HoTBL vs Shaman Headress

[r00kie]

Hello guys,

I've seen alot of message flying around concerning those 2 items and decided I would see where to draw the line.

Lets take 2 heroes with the same base stats :

=1000 hp
=0 armor
=50 damage received

Now let's compute the damage reductions :

HoTBL : (50-(.7*40))*(1-(0*.06/(1+.06*0AR))) = 22 dmg received
SH : (50-(0))*(1-(10*.06/(1+.06*10))) = 31 dmg received

Before calculating the regeneration bonus let's give ourselves a survivability indicator (remember HoTBL gives + 300hp) :

HoTBL : 1300/22 = 59 hits
SH : 1000/31 = 32.25 hits

Now to compute the regeneration given by both items we will assume that the enemy hits every 2 secondes, giving 2 seconds to regenerate some HP :

HoTBL : 6*59*2+1300 = 2009 hp
SH : 8*32.25*2+1000 = 1512 hp

Now we compute a new survivability based on this total hp :

HoTBL : 91 hits
SH : 48 hits

Wow so far HoTBL seems to work really well you can survive 89% more hits than the Shaman Headress..

Let's see how it scales on increments of 250hp and 25 damage per "level" going towards a mid/end-game scenario. Given 1000hp and 50 damage is very early game and tough to achieve (to get 2k that fast)

1250hp/75dmg
HoTBL : 41 hits
SH : 36 hits

1500hp/100dmg
HoTBL : 29
SH : 30

We are getting at the beggining of mid-game and both items seems to have reached a somewhat equal level of damage absorbtion... Let's continue further...

1750hp/125dmg
HoTBL : 24
SH : 27

2000hp/150dmg
HoTBL : 21
SH : 25

I think you can see where it is heading here.. The damage reduction of HoTBL does not scales well going late game...

2750hp/225dmg
HoTBL : 16
SH : 22

Shaman Headress is now 37.5% more effective than the Helm.. Quite interesting...

Now you will say, hey it's totally different ! HoTBL block physical damage while Shaman reduces Magical damage.. While this is true, I think it is still a worthy comparison as a tank will get focused by spells as much as by physical attacks.

Now, it really depends on how you expect to play your game. In pub stomping the helm might help you alot more, since noob in general will rarely end the fight in a few seconds... While when you are against more organised team most damage output will come from spells (the starting stun + nuking) the finishing hits might be physical yes...

It really comes down to what level you are playing, in my opinion if you are playing against decent people with nuke ability, its the Shaman Headress for sure, if you are pubstomping, you could go for the HoTBL, but you might aswell be better off with a platemail that will scale to be superior to your Helm even without the hp regeneration...

There is also a few situation where armor is not superior to blocking/having more hp... This is when you are facing a team which uses armor reduction modifiers...

I might have a few things off (especially with the reneration calculations) But in the end I think I've learned that armor is definitly worth it over any amount of health...

Believe it or not, but in term of survavibility +10 AR is edging the Behemoths Heart +965hp and +1% hp regen (if I did compute it well)

Please correct me if I'm wrong or add anything you want but I feel that to much people are stacking hearts or purely HP items. In the end the safest way is to have a little bit of both to be safe if your armor get reducted, and to be safe against damage scaling through the game..

Is an item really superior to the other ? I don't think so... Some tanks have a better early game.. Others have a better late game, I'm just trying to get all the fundamentals in and trying to think a little more into it without buying everything everyone says :)

[Glorify1]

How are you going to compare two items that add EHP based on two different types of incoming damage?

[kameelyan]

In other words...what you've proven is that if the opp has a lot of magic damage, go SH...otherwise go HotBL. I say "otherwise" because as you've said the HotBL is better early game, and as such will make me more of a dominate figure early game to earn gold faster (ganking, not dying, etc.) that I'll be able to afford more in the late game.

Personally, I may go HotBL, but later in the game I find armor more important than blocking. Therefore, I'll break it and use the helm in SH. I then use the remaining items for BHeart and Whispering Helm and eventually symbol of rage.

I think people forget they can break items apart sometimes.

[r00kie]

Well, there are many flaws, and I already mentioned it as the source of damage is the first one, and the second one the regeneration rate,

But in the end if you accept that you receive about the same amount of magic vs physical damage it can give you an idea...

Oh, and also the armor reduction is really good when you start with 0 armor and start to scale it up, but the more you scale the harder it is to recude the damage..

Glorify, I know you hate HoTBL but :

In the end I think both items are good, but situational.. You like Shaman Headress because you face alot of nukes before being finished off with physical damage..

Most random players like HoTBL because they face less nuke and more physical damage..

I think that overall it stills shows that armor scales better with time than HP + block

[r00kie]

In other words...what you've proven is that if the opp has a lot of magic damage, go SH...otherwise go HotBL. I say "otherwise" because as you've said the HotBL is better early game, and as such will make me more of a dominate figure early game to earn gold faster (ganking, not dying, etc.) that I'll be able to afford more in the late game.

HoTBL is good for jungling, laning I'm not so sure, if you are facing a physical lane go for it, if you are being harrassed by nukers I'm not sure you'll get more gold than with a shaman head

[Zolfix]

But in the end if you accept that you receive about the same amount of magic vs physical damage it can give you an idea...

Most random players like HoTBL because they face less nuke and more physical damage..

wat.

[zackattk]

It's a pretty simple concept, any "tankish" hero should have both (i.e. Legionnaire, Devourer, KotF if you go tank tree on him). The question is which to get first and when. If the team has 2 nukers or less, always get HotBL first. If they have more nukers than that, always get SH first. The only heroes other than tanks that should get either of them are the ones who are too squishy to survive otherwise on bracers and stats (i.e. Magebane should get HotBL most of the time). That is all.

[gipp2]

It's a pretty simple concept, any "tankish" hero should have both (i.e. Legionnaire, Devourer, KotF if you go tank tree on him). The question is which to get first and when. If the team has 2 nukers or less, always get HotBL first. If they have more nukers than that, always get SH first. The only heroes other than tanks that should get either of them are the ones who are too squishy to survive otherwise on bracers and stats (i.e. Magebane should get HotBL most of the time). That is all.

ew never get it on devourer.
need behemoth heart asap with blink dagger

str treads should be enough for magebane.
vanguard is just hurting his farming ability and is just plain useless on him. get poor man's shield if anything.
blink should be enough survivability and gives better mobility in a team fight to actually dodge things.
if they have single target disables, then that is what bkb is for.

vanguard just delays the better items. especially on carries. wow you may live longer but you are pretty damn useless damage wise.