HoN graphic lag - for many users.

[Cepesh]

C'mon... you can't seriously say this is our problem anymore, when so many people are experiencing it..



http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?t=215289

The game also takes up 100% of my CPU usage suddenly, when before it barely even set me past 50%. I've tried reinstalling completely, as well as running a few game boosters in the background. I've also defragmented the hard drive and done just about everything else I can think of to help.
http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?t=217052

I am experiencing:

Random lag bursts (1-5 seconds)
Extreme lag during team fights
Heroes lagging when they move (everything else is smooth)
Lag when I move the mouse to the right side corners (this is caused by ATI, not the game).


It all started sometime after 2.0. No, it is not my internet connection. I have been playing HoN on this connection since September 2009. No, it is not my computer. I've never had these issues before.http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?t=210350


So, I just got a new comp, it runs HoN on all high settings and HoN uses a pretty average amount of memory. But, sometimes, very randomly, HoN will start eating into memory, using over 1gb of RAM (I think the highest I saw was 1.3).

From those 3... guess how many have been solved?? Zero... right. So, I have the same absolute problem and really this is just stupid. All the support ever does is ask stupid questions. Just like the IT support "Is the PC connected to electric grid" - like WTF?

Please, give some GOOD advice now.

I have done everything except reinstalling windows... reinstalling the whole game, deleting everything from mydocs, deleting all mods, reinstalling and deleting all again, registry repairs, defragment, set performance high/realtime, close ALL other programs - even explorer, while running HoN, nothing seems to work.

Although, this problem is not in every single game I play. It occurs in 3 games out of 4 I play... so I'm thinking again that this might be a server-sided issue - sending me a lot of data to process for some reason.

Really hoping to get a reply that isn't our usual: "Was the computer on when trying to play?"

Sorry for irony/sarcasm, but I've tried for more than a month already to get rid of this program and no ****ing one pays attention to this. I guess S2 just has too many clients now... that they forget about all those who supported them when HoN was still in baby-shoes.



Things to rule out:
Disabling mods - no effect
Reinstalling game - no effect
Reinstalling video card drivers - upgraded - no effect
Reinstalling video card drivers - downgraded to previous working verison (ATI Catalyst 10.2) - no effect
Sound card - disabled - no effect
CPU power options - maxed out - no effect

[Cepesh]

Nothing? No inquiries... no replies.
The point where S2 doesn't just give a **** is when their own engine is broken. Sure, it's easy to tell people to get better graph cards / memory boards 'n other things, but when something went wrong with the game... It takes courage to admit.
Really awesome, indeed. (hint: sarcasm)

I don't even know where to turn.. because you guys simply won't give an adequate reply to anything.

[IAmRoot]

Case 1:

OS: Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition, Version 5.1.2600
Processor: Intel Pentium II processor (1596 MHz)
Video: NVIDIA GeForce 8300 GS(512.00 MB)
RAM: 2.00 GB

Computer doesn't meet minimum specs.

Case 2:

Core i7 @ 1.73 ghz

too slow. Number of cores doesn't matter that much with gaming.

Case 3:
Not enough ram

If you need help, I need your specs, etc.

[Cepesh]

Dude, wtf? That is just hilarious. How can HoN start superlag in a computer that plays 3d action games without lag?
You are saying that it is the computer's fault, but I think there has to be a problem in HoN, because you have to admit that you didnt get so many questions about RAM issues before 2.0 patch... did you now?

My system specs:
Dell Studio 1555:
Intel(R) Core 2 Duo CPU T6500 @ 2.10GHz 2.10 GHz
RAM: 4096 MB 800MHz Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM (2x2GB)
Video: 512MB ATI Mobility RadeonTM HD 4570

You, sir, IAmRoot, are blaming EVERYONE in this forum... for having too bad of a computer or having too many programs open or whatsoever....

Have you EVER considered the fact that the game might have a bug that affects some computers? Indication being that RECENTLY the number of RAM/graphic lag complaints has gone through the roof... this just cant be a coincidence.


Another topic linked:
(http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?t=210350)
Your responses are simply something to defend S2. Just tell us that you are at least trying to find the problem...

[BASH]

In fact, there were way more crashes prior to 2.0, but they optimized the RAM usage and management in one or two patches and fixed some bugs.

However, in most of the cases, there is a broken hardware part, a messed up installation (e.g. due to mods), driver issues, low-end systems or graphic options set too high.

You also have to keep in mind, that with and after patch 2.0 a lot of new models and other content have been added.

You didn't even explain what your exact problem is. Please do so and post which version of Windows you are using (including 32 or 64bit), along with your console.log*.

*Console.log
The K2 engine keeps a log of the console. This is often very helpful in identifying your problem. Look under the following directory for your console.log :
For Windows XP -C:\Documents and Settings\[user]\My Documents\Heroes of Newerth\game\.
For Windows Vista/7 - C:\Users\[user]\Documents\Heroes of Newerth\game\
Please upload (http://tools.heroesofnewerth.com/upload.php) your console.log and post the url.

[Cepesh]

HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO DO THIS!?

This post was not to say that I have a problem... because I already know that uploading console log or any system stats wont help because I get no feedback here.

I thought that maybe when I get a lot of attention with this.. then someone would finally care. But a few users for S2 is nothing. Not worth fixing broken sh*t.

Next time I feel like having a nice lagfest game and making my team lose, i will upload console log. (You can be the one to explain to my teammembers why I'm standing still/doing no spells/running around randomly in teamfights.)

Edit: oh, btw. I have uninstalled the game 4 times. Updated/downgraded my drivers 2 times. Registry cleaned, no viruses no nothing, all other games run perfectly. (win 7 32-bit)
And the PROBLEM is... massive lag in fights that have more than 2 heroes. This makes game unplayable and it is the same issue as with all the other posts I've quoted in my OP.

[IAmRoot]

"3d action games" means precisely nothing as far as how complicated the rendering is. However, your cpu is most likely the bottleneck, and rts style games are generally more cpu intensive than gpu intensive. If I'm correct, lowering the graphics details shouldn't have an effect on the lag.


you have to admit that you didnt get so many questions about RAM issues before 2.0 patch... did you now?
Um. The ram issues have improved significantly as of 2.0.0. Before, people would crash when they ran out of ram. Now, the most unused textures are removed from ram and reloaded from the hard drive when needed again. It's the hard drive activity that causes the lag from ram issues.

There was a problem earlier on with the new minimap taking more cpu time to process than it should have. That's been fixed, though.

I'll need to see your console.log to see exactly what's bottlenecking.

[Cepesh]

K, I finally managed to play a game... had serious lag issues again. Even though I closed all my programs beforehand (except skype) and even made a preemptive restart just to refresh the system.

Here's the console.log:

You can download the file using this link: http://tools.heroesofnewerth.com/view.php?key=2d8078bd575c5c82&action=download
You can view the file using this link: http://tools.heroesofnewerth.com/view.php?key=2d8078bd575c5c82&action=view


Just for the kicks I went to canyourunit.com and it actually shows that my computer SHOULD be able to run it perfectly. (Like it actually did... a couple of months ago.)

CPU Recommended: 2.0 GHz Core 2 Duo / AMD 3500+ or faster You Have: Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU T6500 @ 2.10GHz http://d1ylr6sba64qi3.cloudfront.net/cyri/assets/images_/green_arrow.gif PASS
http://d1ylr6sba64qi3.cloudfront.net/cyri/assets/images_/green_checkmark.gif CPU Speed Recommended: Core 2 Duo 2.0 GHz You Have: 2.1 GHz Performance Rated at: 3.36 GHz http://d1ylr6sba64qi3.cloudfront.net/cyri/assets/images_/green_arrow.gif PASS
http://d1ylr6sba64qi3.cloudfront.net/cyri/assets/images_/green_checkmark.gif RAM Recommended: 1.5 GB You Have: 3.0 GB http://d1ylr6sba64qi3.cloudfront.net/cyri/assets/images_/green_arrow.gif PASS
http://d1ylr6sba64qi3.cloudfront.net/cyri/assets/images_/green_checkmark.gif OS Recommended: Windows XP, Win2k or Windows Vista You Have: Microsoft Windows 7 Ultimate Edition (build 7600), 32-bit http://d1ylr6sba64qi3.cloudfront.net/cyri/assets/images_/green_arrow.gif PASS
http://d1ylr6sba64qi3.cloudfront.net/cyri/assets/images_/green_checkmark.gif Video Card Recommended: 256 MB VRAM video card (GeForce 7800+ / ATI Radeon X1900+) You Have: ATI Mobility Radeon HD 4500/5100 Series http://d1ylr6sba64qi3.cloudfront.net/cyri/assets/images_/green_arrow.gif PASS Features: Recommended attributes of your Video Card

Required --- You Have
Video RAM 256 MB --- 1.7 GB http://d1ylr6sba64qi3.cloudfront.net/cyri/assets/images_/green_checkmark_small.gif
Hardware T&L Yes --- Yes http://d1ylr6sba64qi3.cloudfront.net/cyri/assets/images_/green_checkmark_small.gif
Pixel Shader version 3.0 --- 4.1 http://d1ylr6sba64qi3.cloudfront.net/cyri/assets/images_/green_checkmark_small.gif
Vertex Shader version 3.0 --- 4.1 http://d1ylr6sba64qi3.cloudfront.net/cyri/assets/images_/green_checkmark_small.gif

[Cepesh]

Bump...

I figured that once I upload my console... then silence will begin.

[Cepesh]

So here it goes. Gotta bump my post like some other dude. Posted console.log, but no replies. Guess you don't have a clue what's wrong, right, S2? :)
Don't worry, you can just ignore me and hope that I will get tired of posting my problems, or you can actually help me. I would REALLY appreciate it, because so far I have done everything you guys have asked me to do, but the feedback to my problem is still at 0%.
Can I get some help now? Please? (Pretty please, even)

[BASH]

Processor: Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU (1197 MHz)
Video: ATI Mobility Radeon HD 4500/5100 Series(512.00 MB)

Your CPU is clocked at 1,2GHz, which is way too low to run HoN. Try disabling power saving features (iirc Intel calls it SpeedStep or EIST)

You also get a lot of "Query not S_OK" messages, followed by a Direct3D restart, which leads to the assumption, that there is a problem with your video card or driver.

Possible Solutions (in the given order!)
1. Update your video drivers (ATI (http://support.amd.com/us/gpudownload/Pages/index.aspx))
2. Update DirectX (http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?displaylang=en&FamilyID=2da43d38-db71-4c1b-bc6a-9b6652cd92a3)
3. Remove Heroes of Newerth completely (this step includes deleting the HoN-folder under Documents!)
4. Download the latest client and install it again.
5. If the issues still occur, try to lower your graphics settings and disable effects like Reflections, Post Processing and so on.
6. Options -> Graphics -> Exclusive Mode On or Off. Play a few games with it on, and a few with it off and see if you notice one being more stable.
7. Options -> Interface -> Disable Background Effects: checked
8. Switch to openGL mode (edit HoN shortcut and add "-vid vid_gl2" to the end)

Pushing your thread won't help you at all. Threads get answered when we have the time to do so.

[IAmRoot]

The Query not S_OK messages could be caused by cpu lag. It's this that's the root of the problem:
1701 Client System Details:
1702 OS: Microsoft Windows 7 Ultimate , Version 6.1.7600
1703 Processor: Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU (1197 MHz)
1704 Video: ATI Mobility Radeon HD 4500/5100 Series(512.00 MB)
1705 RAM: 2.99 GB

In addition to an underclocked cpu, an outdated bios can cause your cpu to be reported incorrectly, too.

[Cepesh]

Useless. All is useless.
I'm playing games that require a hell lot more of CPU than HoN and they all run just FINE.




Possible Solutions (in the given order!)
1. Update your video drivers (ATI (http://support.amd.com/us/gpudownload/Pages/index.aspx))
2. Update DirectX (http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?displaylang=en&FamilyID=2da43d38-db71-4c1b-bc6a-9b6652cd92a3)
3. Remove Heroes of Newerth completely (this step includes deleting the HoN-folder under Documents!)
4. Download the latest client and install it again.
5. If the issues still occur, try to lower your graphics settings and disable effects like Reflections, Post Processing and so on.
6. Options -> Graphics -> Exclusive Mode On or Off. Play a few games with it on, and a few with it off and see if you notice one being more stable.
7. Options -> Interface -> Disable Background Effects: checked
8. Switch to openGL mode (edit HoN shortcut and add "-vid vid_gl2" to the end)

Pushing your thread won't help you at all. Threads get answered when we have the time to do so.

Woah...
1. Did that... like a month ago, when I got pissed about the lag and did some research.
2. Did that at the same time.
3. See 1'st and 2nd
4. Obviously after I deleted it.. i needed a new one.
5. Lowering graphics settings only caused me to:
5.1 - Ingame lowering of graph settings - everything went black, saw my hero like a shadow. Restarted client and rejoined the game, all was good... except the lag was still there.
5.2 - Lowering of graph settings made me not see Deadwood and FLint - both were alt avatars. (Turned them invisible - could still see their dots on minimap)
6. The thing is... i don't get small lag... I get practically 2FPS or even lower in teamfights. And that didn't change when I tried that. (Also a while ago)
7. Yes, did that as well.
8. I will remember that and might just try it next time.


Out of all the posts and all "advice" there is only one sentence that actually COULD work or help. Like I said, you guys must take me for an idiot. I have tried all those things already and nothing worked.

But you know what did work?
Patch 2.0.15 - No lag for 7 games already. New record since... Christmas?

So great work programmers. Too bad tech support doesn't even know about game issues that programmers are fixing.

And... i just need to say this: I TOLD YOU SO. We didn't have problems... the game did. Booya.

[BASH]

So you were basically too busy flaming techsupport instead of trying things with the new patch...interesting.

We don't think you are an idiot, just because we list all the possible (even very basic) solutions. We HAVE to list them, because there are a lot of people out there, not even knowing how to update drivers.

Anyway, our posts are still valid.

[Cepesh]

Instead of trying with the new patch? The patch just came out? I've been playing every day... even with that lag. It's just unplayable and I get the worst flame in the world for not being able to do anything and I can't do anything about it. :(

BTW. I guess I jinxed it, because last 3 games all had the same lag like before.
So its still not fixed.

I will try that OpenGL thing tomorrow.

(I know you have to list all the possibilities, but your list contained some things that I already covered in this topic - that I had done. - Therefore, you have not even read the topic and are just copy-pasting dumbuser instructions, which seems a bit arrogant.)

[BASH]

Please stop assuming things. I've read the topic, but I have post some points because there has been a new patch or to make absolutely sure about something.

[Cepesh]

So, I've been having this problem for 4 months now. The game constantly keeps lagging. Right now it has been getting worse every week.
FINALLY I found out how to get rid of the lag: I mute all sound from desktop before entering game.

That has one disadvantage tho, since I'm playing with friends and would really like to communicate with them on skype or ventrilo or smth.
So... can you advise me what to do now?

[Cepesh]

Okay, that didn't work... I got the illusion that it might from one game.
So... here I uploaded a console log:

Download: http://tools.heroesofnewerth.com/view.php?key=3c61d2d83a57e52d&action=download


View: http://tools.heroesofnewerth.com/view.php?key=3c61d2d83a57e52d&action=view


Get 6 FPS when teambattles start. And... seriously 6FPS is LOT to say about what I'm REALLY having. Because the game just jumps with 1.5 second interwals.

Can anyone please tell me what stuff should I try? Because I've almost done everything already.

[Tobias]

Does disabling sound in game make a difference?

Is anything throttling your CPU? (Check your power settings, make sure its set to max performance)

[Cepesh]

No. I tried disabling it... I also tried a fix that was on different forums, where I had to regedit some sound throttling to optimize networking. - No effect.

CPU - working at full potential. 100% processor state.

We can rule those 2 things out. What else?

[Cepesh]

Another console log:
http://tools.heroesofnewerth.com/view.php?key=67d0d45c67671300&action=view

This time the game lagged even when I was just killing creeps. Alone.
In teamfights it was absolutely impossible to do anything. Didn't look at FPS, but well when heroes move 400 units in a blink then I guess that isn't too good either.

[Tobias]

Could you please test for packet loss? http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/wiki/index.php/Network_Quality_Diagnostics

[Cepesh]

Ping statistics for 213.163.67.69:
Packets: Sent = 500, Received = 500, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 67ms, Maximum = 1145ms, Average = 75ms


When the spikes occurred there were like 3 or 4 together with all ranging from 600 to 1145. There were like a total of 4 such spikes.

What does that show?

[Cepesh]

First node seems to spike, so the problem might be in my computer settings.
A couple of days ago I already did the "sound card throttling fix" (http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1043281) provided under the Diagnostics help page.

So, any other known fixes? Or should I do what diagnostics page is suggesting - reinstall windows?

Any other things that might help?

[Tobias]

If the first node is spiking (which I assume is a router or a modem), then the problem is either on your computer, or that particular device (or the connection in between).
If it is a router, have you tried connecting directly to the modem? Have you tried restarting the device?

[Cepesh]

I don't think it's the modem, because I get roughly the same amount of spikes everywhere else as well. At my gf's house for example.

So therefore the problem should be in my computer. (Dell Studio 1555)
What should I do? What else can I show you, so you might have a better understanding what might the problem be?

[Cepesh]

Anyone?

[YawningAngel]

Try going to dell's website and updating your network/firmware drivers.

[Cepesh]

Did that. No effect.
Now I've noticed the same thing happening in LoL as well... (since I turned to that game, because it didn't lag for me before)
Now both of the games lag. This is so weird.

[Tobias]

Well, what kind of "security" software do you have installed on your computer?

[Cepesh]

COMODO antivirus.
I exited it, but I don't know if that helps.

Currently I'm backing up my important files and in a couple of hours going to reinstall Windows. Gonna put it to Win 7 64bit... since 32 bit doesn't get support from my computer manufacturer for some reason.

[Tobias]

Alright, let us know how that goes.

[Cepesh]

Installed new windows, new drivers, new almost everything, except for hardware.
Still lagged. Until I lifted my computer up on books so the vents could work better. It seemed to work... I didn't have nearly as much lag as I used to.

Next steps:
1. Take my computer to maintenance for cleaning up all the dust.
2. Get a cooling pad or smth.

Any suggestions?


Edit: I feel pretty lame now accusing S2. Sorry.

[Tobias]

Cleaning out the dust is always a good idea.

[Cepesh]

Installed new windows, new drivers, new almost everything, except for hardware.
Still lagged. Until I lifted my computer up on books so the vents could work better. It seemed to work... I didn't have nearly as much lag as I used to.

Next steps:
1. Take my computer to maintenance for cleaning up all the dust.
2. Get a cooling pad or smth.

Any suggestions?


Edit: I feel pretty lame now accusing S2. Sorry.


Okay... coming back after a half-a-year not playing... I have the same thing happening to me.
Lag spikes. Every time there is a team battle... every time more than 2 heroes are on the screen.
Did those 2 steps, but I didnt play HoN at that time anymore. Now I'm back and this same thing is repeating.
I have a cooling pad. And I took the computer to maintenance.

Next ideas?

[Cepesh]

Oh yeah sorry, the console log:

You can download the file using this link: http://tools.heroesofnewerth.com/view.php?key=efc9f36b3d241c5f&action=download.
You can view the file using this link: http://tools.heroesofnewerth.com/view.php?key=efc9f36b3d241c5f&action=view.

[Cepesh]

Hello?
Any responses?'

Please help.

[r00t]

Hello,

does the problem still exist in the new Patch?

Regards, r00t