Essence Transducer (Rune-based Item)

[Scowndrul]

The Essence Transducer would be an alternative or supplement to using a bottle. When gathering runes, instead of granting the ability to store the rune, it would instead bestow permanant bonuses to the wielder based on how many runes has been stored inside of it. The rune would be captured within the Essence Transducer, consuming the rune and adding a charge to the item, while not giving the rune's benefit.

http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/resource_images/13/icons_12496_btn.jpg - The Essence Transducer (900)

Stats:
+1 HP regeneration per second
+0.25 mana regeneration per second (does not stack with other hard mana regeneration)

At its core, the Essence Transducer would provide little benefit. Each rune absorbed by the item adds one charge, and it has a maximum of 5 charges. Since the item's effect is independent of the rune gathered, and since the item is in fact a transducer, the benefits from each rune will be equally represented.

For each charge present on the Essence Transducer, the wielder will gain 1 HP regeneration per second, 0.4 mana regeneration per second (to account for the transduction of the Regeneration rune), 2 movement speed that stacks with other forms of movement (to account for Haste), 2% evasion (to account for Illusion), +4 damage (to account for Double Damage), and the ability to target self (or double press) to go invisible for 0.75 seconds (accounts for Invisibility).

Thus, at 5 charges, the item would provide:
-6 HP regeneration per second
-2.25 mana regeneration per second (does not stack with other hard mana regeneration)
-10 stackable movement speed
-10% evasion
-3.75 second activatable invisibility with a 30s cooldown (can not be used for 2 seconds within taking damage to prevent disjointing abuses)
-20 damage

It is easy to see that this item provides a lot of benefits for a low price, but considering the work and sacrifice that has to go into it (12 minutes at the EARLIEST for full benefits, granted no other items are bought, and the lane is still able to farm the required gold in 2 minutes, as well as not getting to use the runes compiled inside of it) the item seems to be powerful for the price. This is also granted that the team has perfect rune control and never uses the rune for its inherent ability, and instead places it within the Essence Transducer.

Currently, I am looking for player's views on the CONCEPT of this item, and not necessarily the numbers. I would like to see an alternative to bottles being used in order to give players more options, as well as take some of the luck out of runes (finding a regeneration when at full HP, Illusion before trying to Kongor, etc.).

Be sure to vote, and please leave some feedback along with it! Thanks!


Change Log:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(2-15-11)
Added stats for Double Damage componant
Added initial HP and Mana regeneration to make it a reasonable alternative to bottle
Lowered the number of charges needed to make it effective earlier (while ganking takes place)
(4-25-11)
Addressed disjoint abuse
Added cooldown for invisibility active

[Woopdeedoo]

I like the concept a lot. I've always loved the fact that runes are an important resource, and this would make them even more so and for a longer time. It might be used more on mid heroes who currently aren't very dependent on rune control. Though I wonder how often the benefit of a transducer charge would be higher than using the rune itself. it would depend on the player's judgement, which I see as another plus.

Maybe cap the amount of charges the item can hold and allow raising the cap by upgrading it with additional recipes or even make a level 2 transducer by combining two level 1 transducers. Or something like that.

The bottle already serves a similar role. It might be a good thing for it to have some competition. Or perhaps not, I don't know, I think it would need testing.

[Scowndrul]

My clanmate and I had a discussion about this item, and he said the same thing you did about it being useful on heroes that go mid and are not reliant on bottles. I see this also as a supplement to the bottle. If your team has great rune control, and you are winning the lane, it is possible to sub a rune in the bottle for a rune in the transducer. It also does cap out at 5 charges currently. If enough support for the item is raised, talk of upgrading it could come into play. Thanks for the feedback!

[Good_Apollo]

I'd rather have an item that has the ability to forgo the rune's effects and instead transmute to gold.

[MimicU]

You sir are a genius. You're ideas kick ass

[Scowndrul]

Thanks! ^^

[superdeluxxe]

Heh, I'd actually like to try this out. When I read the evasion per charge I kind of thought that was a bit much but, at max 5 charges it weighs out.

nice idea dude

[TheMadman]

Bottle is made for early regen on mids/roamers who plan on ganking a lot. Call me out if that's a horrible description but I think I covered it.

Carry mids who aren't mana reliant don't get bottles, they ignore runes or take them when they get them. These non-bottle mids won't go out of their way to buy something which only takes away from their farm and provides minimum benefits early and requires time spent not farming to get it up to full potential. They could just as easily start into their next item and they wouldn't be 900 gold behind on it.

Additionally, this item peaks in effectiveness at around 15 minutes time, giving that you farm it as fast as possible, getting every lasthit in the first few wave. That means it takes longer to get than bottle because it's more expensive, but it doesn't provide the immediate results of a bottle. This means that players have to invest 900 gold early in the game, with very few immediate returns, in order to have a grab-bag of bonuses 10 minutes later, some of which they won't need. By 15 minutes they could be that much closer to their next item, which is probably going to be build specific.

I like the idea, it's a cool item, but I probably wouldn't buy it. Bottle is better early and is OK most of the game as it provides % based regen and alows you to save runes, which becomes especially useful on carries lategame for dd runes and illusion runes.

I haven't voted yet, I want to see what OP says. He needs to sell us this item by telling me I should buy it on hero "x". If I can see it fitting into my build for whatever characters or character archetypes he suggests then I'll upvote

[Scowndrul]

Alright TheMadman, I think I have an argument and a list of heroes that will sway you to my side.

As many people have pointed out, this item is NOT for everyone, and is not a bottle replacement. Nothing can beat a bottle at what it does. However, rune control is imperative whether it is needed to refill the bottle or not. A roaming mid hero vs a hero that does not need it is still dangerous to the team, and if the rune isn't at least contested, this can be extremely detrimental to the team.

While considering this item remember:
-The Essence Transducer is effective from even having even just one charge, providing benefits equal to that of a Trinket of Restoration and a Ring of the Teacher. -Still on the one-charge topic, if the hero is fleeing, 0.75 seconds of invisibility is enough to avoid that last hit from an enemy ranged attacker. Invisible targets disjoint auto attacks.
-At 2 charges, the item would provide the highest hard-mana regeneration in the game, with 1.05 per second. Even Nome's Wisdom is not quite this high.
-At 2 charges, the item would provide almost as much damage as a Punchdagger, another 500 gold investment. So at 2 charges, the item has Ring of the Teacher covered (500 gold, but does not have aura or armor componant), Trinket of Restoration (350 gold), and Punchdagger (500 gold). Suddenly, this 900 gold investment does not seem so bad.
-At 3 charges, ganking with the 2.25 second invisibility is possible if the enemy is in lane, and does not have a ward immediately outside of it.

Heroes that could utilize this item well include:
-Beastwood
-Gladiator
-Electrician
-Forsaken Archer
-Slither (ward)
-Dr Repulsor (possibly, he was on the line for me)

These heroes either do not rely heavily on mana, or have a means to get it back. They also can farm very quickly, so it would be feasible for them to get this item in time for it to be useful. These heroes are also great gankers without the use of a rune. All of them can use every attribute given by the Essence Transducer.

Heroes that MAY get this item:
-Voodoo Jester
-Vindicator (on the line between here and NOT for)
-Witch Slayer
-Plague Rider
-Someone who casts often, but not so often that hard mana regeneration does not cover the cost of the spell.

Though less useful on these heroes, it has SOME potential. These heroes can skill a bit differently than normal to account for the additional mana regeneration they can obtain. They farm a bit slower, so it is less useful on them than the above stated heroes. On these heroes, it becomes more of an item of convenience than one that is super-beneficial. These heroes may get it after getting a more primary item, and may only end the game with 2 or 3 charges, just for the invisibility and the mana regeneration aspects.

Heroes this item is NOT for:
-Wretched Hag
-Thunderbringer
-Defiler
-Heroes that are very mana-dependent and need a lot in a hurry. Also, heroes that are more prone to getting whacked for all of their health from one auto attack.

Heroes that have spells they need to cast often, who roam and gank, or who spam costlier spells fall into this category. A bottle will outshine this item every single time. If these people do get this item, it would be solely for the mana regeneration, but not really worth their time or the expense of the rune.

I think I have given a fairly convincing argument here, and given some heroes that can use this item well. It is my dream (haha they have a website called dream) to get something implemented into HoN. It would really make it MY game, because I have some tangible thing I can point at and say, "that was my idea!"

Anyway, hopefully I have earned your vote!

[TheMadman]

Ehh Ok w/e I'll upvote it

[Rkey]

Yeah, cap is needed, or else it'd be super OP lol XD

Sounds really cool.

[Scowndrul]

Bump

[Connect]

Really nice. I think this should would be very useful for some mid heroes, instead of bottle. T-up for sure.

In my opinion you should forget the invis though. Just don't like it. And the evasion should go too. S2 is trying to make the game have as little "luck" based stuff as possible.

That's just my 2 cents. You still got my vote for the great idea though.

Ps, you should take away the "-" infront of the values the item has. It looks like it's actually meant in negative. Like minus 20 damage.

[dejori]

Dig the concept.

Activating it should remove a charge. Also, you haven't noted what the active's cooldown would be; I recommend a nice round thirty seconds.

I can't think of a good reason for the mana regen not to stack with other 'hard mana regen.' If that would be imba, nerf it rather than introduce an oddly non-stacking item.

[Scowndrul]

Dig the concept.

Activating it should remove a charge. Also, you haven't noted what the active's cooldown would be; I recommend a nice round thirty seconds.

I can't think of a good reason for the mana regen not to stack with other 'hard mana regen.' If that would be imba, nerf it rather than introduce an oddly non-stacking item.

Hard mana regen items don't stack in any other case. Nome's does not stack with Ring of the Teacher as far as the mana regeneration goes. I was just following suit.

[dejori]

Nome's does not stack with Ring of the Teacher as far as the mana regeneration goes. I was just following suit.

Makes sense. Consider that Abyssal's mana regen and armor don't stack with Nome's nor with RotT's; it's because they're all using the RotT aura. They all stack with Glacius's mana regen and with the charge-based regen in sac stone, the only non-RotT sources of non-percentile mana regen*. In my opinion, it's more consistent for this item to stack with them as well.

* I'm pretty sure, normally I would test this before posting but I'm at work atm. check it out if you can

[CatHound22]

Sounds like a good idea, but stealth for that long may be a little OP depending on the cool down of the Essence Transduce which I don't think I'd seen that posted any where. Good idea though I would use it.

[Akaitashi]

This is cool idea! :D HoN should add some more items on my think :)

[Scowndrul]

Bump to push for "popular".

[MadnessHero]

Well thought out item.

[Bwned]

Sounds like a great item, I can see myself getting this on a side lane if mid isn't doing too well to prevent the opposing mid from getting it.

Sounds like alot of fun aswell since more people will want the precious runes.

[mcfabulous]

I think the concept of this item is nice, but I think just having someone ninja every rune til they're full would be kind of a bummer.

Maybe it would be better if (didnt read other peoples posts to know if this was said) since there is 5 runes / 5 charges, require 1 of each kind so it takes a little while to build it up and once a rune is taken it doesnt keep getting taken and can serve a more immediate purpose.

[Scowndrul]

I think the concept of this item is nice, but I think just having someone ninja every rune til they're full would be kind of a bummer.

Maybe it would be better if (didnt read other peoples posts to know if this was said) since there is 5 runes / 5 charges, require 1 of each kind so it takes a little while to build it up and once a rune is taken it doesnt keep getting taken and can serve a more immediate purpose.

The reason that I wouldn't like this change is because of the randomness of runes. It would be very difficult to find one of each throughout the course of the game. A major complaint that I have gotten is that consuming the rune in the transducer forgoes the rune's effect. A possible change that could be made to address this would be that a consumed rune still gives it's effect, just immediately as if the rune had just been grabbed. This would align it more with bottle, since the bottle provides benefits without forgoing the rune's effect. However, the bottle's benefits are limited to early game, whereas the Essence Transducer's effects are not. If the change was made to not forgo the rune's effects, the price of the item would have to be increased to match this additional function.

[CaptainKilla]

I play mid as valk, and I usually rush bottle so that I can roam with the ability to take damage and use mana without worrying about it. This item is a really cool idea for heros like Flint as he isn't a roamer and needs to farm mid for the first 15-20 mins. It is a great idea and will make warding runes and rune hoarding a bigger part of the game. I feel in that lower tier games, rune hoarding is an unknown skill.

[Alten]

Fantastic idea. :)

I feel that you're right on its cost, though. At 5 charges, this item becomes worth around 3.5 k gold, which is kind of insane for the price (despite the loss of a rune). I would suggest that, it loses 1-2 charges upon dying (1 for 1-3 charges, 2 for 4-5) or it has a cost increase of 200-400 gold.

[SilhouetteX]

I just dont understand it. There are so many good items in the popular suggested section and none have been implemented in such a long time. Does S2 just ignore this section of the forum or is there a reason why they aren't putting any new and interesting items into the game?

[Pazuzu]

I just dont understand it. There are so many good items in the popular suggested section and none have been implemented in such a long time. Does S2 just ignore this section of the forum or is there a reason why they aren't putting any new and interesting items into the game?
Think about it this way. When ever S2 implements a new Item it drastically changes the game Look at bulwok everyone rushes that item and it makes towers melt like butter.

For all we know this item or any other item in this section could be in the SBT right now.

[Smichi]

Make the charges -1 when no Rune has been stored for >X mins or upon death -1 charge or something like that.

[Omega]

Adds variability to the impact of runes on the game without lessening the odds of getting each individual rune (which has caused some concern with regards to balance/chance).

Love it! :D T-up

[Nemesis10549]

+1 for originality

[shade0o]

I like it, but could make it hold a rune also, then if you need to use it you can and if you dont within a set timer (say 60seconds) it consumes it adding the charge.
would also stop peopel going getting a rune at say 5:58, and waiting for the 6:00 spawn

[Vulcan]

This item is actually ridiculously awesome, what i was thinking to give it a very minor buff would be to start it with 2+ all stats, and to give +3 m/s per rune, rather than just 2. Just my 2 cents to make the 900 gold worth it in the short run.

[Zarothe]

An item that requires 10 minutes of perfect rune control seems kinda bad. Imo the stats need a massive buff. I realize it is only 900 gold but a 10 minute investment in ANYTHING is quite the huge gamble, I would say it is an even bigger gamble than the old sac stone. You also have to realize that this is basically a item that you buy to keep for the rest of the game so it is gonna take up an item slot. Needs a massive buff imo.

[Scowndrul]

Honestly though, it isn't a 10 minute investment, it just takes at minimum that long for the item to reach its maximum potential. The time actually spent hounding the runes is probably more like 1 minute.

Additionally, say a support hero farms this item that is working the side lane and decides to assist with rune control. The mid hero may go top and the rune may spawn bottom in the arms of the supporting cast. If they get just 2 runes in the course of doing this, that support hero is going to have a decent item that gives 3 hp regen and an extra 1.05 mana regeneration, not to mention the 1.5 seconds of invisibility and some additional stats.

That is just early game. How often mid-late game do people happen upon random runes while warding. The item's usefulness expands beyond just a mid hero if you ask me. Then again, I'm biased :D

But who knows, it's still a concept. Maybe it does need a buff. I haven't had a chance to test it because it doesn't exist haha.

[Smichi]

Bump

[Strayreaper]

1. It is 8 minutes minimum to get 5 charges not 10.
- e.g. you get the item at 3:55, grab the first rune at 4:00. 2nd at 6mins, 3rd at 8mins, 4th at 10mins and 5th at 12 mins.
Takes 8 minutes (from 4-12mins) to get 5 charges.

I like the item, but numbers would definitely need to change for the invis. Perhaps 0.2-0.3 seconds per charge and with a 90-120 second cooldown.

[Scowndrul]

I wonder if this item has even been considered. As people who have read any of my suggestions know, it has been a dream of mine to have ANY idea of mine implemented into the game, and I feel like this item has the strongest potential.

[Smichi]

How about this?
Consuming a rune adds one charge to the item
Activating the item removes one charge and gives the wearer the charged version of the transducer for XY time.

(this removes the grinding of runes for full potential)

[Sandmonkeyz]

Really nice. I think this should would be very useful for some mid heroes, instead of bottle. T-up for sure.

In my opinion you should forget the invis though. Just don't like it. And the evasion should go too. S2 is trying to make the game have as little "luck" based stuff as possible.

That's just my 2 cents. You still got my vote for the great idea though.

Ps, you should take away the "-" infront of the values the item has. It looks like it's actually meant in negative. Like minus 20 damage.

Oh NO!!!!!
They are getting rid of the luck! Blacksmith hide HIDE!!!!

I like the idea but the numbers need tweaking, maybe when you buy it it starts with one charge and has no charge max, with smaller gains.
Or each rune only adds its essence. like dd give +5 damage permanently to your hero and not as an item buff but a perma increase. that way only 1 bottled at a time and can be used by any hero for a minor perma buff (mid dw gives the dd to carry, while using the regens for himself, or player givignt he regens to a dr so he has op mana regen late game)

[Idejder]

If you were to put a stat/proc/event/something on the item instead of Evasion in place of the Illusion rune, what would it be? I can say for sure Evasion would never make the cut, especially 2% evasion. That just leaves an extremely low feeling in the attackers mind when they don't kill you because of a 2% proc. Sure, you get a high, but you did not make a good play to get that high, you just got really lucky. We want to avoid the situations like that, so I suggest finding another creative stat to put in it's place.

[LoveDuckie]

If you were to put a stat/proc/event/something on the item instead of Evasion in place of the Illusion rune, what would it be? I can say for sure Evasion would never make the cut, especially 2% evasion. That just leaves an extremely low feeling in the attackers mind when they don't kill you because of a 2% proc. Sure, you get a high, but you did not make a good play to get that high, you just got really lucky. We want to avoid the situations like that, so I suggest finding another creative stat to put in it's place.

I've got an idea for a creative stat that catches the essence of an illusion rune (numbers are just placeholder - I don't know how to balance a game):
For every charge you gain you have a 5% chance to proc an extra attack at 50% damage on attack.

This would work like gemini's passive and of course wouldn't stack with it. For visual effects I'm thinking a blurred (because of extreme speed) illusion jumps out of you to perform the attack.

[Scowndrul]

First of all, I'd like to say that having an S2 employee leave a comment on my item, in any way, shape, or form, has started my day off magnificently. That being said, I have been contemplating what I would change the Illusion rune's stat to on the Essence Transducer.

My initial thoughts are to go with a sort of Dopplewalk mechanic akin to Phantom Lancer from DotA, where an illusion is left behind following the previous order before the user went invisible. The illusion could last a time equal to the invisibility. This is probably not the best idea, as a hero using this item to gank may have it feel sort of clunky to go invisible without having the illusion ruin everything.

After considering what else an illusion rune is used for, I thought that another good idea may be to leave behind some vision at an area for a time after going invisible. The vision would be hero-range vision, that does not see through trees, just as an illusion could do if walked over to that spot. However, this eliminates the safety of scouting with an illusion, as the hero has to be in the area before they can activate it, and it would need to have a significant duration for the risk, as well as the loss of the invisibility cooldown as well. Something like 15-20 seconds of vision may be appropriate.

A third idea that came to mind is to change the function of the item for the 2 seconds that invisibility is unusable. It would instead create an illusion that is increasingly powerful with more charges.

Another option, that has been suggested by LoveDuckie, would be to add a secondary attack like Gemini's. However, I would not make this a chance to activate, I would say make it active for 2,4,6,8,10 seconds, with a damage addition of 20%, that activates at the same time as the invisibility, but lasts longer. This gives it the chance to be used in a gank in conjunction with the invisibility aspect because it lasts longer.

If this mechanic would be too difficult to add for a time frame, just give an increase in attack speed for the duration. Since illusions deal 33% of hero damage, and there are 2 of them, this could amount to 66% increase in base damage. Since things like Savage Mace do not activate from illusion attacks, make it a 10,20,30,40,50% attack speed increase.

I'd love to hear your opinion on some of these changes, and I'll update the main page as soon as I get some feedback.