Dota is a Joke

[Tralfamadore]

http://www.gosugamers.net/dota/news/14044-misery-s-not-so-miserable-experience

OFC Dota 2 is going to be big, no doubt. But why until then still waste your time playing dota?

The gameplay is choppy, the lag is ridiculous, features cannot match those through HoN, and the GRAPHICS ARE TERRIBLE. If i wanted to play a game competitively controlling a couple of boxy-looking figures, i'd play pong.

HoN > dota.

[S_SienZ]

While I'm not gonna stoop to his level and bash a game i love, and eventually led me to HoN, I think I can safely say that MiSeRy is a dick, always has been.

[Zakri]

I know, DotA fanboys are out of control ~

[mep]

hon will die when dota 2 comes out.
until then, enjoyy it

[DrunkDoter]

i agree with you on your points, except dota heroes are better. i still play dota from time to time for this very reason, and will switch to dota 2 when it comes out for this reason as well, unless we see some more DotA ports in HoN (which is highly unlikely :( ).

[Deityh]

Some people are just too goddaman stubborn. I also know people with good computers playing SC1 when they could just play SC2 with much better interface and graphics. It's incredible and I suppose its the same deal with dota and hon.

Tried to play DoTa some montsh ago btw. Couldnt. Too ugly and missing all the improments HoN added. When you try DoTa with major lag and leavers and lose reconnect,customkeys,instantreplays,nice gfx you really start to appreciate HoN more. Whats the point playing ages old DoTa when you have the new better version up and running?

[Senfei]

http://www.gosugamers.net/dota/news/14044-misery-s-not-so-miserable-experience

OFC Dota 2 is going to be big, no doubt. But why until then still waste your time playing dota?

The gameplay is choppy, the lag is ridiculous, features cannot match those through HoN, and the GRAPHICS ARE TERRIBLE. If i wanted to play a game competitively controlling a couple of boxy-looking figures, i'd play pong.

HoN > dota.

1. Your Friends are playing DotA
2. After 5 years you are familar with the gameplay and its little weaks
3. You like that little weaks
4. You enjoy the inhouse league your playing in
5. It is for free
6. Nearly every computer is good enough for WC3
7. You know everything about the scene and like to watch your favorite team bashing all tournaments
8. Better Balance
9. Overall higher skill-level
10. Less kiddies

enough causes?

[HashTrayz]

1. Your Friends are playing DotA
2. After 5 years you are familar with the gameplay and its little weaks
3. You like that little weaks
4. You enjoy the inhouse league your playing in
5. It is for free
6. Nearly every computer is good enough for WC3
7. You know everything about the scene and like to watch your favorite team bashing all tournaments
8. Better Balance
9. Overall higher skill-level
10. Less kiddies

enough causes?
this.
you sir are cool

[song_tinh]

I don't care about the bad manner guy like Misery (Yes, He act like kid)

I can know why Fnatic kicked his team out.

Remember: High Game Skill + Bad Manner < Mid Game Skill + Good Manner

[drkslr]

5. It is for free

im sorry since when blizzard is giving away warcraft 3 for free?
afaik dota is a wc3 map

[Yin`]

Not necessarily. Some people who hate each other in professional sports can still play together effectively.

[Robot]

dota is fukin awesome dude idk what ur talkin about and hon is based of it dota 2.0 is gona be 10x better personally i like dota better jsut wc = $30 i dont have atm haha
i used to play it when i went to internet cafes in korea but now im in the u.s. gg i still miss dota so much heroes are way more creative however dampeer is my new fav hero p

[Boinkmoo]

Honestly i think dota is still a better game, it has a sense of balance that hon doesn't quite have. Hon has the better engine, features, but the gameplay is still lacking. If hon was made to fix all the problems dota had it (dota 2) it would be a great game. But hey, there are still bugs from beta, lots of members of the community give input about what they like to see in patches and they are ignored. I friend of mine quit in beta because of the pathing bugs that make you run back if you are blocked and cant see the fogged unit which pretty much rapes you everytime in juke spots

[Aesij]

DotA:
* better heroes
* historically more interesting and fun metagame
* greater balance of game mechanics

HoN:
* better graphics
* more responsive
* better stat tracking and replay system

[HatTrick]

What's so much better about their damn heroes

Myridon, Zephyr, Electrician, Madman, Forsaken Archer, Arachna, Maliken, Bombadier, Fayde, Pandamonium, Chipper, Puppet Master, Moraxus, Nymphora, Engineer, even Scout.


All heroes that you will not see in Dota 2. And I can honestly say I'd miss quite a few of those.

[NC]

im sorry since when blizzard is giving away warcraft 3 for free?
afaik dota is a wc3 map

It's widely pirated and most people don't pay for it.

[mindspank]

If anyone of you would have played DotA competitively you'd know that you can get rid of the responsiveness delays in inhouse/tournament games. All in all it's just a more robust game with an infinitely wider player base.

[Deityh]

It's widely pirated and most people don't pay for it.
Not very good argument though...

[Tobb3n]

so what all of you nerds are saying
s2 needs to port all them damn heroes to survive?
lul
if you dont like the game wtf are you doing here then?:madm:
:blac: will come for da revenge!:mora:

[NC]

Not very good argument though...

It's not an argument, it's just the reality. I was explaining to him why he said it was "free".

[Aesij]

I think most people say its free because people either have already paid for it or will play the pirated version.

[rCore]

DotA:
* better heroes
* historically more interesting and fun metagame
* greater balance of game mechanics


Mind explaining how Dota has a greater balance of game mechanics and a more interesting metagame?

On topic, though, Misery is just a ginger and his opinion should not have any kind of value, because he has no soul.

[FreudianTrip]

Some people are just too goddaman stubborn. I also know people with good computers playing SC1 when they could just play SC2 with much better interface and graphics. It's incredible and I suppose its the same deal with dota and hon.


Not really they're pretty different games.

[Zulyar]

how dare people say dota has better hero's hero's as skeleton king isn't interesting even if hes pretty funny he isn't origional he has 1 active ability which is a single target click spell. manny spells are the same on heros, lina lion ults, (yes they're in hon aswell but they're still dota ports) rhasta and lion hex, and much more skills are exacly the same in dota, hon in that sense has BETTER HERO's as far as dota goes, its not as good as hon currently is. between hon and dota 2 stop speculating we do not know how both games will be at that point, play the best game.

[Dickrash]

http://www.gosugamers.net/dota/news/14044-misery-s-not-so-miserable-experience

OFC Dota 2 is going to be big, no doubt. But why until then still waste your time playing dota?

The gameplay is choppy, the lag is ridiculous, features cannot match those through HoN, and the GRAPHICS ARE TERRIBLE. If i wanted to play a game competitively controlling a couple of boxy-looking figures, i'd play pong.

HoN > dota.
Some people enjoy their slow-motion 70 min farmfest games

[Dickrash]

DotA:
* better heroes
* historically more interesting and fun metagame
* greater balance of game mechanics

HoN:
* better graphics
* more responsive
* better stat tracking and replay system


Dota metagame more interesting?
Trek the **** out of here son and go play farmville if you enjoy that kind of **** and better heroes?
Most dota heroes have been **** since beginning,problem is that icefrog kids think that hero with 1 active skill and 3 passives is "fun" concept.Or they are just too retarded to push more than 1 button per fight.

[GregerMoek]

What's so much better about their damn heroes

Myridon, Zephyr, Electrician, Madman, Forsaken Archer, Arachna, Maliken, Bombadier, Fayde, Pandamonium, Chipper, Puppet Master, Moraxus, Nymphora, Engineer, even Scout.

ALSO: Predator and Hellbringer!


All heroes that you will not see in Dota 2. And I can honestly say I'd miss quite a few of those.

Just added a few more of the heroes I like from HoN.
And before you start, Hellbringer and Predator are not identical to Lifestealer and Warlock.

[ImmortalTecz]

It's widely pirated and most people don't pay for it.

So if I say movies are free, you would say I was right just because you can download them?

The same goes for stealing then.

DotA isnt free, DotA is and will always be a wc3 mod/map, and wc3 isnt free.

[bAghEERA]

"About hon, I'm pretty sure hon will die when DotA 2 comes out."

+1

[massl`]

problem with hon is that they dont care about balancing...
the clash new heroes... overpower them by 300% and even after weeks they dont consider balancing... i mean if they are unable to balance well, they should at least make community balance polls...
only benefit from hon is the graphics and reconnect function imo..
calling dota a joke is ridiculous, because its the greatest game ever made...

[Dickrash]

problem with hon is that they dont care about balancing...
the clash new heroes... overpower them by 300% and even after weeks they dont consider balancing... i mean if they are unable to balance well, they should at least make community balance polls...
only benefit from hon is the graphics and reconnect function imo..
calling dota a joke is ridiculous, because its the greatest game ever made...
there hasn't been Overpowered new heroes since fayde first version afaik

[Schandro]

played 2 matches of DotA. was awful. Terrible graphic, terrible interface, terrible lag. God thanks hon exists

[FreiBierFred]

Concept-wise, DotA is still one of the best games around. Yes, gameplay sucks, but without DotA there would be no HoN (which is better than DotA atm because of its better software).

[S_SienZ]

Played DotA yesterday ironically for the first time in 2 years. Even in draft games there were noobs everywhere, going afk at random, leaving, not listening to the drafter, so I don't even dare to imagine what happens in publics. Was a fairly horrible experience.

[Tsuki]

heh this kind of toppic again :)

Also i just love the speculation about dota2 with folks goin "its gona be sooo superior to hon/lol/dota put toghether etc." as far as my personal opinion goes, they are gona try as hard as possible to make it mainstream, s2 said hon is and is gona stay a niche game, which i like (looking at where the mainstream games are going)

And as far as dota/hon goes well, dota was and still is a great map/game no denying it, but the w3 engine isn't. Playing inhouses is nice, but playing a pub game... well, you just don't... disconnects/leavers/kiddies even worse than in hon/lag etc. Thats why hon is great, if you have 2 friends to play with u can start a usualy decent game in few minutes and play it till the end! Also since the engine allows it they can be creative with heroes skills so hon still has alot of potential :P

Anyway after dota2 comes its gona be hard for all of the 3 games to survive (dota/lol/hon) but i think hon is the least possible candidate to disapear

[Z1D]

Agreed... Don't know how people can stomach Dota after playing Hon. Even if you prefer the balance/heroes of Dota, putting up with the 15 year old graphics, slow and muddy feel of the game, and people leaving immediately after giving up first blood is painful.

[nephroid]

Even though I'd rather still play SC1 and not SC2 (just a matter of preference), those DOTA fanboys that bash HoN without arguments 24/7 really are fking annoying.

[Skybound]

The only thing DotA has that HoN doesn't have atm is a serious competitive scene.

[ffy]

The only thing DotA has that HoN doesn't have atm is a serious competitive scene.

the only thing dota has that hon doesnt have is asian teams. so i guess i agree

[HUSO]

i agree. i played dota for years. but when i first tried hon in beta, i was amazed. no lag at all. and the game system is much better etc.

[JoshPFriends]

The only thing DotA has that HoN doesn't have atm is a serious competitive scene.
probably because dota doesn't have striders

[Stuply]

I don't understand why people hate on dota so much. I mean obviously S2 liked it so much they made their own game based 90% from dota. With out dota we wouldn't have any of this and I couldn't giggle every time I get a unicorn stampede.

Not to mention dota is great fun if you play with your friends and its not really that slow it just has its own timing. Im willing to bet most of the people that **** talk it tried to play and did absolutely horrible.

[Hsssh]

I think nobody in HoN community would hate DotA if for some bizzare reason DotA fanboys woudn`t hate HoN.

[sharpcat]

As someone said the only thing HON lacks is a worthwhile competitive scene.

That is what will make DOTA 2 > HON.

[CANTBESAVED]

As someone said the only thing HON lacks is a worthwhile competitive scene.

That is what will make DOTA 2 > HON.

Better hope DotA 2 is free for the Chinese and can run on their ancient computers.

[Methos_ST_]

care to elaborate,just give me couple names and we can talk how bad you are

ROFL hows chronos for you? Hows forsaken? Hows engi? rofl u have no clue my friend what you on about

[Aray]

dota players that bash on HoN r jelly and poor

hon was based off of dota (no one can deny that unless they're stupidly delusional). dota 2 will have a big impact but i dont think hon will die.

[`aNarchy]

I think nobody in HoN community would hate DotA if for some bizzare reason DotA fanboys woudn`t hate HoN.

DotA is fun because you can play heroes that you haven't played for a long ass time, but general pub games(even in garena, i can't imagine bnet pubs) no one wards/buys courier. no one. you're much more apt to play better pub games in HoN than DotA.

[mitha]

in dota, 50% of the games are decided by disconnects. sucks.

so hon>dota

and i suspect dota2 will be > hon, we will see.


on the topic of that interview in the first post: its a widely known fact that misery is a total *******. hes like sneyking except a lot more skill.

[DeviousAlpha]

1. Your Friends are playing DotA
2. After 5 years you are familar with the gameplay and its little weaks
3. You like that little weaks
4. You enjoy the inhouse league your playing in
5. It is for free
6. Nearly every computer is good enough for WC3
7. You know everything about the scene and like to watch your favorite team bashing all tournaments
8. Better Balance
9. Overall higher skill-level
10. Less kiddies

enough causes?
1. Your friends are also playing HoN.
2. After 5 years you're sick of the nuances of the outdated warcraft engine.
3. You hate the little weaks
4. You can use Matchmaking or just scrim up to a psr to be recognised without being vouched.
5. If you can't afford $30 you should stop spending money on weed and alcohol for 2 days. Alternatively: GTFO tramp.
6. HoN has adjustable settings, if you don't live in a developing country you can probably run it.
7. You can easily track the scene right down to individual player stats, team changes and even watch regular shoutcasts. Or **** it; just download whatever game you want from the S2 database, which you can search by hero/player/team/date/whatever! No need to wait for **** to be uploaded externally to sites like gamereplays or gosugamers.
8. Worse balance in dota (herp derp opinions are funny in that you can say wtf you like with nothing to back it up)
9. Overall lower skill level in dota (more herp derp your window must be pretty shiny - Oh and if you think skill should be defined by how well you can adjust yourself to lag/engine faults you're a moron)
10. More kiddies! Also foreigners! Also Leavers! **** LEAVERS.

I could list so much more, such as modable interface, shop fun(no reason to dislike it), etc etc. But whats the point you clearly are on the S2-hate wagon.

Something you're forgetting:
S2 has brought in a lot of players who never even played dota! Or did you not realise this? They have helped to expand the playerbase of a game genre you love. Credit where it's due an all that ****.

Finally:
Arguing on the internet is dumb, especially if you base your arguments on opinions instead of fact.

[Omnigrunt]

HoN's balance is actually superior to DotA's, whose dominant competitive strategy revolves around banning the strongest gankers/pushers (SF, VS, Enigma, Lion, etc.) and then abusing heroes with great survivability (Morphling, Alchemist, Medusa, Syllabear, etc.) to just farm farm farm farm farm for 45+ min until said heroes can buy back a few times and thereby carry.

The saddest part is that true hard carries aren't even used in DotA's competitive scene, because it's impossible to lane them properly when the other team has 5 bans to use to eliminate the support heroes you need to make them work. Perhaps if a team misses an important ban you can get lucky, but otherwise, no.

All you really need to do is look at replays here, http://www.playdota.com/forums/matches/ , or here http://www.gosugamers.net/dota/replays/ , and then look at the hero list here http://www.playdota.com/heroes , and you can figure where DotA has gone on your own.

Best version IMHO was either 6.48 or 6.59 (played DotA since 5.36 :O), where both versions metagames had a strong balance between solid solo heroes, gankers, supporters, and hard carries. 6.59 added some interesting bloodstone INT carries to the mix, but ever since 6.60 I don't think the gameplay has advanced a great deal. Over the years outstanding gankers and their core items have been nerfed, while cheap survivability items have been buffed/introduced (Hood of Defiance, Magic Wand, Vanguard), which has led to the game to shift to a more asian rice style. It's not quite as bad as 6.52 was, but it's bad.

Perhaps you could make similar comments about HoN, but the unfortunate truth is that HoN has a higher % of viable heroes then DotA, and items such as blood chalice and striders have made more, not fewer, heroes viable in higher tier games. Spellshards will give gankers a longer life span in games, and assist gold has been buffed so much that mass rice just isn't as efficient.

DotA's additional variety is pointless considering at least half of those heroes aren't usable in a serious game. Not that it's easy to find a serious game of DotA nowadays. My average HoN game has people on both teams buying wards/courier and ganking all the time, whereas the last few DotA games I played my teammates were just in their own little worlds, not communicating at all, not warding, and then leaving during the first 10 min after they die.

[ridic`]

1. Your Friends are playing DotA
2. After 5 years you are familar with the gameplay and its little weaks
3. You like that little weaks
4. You enjoy the inhouse league your playing in
5. It is for free
6. Nearly every computer is good enough for WC3
7. You know everything about the scene and like to watch your favorite team bashing all tournaments
8. Better Balance
9. Overall higher skill-level
10. Less kiddies

enough causes?

1. Friends can play HoN.
2. Gameplay is very similar.
3. Don't know what little weaks are.
4. This is reasonable.
5. No it's not. You need Warcraft 3 and TFT.
6. Nearly every computer is good enough for HoN.
7. How is this different for DotA than HoN?
8. Not better balance.
9. Can't be definitively proven.
10. Totally opposite. No stats ----> more ragers and dcers and kids.

[Anghkor]

DotA is the Goldeneye of this type of game. It will always be a great memory, and it was the innovator for the genre, however the last thing you want to do is go back to playing it regularly. Throw the cartridge in for some good times every now and again, sure... but ultimately -when compared to today's games- the graphics, UI, AI, controls, and more outdated issues will end up just letting you down.

Now an updated version, DotA 2, could be compared to the Wii's renewed version of Goldeneye. Very little has actually been released about it, so it's all speculation. Will it live up to the original? Will it maintain the same feel as DotA on the Warcraft III engine, or will they put a unique twist on it for Steam? Regardless, HoN will live on. While originally based on DotA, HoN has now evolved into a whole new animal, and will continue to grow as time goes on.

[stevefox]

whole new animal? yes.
continue to grow? eh, maybe?

[WindRaven]

HoN is like the Perfect Dark to DotA's Goldeneye.

Has everything the predecessor has and more, but that never seems to matter.

[r1g0]

MYM|MiSeRy: I think when DotA 2 comes out, everyone will start playing it and naturally it will take DotA's place. About hon, I'm pretty sure hon will die when DotA 2 comes out.
doubt it so much, and the kids in Africa will have food and on the US wont be fat people anymore, cool story bro

and about hon, im guessing S2 is hoping to people go play DotA2 and will feel it so slow and sloppy that after playing some games because they payed the $60, they will be coming back for some fast intense action, just guessing, could work, lets wait and see

[GucciGod]

DotA is the Goldeneye of this type of game. It will always be a great memory, and it was the innovator for the genre, however the last thing you want to do is go back to playing it regularly. Throw the cartridge in for some good times every now and again, sure... but ultimately -when compared to today's games- the graphics, UI, AI, controls, and more outdated issues will end up just letting you down.

Now an updated version, DotA 2, could be compared to the Wii's renewed version of Goldeneye. Very little has actually been released about it, so it's all speculation. Will it live up to the original? Will it maintain the same feel as DotA on the Warcraft III engine, or will they put a unique twist on it for Steam? Regardless, HoN will live on. While originally based on DotA, HoN has now evolved into a whole new animal, and will continue to grow as time goes on.
Except Goldeneye Wii was made by some no name developers trying to cash in on the name, so not really a good analogy.

[Codex5scout]

all of you are idiots. Demi God 2 will own all and you fanboys will cry in bed

[song_tinh]

Crysis 2 will pwn HoN and DotA (Graphics, Gameplay) :tund:

[Dickrash]

Except Goldeneye Wii was made by some no name developers trying to cash in on the name, so not really a good analogy.
Valve as a gamedeveloper is one big joke,how many good games they have spilled out? like 1 or 2?
Since release of original Half-life they haven't done anything worthwhile
TL;DR
Valve is overlooked company by dota kidz

[Hsssh]

Except Goldeneye Wii was made by some no name developers trying to cash in on the name, so not really a good analogy.

Calling 20 years old developers who have focused on developing licensed games "no name developers" is rather strange.

[MARCUS]

Lets face it dota was good back in the day but now it is terrible. It lacks the most basic features required.

However HoN still lacks the heroes.

[pain_killer]

i think HoN should really stop copying dotA's heroes.
they should come up with their own heroes and items.

if you are supposed to compete with dota 2 why copy it?

[Ryuukun]

1. Your Friends are playing DotA
2. After 5 years you are familar with the gameplay and its little weaks
3. You like that little weaks
4. You enjoy the inhouse league your playing in
5. It is for free
6. Nearly every computer is good enough for WC3
7. You know everything about the scene and like to watch your favorite team bashing all tournaments
8. Better Balance
9. Overall higher skill-level
10. Less kiddies

enough causes?

Although I agree overall, point 5 is crap.
WC3 is and will not be for free, at least not in near future.


Valve as a gamedeveloper is one big joke,how many good games they have spilled out? like 1 or 2?
Since release of original Half-life they haven't done anything worthwhile
TL;DR
Valve is overlooked company by dota kidz

HL1 & 2
Portal
L4D1 & 2
TF2
CS:S
Alien Swarm
DoD:S

All those games have a big fanbase and are successful worldwide.
On the top of that all oif them recived good-great ratings from the media.

Sorry bro but valve has yet to make a game that is not worthwhile.

[Skybound]

i think HoN should really stop copying dotA's heroes.
they should come up with their own heroes and items.

if you are supposed to compete with dota 2 why copy it?

It's been like half a year since they copied anything from DotA, or whenever Flint was released. If you look at the hero pool, there's an ever increasing amount of original S2 heroes.

[KLIM]

It's widely pirated and most people don't pay for it.

haha what an argument... So cars are for free cause someone steal them aswell ?

[ASS_BURGERS]

lol having never played dota I now understand all of the random whispers I get

[oldgrandad]

i think HoN should really stop copying dotA's heroes.
they should come up with their own heroes and items.

if you are supposed to compete with dota 2 why copy it?


Everyone ignored this troll post? Really?

[Kalium]

8. Better Balance
9. Overall higher skill-level
10. Less kiddies



Higher skill level?
Less kiddies?
IN DOTA?

In What world do you live?
Maybe if you play only inhouse leagues, put DotA pubs are a player's nightmare. Not to mention that in DotA, carries scale even more ridiculously.
(Phantom Assassin and Troll Warlord are just ridiculously imba)

[Skybound]

Higher skill level?
Less kiddies?
IN DOTA?

In What world do you live?
Maybe if you play only inhouse leagues, put DotA pubs are a player's nightmare. Not to mention that in DotA, carries scale even more ridiculously.
(Phantom Assassin and Troll Warlord are just ridiculously imba)

Higher skill level is very true at a competitive level and in leagues, not at pub level though. Also, neither PA nor Troll are overpowered, mate.

[GucciGod]

Calling 20 years old developers who have focused on developing licensed games "no name developers" is rather strange.
Just because you've been around for a long time doesn't mean you make a name for yourself. They've done next to nothing worth mentioning and it showed through Goldeneye Wii.


Valve as a gamedeveloper is one big joke,how many good games they have spilled out? like 1 or 2?
Since release of original Half-life they haven't done anything worthwhile
TL;DR
Valve is overlooked company by dota kidz
hurr valve sucks blahblahblah. typical anti fanboy, save it for someone who cares about your angsty opinion.

icefrog is still at the reins of the project, he has creative control, valve is basically just the publisher.

[WwD]

Calling dota the joke game is kinda ironic considering its competitive playerbase is huge compared to hon.

[Otolia]

People that play DotA first say the heroes/metagame/balance is better.

I'm really doubting that, though I played DotA 4 years ago during a whole year, when my 2v2 mate wasn't here. Different playstyle that is all.

You shouldn't be afraid of something new unless you are insecure ... And I guess it's the case of many here.

[FreudianTrip]

Calling dota the joke game is kinda ironic considering its competitive playerbase is huge compared to hon.

Mariah Carey's Christmas Album is better than your favourite band by that logic.

[mindspank]

Mariah Carey's Christmas Album is better than your favourite band by that logic.

Has it been acclaimed by the critics? Otherwise I do not get that analogy.

[FreudianTrip]

I'm both hungover and slightly drunk I assumed it just said playerbase.

My point was that Sales or Playerbase /= how good something is.

Big Brother UK is hugely popular, it's also the worst ****ing thing ever to be on TV. etc.

[Tsuki]

HoN's balance is actually superior to DotA's, whose dominant competitive strategy revolves around banning the strongest gankers/pushers (SF, VS, Enigma, Lion, etc.) and then abusing heroes with great survivability (Morphling, Alchemist, Medusa, Syllabear, etc.) to just farm farm farm farm farm for 45+ min until said heroes can buy back a few times and thereby carry.

The saddest part is that true hard carries aren't even used in DotA's competitive scene, because it's impossible to lane them properly when the other team has 5 bans to use to eliminate the support heroes you need to make them work. Perhaps if a team misses an important ban you can get lucky, but otherwise, no.

All you really need to do is look at replays here, http://www.playdota.com/forums/matches/ , or here http://www.gosugamers.net/dota/replays/ , and then look at the hero list here http://www.playdota.com/heroes , and you can figure where DotA has gone on your own.

Best version IMHO was either 6.48 or 6.59 (played DotA since 5.36 :O), where both versions metagames had a strong balance between solid solo heroes, gankers, supporters, and hard carries. 6.59 added some interesting bloodstone INT carries to the mix, but ever since 6.60 I don't think the gameplay has advanced a great deal. Over the years outstanding gankers and their core items have been nerfed, while cheap survivability items have been buffed/introduced (Hood of Defiance, Magic Wand, Vanguard), which has led to the game to shift to a more asian rice style. It's not quite as bad as 6.52 was, but it's bad.

Perhaps you could make similar comments about HoN, but the unfortunate truth is that HoN has a higher % of viable heroes then DotA, and items such as blood chalice and striders have made more, not fewer, heroes viable in higher tier games. Spellshards will give gankers a longer life span in games, and assist gold has been buffed so much that mass rice just isn't as efficient.

DotA's additional variety is pointless considering at least half of those heroes aren't usable in a serious game. Not that it's easy to find a serious game of DotA nowadays. My average HoN game has people on both teams buying wards/courier and ganking all the time, whereas the last few DotA games I played my teammates were just in their own little worlds, not communicating at all, not warding, and then leaving during the first 10 min after they die.

oh finaly someone put into words something thats been bugging me a long time, how can people criticize balance when the picks in competitive scene differ so much in hon, when in dota well...

But we all know haters gonna hate, and fanboys gona fanboy?

[Astrusum]

Although I agree overall, point 5 is crap.
WC3 is and will not be for free, at least not in near future.



HL1 & 2
Portal
L4D1 & 2
TF2
CS:S
Alien Swarm
DoD:S

All those games have a big fanbase and are successful worldwide.
On the top of that all oif them recived good-great ratings from the media.

Sorry bro but valve has yet to make a game that is not worthwhile.

Valve was just the publisher for most of those games, providing funds, with the content being made by the community or indie devs. You honestly think Valve made CS?

[Mazinkaiser]

HoN's balance is actually superior to DotA's, whose dominant competitive strategy revolves around banning the strongest gankers/pushers (SF, VS, Enigma, Lion, etc.) and then abusing heroes with great survivability (Morphling, Alchemist, Medusa, Syllabear, etc.) to just farm farm farm farm farm for 45+ min until said heroes can buy back a few times and thereby carry.

The saddest part is that true hard carries aren't even used in DotA's competitive scene, because it's impossible to lane them properly when the other team has 5 bans to use to eliminate the support heroes you need to make them work. Perhaps if a team misses an important ban you can get lucky, but otherwise, no.

All you really need to do is look at replays here, http://www.playdota.com/forums/matches/ , or here http://www.gosugamers.net/dota/replays/ , and then look at the hero list here http://www.playdota.com/heroes , and you can figure where DotA has gone on your own.

Best version IMHO was either 6.48 or 6.59 (played DotA since 5.36 :O), where both versions metagames had a strong balance between solid solo heroes, gankers, supporters, and hard carries. 6.59 added some interesting bloodstone INT carries to the mix, but ever since 6.60 I don't think the gameplay has advanced a great deal. Over the years outstanding gankers and their core items have been nerfed, while cheap survivability items have been buffed/introduced (Hood of Defiance, Magic Wand, Vanguard), which has led to the game to shift to a more asian rice style. It's not quite as bad as 6.52 was, but it's bad.

Perhaps you could make similar comments about HoN, but the unfortunate truth is that HoN has a higher % of viable heroes then DotA, and items such as blood chalice and striders have made more, not fewer, heroes viable in higher tier games. Spellshards will give gankers a longer life span in games, and assist gold has been buffed so much that mass rice just isn't as efficient.

DotA's additional variety is pointless considering at least half of those heroes aren't usable in a serious game. Not that it's easy to find a serious game of DotA nowadays. My average HoN game has people on both teams buying wards/courier and ganking all the time, whereas the last few DotA games I played my teammates were just in their own little worlds, not communicating at all, not warding, and then leaving during the first 10 min after they die.

this... oh god this

Can't wait for DOTA 2, so I can experience all these problems... WITH NEW GRAPHICS :scou:

[Sozmatron]

HoN is a piece of computer software, computers cost hundreds of dollars. HoN costs hundreds of dollars?

[Astrusum]

HoN is a piece of computer software, computers cost hundreds of dollars. HoN costs hundreds of dollars?

If you do not own a computer, then yes, getting to play HoN would cost hundreds of dollars. But at the same times, so does WC3 when you put things in that perspective.

[Polari]

I find it funny that one of the big arguments against DotA is the lack of stats and the fact that random Garena and BNet pubs are horrible. This is like only playing "5v5 NOSTATS AP ALL WELCOME" in HoN and saying the same things. If you want quality games, join something like DotAlicious and you're on par with HoN.

[isolated]

hon will die when dota 2 comes out.
until then, enjoyy it
i like how you blotted out your comment in your sig
makes you look special
:arma:


1. Your Friends are playing DotA
2. After 5 years you are familar with the gameplay and its little weaks
3. You like that little weaks
4. You enjoy the inhouse league your playing in
5. It is for free
6. Nearly every computer is good enough for WC3
7. You know everything about the scene and like to watch your favorite team bashing all tournaments
8. Better Balance
9. Overall higher skill-level
10. Less kiddies

enough causes?
how is dota free
or did you just not pay for wc3
derp

[isolated]

Although I agree overall, point 5 is crap.
WC3 is and will not be for free, at least not in near future.



HL1 & 2
Portal
L4D1 & 2
TF2
CS:S
Alien Swarm
DoD:S

All those games have a big fanbase and are successful worldwide.
On the top of that all oif them recived good-great ratings from the media.

Sorry bro but valve has yet to make a game that is not worthwhile.
Valve didn't make L4D/TF/CS/Alien Swarm

They were mods designed by others and later the modders where hired to remake them and publish them under Valve.

Valve doesn't really make their own games anymore, they made a couple good games, and they they're like microsoft: picking up small developers/modders and giving them a platform to release their game.

Valve franky lacks originality and isn't that amazing as a company, they're just good at business.

[Dragoneit]

The only joke here is this post lol

[MrShakur]

I don't understand how this is being argued. For any non pro gamer, DOTA is complete ****. Not only do the graphics make you want to kill yourself, but it takes 10+ games before you find one with no leavers.

DOTA 2 will fix this, but it won't be coming out for a while and right now DOTA isn't worth playing.

[MrShakur]

Oh and not to mention the cost and system requirements of DOTA 2 will probably keep many of the "pros" you nerds look up to on WC3.

[Ryuukun]

Valve was just the publisher for most of those games, providing funds, with the content being made by the community or indie devs. You honestly think Valve made CS?

No and that's why i didn't put CS 1.6 in that list.
They did make CS:S though, even if it's just a bad copy of 1.6 with better
graphics.

[Tsuki]

I find it funny that one of the big arguments against DotA is the lack of stats and the fact that random Garena and BNet pubs are horrible. This is like only playing "5v5 NOSTATS AP ALL WELCOME" in HoN and saying the same things. If you want quality games, join something like DotAlicious and you're on par with HoN.

naa in hon you just press enter queue (for matchmaking) and thats all,
for dotalicious you have to have the 3rd party programs runnign, than i wonder how big the comunity is/how quick you fill the game, also how is it when you play with 3mates of yours, since it seems the whole dotalicous forums seems to have 15k people registred, thats less than people online in hon. I know also divleague and some others have "some" rating system/leaver protection problem is there is no centralized system, meaning people are spread among thoose, so you usualy have to wait alot before entering a decent game. Not to forget to mention in battle.net you can change your account name (hence your league/group id with a singe click, its like free stat reset)

And yeah pro-level gamers in dota i can totally understand, why they wanna stay and play there, evem some hardcore casual gamers i mean why change if you are comortable there.
but for anyone willing to accept the challenge to learn a new game, i dont see any point in staying with dota. Even in this thread i didn't see a single argument pointing out something thats beter in dota than in hon, at tops it same.
(and ofc alrdy mentioned dota downsides: sluginess,lags, blance, graphics,.....)

Also i never understood why dotards hate hon? wat da hell did the hon do to you, are u jealous, troll or just stupid?

I loved dota and i still do, its a game that gave me a lot of hours of play time, but hon is better so why bother with dota now idgi ....

[esT_aLKA]

Wow i've actually checked the recent DotA competitive matches and it true, the heroes are really always the same!

It wasnt like this when i've played it last (6.60), what happened, alche was barely picked, now he is ban/pick material.

[Negerkung]

Rofl..

Dota is so much better and funnier and I cant wait for dota 2 to come out.

Really only thing hon has that makes it better is the engine and that you can reconnect.

And only reason why people play hon now is because dota is quite unplayable but when dota 2 comes everyone will change back.

Hon just dont have same feeling as dota and the heros in hon are so boring.

In short how I feel about hon;

Hon just feels like a mess.

Hon should just copy all the dota heros and not remake them to some boring crap.

I WANT DOTA 2

[chu]

dota2 or gtfo

[Ryuukun]

dota2 or gtfo

Do you think the competitive scene of HoN will migrate to DotA2?

[spOtLighT`]

the only thing that is a joke is the OP. u probably sucked in dota and thats why u moved to hon and ur sub conscious is just creating a defense mechanism for your shittiness. its fine, all the "top" hon players never were any good in dota except a few and will get sent to were they belong (the trashcan) when dota 2 comes out. This is all

[Machiavelli`]

HoN is definitely moving into another direction though and now seems to be more attractive to the casual players. That's definitely good. This way even if the majority of the competitive players will move to DotA 2, the game itself won't die and the quantity of the players will still remain on an acceptable level. Most of the times, quality comes from quantity, so I think the comp scene will be able to reborn with fresh and homegrown blood.

I really hope DotA 2 will be an awesome game though.

[spOtLighT`]

and Idiots think the top dota players will stay. are u ****ing dumb? look at sc2, even tho its a worse game, the top western players ALL switched because the money in sc2 is 1000000x the money in brood war. really ignorant ****s in this forum. the chinese will follow too, Ehome is already going to represent dota 2

[Polari]

naa in hon you just press enter queue (for matchmaking) and thats all,
for dotalicious you have to have the 3rd party programs runnign, than i wonder how big the comunity is/how quick you fill the game, also how is it when you play with 3mates of yours, since it seems the whole dotalicous forums seems to have 15k people registred, thats less than people online in hon. I know also divleague and some others have "some" rating system/leaver protection problem is there is no centralized system, meaning people are spread among thoose, so you usualy have to wait alot before entering a decent game. Not to forget to mention in battle.net you can change your account name (hence your league/group id with a singe click, its like free stat reset)

And yeah pro-level gamers in dota i can totally understand, why they wanna stay and play there, evem some hardcore casual gamers i mean why change if you are comortable there.
but for anyone willing to accept the challenge to learn a new game, i dont see any point in staying with dota. Even in this thread i didn't see a single argument pointing out something thats beter in dota than in hon, at tops it same.
(and ofc alrdy mentioned dota downsides: sluginess,lags, blance, graphics,.....)

Also i never understood why dotards hate hon? wat da hell did the hon do to you, are u jealous, troll or just stupid?

I loved dota and i still do, its a game that gave me a lot of hours of play time, but hon is better so why bother with dota now idgi ....

What you're talking about is the ease of using the interface and I agree, HoN is miles better in that regard. But from what I've seen from a friend of mine who's much better in these games than I am and who plays on DotAlicious, it's much less of a hassle than you'd think, and yes, you do find good games in there just like you do in HoN. It's really a separate argument - to get close to the same functionality as in HoN you need to jump through all kinds of hoops (DotAlicious, Warkeys, etc), but if you're willing to do that, the result is actually pretty good.

Also I hope that the rest of your post wasn't addressed to me, as I was only talking about this one argument. For the record, I like HoN better than DotA, but I think the difference is small enough that while I'd recommend HoN to anyone new to these games, I can easily understand not wanting to learn things over again if you're a DotA vet. I don't understand the HoN hate either. I just stumbled upon a certain gosugamers thread linked elsewhere here, and the amount of hate was ridiculous, being much, much worse than in HoN/LoL threads on these two forums.

[Tsuki]

the thing is, every dota fanboy goes "HON SUCKZ DOTA RULES" with no argument, as there were in few posts inbetween with:
"Dota is so much better and funnier and I cant wait for dota 2 to come out."

and than some funny half argument comes out as in "but in dota we have this!", and in hon alrdy exists and its better :)

and yet i didnt see a single non subjective argument as why dota is better, and why hon is to be hated. And i did love dota and played it for 2 or 3 years.

And the most hilarious of them all is the dota2 hype with pure speculations. You do know its not gona be the same, it cant be, from blizard copyright stuff, to simple w3c engine, they wont reimplement thoose litle weaks you all dota fanboys love, and for it to be(at release in 2yr?) better than hon, whos comunity will grow even bigger and s2 with the help of the comunity will polish it even more, well valve will have show alot.

[Polari]

Yeah, agreed on pretty much everything. It's just that some of the hon fanbois in this thread are as bad as their dota counterparts, which was ticking me off.

How hard can it be to accept they are both good games with their strengths, weaknesses, and more than either of those, their similarities? The fact that you like one better doesn't mean the other one has to be unplayable crap ffs. In fact, you'd probably be playing it if your favourite didn't exist.

[MeneerKrabs]

1. Your Friends are playing DotA
2. After 5 years you are familar with the gameplay and its little weaks
3. You like that little weaks
4. You enjoy the inhouse league your playing in
5. It is for free
6. Nearly every computer is good enough for WC3
7. You know everything about the scene and like to watch your favorite team bashing all tournaments
8. Better Balance
9. Overall higher skill-level
10. Less kiddies

enough causes?
1. Not really.
2. Not if you never played dota.
3. Not really.
4. Not really.
5. Not really.
6. Nearly every computer is good enough for a game better then WC3.
7. Not really.
8. Not really.
9. So what?
10. Not really.

Enough not really's?

[Hsssh]

Can we all just bash LoL? Would be much better.

[Polari]

Can we all just bash LoL? Would be much better.

Now this is something I can get behind.

[Sunnh]

Agreed. **** LoL, it's a piece of **** game (same with DemiGod.. jeez..)

Also, I love(d) DotA and I love HoN. I just prefer playing HoN. :D

Peace! :poll:

[MrBigHuge]

1. Your Friends are playing DotA
2. After 5 years you are familar with the gameplay and its little weaks
3. You like that little weaks
4. You enjoy the inhouse league your playing in
5. It is for free
6. Nearly every computer is good enough for WC3
7. You know everything about the scene and like to watch your favorite team bashing all tournaments
8. Better Balance
9. Overall higher skill-level
10. Less kiddies

enough causes?


1. I don't have any friends so i have no rebuttal for this point.
2. Takes ~4 seconds to make the adjustment to HoN (store maybe ~8 seconds)
3. ^
4. ..................
5. WC3 is not free, and both are free to play.
6. HoN requirements aren't exactly next gen
7. ..................
8. maybe, I don't really remember what it was like.
9. YEAH, BECAUSE THE CONTROLS ****ING SUCKED
10. Maybe in the previously mentioned in house leagues, but once servers started packing stats the people became the exact same as they are here.


So only points 1 and 8 have any merit, and point 1 doesn't really have anything to do with the game itself.

Enough now?

[Tsuki]

Can we all just bash LoL? Would be much better.
Lol probably isn't even worth mentioning thats why :)

[Doinkmoo]

Tralf cries more then dota players.

[DreamCatcher]

Higher skill level?
IN DOTA?


Maybe not on average (cause the average DotA pubber is reallyreallyreallyreallyreally ****ing bad), but on the higher levels, yes.

[MrBigHuge]

i agree with you on your points, except dota heroes are better. i still play dota from time to time for this very reason, and will switch to dota 2 when it comes out for this reason as well, unless we see some more DotA ports in HoN (which is highly unlikely :( ).


I think the only thing that's better are some of the item / hero names. Vector targeting has some really neat possibilities, and that's something dota doesn't have. Obviously, vector targeting has not been capitalized on, so I guess moot point is moot.

[triplej]

First: why is this in competitive chat? This really brings nothing to anything except to increase OP's e-peen. And on that note:
http://imagemacros.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/successful-troll-is-successful.jpg

Now, for my two cents:

I play both HoN and DotA, and I must admit that I do rather like HoN; however, it seems to be more of an entry-level game. Every ability seems to do 7 things; every hero has an animation/projectile speed that Wally West would be envious of; etc, etc. What keeps me playing this game is the fact that the hotkeys don't blow (I'm on a laptop, so I don't have a numberpad to use my inventory), some of the hero models are better - small, subtle touches.

That being said, DotA is my breadwinner because

1) IceFrog is a beast (he is working on DotA2 but he still manages to keep DotA updated moderately frequently, which is more than S2 does. They've gotten better after 2.0, but they're still not on his level. And he's one person, as opposed to a whole team).

2) The DotA heroes that are in HoN are the original heroes and not shadows of their former selves (it was nice knowing you, Ogre Magi/Lifestealer/Nerubian Assassin/Axe/Faceless). Yes, some are better, but I was never a big Nevermore fan.

3) HoN is a lot more stressful (I never raged at my team in DotA for losing because of an insignificant number, and I can actually leave games where everyone sucks instead of sticking it out because the bastards won't concede).

4) The community isn't retarded trolls.

5) New heroes seems to have a lot more depth to them (yes, Tuskarr was a bit stupid, but I don't think I've seen a noob friendly INT semi-carry with 2 stuns, 2 slows, and 3 300+ damage nukes in DotA)

There are probably some more points that I have missed, but these are the main ones, I think.

[Brannock]

4) The community isn't retarded trolls.

You must have missed the entire Merlini fiasco.

[Kapu]

HoN is like the Perfect Dark to DotA's Goldeneye.

Has everything the predecessor has and more, but that never seems to matter.

Best analogy ever

[Rayne_Mayne]

I'm sure hon will continue to go strong. If this thread is any indicator, hon has a strong player base.

I don't hate hon. It is certainly turning into its own game. But I am not a fan of the direction the game is going, and will probably make the switch to dota2. I don't like striders/chalice, and in general i don't agree with the stated Design goals s2 has come out with. Am i insulting them for it? No, its their game, they can take it in their own direction. There are plenty of people that like the way the game is and has been heading. I am not one of those people, and I know several people who agree.

Hon has, in my opinion, complete dominance of the 'dota-game' genre atm. wc3 dota is outdated. The lengths that i would have to go to to play games as good and lag free as the ones i get from hon are too much for a lazyman like me to go through.

Hopefully when dota2 comes out, people who like the new playstyle hon has been aiming to create will continue to play hon. But dota2 will provide the next gen version of dota. Where gameplay in dota stays the same, but updates the outdated graphics, lag and connection problems of the wc3 engine.

[Doinkmoo]

Best analogy ever

Agreed

[S_SienZ]

1) IceFrog is a beast (he is working on DotA2 but he still manages to keep DotA updated moderately frequently, which is more than S2 does. They've gotten better after 2.0, but they're still not on his level. And he's one person, as opposed to a whole team).

Sure, coz the people at Valve are just people who bring him drinks / wipe his sweat. Honestly imo the transition to DotA 2 can be done mostly by Valve's team with his supervision, since there's no need to change anything ( according to what seems to be the general wishes of the DotA community ). It's just moving it to the Source Engine, which I doubt Icefrog has more expertise than the Valve crew.

2) The DotA heroes that are in HoN are the original heroes and not shadows of their former selves (it was nice knowing you, Ogre Magi/Lifestealer/Nerubian Assassin/Axe/Faceless). Yes, some are better, but I was never a big Nevermore fan.

I'm not exactly sure what point you're trying to make here.

3) HoN is a lot more stressful (I never raged at my team in DotA for losing because of an insignificant number, and I can actually leave games where everyone sucks instead of sticking it out because the bastards won't concede).

Who's fault exactly is that? You know it's insignificant, yet you allow yourself to rage over it?

4) The community isn't retarded trolls.

You've got to be kidding me.

5) New heroes seems to have a lot more depth to them (yes, Tuskarr was a bit stupid, but I don't think I've seen a noob friendly INT semi-carry with 2 stuns, 2 slows, and 3 300+ damage nukes in DotA)

I'm struggling to figure out which hero you're talking about. If it's Myrmidon then

1. 1st skill is not easy to land on free running targets when opponents are good.

2. 2nd skill stun can be easily dodged

3. I can't find a 3rd nuke. In fact, I can't find a nuke with over 300 damage.

4. Being so incredibly squishy and aim dependant I don't see how he's noob friendly.

There are probably some more points that I have missed, but these are the main ones, I think.

Replies in red.

[Fuga]

1) IceFrog is a beast (he is working on DotA2 but he still manages to keep DotA updated moderately frequently, which is more than S2 does. They've gotten better after 2.0, but they're still not on his level. And he's one person, as opposed to a whole team).

LOL

I never raged at my team in DotA for losing because of an insignificant number
how is this hon's fault

[MrBigHuge]

HoN is a lot more stressful (I never raged at my team in DotA for losing because of an insignificant number, and I can actually leave games where I get first blooded



Fixed.

People not conceding is a pain, but it's better than people constantly leaving.

[chaR`]

I never played dota until after I played hon.
So i got wc3 for like 10buck n installed dota, which was a horrid experience.

Regardless of how much ppl like certain dota heroes or think the balance is better, the controls n ui gave me nightmares. Especially since i have a shitfck AZERTY keyboard n just to use 3 simple razes I had to portal key all over my keyboard.

Now I can defo understand why ppl see it as more skilled, it's just a general thing that happens in eSports for some reason (Im kinda guilty of it myself, having played cs1.6 for very long I still see anybody who plays css as a huge faggot).
But people need to realize that this is a shitfck worthless logic. Imagine the same would be applied to other sports. Formula 1 drivers would suck if they dont drive around in cars from 100years ago going by this logic.
http://www.boerenmert.nl/images/Oldtimers%202007%20(58).jpg

This **** doesnt require more skill to drive than the one below either.
http://blog.niot.net/blog-images/22_Dec/matech-clinches-fia-gt3-title-with-ford-gt-developing-gt1-conte.jpg
But yeah, it's simply retarded logic, that is very much incorperated by the esport community. If it isnt old n shitty to control, it aint skilled.

[Relinquish`]

9. Overall higher skill-level


lolwut?

[joel1031]

lolwut?

Somehow people who play videogames have this notion where unnecessarily complex and clunky gameplay controls/mechanics means it takes more skill to play.

[Anakha]

6.70:
Added a new hero (Tuskarr)

6.70b:
Announce we dun goofed and severely nerf half of his skills.
* Walrus Punch cooldown from 18/16/14 to 30/24/18
* Walrus Punch landing damage from 100/200/300 to 75/150/225
* Walrus Punch crit from 2.5 to 2.25
* Snowball max chase duration from 4 to 3.25 seconds
* Snowball no longer dispels negative buffs on you and your allies while rolling


Even better: * Fixed Degen Aura working against towers

LOL

[Nani`]

But yeah, it's simply retarded logic, that is very much incorperated by the esport community. If it isnt old n shitty to control, it aint skilled.

Sir, I am going to quote you and put you in my signature, because that's exactly what's been bugging me about all those DotA-fanboys who come up with this 'skill-argument' everyone it's aobut to go HoN vs DotA.

[Skybound]

Sir, I am going to quote you and put you in my signature, because that's exactly what's been bugging me about all those DotA-fanboys who come up with this 'skill-argument' everyone it's aobut to go HoN vs DotA.

I think what most people mean when mentioning skill is the skill level of players at a high level, i.e. most pro Asian (and some EU) DotA teams are incomparable to the top HoN teams, because they're simply so retardedly much better. If anyone's to argue this, just look at game style and decision making in pro DotA vs. pro HoN.

Pro HoN still has a LONG way to go in terms of competitive skill level, and if you're ever in doubt of that, go watch EHome, DTS, LGD, NV.Cherry, Deity, SB or NWO or almost any other highly recognized DotA team and watch how amazingly few mistakes they make, and how important slight mistakes are, and compare this to the best HoN teams. I think you'll quickly notice that
1) DotA teams make less mistakes
2) When there's been commited a mistake in DotA, the enemy team capitalizes immediately
and
3) DotA teams go through all means necessary to minimalize the room for error.
In HoN, there seems to be more of a "in the moment" attitude amongst the top teams, while in DotA, everything has a deliberate plan. Try to follow both scenes simultaneously, and you'll quickly see how huge the skill gap between the two games still is.

Meh.

[LUC3NT]

Skybound is sooo correct.
Pro Dota teams are literally masterful in every hero, just they have specialties in specific roles. The amount of rebound available in HoN is just too child friendly when going competitive. Maybe HoN is just making this easier for beginning players but still, if one is to go competitive they gotta know what that is.

[EhOhhEss]

6.70:
Added a new hero (Tuskarr)

6.70b:
Announce we dun goofed and severely nerf half of his skills.
* Walrus Punch cooldown from 18/16/14 to 30/24/18
* Walrus Punch landing damage from 100/200/300 to 75/150/225
* Walrus Punch crit from 2.5 to 2.25
* Snowball max chase duration from 4 to 3.25 seconds
* Snowball no longer dispels negative buffs on you and your allies while rolling


Even better: * Fixed Degen Aura working against towers

LOL

Icefrog purposely makes all new heroes slightly overpowered because its easier to rebalance by nerfing than from buffing.

It's awesome to have developer so dedicated that he gathers up all the information from the players and makes changes the very next day to fix any bugs.

[Hsssh]

I remember when Idejder(i think) posted that S2 makes new heroes a bit OP at first on purpose for same reason everyone called him retarded.

[HatTrick]

Icefrog purposely makes all new heroes slightly overpowered because its easier to rebalance by nerfing than from buffing.

It's awesome to have developer so dedicated that he gathers up all the information from the players and makes changes the very next day to fix any bugs.

You apparently didn't play against buffed Forsaken Archer or old Engineer.

[Nani`]

I think what most people mean when mentioning skill is the skill level of players at a high level, i.e. most pro Asian (and some EU) DotA teams are incomparable to the top HoN teams, because they're simply so retardedly much better. If anyone's to argue this, just look at game style and decision making in pro DotA vs. pro HoN.

Pro HoN still has a LONG way to go in terms of competitive skill level, and if you're ever in doubt of that, go watch EHome, DTS, LGD, NV.Cherry, Deity, SB or NWO or almost any other highly recognized DotA team and watch how amazingly few mistakes they make, and how important slight mistakes are, and compare this to the best HoN teams. I think you'll quickly notice that
1) DotA teams make less mistakes
2) When there's been commited a mistake in DotA, the enemy team capitalizes immediately
and
3) DotA teams go through all means necessary to minimalize the room for error.
In HoN, there seems to be more of a "in the moment" attitude amongst the top teams, while in DotA, everything has a deliberate plan. Try to follow both scenes simultaneously, and you'll quickly see how huge the skill gap between the two games still is.

Meh.
I actually watch a lot of DotA games still, preferably asian games since I mainly watch tobis and luminous' casts, and I do agree with you on that point, but what I mean is that they argue that DotA takes more skill to play, which I think is an misinterpretion of the clumsy and old War3 engine's handling. And that is just retarded, in my eyes.
So old skies take more 'skill' to ride? Old bycicles take more 'skill' to ride? No, they don't. They're just way more complicated than they need to be. Something that is there for no real reason (why do we have to put up with the old War3 engine, if there are better ones nowaday??????) and simply needs time to adjust doesn't make anything more skill reliant or w/e you want to call it.

TLDR: Old != skill
More skilled players however = faster development of 'skill' and higher skill

I firmly believe, if the HoN player base would be as big as the DotA one, competitive HoN would be reach the same level of play in a matter a few months or at the most 1 year or so.

[LUC3NT]

How is Dota complicated? In my opinion its simpler than HoN.

[TheMadman]

Just going to let this sink in.

http://i814.photobucket.com/albums/zz68/TheWeis/dota.jpg

Assuming you aren't pirating

[Skybound]

I actually watch a lot of DotA games still, preferably asian games since I mainly watch tobis and luminous' casts, and I do agree with you on that point, but what I mean is that they argue that DotA takes more skill to play, which I think is an misinterpretion of the clumsy and old War3 engine's handling. And that is just retarded, in my eyes.
So old skies take more 'skill' to ride? Old bycicles take more 'skill' to ride? No, they don't. They're just way more complicated than they need to be. Something that is there for no real reason (why do we have to put up with the old War3 engine, if there are better ones nowaday??????) and simply needs time to adjust doesn't make anything more skill reliant or w/e you want to call it.

TLDR: Old != skill
More skilled players however = faster development of 'skill' and higher skill

I firmly believe, if the HoN player base would be as big as the DotA one, competitive HoN would be reach the same level of play in a matter a few months or at the most 1 year or so.

Well, I agree with you on mostly everything you say, but I really haven't bumped into too many people who look at the 'skill' argument like you do. It's mostly about the player base's skill, I think.

Actually, HoN might require more skill, because it's more fast paced and requires you to be even more on your toes than DotA, so that argument is indeed quite moot.

[Testingrani]

I think what most people mean when mentioning skill is the skill level of players at a high level, i.e. most pro Asian (and some EU) DotA teams are incomparable to the top HoN teams, because they're simply so retardedly much better. If anyone's to argue this, just look at game style and decision making in pro DotA vs. pro HoN.

Pro HoN still has a LONG way to go in terms of competitive skill level, and if you're ever in doubt of that, go watch EHome, DTS, LGD, NV.Cherry, Deity, SB or NWO or almost any other highly recognized DotA team and watch how amazingly few mistakes they make, and how important slight mistakes are, and compare this to the best HoN teams. I think you'll quickly notice that
1) DotA teams make less mistakes
2) When there's been commited a mistake in DotA, the enemy team capitalizes immediately
and
3) DotA teams go through all means necessary to minimalize the room for error.
In HoN, there seems to be more of a "in the moment" attitude amongst the top teams, while in DotA, everything has a deliberate plan. Try to follow both scenes simultaneously, and you'll quickly see how huge the skill gap between the two games still is.


The concerns regarding the lower level of familiarity and efficiency per action in professional HoN is to be expected. Why? DotA teams have been playing the map for years. On the other hand, HoN is relatively new.

As the game matures, one can expect the skill level to increase over time as players get familiarized with the mechanics and intricacies of a given game (this is not limited to the Dota genre - it applies to any game with a moderate to high learning curve)

In reference to gaming history: the professional Starcraft scene didn't really take off until the early 2000s - years after the game was released. Give it time.

[mitha]

Why are you guys arguing?
Both games have their merits. No need to get hot-headed.

Personally i will test dota2, but i couldn't care less who else does.

[swindlemelonzz]

Dota's been around for almost a decade, Hon's been released for about 4 months? Look up some "pro" dota replays from 2002 and see how high skill they are then.

[potoBest]

Dota's been around for almost a decade, Hon's been released for about 4 months? Look up some "pro" dota replays from 2002 and see how high skill they are then.holy **** you're stupid

[DiscardeD]

Personally I play both DotA and HoN, and really, DotA is a much harder game simply because the engine sucks so much more. However, the AVERAGE skill level in DotA is a LOT lower, but that's to be expected. Wc3 is one of the MOST pirated games in the world. You're going to have a LOT or terribads playing the game because it's free. However, I think DotA2 will be a great game. It won't make me QUIT HoN, but I will spend a lot of time between the games. I hope that HoN develops into a VERY different game (like LoL, but not made of complete crap) that spawns a metagame that can compete with DotA. Something that doesn't require a HUGE jump to switch between the two games.

In fact if this happens, what I believe will happen is some INTENSE competition between Valve (Icefrog) and S2 that will make all our lives better. Hopefully it will mean
1. A LOT OF COOL NEW STUFF
2. Constant balance changes
3. Actually LISTENING to the community on a daily/weekly basis
4. Forwarding the genre in general

Really. DotA2 is nothing to fear for HoN lovers. In fact it's something to embrace and enjoy. Some will move and never look back, some will stay and never try the other, and some like me will play both, because I believe both will be great games.

Oh and LoL? Don't even talk about it.

[bloodegg]

Where is DotA? sciensit who know, say dota has left and wont back. icefrog is dead at a murder scene, where the detective asks important questions. here: 1)why is dota gone? a:god says the body - shell for the soul. when icefrog dead, the soul of dota escape and float around BUT you cant see it. 2)wheres the soul a:depends on whos your god. for example if hindu it could be in pig, dog, etc. if christ then its in heaven. simple 3)how do we get the soul out of heaven or the dog? a:valve company has bought the soul of dota and say that steam will be able to do this. but who knows in this age. 4)what new heroes will born when dota is back? a: a wheel that spins called gyroticus and a port of the bear hero from HoN. not spoling abilities tho 5)is there a way to get know, for when dota back? a:yes. but i wont spoil that either. watch ur back

[LUC3NT]

If more than 2% of the HoN Population is as retarded as the past 2 posts then we can conclude retards should not be allowed on the internet.

[Vitrj]

Dota's been around for almost a decade, Hon's been released for about 4 months? Look up some "pro" dota replays from 2002 and see how high skill they are then.
pro dota replays didn't exist in 2002, with or without the quotations.

[Babachoo]

Less kiddies? The only kid I ever befriended on HoN was a huge DotA fan. The statistics of my personal experience do not support your statement. They actually go against it 100%

[kylol]

dota2 or gtfo

Oh ****.

[Cpt_Sleeze]

What's so much better about their damn heroes

Myridon, Zephyr, Electrician, Madman, Forsaken Archer, Arachna, Maliken, Bombadier, Fayde, Pandamonium, Chipper, Puppet Master, Moraxus, Nymphora, Engineer, even Scout.


All heroes that you will not see in Dota 2. And I can honestly say I'd miss quite a few of those.

this^

[Revenant]

DotA > HoN > LoL

[JoshPFriends]

What's so much better about their damn heroes

Myridon, Zephyr, Electrician, Madman, Forsaken Archer, Arachna, Maliken, Bombadier, Fayde, Pandamonium, Chipper, Puppet Master, Moraxus, Nymphora, Engineer, even Scout.


All heroes that you will not see in Dota 2. And I can honestly say I'd miss quite a few of those.
myrmidon - broken piece of ****
zephyr - useless
elec - great, no one picks him though
madman - ^
fa - ranged carry that farms
arachna - ^
maliken - decent hero
bomb - broken piece of ****
chipper - broken piece of ****
moraxus - broken piece of ****
nymphora broken piece of ****
engineer - broken piece of ****
fayde - useless
panda - great hero
puppet - decent
scout - decent

[BASH]

@all the people who believe or even know that DotA2 will/is going to better than HoN or vice versa

Have you ever played DotA2? Have you ever watched ingame footage? Have you ever seen a single screenshots? Have you visited Valve and watched them developing?

No? Then remain calm and don't post anymore.

[kuroteH]

somebody said Skeleton King was a very uncreative hero? Ya, he only has one active skill, but he is a perfect example of a hero who looks boring on paper but played ingame, he's ****ing fun. Having one skill allows you to focus more on your individual actions, last hitting, using clickable items, arcane ring or mana battery right before you die so your rez goes off, timing your insanitarius correctly. GG owned.

[`Monet]

Well ofc Hon is going to be better then Dota game play wise dota was made in 2003 so it's not fair to compare them like that. Also without Dota their probably wouldn't even be a Hon.

[Sheapy]

Arcane Ring on Skeleton King?... The ****?

[Otolia]

Arcane Ring on Skeleton King?... The ****?

For his ulti .... True Story !

[edxs]

pro dota replays didn't exist in 2002, with or without the quotations.

Yeah DotA might be old but Allstars as we know it now didn't really exist until 2005 or later. RoC Dota came in early 2003 and Guinsoo's joke Allstars started late that year. Nobody sane would have even considered it for competition until 5.xx and those versions were still absolutely horrible even by the standards of the time.

[Happyfish]

really waking me up at 7 AM to deal with a troll argument....

Asways revenge at work