Tibor and Lumia

[dandylion]

Those of you that are MTG fans will recognize one of my favorite cards, and the basis of my concept for this hero :)


Tibor
and
Lumia



http://www.wizards.com/magic/images/cardart/GPT/Tibor_and_Lumia.jpg



Sound and Visual Design
Visual: Tibor and Lumia are one hero, but their model consists of both units.
When attacking, they both fire a ball of orange/blue that converge on their attack target.
Tibor is dressed in blue robes, Lumia in red.
Sound: "Time to heat things up!" "Drown your worries"
"To a crisp..." "It'll be a blast"

Story
Tibor, and his twin Lumia, (T/L) were the greatest sorcerers in the world. They used their magic to perform incredible aerial feats and displays. Their
feats were well known throughout the planes, and their powers unrivaled. Their power gave them a thirst
for knowledge and justice, and this thirst was nearly unquenchable. With their convictions to using
their power for the good of all people, they joined league with the Legion and oppose the dark
and wicked ways of the Hellborne. With the purity of water, and a fiery determination,
they vowed to purge the lands, and use their knowledge and power to prove themselves once again.

Affiliation: Legion
Primary Attribute: Agility
Speed: 300
Range: 400

Base Stats
Str: 18 (+1.6)
Agi: 21 (+2.5)
Int: 19 (+1.8)

Role
Agility carry, capable of early game nuking, and end game domination.

Quick Q and A...
Q: So... is this two heroes? or just a double model like techies?
A: It's one hero with a double model, similar to techies.

Q: But isn't Tibor based around wind and not water?
A: Yes, Tibor is technically wind and not water, however, I felt the abilities
made significantly more sense slowing and affecting magic armor as water/ice
than I felt wind would work. Besides, what fun is it to completely plagiarize
something anyways?

Q: Why agility instead of intelligence?
A: Basically, they're like Moon Queen, Corrupted Disciple, or Soulstealer. They have nuking potential
through their spells, but their main focus and skillset is built to carry.



Abilities


Pyromatics

http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/9290/pyromaticsedit.jpg
Tibor and Lumia dash forward, twirling around each other, damaging enemies as they pass, and inflicting them with both burning flames and freezing ice.

Spell: Active
Target: Ground/Enemies
Range: 600/660/720/780
Damage: 80/130/170/210 magic damage
Cooldown: 20/18/16/14 seconds
Mana Cost: 90/100/110/120 mana
Effects: Adds "Burning" and "Chilled" debuffs
Burning: Deals 5/10/15/20 damage per second for 4 seconds.
Chilled: Slows by 5/10/15/20% for 4 seconds.
Note: It's kind of a cross between 2 abilities: Dark Lady's Charging Strikes, and Jakiro's Dual breath. The heroes dash forward twirling as they go, as they pass through enemies, they deal damage to it and add both debuffs. The point of this ability is for escaping/chasing/ganking with some interesting flavors added in for usefulness into end game, as T/L is an agi carry.
Use and Synergy: Used as an engage/escape/chase mechanism, and can be used in conjunction with unquenchable blaze for AOE damage and debuff action.
Balance: Because it does not cross unpathable terrain, and has a relatively high cooldown and mana cost, it's costs more than balance out the payoff.
______________________________________________

Hot and Cold (Passive)

http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/4922/hotandcoldedit.jpg
Tibor and Lumia are able to imbue their attacks and armors with magic, causing consective attacks made by them to increase in speed, and attacks made against them to be slowed.

Spell: Passive
Target: Self/Enemies
Effect: Increases attack speed of T/L by 3/6/9/12% on each attack made by T/L stacking up to 8 times and decreases attack speed of attacker by 2/4/6/8% for each attack made against T/L stacking up to 4 times. If T/L switches targets, the stack is halved, rounded down. Effect lasts 3 seconds for both effects.
Note: Very similar to enchantress's slow and rexxar's old stacking AS increase. Just bundled into one nifty ability :)
Use and Synergy: A strong passive to both handle some of the squishiness of the hero, and synergize with the ult, making a stacked T/L a powerhouse.
Balance: Requires uninterrupted attacking to truly be able to stack up to 8 times for maximum benefit. Hopefully someone on the other team is smart enough to stop you before you ramp up too much.
__________________________________________________ _____________

Unquenchable Blaze

http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/8877/wildfireedit.jpg
Lumia's anger is unleashed, blasting fire out in an AOE around her, while Tibor quickly quenches the flames, causing them to recede.

Spell: Active
Target: Enemies, moves out from self
Damage: 55/75/95/115 magic damage per wave
Range: 600 AOE
Mana Cost: 105/115/125/135 mana
Cooldown: 16 seconds
Effects: A ring of flame bursts out from Lumia, dealing damage and reducing physical armor. A ring of water from Tibor then comes out from 600 AOE and moves inward reducing magic armor.
Physical Armor Reduction: -1/2/3/4 for 4 seconds
Magic Armor Reduction: -1/1/2/2 for 4 seconds
Note: Ability takes 1 second to travel out to full aoe, and 1 second to recede.
Note: This ability works similarly to corrupted disciples lightning where the fire spreads out from a central location, and the water comes from the max distance out back to T/L after the fire has completed. Each wave deals it's own damage, and each debuff is applied separately, meaning that enemies have a chance to outpace it or move away from it.
Use and Synergy: Can be used in conjunction with Pyromatics for maximum effect. Good for farming creep waves or in group fights.
Balance: Relatively easy to juke or dodge, with a fairly high cooldown and mana cost.
______________________________________________

Wildfire

http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/9759/unquenchableedit.jpg
Tibor and Lumia's fury knows no bounds. They channel this fury onto a single target and will deal bonus damage to that target when directly attacking it, or when attacking another nearby enemy will additionally attack their focused target.

Spell: Active
Target: Enemy Unit
Mana Cost: 100/130/160
Cooldown: 75/60/45 seconds
Effect: Places debuff "Wildfire" on an enemy target
Wildfire Effect: Target recieves 25/40/55% extra damage when attacked by Tibor and Lumia. If Tibor and Lumia attack a different target, a second projectile will be fired simultaneously that "homes in" on the Wildfire effected target dealing 15/20/25% extra damage. Wildfire lasts 8 seconds, or until the target moves 800 units away.

Some explanation on this one: It's a two-fold ability. If you attack the target affected by wildfire, you deal 25/40/55% extra damage to them. If you attack a DIFFERENT target, you'll fire another attack simultaneously that hits your WILDFIRE target for 15/20/25% extra damage added to your normal attack. This WILDFIRE target must remain inside an 800 unit range to be hit by these attacks. The target does NOT however have to be within sight range for these attacks to occur.
Note: This extra damage is ONLY off of auto attacks, not from spells, and it only applies to T/L.
Use and Synergy: Works great with the passive ability, and the other two active spells can be used to help keep players in range for you to maximize the benefit of this ultimate.
Balance: Targets can move away from you to remove the debuff and negate your ultimate completely. Bummer dude.
__________________________________________________ ______________

Please vote on IDEAS and CONCEPT rather than NUMBERS!

And as always, your feedback is the most important thing :)

[Theta]

Role
Agility carry, capable of early game nuking, and end game domination.


A character shouldn't be early game nuker and then a carry at end game.

[dandylion]

You mean like soulstealer? Or moon queen? Or slither? Because that's what T/L is pretty much equivalent to. But I'm glad you took the time to read a tiny synopsis of the role before you cast your vote.





ORIGINAL POST
Tibor
and
Lumia



http://www.wizards.com/magic/images/cardart/GPT/Tibor_and_Lumia.jpg



Sound and Visual Design
Visual: Tibor and Lumia are one hero, but their model consists of both units.
When attacking, they both fire a ball of orange/blue that converge on their attack target.
Tibor is dressed in blue robes, Lumia in red.
Sound: "Time to heat things up!" "Drown your worries"
"To a crisp..." "It'll be a blast"

Story
Tibor, and his twin Lumia, (T/L) were the greatest sorcerers in the world. Their
feats were well known throughout the planes, and their powers unrivaled. Their power gave them a thirst
for knowledge and justice, and this thirst was nearly unquenchable. With their convictions to using
their power for the good of all people, they joined league with the Legion and oppose the dark
and wicked ways of the Hellborne. With the purity of water, and a fiery determination,
they vowed to purge the lands, and use their knowledge and power to prove themselves once again.

Affiliation: Legion
Primary Attribute: Agility
Speed: 300
Range: 400

Base Stats
Str: 18 (+1.6)
Agi: 21 (+2.5)
Int: 19 (+1.8)

Role
Agility carry, capable of early game nuking, and end game domination.

Quick Q and A...
Q: So... is this two heroes? or just a double model like techies?
A: It's one hero with a double model, similar to techies.

Q: But isn't Tibor based around wind and not water?
A: Yes, Tibor is technically wind and not water, however, I felt the abilities
made significantly more sense slowing and affecting magic armor as water/ice
than I felt wind would work. Besides, what fun is it to completely plagiarize
something anyways?
Q: Why agility instead of intelligence?
A: Basically, they're like Moon Queen, Corrupted Disciple, or Soulstealer. They have nuking potential
through their spells, but their main focus and skillset is built to carry.



Abilities


Pyromatics

http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/9290/pyromaticsedit.jpg

Tibor and Lumia dash forward twirling around each other, damaging each enemy they pass through, and slowing or igniting enemies they hit. Max distance of 600/660/720/780, deals 90/120/150/180 damage per hit, Tibor slows for 5/10/15/20% of MS, Lumia ignites targets dealing 5/10/15/20 dps. Debuffs last 4 seconds. 20/18/16/14 second cooldown. 140/130/120/110 mana cost.

Level 1: Tibor and Lumia dash forward a max of 600 units, dealing 90 damage to each enemy they pass through. Tibor additionally slows units he hits for 5% of their movement speed, Lumia incinerates his targets dealing 5 damage per second. Debuffs last 4 seconds. 20 second cooldown. 140 mana cost.
Level 2: Tibor and Lumia dash forward a max of 660 units, dealing 120 damage to each enemy they pass through. Tibor additionally slows units he hits for 10% of their movement speed, Lumia incinerates his targets dealing 10 damage per second. Debuff lasts 4 seconds. 18 second cooldown. 130 mana cost.
Level 3: Tibor and Lumia dash forward a max of 720 units, dealing 150 damage to each enemy they pass through. Tibor additionally slows units he hits for 15% of their movement speed, Lumia incinerates his targets dealing 15 damage per second. Debuff lasts 4 seconds. 16 second cooldown. 120 mana cost.
Level 4: Tibor and Lumia dash forward a max of 780 units, dealing 180 damage to each enemy they pass through. Tibor additionally slows units he hits for 20% of their movement speed, Lumia incinerates his targets dealing 20 damage per second. Debuff lasts 4 seconds. 14 second cooldown.110 mana cost.

Note: It's kind of a cross between 2 abilities: Dark Lady's Charging Strikes, and Jakiro's Dual breath. The heroes dash forward twirling as they go, as they pass through enemies, they deal damage to it and add both debuffs. The point of this ability is for escaping/engaging with some interesting flavors added in for usefulness into end game, as T/L is an agi carry.
Edit: I originally wanted this to work more like wild axes, but I see that as being less effective, and difficult to work around with the model. The animation would simply have them twirling while they moved forward, much like dark lady's charging strikes.
______________________________________________

Hot and Cold (Passive)

http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/4922/hotandcoldedit.jpg

Tibor and Lumia are able to imbue their attacks and armors with magic, causing consecutive attacks made by them to increase in speed, and attacks made against them to be slowed. Increases AS of T/L by 3/6/9/12% on each attack made by T/L stacking up to 8 times and decreases AS to attacker by 3/6/9/12% for each attack made against T/L stacking up to 4 times. If T/L switches targets, the coefficient is halved. Effect lasts 4 seconds for both effects.

Level 1: Each consecutive attack against the same target increases T/L's attack speed by 3% on each attack. Attacks made against T/L cause the attacker to have their attack speed reduced by a stacking 3%. Buff/Debuff lasts 4 seconds.
Level 2: Each consecutive attack against the same target increases T/L's attack speed by 6% on each attack. Attacks made against T/L cause the attacker to have their attack speed reduced by a stacking 6%. Buff/Debuff lasts 4 seconds.
Level 3: Each consecutive attack against the same target increases T/L's attack speed by 9% on each attack. Attacks made against T/L cause the attacker to have their attack speed reduced by a stacking 9%. Buff/Debuff lasts 4 seconds.
Level 4: Each consecutive attack against the same target increases T/L's attack speed by 12% on each attack. Attacks made against T/L cause the attacker to have their attack speed reduced by a stacking 12%. Buff/Debuff lasts 4 seconds.

Note: Very similar to enchantress's slow and rexxar's old stacking AS increase. Just bundled into one nifty ability :smile:
__________________________________________________ _____________

Unquenchable Blaze

http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/8877/wildfireedit.jpg

Lumia's anger is unleashed, blasting fire out in an aoe around him, while Tibor quickly quenches the flames causing them to recede. Deals 55/75/95/115 damage per wave, fire causes physical armor to be reduced by 1/2/3/4 while water causes magic armor to be reduced by 1/1/2/2. 400/475/550/600 aoe. Debuff lasts 6 seconds. 18/17/16/15 second cooldown. 150/135/120/105 mana cost. The farther from the center the enemies are, the less damage they take. Ability takes 1 second to travel out to full aoe, and 1 second to recede.

Level 1: Causes fire to quickly spread out from Lumia dealing 55 damage and reducing physical armor by 1 for 6 seconds. Tibor then quenches the flame dealing 55 damage and reducing magic armor by 1 for 6 seconds. 400 Aoe. 18 second cooldown. 150 mana cost.
Level 2: Causes fire to quickly spread out from Lumia dealing 75 damage and reducing physical armor by 2 for 6 seconds. Tibor then quenches the flame dealing 75 damage and reducing magic armor by 1 for 6 seconds. 475 Aoe. 17 second cooldown. 135 mana cost.
Level 3: Causes fire to quickly spread out from Lumia dealing 95 damage and reducing physical armor by 3 for 6 seconds. Tibor then quenches the flame dealing 95 damage and reducing magic armor by 2 for 6 seconds. 550 Aoe. 16 second cooldown. 120 mana cost.
Level 4: Causes fire to quickly spread out from Lumia dealing 115 damage and reducing physical armor by 4 for 6 seconds. Tibor then quenches the flame dealing 115 damage and reducing magic armor by 2 for 6 seconds. 600 Aoe. 15 second cooldown. 105 mana cost.

Note: This ability works similarly to razor's lightning where the fire spreads out from a central location, and the water comes from the max distance out back to T/L after the fire has completed. Each wave deals it's own damage, and each debuff is applied separately, meaning that enemies have a chance to outpace it or move away from it.
______________________________________________

Wildfire

http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/9759/unquenchableedit.jpg

Tibor and Lumia's fury knows no bounds. They channel this fury onto a single target and will deal bonus damage to that target when directly attacking it, or when attacking another nearby enemy will additionally attack their focused target. Deals 25/40/55% bonus damage to focused target, or if attacking another target, fires additional attacks at focused target dealing 15/20/25% bonus damage. Effect lasts 8 seconds. 75/60/45 second cooldown. 100/130/160 mana cost. Focused target must remain inside an 600 unit range to be in range of additional attacks.

Some explanation on this one: It's a two-fold ability. If you choose your focus target and attack them, you deal 25/40/55% bonus damage to them. If you attack a DIFFERENT target, you'll still hit the DIFFERENT target, but you'll fire another attack simultaneously that hits your FOCUS target for 15/20/25% bonus damage added to your normal attack. This FOCUS target must remain inside a 600 unit range to be hit by these attacks. The target does NOT however have to be within sight range for these attacks to occur. Think of "focus" as a debuff that lasts 8 seconds on the target, and attacks made are like homing missiles to the debuff.

Level 1: Tibor and Lumia focus their rage on a target, dealing 25% bonus damage when it is their primary target, and launching extra attacks that deal 15% bonus damage when it is not their primary target. Focused unit must remain inside a 800 unit range to be effected by additional attacks. Effect lasts 8 seconds. 75 second cooldown. 100 mana cost.
Level 2: Tibor and Lumia focus their rage on a target, dealing 40% bonus damage when it is their primary target, and launching extra attacks that deal 20% bonus damage when it is not their primary target. Focused unit must remain inside a 800 unit range to be effected by additional attacks. Effect lasts 8 seconds. 60 second cooldown. 130 mana cost.
Level 3: Tibor and Lumia focus their rage on a target, dealing 55% bonus damage when it is their primary target, and launching extra attacks that deal 25% bonus damage when it is not their primary target. Focused unit must remain inside a 800 unit range to be effected by additional attacks. Effect lasts 8 seconds. 45 second cooldown. 160 mana cost.

Note: This bonus damage is ONLY off of auto attacks, not from spells, and it only applies to T/L.
__________________________________________________ ______________

Self Synergy
Tibor and Lumia work best in smaller group gankings of 2v2 or 3v3 but is certainly capable of picking off targets and dealing significant damage in a 5v5 as well. The idea would be to cast both Unquenchable Blaze and Pyromatics, damaging with both nukes, and applying all your debuffs at once. This also maximizes the area in which your Unquenchable Blaze effects, but you need to be careful, because timing is everything. Then, with your targets armors reduced, and hopefully their speed, you start to ramp up damage on them with your Hot and Cold attack speed increase. Using Wildfire on a weaker target and dealing your main damage to another target can let you finish off the low target and start ramping up damage on your next kill target.

Quick damage math, 2 targets (spells alone): 200 Pyromatics damage + 100 damage from DoT + 230(optimum) damage from Unquenchable Blaze = 530 single target damage, 1060 to 2 targets (pre-mitigation)

3 targets (spells alone): 1590 damage to 3 targets (pre-mitigation)

Though these numbers may appear to be a lot of damage, realize that in order to hit for maximum damage on both spells it requires not only that both Tibor and Lumia pass through all the targets during Pyromatics, it also requires them to be in melee range during Unquenchable Blaze.

Similarly, Soulstealer is capable of 900 single target (3 demon hands) + his ultimate, which can deal 2400 if they're standing on top of you.

Hero Synergies
http://www.honwiki.net/w/images/9/96/Madmanhero.gifhttp://www.honwiki.net/w/images/9/93/Dark_Ladyhero.gif
Madman/Dark Lady
These heroes, while having a lot of chase potential, lack any long term or chainable stuns/slows giving many not-so-squishy heroes ample time to assemble around teammates or escape. With the armor reductions from Unquenchable Blaze, and the slow in Pyromatics, combining forces with either of these other carries offers a deadly combination of stopping power, making for quicker kills and easier escapes.

http://www.honwiki.net/w/images/4/4a/Wretched_Haghero.gif
Wretched Hag
Between the blink and slow from Wretched Hag, and the magic armor reductions and slows from T/L, easy in-and-out strategies for ganking become nonsensically easy.

http://www.honwiki.net/w/images/4/4b/Armadonhero.gif
Armadon
The slow and armor reduction from snot, combined with the armor reductions and slows from T/L cause this combination to be a truly frightening duo (or trio?) to be caught in a lane against as a melee hero.

And these are but a few combinations of heroes that would benefit from T/L and vice versa.

Hero Weaknesses
http://www.honwiki.net/w/images/d/d4/Electricianhero.gif
Electrician
Easily the most formidable foe to face with T/L, his purging slow can wipe out an entire build-up of AS increases, forcing you to either run (if you're fast enough) or waste time building them up all over again.

http://www.honwiki.net/w/images/1/1b/Succubushero.gif
Succubus
Having a rather small base mana pool, and being an easy victim for being gripped/slept/smitten, makes Succubus a rather nasty foe to be caught around. While there are always ways to get around disables, lasting long enough to get that far may prove to be a challenge with a succubus on the board...

http://www.honwiki.net/w/images/9/96/Madmanhero.gif
Madman
Having no true disables, Madman's ability to phase in and out of combat, in addition to his stun, will prove to make him a frustrating foe to outplay. Sometimes trying to catch that that cannot be caught can be something that drives you mad...

Item Synergies
http://www.honwiki.net/w/images/a/a8/Shield_Breakeritem.gif
Shieldbreaker
Easily one of the most attractive items on T/L as using your ult and attacking a target besides your focus target will cause BOTH targets to be affected by the armor reduction simultaneously. Can someone say pain?

http://www.honwiki.net/w/images/7/7b/Thunder_Clawitem.gif/http://www.honwiki.net/w/images/1/1c/Charged_Hammeritem.gif
Thunder Claw/Charged Hammer
Again, playing off of the ult, being able to not only attack 2 heroes simultaneously, but being able to bounce lightning off of them in addition, and giving you two chances to proc it could lead to some incredibly numbers as far as damage output is concerned.

http://www.honwiki.net/w/images/1/10/Symbol_of_Rageitem.gif
Symbol of Rage
In addition to making T/L less squishy, the bonus lifesteal used in conjunction with Wildfire can easily fill your entire health bar during the duration of your ult.

http://www.honwiki.net/w/images/3/3a/Frostwolf%27s_Skullitem.gif
Frostwolf's Skull
When you can keep both targets during your ult slowed, this could prove a very useful tool to help orb walk your way to CHAMPION OF NEWERTH.

Other useful tools:
http://www.honwiki.net/w/images/2/2a/Assassin%27s_Shrouditem.gif
Assassin's Shroud
Assassin's Shroud could prove to be useful in avoiding your own squishy demise, or setting you up for some incredible ganks.

http://www.honwiki.net/w/images/e/ed/Elder_Parasiteitem.gif
Elder Parasite
In addition to it's lifestealing capabilities, the increased attack speed in conjunction with Hot and Cold and Wildfire can be incredibly useful for addition "auto-attack burst" during a time where your opportunity for domination is prime.

http://www.honwiki.net/w/images/a/a4/Shrunken_Headitem.gif
Shrunken Head
As always, a disable heavy team can shut down any carry in a hurry, so being able to keep attacking and chasing without worrying how frequently you're going to get stunned and nuked to oblivion will make your days much less tragic.

Please vote on IDEAS and CONCEPT rather than NUMBERS!

And as always, your feedback is the most important thing :smile:

[Rentaromon]

ok you need to esplain how 2 heroes work. do they stay together, or seperate, can one get items and the other be effected? explain.

powers are ok but not that interesting.

[Verisi]

ok you need to esplain how 2 heroes work. do they stay together, or seperate, can one get items and the other be effected? explain.

powers are ok but not that interesting.Visual: Tibor and Lumia are one hero, but their model consists of both units.



It's like Techies--it just looks like 2 units, though it's really one.

[Nedrapter]

Rename as Niv-Mizzet :D and make it dragon, i never really like that card :P btw cool idea.

[Jager]

Is it just me or is the theme similar to twin head dragon from DotA(moves are different though). :)

[Zaraky]

Is it just me or is the theme similar to twin head dragon from DotA(moves are different though). :)

After reading the first skill, i was sure it was a port for twin head. but wasn't after all. Yes it's simillar but thats about it.

[Drasha]

I have two mtg themed heroes that you might want to check out.
Ashling http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?t=20125
Iname http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?t=20234

i enjoy taking themes from mtg and trying to port the general idea over to a single hero works best when you take a themed deck and use the general play concept.

[Bobnintendo]

Numbers seem to be weak but the I like the concept T-Up

[dandylion]

Thanks for all the feedback :)

The hero is in fact one hero, the model just consists of two units.

[Yyuurree]

Seems like a fun hero to play. Ult is powerful but the hero is overall easy to CC so it's not OP.

[penborough]

I like a lot of the ideas here. The jakiro-blink from skill one is really cool, and I like the ult a lot. It's very unique and allows for some interesting builds :) This hero would be a lot of fun to play.
+1

[dandylion]

bump

[Blitzl0l]

In-depth, and sounds like fun! I'm wondering how the Focus thing will work when the target is in 600 range. Will the off-character go over and start attacking the focus target, or is it all mechanical?

[Skyve]

Rename as Niv-Mizzet :D and make it dragon, i never really like that card :P btw cool idea.

Yeah, Tibor and Lumia as a card really wasn't too good :/

Btw, the story you wrote doesn't really seem to fit into the Newerth lore and should maybe be reworked.

[dandylion]

I was stretching a lot for the story. I honestly don't know a lot about backstory for Tibor and Lumia (and had trouble finding much about it online).

Blitz: The characters are simply one model. I'll try to explain the ult a little more clearly.

Imagine you put a debuff on a target. No matter who you attack, whether it be the target you debuffed, or another target, you send an auto-attack at the debuffed target every time you attack as long as that debuffed target is within a 600 unit range of you. The ult is broken up like it is for maximum effectiveness; so that it can be used 1v1, or in group battles.

Example: Target A is your focus target
You attack target A. Target A suffers normal attack damage, +55% (max rank).
Now you attack target B. Target B suffers normal attack damage.
Target A also suffers normal attack damage, delivered via a second auto-attack animation launched simultaneously, +25% (max rank).

Having your pie, and eating it too. Om nom nom :)

[ShredderIV]

i likes. once again, like in prism, i find no reasons why this shouldnt be a hero.

+1

[dandylion]

Thanks again for the input Shredder :)

[circumcised]

amazing +1.
I love the fact of putting a dual model character in.
and the passive sounds pretty fun :) would be quite good against arachna

[dandylion]

I felt there were a lot of heroes that this would be able to counter that have very few counters right now, and be countered by heroes that don't have much that they counter. It seemed like a good balance of abilities. Thanks for the feedback :) Keep it coming ^_^

[dandylion]

Bump

[Skyve]

You know what I think is a bit strange? That Tibor and Lumia are AGI, when they are supposed to be the greatest sorcerers in the world *g*

Apart from that it's ok though.

[Initial_G]

Everything is good, but don't you think that [Pyromatics] is unbalanced?
Let's see at:
Jakiro's Dual Breath : 140 mana, 10 seconds cd, 5 seconds effect, 360 damage total.
T/L's Pyromatics : 85 mana, 10 seconds cd, 5 seconds effect, 300 damage total.

I suppose you should increase, not decrease the mana cost of Pyromatics for each Lv.

[dandylion]

I think the slow/dot could be reduced by a second (to 4 from 5) and the cooldown increased by a second or two. I'll probably end up increasing mana cost to 100 at lowest rank.

As far as being agi over int, I felt that the acrobatic nature of the card lent better to agility than the fact that they are mages. I honestly felt I could have played it either way, and as I already have an int suggestion, I went with agility instead :)

[dandylion]

Bump

[sol43306]

Everything is good, but don't you think that [Pyromatics] is unbalanced?
Let's see at:
Jakiro's Dual Breath : 140 mana, 10 seconds cd, 5 seconds effect, 360 damage total.
T/L's Pyromatics : 85 mana, 10 seconds cd, 5 seconds effect, 300 damage total.

I suppose you should increase, not decrease the mana cost of Pyromatics for each Lv.

I would be more concerned about another "Dark Lady" complex where the spells are just too expensive to be usable without stacking mana regen. Remember that it's an int hero. However, I would either reduce the effect time, or the damage slightly (and perhaps increase the cast speed and cast point a little bit to compensate).

[dandylion]

Bump

[dandylion]

I would be more concerned about another "Dark Lady" complex where the spells are just too expensive to be usable without stacking mana regen. Remember that it's an int hero. However, I would either reduce the effect time, or the damage slightly (and perhaps increase the cast speed and cast point a little bit to compensate).

I feel the same way with the "dark lady" complex. Her abilities never quite get cheap enough to be as spammable as she needs them to be, and I feel she's one of the weaker carries because of it. I did nerf the duration down to 4 from 5, and the damage was reduced. Agility characters nearly always reduce the mana cost of spells as they go down, as it's a design limitation to not let them take control too early in the game.

[dandylion]

Bump

[lasercatz]

I like the idea. Though Tibor and Lumia are wind and fire, not water =P Anyways, I like all the abilities, and they seem to synergize just fine. The theme is good too. I like it a lot.

[RUSty_]

It's a nice carry hero which can do well against other carries in particular. Nice job

[dandylion]

Bump after removal from archives!

[OJPhoenix]

Story
Tibor, and his twin Lumia, (T/L) were the greatest sorcerers in the world. Their
feats were well known throughout the planes, and their powers unrivaled. Their power gave them a thirst
for knowledge and justice, and this thirst was nearly unquenchable. With their convictions to using
their power for the good of all people, they joined league with the Legion and oppose the dark
and wicked ways of the Hellborne. With the purity of water, and a fiery determination,
they vowed to purge the lands, and use their knowledge and power to prove themselves once again.

Why on earth is this hero AGILITY instead of INTELLIGENCE?! That story says Int so much its not even funny.

As for the hero skillset is pretty good though I must say, its a real nice combination that reminds of Jakiro in the way it combines Fire & Ice, okay you dont just have fire & ice but its still similar. So concept wise I'm really inclined to vote for it, but I refuse to do so till I hear why this hero is Agility instead of Int. If its because you want the hero to have carrying capacity so be it, you don't have to be Agility to be a carry, Puppet Master is a perfect example of an Intelligence hero being a carry.

PS: I am actually familiar with the card, Izzet deck ftw! :D

[dandylion]

Why on earth is this hero AGILITY instead of INTELLIGENCE?! That story says Int so much its not even funny.

As for the hero skillset is pretty good though I must say, its a real nice combination that reminds of Jakiro in the way it combines Fire & Ice, okay you dont just have fire & ice but its still similar. So concept wise I'm really inclined to vote for it, but I refuse to do so till I hear why this hero is Agility instead of Int. If its because you want the hero to have carrying capacity so be it, you don't have to be Agility to be a carry, Puppet Master is a perfect example of an Intelligence hero being a carry.

PS: I am actually familiar with the card, Izzet deck ftw! :D

At the time that I had originally posted this (notice the date, september), there was a request on the forums for ranged agility suggestions. I posted this, and due to the skill set (namely the passive/ultimate) they seemed to fit more an agility style hero than an intelligence one! Not to mention, most inties would have to be crazy to have an ability that blinked them into enemies!

[dandylion]

Tony the Tiger says: Bump for Grrrrrrrrrreat justice!

[OJPhoenix]

oh, I guess that makes some sense, I still think the hero should be an Int Ranged though... I guess it doesn't make much difference...

I'll vote for it, them... this hero suggestion lol, it is pretty well synergised and what not, I might make additional comments, but not right now, I'm struggling to keep my eyes open, I'm surprised I haven't completely collapsed yet... (no sleep last night)

[Zarent]

Moved to popular suggestions.

[Clovis]

i dont like the concept, its not an interesting addition to the game

[dandylion]

i dont like the concept, its not an interesting addition to the game

To each their own!

[Skyve]

I like the idea. Though Tibor and Lumia are wind and fire, not water =P Anyways, I like all the abilities, and they seem to synergize just fine. The theme is good too. I like it a lot.

Tibor and Lumia aren't "Wind and Fire", they are Blue and Red, blue being the "color" elementaly aligned with Wind and Water, Red being aligned with Wind (Lightning) and Fire (and also minor aligned with Ice, as you can see in Glacial Ray (http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Glacial%20Ray))

[Dario93]

i like them too a nice way to use this style :D really great concept and this picture :D

look at my tibor and lumia hero xD xD sry didnt see this one before creating ...

[dandylion]

i like them too a nice way to use this style :D really great concept and this picture :D

look at my tibor and lumia hero xD xD sry didnt see this one before creating ...

Oh it's fine, I more or less just liked the concept of the card. It was in archives and your post actually inspired me to pull it back out, tweak it a bit, and push it again! Got you to thank really!

[dandylion]

Tibor and Lumia aren't "Wind and Fire", they are Blue and Red, blue being the "color" elementaly aligned with Wind and Water, Red being aligned with Wind (Lightning) and Fire (and also minor aligned with Ice, as you can see in Glacial Ray (http://magiccards.info/query?q=%21Glacial%20Ray))

http://sales.starcitygames.com/cardscans/MAGGUI/tibor_and_lumia.jpg

"Tracing the horizon in a dance of wind and fire."
Flavor text begs to differ ;)

Not arguing that red and blue aren't aligned that way, just specifically that Tibor and Lumia do their thing with wind and fire.

[tobsecret]

I like this one especially for tibor&lumia as I also liked the MTG concept.
Which was unfortunately not really playable in MTG...

[dandylion]

I like this one especially for tibor&lumia as I also liked the MTG concept.
Which was unfortunately not really playable in MTG...

I loved the idea of the card, and I've used it with moderate success in an EDH deck, it's actually kind of fun. I also really liked the artwork, and I was going through some of my decks at the time, and the ideas just kind of came to me.

[tobsecret]

the mechanism was in the end not really usefull except in the heartbeat decks which were in the end too slow and couldn't keep up to 43 lands ;)

[Eater2]

oh just today i looked at my magic cards and found this pic :P
did u ask them to use it? ;)

re: ohoh just realized that u posted the cart some post aboth mine :D gg

[MeisterYoda1]

I like the pictures and arts and also the idea of the 2-in-1 hero (like Techies)

But the implementation is alltogether very boring imo.. no innovative skills.. just a normal agihero with slow and extradamage.
Especially the ultimate ist tedious.. just some extra damage and extra damage if you attack someone else
reminds me a bit to puppetmaster

what I however like is the balance.. but please give 1 or 2 skills more creativity.
that's why i voted: no

[dandylion]

I like the pictures and arts and also the idea of the 2-in-1 hero (like Techies)

But the implementation is alltogether very boring imo.. no innovative skills.. just a normal agihero with slow and extradamage.
Especially the ultimate ist tedious.. just some extra damage and extra damage if you attack someone else
reminds me a bit to puppetmaster

what I however like is the balance.. but please give 1 or 2 skills more creativity.
that's why i voted: no


Thanks for actually stating why you voted no, so many people just slap a no vote on there and leave because they're afraid of getting one of their own suggestions downed.

I understand that that abilities in and of themselves aren't very exciting. I look at heroes that are already in the game like Arachna, Warbeast, and Wildsoul and see a lot of the same things, if not worse. However "boring" they may seem, they're still incredibly effective. As far as innovative skills go, I'm not here to reinvent the wheel on an AGI carry. Carries only really have one effectiveness: attack damage. Building skills that cater to that style can only really go so far, otherwise you end up with agility heroes that aren't truly carries (zephyr/slither/andromeda).

[MeisterYoda1]

yes, I can understand your argumentation.
Sometimes the simple skills are more than complex skills, because they are easy to handle but you still have to think of it, when and how to use it. (like andromedas stun for example).
:)
The effectiveness is mostly the same.
It is kinda difficult to create especially a carry hero, who has innovative, creative skills. Because most of the skills has to be either percentdmg in it, or have to be passive.

I for myself try to create heroes who have a completly different playstyle and role than the heroes that already exist in Heroes of Newerth.
But I have the feeling that even less than 0,25% of the heroes posted here has a chance to get in the real game, because so many crap is posted here and the real good ideas persih under the mass of posts.
That's why there are not many readers.

[hzzzln]

cause your hot then you cold your yes then you no... nananana

[Blot]

This game does not need another nuker/semi-carry. Specially since the character does not fill a needed gap, as you said, we already have soulstealer/moonqueen/slither.

[dandylion]

Yow, folks bringin' a lot of hate over a simple suggestion.

[PeekabooHOE]

I personally think this is a fantastic idea for a new hero. Implementing a dual model for one hero like techies is nice. I liked the combining of ideas from dota with your own like a few of HoN's current heroes. I believe he could be a carry, however like you said he would be more of a slither, ss, cd or mq. I personally think this could be a very fun hero. As for balancing i think the limitations of the abilities work well to balance it out. His ult is very easy to deal with, and if people think otherwise decrease the range. Voting yes easily. One question though, is nullfire and elec's ult able to purge T/L's ult?

[dandylion]

As it's a magic debuff, I wouldn't see why not. It would be purged just like any other magic debuffing effect! Thanks for the feedback!

[Frago]

I just can't let you use WILDFIRE without burning all the lands and creatures of the target!!!! My Mono Red Deck is a land destroyer (Pillage, Molten Rain and Stone Rain as base) and see T/L Using WILDFIRE without doing some caotic AoE Damage just doesn't feel like T&L Card neither WILDFIRE card,...

Sorry bro, I love Magic more than HON =P

For me, you could do a T/L Casting Nuker/Disable AoE rather than a Agy hero,.. for the love to MTG!!!

[dandylion]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. When I made this hero suggestion, there was a post in the suggestion forums asking for Ranged Agility Carry type heroes, which is why this was made agility over int.

[SanataGin]

ok you need to esplain how 2 heroes work. do they stay together, or seperate, can one get items and the other be effected? explain.

powers are ok but not that interesting.


Does he really need to explain this .... have u never played techies ???

[BillAllman]

In your description it says Tibor and his twin Lumia but they were actually husband and wife. Not a big deal just a small observation

[dandylion]

I honestly hadn't known all that much about them, or the lore. Just really liked the card. Nice to know though. For all intents and purposes, it would somehow have to fit into newerth lore anyways!

[Sharok]

should have an ice skill rather than 3 fire

[Dr_Muto]

This character has potential to be a port of Jakiro from DotA. (Not sure about name, but something like that. The Twin headed Dragon, Not troll warlord)

[colondee]

u got stolen by nome
lol