HoN Dev Blog: Patch 1.0.21 [Explanation for Changes]

[DivA]

A while ago, Fielding made a very in-depth post regarding how our design team feels about the state of the game, and what our focus and goals will be going forward. For those of you who missed it, check it out at http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/sh...d.php?t=177772 (http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?t=177772). It's definitely worth the read if you're interested in what direction this game's going, and it's even color coded to sparkle.

In line with Fielding's Design Update, we will be maintaining a series of HoN Dev Blog posts in order to give you guys some insight into why we make the changes we make, how they fit into the direction that we want to take HoN, and provide greater transparency so that you guys can know what we're working on. As always, we're looking for your feedback, and we feel that these blog posts will be invaluable in giving you guys the opportunity to do so in the right context.

Patch 1.0.21, in addition to bringing a friendly fish from under the sea to Newerth, introduces a significant change to the mechanics of Wards of Sight and Revelation.

Ward Changes:

* Wards (both of Sight and of Revelation) are purchased in packs of 1 instead of 2
* Each ward costs 100, so the cost per ward is the same

Explanation:
Wards are a hugely important part of HoN, and there is a lot of game dynamics (and intra-team contention) that revolve around wards. They are incredibly effective, and good placement and control of wards will often make the difference between a win and a loss. However, in public and lower level games, they are very infrequently purchased. We've had extensive discussions about how we can get that to change.

We attributed the dearth of wards in public play to the following:
* Wards are extremely costly. Not only do they cost gold, but they also require a player to collect it from the courier and then walk to place them, resulting in lost experience and farm. Sometimes, the gold cost itself can be prohibitive when a team is far behind.
* Wards do not convey an immediate, obvious benefit to the person who places it. Placing a ward does not give a tangible and immediate sense of satisfaction and reward to the person placing it. Its effect is not "poppy," and is therefore often underestimated- until you get ganked, then it's the end of the world and you blame your teammates for not having peppered the map with wards.
* The Free-rider problem. Externalities, public goods, blah blah economics jargon blah. Lowdown is that each member of the team pretty much benefits equally from the wards being up, but the cost is almost never split. In a disorganized team, there is often dispute as to who should be responsible for wards, and to which extent each deputy is liable. This results in people waiting for others to take on the burden of providing the team with the shiny orange public good. When so many are running around with a "I'm going to carry you, stfu and get on my back" mentality, what that actually means is that you'll be staring at a whole bunch of fog on your minimap.

After much deliberation on the subject, and the investigation of all kinds of outlandish and radical ideas, we've settled for now with the most direct, simple, and minor change. Despite the simplicity and scale of the change, however, we're very confident of the positive effect it will have. The lowered "barrier to entry" from 200 to 100 makes it much simpler to grab a ward to go as a side of fries rather than as a main course basket. It makes splitting up the responsibility a lot easier, as the increments at which wards are purchased have decreased. Finally, it opens up greater possibilities of item bundles that include wards, especially at the very beginning of the game with that fabled 603 gold. While it does not solve all of the problems presented above, we're very optimistic of the effects this change will have, and view it at worst as a significant step in the right direction.

As always, we eagerly await your feedback, both in words and through your gameplay. Game HoN!

[Miveal]

Wow


Nice one

[Kisheek]

Very good idea. Splitting the wards will make supports so much easier in pubs to easily and quickly ward and place. :)

[DHeff11]

Obvious and great change!!

[BobSaggot]

the ward change is nice.

why the rampage change?

also why no engi turret :(?

and lastly, pause change? still no revert? when? why?

[Mazinkaiser]

Nice, thanks for the blog :D

New ward change is amazing, gj :)b

[Credge]

Yeah, this is a change I like a lot. I have never been a fan of there being one player who only buys wards. It's boring and counter intuitive. Not only are the weaker mid and late game characters used for buying wards, but they are almost always used for placing those wards.

[DrRepuIsor]

Love the ward changes.

Keep this up S2.

With all the changes, this could help more people who are into the Dota genre jump into HoN.

[davestr1zl]

such a simple change yet just seems so logical and beneficial, good work, makes u wonder why it wasnt always like this lol

[TheoryOfChao]

Well I hope S2 reads this, I thought of this idea while taking a shower and I might as well throw it out.

I played several games today, although there have been cases where people share the cost to ward, in many games people still do not regard warding as a rewarding job.

Why? Warding has almost always been the job of "support heroes." But as a support, warding takes a huge toll on your gold income.
Consider this, a Glacius warding early game means that he is down a certain amount of gold, that could be put towards items that could increase his survivability. For most players, being alive most of the game would be most rewarding, as opposed to constantly waiting to respawn because you lack items that could help you survive a battle.

So how can we fix this?
My proposed idea revolves around the person who bought wards to gain what I would call "assist ward gold." Basically, during the lifetime of the ward that you bought, from the time that it has been laid to the time it expires, any assists or kills that you get gives you a bonus amount of gold. That being said, it counters that idea that wards give the player who bought it no return. I propose that an additional 25 gold be awarded to the person who bought the ward and assist/kill an enemy of the member team.

How would "ward assist gold" work in practice?
For example, Glacius buys 1 set of ward. From the time the ward is laid, any assist or kill that Glacius was a part of grants him an addition 25 gold. Which means that if during the lifetime of the ward that Glacius manages to get at least 4 assists or kills, the addition gold gained pays off the price of the original ward.

Would it stack?
Yes, if Glacius buys 4 sets of wards (totalling 400 gold), and places them all immediately. He would get 4 X 25 gold for every assist or kill.

How would this fix the problem?
People would have an incentive to buy wards now. Especially heroes who are on streaks, so they can get gold.
The problem with the current game is that the support heroes must always let the "carries" take the last hits. However, that means support heroes get a lot less and never ever get more items.
This gives them a chance to still gain money without losing money from lack of items from gold.
This also may give certain carries incentives to ward as they can get increased gold from assisting early game as opposed to ricing for 20 minutes.

[Minty]

While I generally disagree that this will sway the way pubs play games in terms of how many wards will be purchased, I really do like this change, but for different reasons I guess.

[man_guy]

Best part of it, I can now go Glacius, get upgraded courier, a ward, and an HP pot. :D

[Rubidxx]

First page

[Changis]

Personally I like the change, it makes life a bit easier for ward heroes.

As S2 stated above, this is to encourage warding in PUBLIC games.

But I can't help reflecting whether this is necessarily a good change for competitive HON and the "general direction" of the game (I got the impression of S2 trying to make the game faster paced and "gankier").

- easier to get wards out, easier to turtle and prevent ganks
- easier for the "losing team" to turtle, since it's "cheaper" for the already low-income support heroes to ward and avoid clashes. 200 gold is quite alot for a non-farming hero, and maybe that's why you could originally only buy in packs of two. To make it an INVESTMENT in map vision which is so crucial and not something every support hero could get by killing 1 creep and waiting a short moment
- easier to "split" the wards to get wards up faster, and cover larger areas faster, without the delay of transporting the wards with a hero/courier
- often the short safe lane with a farming carry is unwarded at start and more forgiving for the midlaner to gank early, now it's not as costly to just buy one single ward for much more protection (no need for the extra ward redundancy)
- etc etc, I'm sure there are more issues that I have not mentioned, caused by map vision being "cheaper" to get, since 1 ward is so much better than 0 wards, than 2 wards are better than 1 ward, if you're following me here.

Are these concerns justified? Has S2 considered these issues already?

[Hsssh]

- easier to get wards out, easier to turtle and prevent ganks
- easier for the "losing team" to turtle, since it's "cheaper" for the already low-income support heroes to ward and avoid clashes. 200 gold is quite alot for a non-farming hero, and maybe that's why you could originally only buy in packs of two. To make it an INVESTMENT in map vision which is so crucial and not something every support hero could get by killing 1 creep and waiting a short moment
- easier to "split" the wards to get wards up faster, and cover larger areas faster, without the delay of transporting the wards with a hero/courier
- often the short safe lane with a farming carry is unwarded at start and more forgiving for the midlaner to gank early, now it's not as costly to just buy one single ward for much more protection (no need for the extra ward redundancy)
- etc etc, I'm sure there are more issues that I have not mentioned, caused by map vision being "cheaper" to get, since 1 ward is so much better than 0 wards, than 2 wards are better than 1 ward, if you're following me here.

As i understand counter wards are cheaper too,

[Changis]

As i understand counter wards are cheaper too,

Yeah I know, but counter-warders are often one step behind the warders... I think this has quite an impact in practice.

[Asator]

I was the support player last game and the new ward mechanism allowed me to place wards constantly throughout the game. We could see the enemies' gank coming, countered it and won. :)

I like it.

/edit: I bought 14 wards that game :O

[Castiel]

100g wards are best change ih HoN after they reduces volume of chipper walking sounds.

This is so awesome, now i have wards in almost every game i play.

[Jestai]

Sweet change.

Next step: If i carry my mate's wards, i want them to merge with mine. Spliting wards' buying cost is a good thing an a team effort, but you just can't spare an extra inventory slot for that as a support...

Next next step: being able to disassemble wards from your inventory, so you can give one ward to someone and keep the rest.

[Fleder]

Next next step: being able to disassemble wards from your inventory, so you can give one ward to someone and keep the rest.

QFT!

[IntErlIdEr]

I think TheoryOfChao is onto something; it's more often than not that wards extensively assist in killing - and avoiding death. If it is assisting, then why aren't we rewarded a gold bounty just as a person who gets one physical attack in or is in range?

I'd suggest that the beta people look into this possibility and test it to see how it affects the game. Ultimately, it'd mean even more gold for support players, which together with the assist gold would end up getting even more satisfaction over assisting their team mates.

My little contribution would be that if someone goes through a ward, he'd be "tagged" for a minute. During this period, getting him killed would mean a small extra bounty to the ward owner/buyer (I think buyer would be more appropriate to avoid carries placing wards bought by their support in order to be fed even more gold).

~IntEr

[MeVe]

****ing epic change, now we have to click 2 times!

My finger is broking way faster naow!

[ZyV]

Good Job.

The best part of this is we can buy counter ward one by one.

This is A W E S O M E .

[Blaky039]

This is the best thing that could happen to HoN!

Actually there are VERY few games in which you won't have at least one ward up in a rune spot, thus ensuring you get each rune that spawns.

Some heroes can get better starting items without having to lane with just a tango and a mana pot...

For example, wildsoul usually gets hatchet and shield, but now you can go :wild::LoggersHatchet::WardOfSight::IronBuckler: and ward the rune spot so you can jungle safer.

[Blaky039]

****ing epic change, now we have to click 2 times!

My finger is broking way faster naow!

What about using hotkeys?!? xD

[HeavySoul]

Sweet change.

Next step: If i carry my mate's wards, i want them to merge with mine. Spliting wards' buying cost is a good thing an a team effort, but you just can't spare an extra inventory slot for that as a support...

Next next step: being able to disassemble wards from your inventory, so you can give one ward to someone and keep the rest.

Place them on the ground and then pick them up again to consolidate into one stack. This also works for wards originally purchased into your Stash.

:)

[TheJohns]

100g wards are indeed a godsend.

- It allows for more flexible starting items
- Anyone, carries or support, can easily get wards
- You'll likely have the money for it even after dying

Great changes, S2.

[Pellikan]

6.9 wards per game i have gotten.
THANK YOU S2 FOR THE BEST UPDATE EVER!

EDIT: On the bad thing now i get 2 normal wards + 1 counter ward at start xD

[E_Honda`]

Worked wonders. I love to play solo mid and would get frustrated when a side lane support would not ward up a rune spot in the beginning and throughout the game. With this change I have no problem spending 100 of my own gold and still having sufficient starting items to solo mid and assure I can ward a rune spot.

I think this will make it easier for everyone to help ward when possible.

[NullDragon]

I think TheoryOfChao is onto something; it's more often than not that wards extensively assist in killing - and avoiding death. If it is assisting, then why aren't we rewarded a gold bounty just as a person who gets one physical attack in or is in range?

I'd suggest that the beta people look into this possibility and test it to see how it affects the game. Ultimately, it'd mean even more gold for support players, which together with the assist gold would end up getting even more satisfaction over assisting their team mates.

My little contribution would be that if someone goes through a ward, he'd be "tagged" for a minute. During this period, getting him killed would mean a small extra bounty to the ward owner/buyer (I think buyer would be more appropriate to avoid carries placing wards bought by their support in order to be fed even more gold).

~IntEr

I thought about that too. Buyer is better. Although I'm somewhat unsure about extra gold.

I thought about a tagged enemy running through a ward giving the person who bought the wards an assist if they die. Encourages using wards to gank, and gives the support a bit more cash.

[Pariah]

I thought about that too. Buyer is better. Although I'm somewhat unsure about extra gold.

I thought about a tagged enemy running through a ward giving the person who bought the wards an assist if they die. Encourages using wards to gank, and gives the support a bit more cash.

I like the idea because it increases gold in game ( faster game like HoN wants) and there is really no other negative result of having more vision in a faster game unless Im missing something. Just make it where the sight cant overlap so people arent getting 100 g + assit gold lol.

[Dordanov]

Well I hope S2 reads this, I thought of this idea while taking a shower and I might as well throw it out.

I played several games today, although there have been cases where people share the cost to ward, in many games people still do not regard warding as a rewarding job.

Why? Warding has almost always been the job of "support heroes." But as a support, warding takes a huge toll on your gold income.
Consider this, a Glacius warding early game means that he is down a certain amount of gold, that could be put towards items that could increase his survivability. For most players, being alive most of the game would be most rewarding, as opposed to constantly waiting to respawn because you lack items that could help you survive a battle.

So how can we fix this?
My proposed idea revolves around the person who bought wards to gain what I would call "assist ward gold." Basically, during the lifetime of the ward that you bought, from the time that it has been laid to the time it expires, any assists or kills that you get gives you a bonus amount of gold. That being said, it counters that idea that wards give the player who bought it no return. I propose that an additional 25 gold be awarded to the person who bought the ward and assist/kill an enemy of the member team.

How would "ward assist gold" work in practice?
For example, Glacius buys 1 set of ward. From the time the ward is laid, any assist or kill that Glacius was a part of grants him an addition 25 gold. Which means that if during the lifetime of the ward that Glacius manages to get at least 4 assists or kills, the addition gold gained pays off the price of the original ward.

Would it stack?
Yes, if Glacius buys 4 sets of wards (totalling 400 gold), and places them all immediately. He would get 4 X 25 gold for every assist or kill.

How would this fix the problem?
People would have an incentive to buy wards now. Especially heroes who are on streaks, so they can get gold.
The problem with the current game is that the support heroes must always let the "carries" take the last hits. However, that means support heroes get a lot less and never ever get more items.
This gives them a chance to still gain money without losing money from lack of items from gold.
This also may give certain carries incentives to ward as they can get increased gold from assisting early game as opposed to ricing for 20 minutes.

I like this idea, it will give a little incentive to buying wards in pubs for sure. It might need some number tweaking here and there, but the basics seem like a pretty nice solution.

Maybe there could even be an option to add a small experience bonus on assists (also 25 or so?) for heroes that placed wards, or just some experience gain for placing a ward. You place a ward -> ding 100 exp or something of the sort.

It will give a little of the lost experience back to support they lost when leaving the lane to ward. Ofcourse number may need to be tweaked, but small bonuses like these might help the struggling support for late game, and could help getting people to ward in pub games.

Ofcourse I realise that support having few gold and levels is part of the game now, but it doesn't mean it can't / shouldn't be changed a bit in their favor.

[Kurce]

I give a HUGE +1 to the wards change. I play a nice chunk of support heroes and I no longer feel continually burdened by buying wards now. I really don't understand how the change actually affected the game, but the game does feel much more manageable now when it comes to warding.

[Flem100]

I support the ward change

[YUNGBASEDGOD]

"the Dearth of wards in public games"?

[Kenpachi1337]

love the ward change and how S2 feels free to change the DotA standard to something better. KEEP IT UP

[inDe_eD]

"the Dearth of wards in public games"?facepalm.jpg

Great change, simple yet effective. Makes you wonder why it wasn't like this to begin with.

[evotech]

wards should be free, counterwards should cost the same, also, teams should start with a courier.

This will just help the public games, making them more enjoyable, while not affecting pro games at all. as most money are being spent on not the warding, but the counterwarding and placing the wards more secret and hidden makes more of fa difference then the gold it costs to get the ward up.

[WhiTdeMoN]

wards should be free, counterwards should cost the same, also, teams should start with a courier.

This will just help the public games, making them more enjoyable, while not affecting pro games at all. as most money are being spent on not the warding, but the counterwarding and placing the wards more secret and hidden makes more of fa difference then the gold it costs to get the ward up.


/signed

[evotech]

Also, the game will be more enjoyable for support heroes i guess, as they can buy more then striders and a powersupply

[CrazyAce]

wards should be free, counterwards should cost the same, also, teams should start with a courier.

This will just help the public games, making them more enjoyable, while not affecting pro games at all. as most money are being spent on not the warding, but the counterwarding and placing the wards more secret and hidden makes more of fa difference then the gold it costs to get the ward up.Agreed. This would make pub games so much better.

Just to be clear: You mean counterwards should still cost (100g), right?

[MANTOWN]

Loving the changes

[Jeroz]

why not just implement that to the CM?

[Facegank]

Did Diva just applied Michael Porter's theory to Hon??

[Pellikan]

Also, the game will be more enjoyable for support heroes i guess, as they can buy more then striders and a powersupply

If i ever got a power supply i would be happy, bracer stack at the best.

[evotech]

Yeah, ment manabattery :P

[B1oX]

Now you just need to make a 100g daddy monkey, and a 100g mommy monkey. They have no inventory, but when you bring them close enough together they have monkey sex and make a baby monkey courier.

[Pettrov]

didnt know where to make this question, but..

i have non-shiled account and is it anyway to buy a shielded on?
very exited about the 2.0!!

[B1oX]

Now you just need to make a 100g daddy monkey, and a 100g mommy monkey. They have no inventory, but when you bring them close enough together they have monkey sex and make a baby monkey courier.

bump please implement!!

[Q_efx]

Best change ever!

[mejobloggs]

Well I hope S2 reads this, I thought of this idea while taking a shower and I might as well throw it out.

I played several games today, although there have been cases where people share the cost to ward, in many games people still do not regard warding as a rewarding job.

Why? Warding has almost always been the job of "support heroes." But as a support, warding takes a huge toll on your gold income.
Consider this, a Glacius warding early game means that he is down a certain amount of gold, that could be put towards items that could increase his survivability. For most players, being alive most of the game would be most rewarding, as opposed to constantly waiting to respawn because you lack items that could help you survive a battle.

So how can we fix this?
My proposed idea revolves around the person who bought wards to gain what I would call "assist ward gold." Basically, during the lifetime of the ward that you bought, from the time that it has been laid to the time it expires, any assists or kills that you get gives you a bonus amount of gold. That being said, it counters that idea that wards give the player who bought it no return. I propose that an additional 25 gold be awarded to the person who bought the ward and assist/kill an enemy of the member team.

How would "ward assist gold" work in practice?
For example, Glacius buys 1 set of ward. From the time the ward is laid, any assist or kill that Glacius was a part of grants him an addition 25 gold. Which means that if during the lifetime of the ward that Glacius manages to get at least 4 assists or kills, the addition gold gained pays off the price of the original ward.

Would it stack?
Yes, if Glacius buys 4 sets of wards (totalling 400 gold), and places them all immediately. He would get 4 X 25 gold for every assist or kill.

How would this fix the problem?
People would have an incentive to buy wards now. Especially heroes who are on streaks, so they can get gold.
The problem with the current game is that the support heroes must always let the "carries" take the last hits. However, that means support heroes get a lot less and never ever get more items.
This gives them a chance to still gain money without losing money from lack of items from gold.
This also may give certain carries incentives to ward as they can get increased gold from assisting early game as opposed to ricing for 20 minutes.


Wow pretty cool idea imo. Dunno if it would work / balance etc but certainly sounds good

[Pudgeinabowl]

Next next step: being able to disassemble wards from your inventory, so you can give one ward to someone and keep the rest.

Would suggest just being able to do that with any stacked item.