you're going to castrate this item for melee heroes because they're going to be tanking creeps? Why would a melee hero tank creeps?

Makes more sense the way you say it, I was trying to find a way to make heroes like axe and elec benefit less from this item but it seems like my reasoning failed...

Although I had another idea, using spells or channeling a spell would interrupt the evasive ability from this item, making it a true sruvival item. I'm still thinking about ways to make it more balanced with heroes that really depends on mana useage and are often focused.

But then... I also think the item is fine as it is now.

(Changed it so attacks made from creeps regenerates 1% for all heroes)

[CallofDuty5]

if its going to costa couple of grand, it might as well be a better int item/ be more specific
at the moment the items seem to do entirely different things
cant think of anyone a general type item like this is worth getting on

[Puchi]

I like this item, it would work very well in synergy with harkon's blade on a hard carry. but i most say that the area's of use is very limited

[delraith]

I like the concept. T-up, but...

The Behemoth's Heart part of it is a little strange to me, I think something like an Ultimate Orb would be better. An Ultimate Orb still fulfills the survival role for some extra hp as well as some armor, but the main reason is that it makes the item more multi-use as appose to a fairly cut and dried survivability item. Survivability items are great, don't get me wrong, but there are other items out there that I'd like to get over this one, namely Frostfield Plate or Cyclone Stick/Euls.

Basically what I'm saying is the item you're proposing to implement isn't going to be as useful as certain other items in terms of survivability. If you're being chased you just use Euls and pop cyclone on them and run away. If you're tanking you let Frostfield do it's job and reduce all phys damage by roughly 50%, and when that doesn't work use your slow aoe and try to run. These items also offer a good deal in increasing your lethality as a caster due to their inherent INT bonuses (mana pool and regen, as well as attack damage on INT heroes), and the regen offered by Mana Void is only viable if you're being ff'd like none other.

[noodle0117]

electrician would become GODLIKE with this item.

[CrashLemon]

Good item vs Magebane.

[Jennifer1]

I really like this idea but I agree about changing the heart out for ultimate orb.

Snake bracelet needs to be in more recipes for sure though.

[holytoledo]

Really cool concept, like everyone else said. Legionnaire might also pick this up, what with his pitiful mana pool and Taunt.

Legionnaire doesn't want the dodge though, he wants people to hit him :p

[Trilles]

GOOD ONE AGAIN ! rocking over the suggestions =)

[GGreenBass]

...why is there a beastheart in there?

[CrashLemon]

Legionnaire doesn't want the dodge though, he wants people to hit him :p

Legio wants to dodge, his whirlwind procs when the enemy start the attacking animation, not when they land a hit.

[PinkFlamingo]

Voted no, it is designed for a tanking hero that needs mana(mainly electrician). Also, it is made up of relatively cheap pieces, thus it would be fairly easy to get. This would make electrician a god, and would be a luxury item for anyone else.

[Sidecash1]

I voted yes since i want mages to get evasion which makes carriers do less dmg

[magnifier]

very very nice. I like it. Though I agree that it should have an ultimate orb instead of beastheart. Thumps up, up and away!

[Varp]

Nice concept.
Good item for Electrician as many people say, but might work for Torturer and Defiler too.

[Yayformee]

Just change beastheart to 2 major totems, that way, they'll actually have usage in the game. and the health/armor/manapool boost from stats looks good, plus it's only 20 less gold.

[yyr_]

i dont know why most intels would like to be tanking, the %gain kinda defeats the purpose of getting an item that keeps you from taking damage.

Also, you cant get it on axe because now you dodging 25% of attacks so you cant spin? or does spin proc before dodge?

Low mana pool makes this item less worthwhile, hence better for intels, who wouldnt want to get hit...

I didnt T-up or down, because the idea has potential, keep working with it =)

[kamimage]

am voteing yes cos i think it would be a good item and elec could use the buff :)
i DO think 2 major totems, or a glow stone would be better

[Jesus]

Didn't vote yet. I like the concept but its not useful in practise... The numbers need changing. I'm not suggesting it should be like this, or that its balanced but it would be cool that it stole the mana from the attacker too. Even then... not that good, the problem is the 30% chance IMO.

[Lii1]

Interesting but this is only good on electrician...

and electrician is bad and everyone ignores him after his grip ability.

[ThundeRbluff]

awsome idea

[Bearsmith]

This item is really only good on two heroes I can think of, namely legionnare and electrician. (I could also see it working on accursed, depending on the game.)

However, that's fine. Legionnare really doesn't need anything besides a portal key and electrician... does he even need anything? This item will help flesh out their core items a bit.

Besides, does it really matter if it only benefits a few heroes? I never see anyone but puppet master's use harkon's blade, and don't even get me started on nome's wisdom. Niche items have their place.

[resp]

pretty interesting concept. This suggestion I'd like to see in game ;) as there arent any defend(purely defensive, not talking about disabling)-against-that-autoattacking-carry items, xcept barbed maybe and moar hp
edit: maybe make it 100% passive regen to be abit more appealing, not 100% situational and for only a few heroes

[nahmad]

I like the idea tbh, seems an amazing item on electrician as well. His mana shield just keeps getting restored, especially good if he finds himself 1v1 with an auto attacking hero like arachna :D

[ORTADANYARAK]

ıt s not usefull... :S

[Lo12d_Nav]

Oh my god this item is amazing... I really like the concept. Only thing I would say is to make it a hell of a lot cheaper by making it an auto-combine recipe with a Pickled Brain and a Snake Bracelet. That way it self-synergizes by increasing your mana pool so that you regen more when you evade. Seriously though, great idea I really like this item.

[FreiBierFred]

:tort: will love it, as he needs survivability and later on in the game massive amounts of mana.

[CrashLemon]

Here's my new idea, instead of giving back a % of your mana, it'll give you some intelligence for 10 seconds (effect stacks).

----

Void gives you 30% chance to evade attacks made agaisnt you. For every attack evaded you gain 2 intelligence for 10 seconds. The effect stacks but the duration does not reset.

[FranticFrog]

Voted no.
There are several things I don't like about the concept.
1) I don't want the polly in my team to farm this not exactly cheap item.
2) Not the Tempest either.

In my opinion there are a lot of items WAY more worthy for nearly every intelligence hero out there. Also there is Void Talisman out there already against Auto-Attacking Heros. And last but not least: I don't like the idea of buffing savage mace (not even the little buff, it would receive by another evasion item introduced)

[zajoman]

http://www.sendspace.com/file/3vyzx0

Put this file into your Heroes of Newerth/game directory (where resources0.s2z is) and run the game. The item is in the protection shop. Enjoy.

My thoughts... For its price, it doesn't do much and the mana regain isn't that much noticeable, at least not on Soul Reaper who I tested it with.

[GauntElakor]

Voted yes cause the idea is awesome (and I love elec)
There are some things you should change tough:
1) Remove the beastheart and add brain or two totems
2) Increase the mana gained or the evasion chance(preferably mana gain)

Also, dont make the gain INT version. For 10 sec its not that effective as its a static number.

[Calcifer]

The real thing I dislike about it is that you can just go into a wave of creeps and get a massive massive buff or restore all of your mana for a very low cost in real terms. Would make casters who could farm this item very powerful indeed as they would never have mana problems again!

[zajoman]

The real thing I dislike about it is that you can just go into a wave of creeps and get a massive massive buff or restore all of your mana for a very low cost in real terms. Would make casters who could farm this item very powerful indeed as they would never have mana problems again!

Have you tested it in practice? It doesn't work like that.

[CrashLemon]

http://www.sendspace.com/file/3vyzx0

Put this file into your Heroes of Newerth/game directory (where resources0.s2z is) and run the game. The item is in the protection shop. Enjoy.

My thoughts... For its price, it doesn't do much and the mana regain isn't that much noticeable, at least not on Soul Reaper who I tested it with.

Thanks zajoman, I've quoted your post in the first page.

[zajoman]

Welcome. :)


Interesting but this is only good on electrician... and electrician is bad and everyone ignores him after his grip ability.

That's why he is often picked in competitive play?

[ZyV]

Voted yes BUT I'm not very happy with VOID.

I suggest something along theese lines :

For every hero attack evaded you gain 1 charge (need some cap).

Active VOID, you consume all charges and gain X amount of mana per charge OR you gain +Z% of mana regen for Y seconds per charge.

[BiggDogg]

Cool item concept, however, making an item that would only be effective on Elec or Lego(I don't even think i would get this on lego) is a little bit of a stretch.

[PowidL]

Carry Int! :O:wret:

[Raycrash]

How bout changing it that it costs mana to evade the autoattacks ? but without the % chance

So as long as you got mana AA will miss (maybe every 5th or so should still hit so it wont get op)

[GGreenBass]

How many heroes in this game can tank powerful auto-attacks reliably for a decent amount of time
~AND~
take advantage of every small drop of extra mana they're given?

It certainly isn't the average INT hero, oh no.
This would be used for TANKS.

Can you imagine a Devourer with evasion and even MORE mana?
Or a Balphagor?
Or hell, even a Pebbles?

This will certainly turn tanks into anti-carries if carries flat out GIVE these heroes mana, as well as deal 30% less pain-output.

Am I opposed to the idea? Not quite ;) But this'll only serve to put actual int heroes even further away from late game usefulness :( So no vote from me.

[CrashLemon]

Forgot to post it, but I wrote an alternate version of the passive that, instead of giving mana, it would give intellect for short duration.

[CptnUtility]

Savage mace, nuff said

[FiskOgHon]

How can anyone say this item isn't useful? It would be the best tanking item in the game while giving you mana regen :s

Evasion is a huge boost to survivability and it scales to become better the more you got. Coupled with 250 hp and mana regen this item will give every tank everything he needs.

This item get's dangerously close to HotBL and we all know how that item is for balance.

I think you need something other than beast heart so the item doesn't pack nearly the same amount of hp.

It's a good idea, i'm just not sure that we need the item in any form in the game though.

[Zerazar]

I like the idea. Very good for Tort/Electrician/Artesia(?)/Defiler. Might even be a cool alternative to HotBL on some other heroes not mentioned.

Don't know anything about the numbers though, but cool concept.

[Token]

i reckon swap the beastheart for a major totem, dropping the price to a reasonable level for a support to farm

[CrashLemon]

There, changed beasthearth to major totem.

[CrashLemon]

Also, with the recent addition of gravekeeper, this is an item I'd invest in with this hero.