View Full Version : Stopping Scout/NH in low lvl pubs
02-11-2011, 02:36 AM
I know some people are going to tell me this is easy to do, and I feel like it should be, but I need some help. Here goes nothin'.
Lately I have seen a lot of scouts and nighthounds as carries, for some reason always against me. Their invisiblity skills make them hard to gank, so they eventually are able to farm to a point where they become pretty unstoppable. My teams try to gank but it never seems to succeed. The only times we might end up killing them is occasionally in a teamfight if we have some disables, and then thats still usually not enough. Added to that, my braindead non-invis carries (think flint or FA) think they can farm woods with impunity even after they get raped a couple of times.
Please keep in mind these are lower level pubs I'm playing in right now. I usually play support heroes, and I am almost always the ONLY person buying sight wards, much less anything else. Good teamwork is also not something I can depend on.
Is there anything I can do, more or less solo, to try to stop these guys? Any strategy that my team might be likely to actually listen to? Also, for countering invisibility, what items are best? Low pubs LOVE bound eyes, but I prefer rev wards.
There has got to be a way, since I know these heroes are not so favored at higher levels. Please, help me pound these jerks into the dust. :scou:
02-11-2011, 03:04 AM
Take Wards of Revelation when ganking. If you counterward often enough, you'll have the Ward of Revelation near the rune so you can see when they enter the jungle.
Thing is, it's a vigilance thing with invisibility so be prepared to dump a lot of money into it at low level pubs to achieve the same effect as idiots will be idiots.
02-11-2011, 03:11 AM
Play defensive supports like Accursed or Jeraziah. Buy Eye. Don't die.
Dust is better than Revs for Ganking. Revs are better than Dust for avoiding enemy initiations. Theres no better.
You buy Dust if you know where the enemy is and want to stop them from turning invisible.
You buy Revs if you don't know where they are and want to stop them from wrecking your backline (e.g. while pushing).
02-11-2011, 03:35 AM
Ganking should always be done with Dust, doing it with Rev Wards doesn't help one bit.
02-11-2011, 04:39 AM
Simple pushstrats. :poll::defi::balp::deme::soulr::tort:
Heroes that can reveal invis. :arac::pest:
Items. :WardOfRevelation::Puzzlebox::BoundEye::KuldrasShe epstick::DustOfRevelation::BarbedArmor::Stormspiri t::VoidTalisman:
02-11-2011, 06:13 AM
:AssassinShroud: Because this is low lvl pubs anyway.
02-11-2011, 07:30 AM
Aside from previously stated, here's what I generally do when I'm support and there's a scout/nh on other team. It especially works in low level pubs, and even decent level pubs, because even if a decent player is well aware of how easily he can be countered like this, he doesn't expect it to happen in a low level pub.
When both teams group up for a teamfight (like middle, when one team is pushing into tower and another is defending), drop a blue ward in the river. In any situation where both teams are dancing around a central point waiting for the right time to intiate, drop a blue ward in the middle. Scouts/NHs are constantly trying to scout out ahead to provide vision or to setup a teamfight with a cloud/eye. They really never expect the blue ward. It's a really easy way to get a kill on Scout/NH. Even retards know how to stun the invis dude who might not be visible for that much longer.
Same applies for any invis hero really. Got a pesky codex fayde that instantly takes out one of your squishies? Drop a blue ward pre-team fight. If they don't show up, it's because they've learned their lesson, and you've severely neutered their initiation. You get a quick pick on an invis hero, since they generally scout out alittle bit ahead of the team, and are sorely out of position if caught. In low level, his team probably jumps in to save him, which is poor initiation on their part, since now they're fighting 4v5, and you're golden.
Now, this doesn't really work against better players. Good supports drop blue/reg wards like crazy before teamfights to grant extended vision and kill opposing team's vision. Also, smart scouts/NH's won't let themselves get caught like that if they had it happen to them once already. But you said low-level, so it should be fairly reliable. There have been plenty of times that I've scouted out ahead with an invis rune and wondered if they saw me pick it up, and am worried about a blue ward, or someone on their team popping puzzlebox. But, I just assume since they're not a pre-made five, or their support aren't that bright, I can afford to scout ahead. Yeah, I've been burned by that logic a few times.
02-11-2011, 07:32 AM
Take Wretched Hag. Solo mid, get runes, gank sidelanes.
When they go invis u either AoEspam them down with scream and batblast.
Ofcourse you cant always kill them with ur nukes when they are invis, in that case u use dust or farm a Kuldra.
Kuldra rush in low lvl game in Hag is really really strong. You have infinite mana and 3,5sec lockdown is ALOT. Especially on a squishy agi invis hero.
02-11-2011, 10:16 AM
The usual problem in low pubs is that they don't care to counter invis with wards etc, so their ganks fail on those invis heroes. They also aren't so coordinated, so they prob won't push early. I would suggest having an equal "hard" carry as scout on your team with an escape mechanism. Like magebane,chronos, sand wraith etc.
02-11-2011, 10:26 AM
:ramp: Charge him from about max range and your teammates will have alot of time to deal with him
02-11-2011, 10:57 AM
lol at DaeMonD' with a baddy sig.. casual mode is so ezzzzz wo0rse than ez mode anyways take dust everytime.
Your items should be striders, some regen, wards, some bracers, invis wards / dust and then void talisman, if u get hit once boom activate void and run like a retard. or tp home :) u shouldnt lose unless they are really good, wards of revel are soo good, when ur pushing place them this is because nhs and scouts looove to be right inside your team and then just initiate, if u drop a ward of revel u can take their carry out no prob.
02-11-2011, 10:59 AM
The biggest mistake pubs do when they wanna gank an invis hero is gank him without a means to counter his invis, like dust or rev wards. Typical scenario involves someone saying: "go gank nh", then 4 ppl come to gank him (if they actually care to do it) but nobody has dust or rev, nh escapes with ease, mb the other team comes tping to help him and nh gets a double tap in the process. Then the team stops ganking him cos it doesnt work apparently and nh proceeds to rape the game.
The ONLY thing that stops invis heroes is countering their invisibility. NH is useless on a lane mined with rev wards, so is mm or scout. It doesn't cost much to actually counter a hero. Think of a 3900 item like shrunken head that counters WS for instance. Well think of rev wards as an item that counters NH or Scout, that has 100 gold instalments throughout the game.
02-11-2011, 12:45 PM
arachna, pestilence, rampage
Dust is so cheap and works awesome at making nh and scout invis useless in ganking situations. Takes 10 seconds to bring it over on the courier and its well worth it. Put the dust on your best ganking hero with the most mobility and the invis is completely useless.