Need abit of help with defiler

[Lamaine]

Hi guys, just started playing a few days ago and i'm really liking this defiler hero, even though i suck with her. So i looked at a few guides and they tell you what to buy and what to level and whatnot, theres a few questions i got though.

In which order should i buy each item? I really have no clue and i don't think i'm doing it the right way round.

How comes most enemies pop out of no where and just kill me in 2 hits (magmus for example)? How do i do this?

What does a homecoming stone do and should i use it?

Mainly i just need a order to buy which item and when, if you could answer other questions that'd be appreciated.

Thanks.

[ToxicHobo]

Get bottle first then enhanced marchers and then build sac stone. Get bracers after marchers but before sac stone if you're having trouble. Also get wards and rune the rivers so you can see where runes spawn, then bottle the runes to get a full bottle. Ask ingame where runes spawn and place the ward on the cliff near them. If you can't figure this out feel free to whisper me ingame and I'll show you where they spawn.

A homecoming stone teleports you to any structure after a 3 second channeling time. Use it to help allies if they're being attacked, escape, go to base to shop, come back from base etc.

Some heroes will always have the ability to quickly kill you, bottle will make sure you're on full hp/mana (make sure to get and use at least 1 level of your silence early game), enchanced marchers help you escape and bracers give you a nice amount of hp. Late game sac stone gives crazy regen/a nice hp boost

[FuzzyWuzzy]

Homecoming Stone is a teleporting item. You can use it to teleport to your fountain. use it DIRECTLY after someone stunned you, then they cannot interrupt it (since it's a channeling 1.5 seconds spell)

[Lamaine]

Ok thanks guys.

What is this bottle and ward runes, i really have no idea what they are or what to do with them.

Add me ingame, same name as my forum name.

[Glorify1]

Made simple:
Bottle
Enhanced Marchers
Sacrificial Stone
Behemoth's Heart
FrostField plate

There's much more to it, but that's the basics.

[Lamaine]

Whats bottle and how can they're be more to it is what i don't understand.

[BobSacamano]

Just stop playing defiler. To play her reasonably well, you're going to need to solo, which means you're going to need to be responsible for making sure you get runes every 2 minutes, and making sure you gank the side lanes that need help. You'll have a much better time learning the game if you take a lane nuker like Andromeda or Succubus.

Defiler is a hero that excels when played well early. If you get an advantage in items and levels on the enemy team, and you amass bloodstone charges, the idea is that at the end of the game your ultimate is powerful enough to kill anyone who attacks you, and you will have enough regen/hp that they can't kill you anyways.

[Lamaine]

Thanks, but i'm not going to just stop just because i'm not doing very well. Thanks for the tips though, just need to find out what this bottle is and the runes thing.

[Pheesh]

http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?t=5285
read this

bottle is under supplies and costs 600 gold. It has 3 'charges' that can be used to replenish both health and mana.

Runes spawn in the river in one of two spots on the forest map. When your bottle is empty of charges you can pick up one of these runes WITH the bottle (In my newb experience you have to 'use' the empty bottle and then click on the rune).

This stores the rune in the bottle; the next time you use the bottle will use the rune giving you double damage, illusion, invisibility or haste. I believe that's covered in the above link.
After you use the rune from the bottle your bottle will be replenished with 3 charges again. This allows you to stay in your lane and not have to go back to base to get health/mana.

[Karmashock]

Defiler is easy.

Get a bottle, get someone on your team to buy a courier... and then just rune whore while you spam your nuke on the enemy until they go away. If defiler can keep her mana up then no one can stay in lane against her. The trick is to know when to hit the enemy creep wave with the nuke and when NOT to hit it. Repeatedly nuke the enemy creep wave and you'll push the lane too far... which is bad. Don't do that.

Only nuke enemy creep wave when you think you can last hit two or three creeps and it's no farther then the middle of the river. After that try to deny your own creeps to pull it back.

[Lamaine]

Thanks, one last question. Is there anyway to level faster? I mean today i was in a 2v2 with my friend and the opposite team leveled so much higher than us, i mean i was level 18 and my friend was too, one of theirs was 25 and one was 19. They didn't kill any of us so i'm not sure how it happened. The one 25 was the spider guy, forgot his name, other was blacksmith.

[Karmashock]

Thanks, one last question. Is there anyway to level faster? I mean today i was in a 2v2 with my friend and the opposite team leveled so much higher than us, i mean i was level 18 and my friend was too, one of theirs was 25 and one was 19. They didn't kill any of us so i'm not sure how it happened. The one 25 was the spider guy, forgot his name, other was blacksmith.
They leveled faster because they got more XP. :)


There are different ways you get xp.

1. Killing creeps enemy/neutral/konger
2. Killing enemy heroes
3. Destroying buildings


Then there are ways you prevent the enemy from getting XP

1. Deny your own creeps/neutrals/konger
2. Don't let your own heroes die or deny them (some heroes can deny themselves or use abilities that allow you to deny)
3. Drive the enemy out of XP range
4. Deny buildings... especially towers.


If the enemy does either of these things well they'll level faster.


Think back to that game and consider what they did. ;)


My guess is that someone on your team fed like crazy and your team was bad at denying. In pubs the two biggest mistakes you can make are ramboing the enemy team miscalculating their ability to eat you... and not denying the hell out of the enemy.


Your carries should be farming the most. Early on, if your hero ultimately wont' need to farm much then don't do it unless it's convenient. Your biggest job is controlling the creepwave, denying the enemy xp, and if possible harassing them out of the lane. Pulling the creepwave near your tower and keeping it there is ideal. if you can do that without too much trouble then try to push the enemy away from it while denying everything you can. If you can do all of that, then you can farm.


IF you do this you'll not farm as well early but your lane mate should farm well while your enemy shouldn't be able to farm at all. On balance your team does better when this happens.


Now, different heroes do this different. Some heroes for example are better at just killing the enemy heroes then bothering with this denial/harassment thing. So if that's what your hero line up is then just kill the enemy heroes repeatedly until they rage and go to a different lane... or tower hug. If they tower hug then you can ignore them because they should be no where near the creepwave.


They could counter by pulling creeps... if they do this, then it's important that you gank them in the jungle.


Like most MP team games there is a psychological component to the game.

You have to make them fear your team. You have to make them feel unsafe... everywhere. Don't leave them alone anywhere unless whatever they're doing is going to hurt their own team. Then leave them to their own stupidity.

[Lamaine]

Thank you mate, im working on denying, any tips?

[Ozzzzz]

there are guides on this and guides to laning properly please use the search function.

[raced]

Thank you mate, im working on denying, any tips?

Any time one of your creeps gets below half health, you can attack. When you "last hit" one of your own creeps, it is denied and the surrounding enemies get less experience for that creep's death.

To last hit, you have to use 'a' and click on the creep that you want to deny. It is much easier if you put the health bars on always showing so you can keep up with last hitting and denying.

There are basically 2 ways you can use denying to your advantage.

1) You can wait till your creep gets low enough so you can last hit it. You will also need to take into account if your opponent(s) in your lane will attack that creep. If your opponent(s) are really on top of last hitting and denying creeps, then you will need to attack that creep differently to score the deny. This can be done by attacking it sooner, animation canceling, or attacking it later.

2) You can attack your creeps as soon as they get below half health in an effort to pull the creeps straight back to your tower. This keeps you safe from most ganks and allows you to still get efficient farming, even in a tough lane. While you do this, you should always be last hitting creeps to get more gold.

Remember, the more damage the enemy creeps take, the closer your creeps get to the enemy's tower and vice-versa. Auto-attacking creeps is generally frowned upon because it allows your opponent to easily time last hits and denies while you send the wave closer to his tower, giving him more protection.

And by the way, practice makes perfect! I hope this was at least somewhat helpful.

[Karmashock]

Thank you mate, im working on denying, any tips?
Just control the wave and last hit as much as possible.

It's lots of trial and error.

If I'm top on legion I tend to spend lots of time just attacking my own creeps when they get below 50 percent health which pulls the wave closer to the tower. My favorite enemies are the ones that just sit there auto attacking my creeps... makes my job so much easier... :D

the ideal place for the wave is where the creeps are ALMOST in range of your tower but not quite. That way you're very protected against enemy heroes... they can't really rush you and it's very hard to gank you. At the same time it's harder for them to farm because they can't melee attack your creeps and you might be able to attack them a little bit.


Just try to not damage enemy creeps unless you're going to one shot them with ONE hit. Why? Because if you do multiple attacks you cause their creeps to die faster then your creeps. That moves the wave towards their tower = bad.


Control the position of the wave so it's nice and close and just deny everything you can.


I did 20 consecutive denies once and the opposing team rage quit :P

They weren't very good but in my own defense neither am I... I know the rules. I'm just bad at execution sometimes.

Anyway, bottom lane on legion is different since you can creep pull which changes things significantly. Carry units should always go to legion bottom or hellborne top because unlike the other lane you can creep pull about once a minute. That means you can push the lane practically to the enemy tower, pull some neutrals out of the jungle to aggro your creeps, which should pull the enemy wave to your tower, then you can push them again.

This should also mean more XP/gold for your lane mate and yourself as the more survivable lanemate can stay in lane while the less survivable hero pulls creeps.


Typically a good team on bottom legion should be at least a level higher then the opposing team. That means you should be able to kill them or gank if they're not being careful.

The heroes that need to farm but can't solo should always go to bottom legion or top hellborne. The heroes that don't need much farm should always go to top legion or bottom hellborne.


A lot of this requires practice. I'd suggest you start some practice games and play with the creeps a bit to get used to it without the risk of getting ganked or pressure from your team to not screw up.

[Lamaine]

Thanks guys

[Glorify1]

How is there more to it? Items aren't static, you dynamically choose them to best suit the requisites of the match.

[Jagobah]

Here's something I'd like to ask in addition to the OP's questions:


What's the best way to control your lane with Defiler? Someone responded with one tip on using Wave of Death, but how would you use this to harass? How can you ensure it'll land and not get juked? What if you're laned solo mid versus Thunderbringer/Moon Queen/Pyromancer, how can you outlane them when they're insta-nuking you to death while they stay out of WoD range?


When it comes to team fights, should you silence the enemy team to initiate? Or stay further back and deploy it at a crucial time? If so, what's the best way to recognize that time so that the enemy team doesn't nuke you down with your silence on CD?

[Tensei]

Here's something I'd like to ask in addition to the OP's questions:


What's the best way to control your lane with Defiler? Someone responded with one tip on using Wave of Death, but how would you use this to harass? How can you ensure it'll land and not get juked? What if you're laned solo mid versus Thunderbringer/Moon Queen/Pyromancer, how can you outlane them when they're insta-nuking you to death while they stay out of WoD range?


When it comes to team fights, should you silence the enemy team to initiate? Or stay further back and deploy it at a crucial time? If so, what's the best way to recognize that time so that the enemy team doesn't nuke you down with your silence on CD?

In mid, outlane them by controlling the creep waves and moving them to beneath your ramp. As long as you're on higher ground, the enemy hero can't see you, so he can't harass you with nukes, and he can't anticipate your last-hits/denies very well either.
You should use Wave if you see an opportunity to get multiple last-hits in one shot, while hitting the enemy hero with it as well. An ideal situation for this is when you force the enemy hero to come down to the river by having the creep wave closer to your ramp. The range on WoD is huge, so use this to your advantage whenever you see the enemy hero standing in a straight line behind the creep wave. As Defiler, you can also abuse the range advantage your auto-attack has vs Thunderbringer, Soulstealer, and Moon Queen.

In team fights I usually open by trying to hit as many heroes at once with the silence, but ensuring that I at least hit their biggest nuker/disabler. It doesn't really help to conserve silence IMO since if you wait, the enemy team will have fired off the lion's share of their nukes and disables already, and they won't really care about being silenced when they're all on cooldown anyway. :P