New mode for competitive play - Coach Mode.

[baiNey]

Hey everyone.

Just a random thought I had the other day about a mode which I feel would really benefit the competitive HoN gaming community. Something which I haven't seen suggested at all before. (correct me if I am wrong)

So... 'Coach Mode', the idea came about because I have some members in my make-shift clan (basically just friends playing together) who are decent but would be a lot better with some in-game on the spot guidance and advice.

So the idea would be that the game is played out as a 6v6 game, where each team has one player who is effectively a spectator but actually only has the vision of his team/ or a certain radius of the map (as a suggestion from previous commenters). This way he can observe the play of a certain player or even how the whole team plays together and give advice during the game... This is often a lot better than giving advice to someone after a game, as a lot of the time people don't seem to remember or might be in a bad mood because they lost ect. ect.

The other side of things would be that if you were to play a clan/competitive 'Coach Mode' game you would have someone who is essentially the captain which could make more educated decisions due to the fact that he can jump around the map more than a normal player as he doesn't have a hero to look after.

I realise that a lot of people will be thinking,


'oh well then there is no point for map awareness, pointless mode!'
'hey, this will make ganking pointless! as you will always know when someone is miss!'

And I do half and half agree with this, however a team that has no map awareness is then ENTIRELY relying on the 'coach' to see everything, if he is distracted by something they could still end up in a bad spot or missing an opportunity...

Or you have to consider teams that would play this to their advantage - maybe mid heading top and getting rune, coach calling 'miss! top care!' and then the hero tp's bot and ganks bot instead.

The 'Coach Mode' idea can also be incorperated into the 'Captain Mode' idea which is being tossed around a lot and I fully support. This puts a bit more pressure onto the Coach to make good picks.

Something else which has come up from talking to people is that it would be interesting to see if only the coach could control things in the game like, maybe ONLY the coach can ping? ONLY the coach can control the courier. ect. ect.

Anyway, its all just an idea at the moment, so any CONSTRUCTIVE feedback is always welcome. Its a little bit of a random idea but I thought I would throw it out there. HoN is claiming to be in full support of the competitive gaming community and I feel that this will really add another edge to competitive play.

[Genjuro]

decent idea, it wouldn't be hard to make - but i honestly doubt people will be playing with it, seeing as not many players would find it that amusing to be the "coach"

[Darkstrand]

Don't like it.. The point is to play the game, not just watch it.

This really doesn't add anything to the competitive scene other than one more set of eyes, and a ***** slot - even worse than ward *****.

[kjaonline]

This would be nice.. Especially when teaching newbies as coaches would be mentors of some sort..

This would be a fine addition to the game..

[blueflower]

Yes it would give the game a more RTS feel, whch is what I think DOTA and HON are essentially when played on a pure competitive level, RTS.

Maybe this may also be an option on competitive games to have a Coordinator ala natural selection style.

[Shadowcamsy]

Wow, freaky, I was thinking of this idea around the same time you made this post yesterday. My idea was slightly different from yours but it pretty much has the same concept:
- 5 players in noob only/intermediate tier and a player from the pro tier on each team.
- each pro player gives advice to the newer players and shows them what they should be doing with their heroes
- at the end of the game the pro player is awarded 2 psr if his team loses and 5 psr if they win. Think of it as a reputation increase for helping out some new players to the game.
- If the pro player abuses this and just afk's the entire game, after the game is completed the new players can rate the pro player, which appears on his stat sheet. New players can use this rating in the future to determine whether a pro player is a good coach or not.

I would very much like to see an adaption of your idea be implemented into HoN, it promotes a good community and stops newer players giving up and leaving the game because they don't know what to do and no one teaches them anything.

[Bui]

So in other words, you want a mode where HoN has a general? I guess it would be good if some guy needed to boost his ego +1 to his friends since he knows how to play waaaaaaay better than them.

T-down.

[say_well]

dude thumbs up. in savage 2 there is a commander who has the vision of his own team and has the abilites to buff his team.

same thing should be done here in HoN but not the "buff" thing. +1

[MrTortoise1]

I like this idea a lot.

Im not a competative hon/dota player, but i have been in other games. Being able to get people on a server and show them what you are thinking when trying to build up team strats counts for millions of words.

An extension to this would be some kind of shared replay system, where you can get several players into the same replay and have someone able to ff and rewind whilst making marks on the map with some kind of drawing tool would be immense.

A board game would have a tree of possible moves that have been analysed after the game as part of a review process that would be attached to the main list of moves - i would imagine this to work the same way with annotations attached to a time stamp and location.

A key part of how it works in serious board game analysis is being able to hand control to other players. the process will break if its one way as it breaks detailed two way discussion.

Moreover the coach may have good ideas but everyone has good input, so for instance setting a play with valk you may find that the coach has a good spot, but a valk player may have a better angle etc.

I think it could add a lot for raising the level competitive play for less experienced clans.

I dont think the general mode in savage would be sufficient but is definatley the closet i know to this suggestion.
Tht said the general mode is a good idea for the origional suggestion, but more a starting point for this idea.

I also don't think it shuold be considred as a game mode like sd, ap, em etc it would be more akin to the practise mode setting as it has different requirements.

[baiNey]

Thanks for all the good feedback guys, I realise that there will obviously be people out there who see no use for this, but then again, most people see no use for Deathmatch.

I am sure it wouldn't hurt to have a version of this mode put into the game so that those who do want to make the most of it can use it and those who don't want it can just let it pass them by...

[baiNey]

An extension to this would be some kind of shared replay system, where you can get several players into the same replay and have someone able to ff and rewind whilst making marks on the map with some kind of drawing tool would be immense.

I really like this comment, excellent idea for developing clans and taking a look at where the team could have done a lot better...

[_Archangel_]

This isn't good for competitive play. The Coach thing will be imbalanced in a real competitive game or tournament play and as said above, trivialise map awareness skills and make ganking a lot more difficult. But it is excellent for inhouse/scrims when you're PRACTISING FOR competitive games.

[VonSchpam]

Maybe not for Competitive play... but certainly in helping competitive teams train themselves and their new players. I would see the value as more of taking the solo practice mode to the next level. One thing, as a New player myself, one thing I often find myself seeking is "Coaching" while I play.

Veteran players are always helpful... but they are often occupied with playing their own hero and can't spare any dedicated attention to "coach" other new players in real time. They usually can only spare short and quick tid-bits of advice, leaving New players to their own devices for most of a match.

Second, there is only so much a new player will learn by reading forums, guides and by participating in chat. Actually playing the game and applying all that new advice in real time is what helps actualize and make tangible the lessons they read about.


So, Coach Mode has more utility then just pure Competitive Match play.

[Avan1]

The only point in comp play would be if he was actually able to do something. I understand this is kinda what savage 2 was? (Maybe not i just picked up on small things here and there on forums)

[`NoD]

Yeah! I like this coach thing! cause it's better if only one person is doing the strategy

[HellFire69]

I don't see the point of this. Just have the "coach" play and change the title to "captain".

[Chamie]

Why are you ditching this idea so much?

There are a lot of people in gaming who actually prefer to be manager over playing, besides like he's saying, it's a great way to train your rl friends.

[Tamachan]

Thanks for all the good feedback guys, I realise that there will obviously be people out there who see no use for this, but then again, most people see no use for Deathmatch.


There is no use for deathmatch......

[Sai]

ARDM 35 is the most fun gametype ever.
stfu end of story

this mode would not be "competitive"...Just means the core 5 have to be less skilled.

[MrTortoise1]

to be fair this isn;t a feature that was suggested for use in copmetative play ... it was a feature to supplement in scrims etc.

[Juke_Box]

give coaches same sight range as the wards that detect invisi units, and your sorted.

[panterafreak]

An extension to this would be some kind of shared replay system, where you can get several players into the same replay and have someone able to ff and rewind whilst making marks on the map with some kind of drawing tool would be immense.



I have been wanting to try something like this with fraps and doing a Madden impression (or maybe Dick Vital).

MADDEN: As you can see they just came out of the woods here and here (yellow arrows) and then BAM! (yellow circles) you can see how they hit him with the stun first followed by the dps.

VITAL: Look at that ownage, all five dead on Legion and only one lost on Hellbourne baby!

[higherbrow]

It'd be a way different game if you unlinked sight for everyone but the coach. Then it's more like an actual battle, where you aren't aware of what's going on around you until you're given orders. Dark Lady's ult would then just blind the coach. There was an old Half Life mod called Natural Selection that was very much like this, and it was a lot of fun.

[Ilfirin]

I think this sort of training mode for clans/groups of friends would be immensely helpful for teaching. Great idea man!

[Damage]

decent idea, it wouldn't be hard to make - but i honestly doubt people will be playing with it, seeing as not many players would find it that amusing to be the "coach"

I agree. As nice as this sounds on paper, it really wouldn't be ultilized.

However if they implemented a mode where there is a TEAM spectator (with team chat/vision) this could be done in private games (which would probably be the only one to utilize it anways.

[FaithyToadz]

+1 vote for me couse this mode isnt used for common games is used for Cm or leagues definetly i wanna see this good suggestion!

[Willsherman]

This seems like a great idea, just not for competative play, for scrims this could be an invaluable tool.

[iBate]

This would be a great way for training new clan memebers etc. Defently T UP