ThunderBrand (Mindbrand reworked)

[GauntElakor]

http://i52.tinypic.com/fawmzc.jpg
http://i56.tinypic.com/vy33gx.jpg
Original pic - Linky (http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/icons-541/btnhauntedswordicon-180022/?prev=r%3D20%26page%3D3)



We have Icebrand for STR heroes.
We have Firebrand for AGI heroes.
I want Thunderbrand for INT heroes.

Thunderbrand is a simple item, along the lines of the previous brands:
+16 INT
+20 Cast speed
-7% Cooldown

It requires (obviously) Apprentices Robe and Neophytes Book in addition to a recipe for 750g

Now the interesting things start:
Icebrand and Firebrand gives Frostburn.
Icebrand and Thunderbrand gives Ligthningfreeze.
Firebrand and Thunderbrand gives Firezapp.
Icebrand, Firebrand, Thunderbrand and Recipe(400g?) gives Triforce (by your powers combined, I am...)
(If you have all three brands in some combination then buy the recipe, they fuse into Triforce, This happens no matter what combination you buy the "Brands" in)

Now for the stats of these combining weapons:
Frostburn
16 Agility
16 Strength
20 Attack Speed
15 Damage
14% Move Speed
Chilled

Ligthningfreeze
16 Intelegence
16 Strength
15 Damage
30 Cast Speed
-10% Cooldown
Chilled

Firezapp
16 Agility
16 Intelegence
30 Cast Speed
-10% Cooldown
14% Move Speed
20 Attack Speed

Triforce (OPTIONAL)
16 Agility
16 Strength
16 Intelligence
20 Damage
25 Attack Speed
17% Move Speed
40 Cast Speed
-15% Cooldown
Chilled(Stronger)

As you can see the new Thunderbrand follows the same pattern from the previous brands and mix perfectly with the new brands.
This also gives INT heroes a reason to think about these items.
Frostburn is also slightly boosted with 5 more damage.

As you know:
Icebrand goes together with Blessed Orb and Glowstone to make Frostwolf Skull.
Firebrand goes together with Blessed Orb to make Geometres Bane.
Therefore Thunderbrand should also make another item, Sands of Time was created with that purpose.

Sands of Time:(generic name)
+16 INT
+200 HP
+300 MP
+20 Cast speed
-10% Cool Down
Slows down EVERYTHING within y range of the hero by x% for >n seconds. May be upgradable z times for better slow, longer duration or longer range. Area moves with the hero.
This item would be made of Thunderbrand and Glowstone with a recipe costing some 500-1000 gold

Notes:
- Not to implement Triforce so people have to specialize, and not get everything in a single item.
- Stopwatch slows heroes/creeps/towers, it effects MS/AS/CS/regen... Everything

Either you like it or you don't, tell me why.
Numbers are not set in stone yet so balancing is still an issue.

[@] Change log [@]
Added notes about Geometers Bane, Frostwolf Skull and Harkons Blade (08.47 - 27.08.10)
Added "OR -X Magic Armor" on all items including Mindbrand (09.03 - 27.08.10)
Removed "OR -X mana cost to spells" on all items including Mindbrand (13.22 - 31.08.10)
Triforce changed name to Burning Ming of Ice (13.41 - 31.08.10)
Fixed some type errors (15.01 - 07.09.10)
Added Stopwatch (15.08 - 07.09.10)
Balanced Magic Armour reduction on all items including Mindbrand (15.18 - 07.09.10)
Added Notes section (15.25 - 07.09.10)
Removed everything concerning Magic Attacks from all items containing Mindbrand (11.57 - 14.09.10)
Removed Harkons blade from the concept (13.36 - 19.09.10)
Fixed some typos (12.59 - 09.10.10)
Made "Burning Mind of Ice" optional (17.34 - 17.10.10)
Made new thread named Arcanebrand (18.24 - 02.11.10)
Changed name of Burning Mind of Ice to Combined Brand (18.25 - 02.11.10)
Added recipe for Combined Brand (18.26 - 02.11.10)
Reduced Cooldown for all items and fixed some typos (12.56 - 03.11.10)
Changed name from Combined Brand to Triforce (10.46 - 08.11.10)
Reduced recipe cost for Triforce (10.47 - 08.11.10)
Boosted Stopwatch from 20 INT to 26 INT (10.47 - 08.11.10)
Changed Stopwatch (09.58 - 17.11.10)
Renamed Stopwatch to Sands of Time (08.38 - 25.11.10)
Fixed typo (21.03 - 14.02.11)
Added optional effect for Sands of Time (21.07 - 14.02.11)
Changed name from Archanebrand to Thunderbrand (18.56 - 06.04.11)
Removed an incarnation of the effects on Sands of Time (18.57 - 06.04.11)

Original Sands of Time:

Sands of Time:(generic name)
+26 INT
+200 HP
+300 MP
+40 Cast speed
-20% Cool Down
This item would be made of Mindbrand and Glowstone with a recipe costing some 500-1000 gold

Removed effect
(1) Slows down EVERYTHING on the map except your hero by x% for n seconds. May be upgradable z times for better slow or longer duration.

Original Thread:
Mindbrand (http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?t=158242)

[Brazier]

Good idea but...

I hope you realize how incredibly overtuned the stats are. 20% cooldown reduction is quite noticable. Behemoths heart, a 5500g item only gives 10% reduction and some more health than what you're proposing.

You're giving stats comparable to a Sac Stone with the core benefit Int heroes get from a Behe's heart. It would allow some heroes to practically become carries due to insanely fast cooldown on spells. i.e. :wret::pyro::bubb:and let's not forget everybodies favorite spammer, :thun:. Healing supports become semi-tanky while getting even faster healing power, see :accu::vood::nymp::deme:.

Tone down the cooldown reduction and perhaps a little on the stats, the cast speed can stay.

[GauntElakor]

I have tough about that, but this is just an idea, balancing will come with time (and specially from S2)
But Il tone it down a bit.

[InkSpots]

Yes, more INT orientated + lowering cooldown items seem like a cool idea.

[CSDragon]

I T'd up since I loved mindbrand, but I got to ask, why are you remaking it?

[CSDragon]

Good idea but...

I hope you realize how incredibly overtuned the stats are. 20% cooldown reduction is quite noticable. Behemoths heart, a 5500g item only gives 10% reduction and some more health than what you're proposing.

You're giving stats comparable to a Sac Stone with the core benefit Int heroes get from a Behe's heart. It would allow some heroes to practically become carries due to insanely fast cooldown on spells. i.e. :wret::pyro::bubb:and let's not forget everybodies favorite spammer, :thun:. Healing supports become semi-tanky while getting even faster healing power, see :accu::vood::nymp::deme:.

Tone down the cooldown reduction and perhaps a little on the stats, the cast speed can stay.


You forget that this is a 6600g (8100g if he keeps the 1500g recipe charge) item. it can be more powerful then sacstone or behemoth's heart at that price.

Edit: Also: OP, the 1500 recipe on Burning Mind of Ice is outrageous. For 6600g, I think it's fine as is. 8100g is just outlandish.


Double Edit: Stopwatch is very weak right now. Among other things, it should be minimum +26 int, +10 str +10 agi, since that's the sum of its parts. In addition, its very expensive, almost as expensive as BMoI without the recipe, and is much weaker, only giving an extra 5% as compensation.

My suggestion: Either take glowstone out and make it +26 int, +10 str +10 agi +40 cast speed -20% cooldowns, or leave it as it is, but make it +26 int, +10 str +10 agi +200 HP +200 MP +40 cast speed -25%

[GauntElakor]

@CSDragon: The poll was not appropriate for the popular section.
Well, a 1.5k recipe was maybe ridiculous, 400 maybe to put it at a total of 7k, just to make it a bit more "rare"
Stopwatch does not contain Blessed Orb, so I dont know where the STR and AGI would come from, but 26 INT was not unreasonable.

[GauntElakor]

Im the only one here listening to the bumping noise?

[Disco_Bison]

I love it just like I did before. However, I still have some issues with the Stopwatch one. It feels like the effect should be more interesting. Also, I'm not sure Arcanebrand is a better name. It's closer to the elemental nature of fire and ice, but is a bit wordy and doesn't fit in the theme as well. I think I would change it to something else. I'll post when I have an idea.

It's sort of a hard thing to place exactly; fire and ice are already such polar opposites, I don't know what would fit for intelligence that wouldnt feel unnatural.

I'd really like to hear what you think of my hero Arika, I've changed her a lot recently.

[GauntElakor]

Well, yes. The stopwatch is now a bit more epic (a lot actually).

On the name part, I have no idea what to really call it, naming never were my strong side.

Arika was pretty good btw :)

[Token]

good idea, would need balancing but nice

[CesoMark]

well i didnt vote yet because im not sure if hon needs this item right now.
the idea of lowering cooldown is nice, but i seriously cant imagine any hero that would build a "triforce". because nukers like thunderbringer dont need the chill effekt from icebrand or the movement speed from firebrand.. they would prefer something like bloodstone..
also int carries would not buy this because i mean cmon, does puppet master really need lower cooldowns? and would this be more effective then something like whispering helm/geos or charged hammer or whatever...
but i still love stopwatch, this could be very interesting on its own but firemagic, arcanebrand and triforce arent very useful imo

[Gumbie]

well i didnt vote yet because im not sure if hon needs this item right now.
the idea of lowering cooldown is nice, but i seriously cant imagine any hero that would build a "triforce". because nukers like thunderbringer dont need the chill effekt from icebrand or the movement speed from firebrand.. they would prefer something like bloodstone..
also int carries would not buy this because i mean cmon, does puppet master really need lower cooldowns? and would this be more effective then something like whispering helm/geos or charged hammer or whatever...
but i still love stopwatch, this could be very interesting on its own but firemagic, arcanebrand and triforce arent very useful imo

There would be situations where Triforce would be a good item... Just like there are situations for Mock, Symbol of Rage, Codex etc.

[Voted Yes]

[Kapura]

why add this? To eliminate support? Any int hero who would normally have been support would become a carry, and that is so bad for the metagame I don't even want to think about it. We have enough carries; if you want items for int heroes/casters, think of support items.

[GauntElakor]

Well, support heroes would still be support heroes, if an INT would get this it would be late game where their supporting most likely would be unnoticeable and carries take over the game, it just gives INTs a longer effect time. Also, this strengthens INTs earlier in the game therefore slightly reducing the effect of carries.

I also dont see where this makes INTs carries on par with AGI carries or even STR carries, it reduces cool down and boosts cast speed, there is no carrying in that.

[Jofarin]

I like the idea, but stopwatch is a shitty name. Better take "sands of time" if you wanna steal or "timeshard" or something.


why add this? To eliminate support? Any int hero who would normally have been support would become a carry, and that is so bad for the metagame I don't even want to think about it. We have enough carries; if you want items for int heroes/casters, think of support items.
Support can't be eliminated. You only have a fixed amount of exp and money to give. If you concentrate a good amount of it in one to two persons they become carries having a huge impact on the game. I support the idea to have nearly every hero beeing able to fill the carry role because that adds more divesity. You still can only have 1-2 people playing carry.

[_Scars_]

i really like the idea of a int focussed item like this but i agree the name must change like something elemental, like earth or wind.

this must come into HoN

[Patchurii]

Suggestion: When combined with at least icebrand + arcanebrand (+ firebrand), should apply the slow on single target spells. Just a suggestion,

T-UP. For great justice!

[Hatebane]

This would make Frostbrand more appealing to Demented early game, and also give him more of a presence than just stormcloud and hide. T-up.

[JarJar]

15% reduction in CD's is pretty high. Besides that everything looks pretty solid. Maybe you should change Stopwatch's ability to an AoE stun? Maybe even something like Succubus' Mesmerize would be great, considering there aren't that many disable items in HoN.

[GauntElakor]

@Angel_of_sol: Well, That is a posibility, but I dont think it fits that good with the other brands and im not sure how it will be balanced or work with other single target slows.

@JarJar: 15% might be a bit, but when people say OP here i point them to the cost. With Sands of Time im thinking more about a global chronosphere, just not as powerfull.

[Ellman]

would be really fun to try this on an int carry.

[Grackle]

I like the idea of the intelligence sword, but the lowered cooldown seems too good. Str and agi can get it now, and for cheaper than a behe heart? Also, this item would be straight disgusting on low mana tank-nukers like blacksmith and behemoth. Finally, the entire "global chronosphere" thing seems a little half-baked.

I'd suggest replacing the reduced cooldown and Tri-sword effect with either a new mechanic to really try and push the possibilities, or an under-represented and interesting mechanic - for example, slowing enemy cast speeds, currently only on Magebane's blink aura.

Suggestions mostly off the top of my head:
Befuddle - Aura that slows enemy cast speed.
Hex - Enemy spells have a chance to fail. Not cancelled like Nullstone, just fail and require re-casting, maybe putting them on a 1 or 2 second cooldown. Could be a single target activated ability on Arcanebrand (since neither of the other swords are active) and gain an aura component on the Tri-Sword.
Brain Drain - Mana Drain aura. Not really new - like Soul Reaper's aura (ie slow and non-restoring, unlike Witch Slayer's), but for mana. Could drain it to the hero wielding Arcanebrand if underwhelming on its own.
Stacked Cooldowns - Active ability, probably with a mana cost between 50-100, causes your next spell to use mana and go on cooldown normally, but the spell doesn't actually cast and instead gains a "charge" lasting 30 seconds. Once off cooldown, the next time you use that spell it will lose the charge and its cooldown will be instantly refreshed. This is obviously STUPID GOOD on most spells, so the cooldown should probably be 30+. This would probably have to replace the "global chronosphere" and how this interacts with Refresher Orb and/or ults would also have to be considered as 4-6 ults is simply non-permissible.
ESP - Active ability. Gives sight of a small area (maybe 700 AoE with a 3500 range) for 1 second. Might have to only give sight to the hero who used it instead of whole team. 30+ Cooldown.
Alternative ESP - Aura that reveals any non-visible enemy hero within a 1500 radius for 1 second if they cast a spell (cancels fog of war and KotF's invis). Enemies within aura range who cast in sight of the hero wielding Arcanebrand are confused for 1 second (like Maliken's ult).

TL;DR - I like the idea, but replace cooldown and Triplesword superspell with weirder abilities.

[GauntElakor]

Well. Al tough I do like your ideas, Arcanebrand is, and always will be, a brand. That means simple effects like the previous brands, Brands never had (and prolly never will have) activated effects, so I dont think so.
Hex and Befuddle is my favs there, but remember than Stopwatch does slow castspeed (EVERYTHING) on things on the map, and I would really like the ability to slow down time (maybe even gold income and the day/night time :D)

And the Stopwatch is not the focus of this thread, but it was suggested that Archanebrand also makes another item like the other brands(in Mindbrand thread)

[t3mpoo]

k GO!!!!

[WigglyFace]

For Stopwatch, to kind of meet the themes of the other uberbrand items (FW has attack modifier, good for STR heroes that hit like trucks, GB has debuff removal/pseudo evasion, good for agi heroes that need to escape if teamfights go badly) you should make it something that triggers on spell casting, to make it good for int nukers that need to dish out all of their spells before the enemy nuker can us theirs. Something like, each hero you hit with a spell has their cast times increased by 50% on the next spell they cast, or whenever you cast you steal mana from target(s) you hit (aside: why the F haven't we seen legit Diablo style mana steal in Hon/DotA), or whenever you cast you interrupt (0.5 second silence) heroes nearby.

just some suggestions. voted yes for concept, not sure what i think about the details though.

[Robot]

icebrand = frostwoulf skull
firebrand = geo
arcanebrand = ?

[GauntElakor]

Archanebrand => Stopwatch

@Wiggly: Stopwatch does enable ints to get off their nukes faster atm, as it slows down everything else.

[Teboga]

I like the idea very much, this items should really be implemented. But the numbers have to ba changed a bit, the cooldown reduction is too big and the Sands of Time effect is too IMBA. Imagine 4 Ints on the game spammig a global slow, it would turn the game into a slow motion.

Also, why Sands of Time uses a Glowstone instead of a Blessed Orb? This is what it should be, IMHO:

Sands of Time:
Arcanebrand + Blessed Orb + Recipe (700g)
+26 INT
+10 STR
+10 AGI
+20 Cast speed
-10% Cool Down
On use: Drains 300 mana from target, cooldown 45sec.

[GauntElakor]

Glowstone cause Frostwolf use orb and stone, and geo use orb :3

Also, I dont want to change Stopwatch atm cause if you have triforce, geo, frostwolf and watch, then use the activated abilities of first watch then instantly geo, you get the same result as if you did this: X/0

[xoL]

awesome voted yes

[biggy_Style]

Really good idea if you think that yeah str frost agi firebrand yeah awesome idea!

[stx]

you sir have my vote

[Doom_Whale]

upon use of a single target spell? half the mana cost is drained from the target?
+a charge of -5% cast time max of 3 charges? charge = 50 mana drained

[Xkitty]

Epic concept, 'nough said.

[GauntElakor]

@Doom_Whale: There are no charges in the other brands, also, we have another item to steal mana (escapes my mind atm)

[Nuveno]

s item look fantastic to me, but this remember me to an LoL item (dont remeber the name, i played LoL just for a month)

btw, nice item, you got my vote

[FranticFrog]

Would have totally voted Yes on just the "Sands of Time" concept. (I wont discuss the numbers here)
The fact I don't like is the overuse of the "Chilled" Orb Effect as well as the Triforce item, which gives an equal amount of agility, strength and intelligence, just as Frostwulfs Skull does. I see no use in creating a struggle between Frostwulfs and Arcanebrand, being extremely similar and therefore extremely hard to balance

[GauntElakor]

As I see, the brands are "stacking". If you have Icebrand you get the chilled effect. no matter how many other brands you have. Archanebrand does not conflict with Frostwulfs. Triforce might, but then all items giving hp conflicts with each other. There is no problem with more items slowing things. The main thing about Triforce is it will be a rare, expensive, late game item that adds a bit of everything.

[Ryper7]

definately gets my vote, great idea, should be implemented, seems logical. cmon S2, you know this needs to be done

[Freestyler`]

I think that when activated, stopwatch should slow down the user attack and movement speed and improve cast speed for duration of the item (or leave at initial value)

[GauntElakor]

The point of stopwatch is to get a "matrix" like event where the activating hero can react a lot faster to everything since everything is moving slower. Someone throws out this and they will be dodging hooks and arrows, canceling spells with cast time and all that stuff.

[OJPhoenix]

This is so awesome

btw you say this at one point:
"As you can see the new Mindbrand follows the same pattern from the previous brands and mix perfectly with the new brands."
what is this mindbrand you speak of?

speaking of mind though I reckon Arcanebrand and Icebrand should totally be called Brainfreeze :D

should totally call the Sands of Time ability "Timewarp" hehe. Sounds like a global btw, that might be a bit much, have it either target area or around the hero, can't decide which would be better, around hero makes it even more different from chronosphere

also:
http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/8232/triforcehon.png
lol

[Decency]

If you had a decent name for these items it would probably be more successful. Right now, though, it sounds like something a 10 year old would come up with.

[squall3904]

To answer a previous question mindbrand was the original arcanebrand. Also decency why does it matter what the name is right now if it gets implemented that is all that is trying to be accomplished and if you have a better name let's hear it. Sorry for the rant but people who just complain without any form of helping criticism are annoying. However great item hope it makes it to the game love the concept of a good int carry item.

[OJPhoenix]

gotta agree with you there, just because it doesn't have the polish of a perfectly implementable item doesn't mean you should bag it

I really think this item is a fantastic idea, didn't really elaborate on this much than calling it awesome but the idea of having a trio of items around the 3 main stats is brilliant, the potential ideas are just as good as well, i can think of a few times where i've wished for an item with a good stat combination that isn't str & agi, and another option for all stats

[GauntElakor]

@Decency: I am fully aware of the problem, but I suck at making names so this is as good as I can get it. If someone else has good ideas I would not mind to change them tough.

@OJPhoenix: You might be right,
And yes, Mindbrand was the old thread, but the name did not fit with the element theme, so I changed it.

[Decency]

I'm not sure why you're associating it with intellect/magic at all.

Fire = Agility?
Ice = Strength?

...just pick an element.

Aether/Ether would work I suppose, not much better though since it's so esoteric.

[OJPhoenix]

Decency might have a point... hey good old Final Fantasy Black Mage trio Fire, Blizzard and Thunder :P
Thunderbrand / Stormbrand into Firestorm and Thunderhail ?

oh that wouldn't work with your Sands of Time item ability... >_<

I must admit though, Lightning / Thunder could be a neat third element to go with the ones we've got

[MimicU]

This mayjust come off as a pointless rant, but that is besides the point. I just want to say that altough i find this a good idea... I would rather have this replace spellshards. Spellshards have just gotten on my nerves, forcing almost all people in a game with mainly magic users to focus more money into shamans that they could be otherwise speding. Stopwatch is pretty cool, but on a carry it would make them almost instant win. It sure as hell cant be global, i think it should be someting like a mix between chronos ult and frostfield. (as in the area of effect of frostfield going out from your hero and the potential team f-up of chrono's ult.

[Swaggler]

I actually really like the idea. Dunno about all the numbers and the final item just seems like a Frostfield Plate but still I like the Arcanebrand idea and combining with Ice/Fire-brand! T-U

[Sephyx]

/signed
This is plain awesome, I like the idea of Arcanebrand.
Only the 20% cd redux is a bit too much, I think reducing it to 10% is much more realistic yet still good.

10/10

Edit, just an alternative suggestion for the name arcanebrand, it might give you new ideas:
Mesmerblade
Phantasmal blade
Distortion blade

[BiggDogg]

I believe an item like this could be realistic, however I do not believe that it should be part of the "brand" family. As realistically, 7% cd reduction and 20 cast speed is a big deal! Not to mention 16 int. For only 2200, it would be a core item for a LOT of heroes, not to mention incredibly OP.

Another main reason why this would be unrealistic, you don't stop at 1 item, you then continue to mix it like geo fws sny etc. That is a HUGE step.

I would picture an item like this at 3000ish at least.

[MaXi]

numbers need some twinking, but idea is very good :) it should be implemented to boost casters in late game :)

[GauntElakor]

Thanks all for your responses. The name has been changed and Sands of Time is no longer global.

I see several people comparing either Triforce or SoT with Frostwolf and Frostplate. Neither are similar or comparable, and if they are, so are lots of other items in the game.

[Radiohead]

Please, implement it NOW

[FuzzyChaos]

I like it... also Thuderbrand + :Thunderclaw:Thundrclaw + recipe = Thunders Might(name can be changed)
get the benfit of both items plus have a chance to chain lightning on spell cast

[PowidL]

Y good idea, which has allready been realized in some warcraft 3 dota ripoff.
But i think the current size for cooldownreduce is too high. I'd lower them.

[Skyve]

Considering the way the other two items work, I'd rather give the Thunderbrand an ability that increases attackspeed or attackdamage (maybe some bonus magic damage?) after casting a spell - because the other two items also benefit attacking, and nothing else. The way it is now, Triforce would probably never be gotten over FWS/Geo's Bane on any hero, which IMO is sad, because it could be a good item.

[M1190]

Am I only one, who sees the TRINITY FORCE?

[GauntElakor]

@FuzzyChaos: Exelent idea, if S2 likes it, it might happen

@PowidL: 7% is not that much, imo it is balanced

@Skyve: Firebrand increase mobility and attack speed, does nothing for actualy attacks, it adds what most agi/carries need. Icebrand gives HP and a slow, it DOES something for actual attacks, it gives STR/carries what they need. Thunderbrand improves spellcasting and mana, does nothing for actual attacks, it adds what most INT/carries need.

Brands are aparently carry items

[Shide]

Sands of Time cant slow EVERYTHING because if you block team help, you must not be freeze.
Im agree with with Thunderbrand but no with Sands of Time

[Jezu]

We need an item which gives +cast speed.
I mean, WTB < 1 sec cast time on SS' ulti

[Candylicious]

I love the Thunderbrand idea :D Though, I think it would be really nice, if Thunderbrand had a passive mana steal instead of the reduced cooldown. This would also make the idea more "original", since there is no item that steals mana. (Only Nullfire Blade that burns mana).

So make it something like this:
+ 16 intelligence
+ 20 cast speed
+ 3% mana steal

- On attack, steals 3% af the targets current mana.

[GauntElakor]

why would a caster auto attack oponents?
also, 3% mana steal is not worth it, stealing from an enemy INT is useless as they will regenerate it, stealing 3% from an STR oponent is to little to make a differense. Also, those who get this items wont need to steal mana.

[Candylicious]

why would a caster auto attack oponents?
also, 3% mana steal is not worth it, stealing from an enemy INT is useless as they will regenerate it, stealing 3% from an STR oponent is to little to make a differense. Also, those who get this items wont need to steal mana.
Well, there are INT semicarries, which will need both their autoattack and spells (e.g. Aluna and Doctor Repulsor).
Also, the mana steal would also benefit STR + AGI heroes, if they get Mindbrand and mix it with Firebrand and/or Icebrand.

3% doesn't sound like much, but as long as the target has more than 670 mana left, it will steal more mana than a 3300g Nullfire Blade burns on attacks.

Also, without any items, an average lvl 25 hero will have:
INT: ~ 1400 mana
STR: ~ 1000 mana
AGI: ~ 1100 (varies a lot)

Let say u attack an enemy who has 1000 mana; the first attack will steal 30 mana, then 29, 28, 27, 26.5 ....
= 140.5 Mana steal in 5 attacks.

If the enemy had 500 mana, it would be 15, 14.5, 14, 13.5, 13 mana stolen.
= 70 Mana steal in 5 attacks.

To make the attack modifier more powerful, it could deal damage equal to the mana stolen. (Forgot to write that earlier).
The mana steal could also just be the same amount all the time, like Nullfires mana burn - or just be more than 3%.

[GoldTool]

YES! I was hoping someone other than myself would realized a missing sword(brand). The intellect one. So yes, implement this item asap. Just balance the stats, and GO!!!!!!!! MAKE IT NOW!

[Ripoff]

Seems decent enough, but I would like some more insight on this item. Who should have this is core/rejected and luxury etc. Who would benefit the most? Why should he pick up this instead of X?

[prettyboysam]

Fantastic idea! If a cooldown reduction is too much a mana regen might work too

[Dr_Hobo`]

I like it, but numbers bit be abit strong. But i like the idea and the slow etc.

[Alltec]

Got my vote! Now, S2 ****ing hire this guy/these people and implement this in the game, may require a little toning down but it is a great idea just awsome!

[Rkey]

You should also be able to build this into another item, since you know firebrand makes geometers and icebrand makes frostwolf. Maybe this one, combine it with nome's wisdom and a recipe or something?

[Alten]

I like these ideas; the only real change for SoT I would suggest is that, Sands of Time doesn't reduce movement speed. When the Frostwolf Skull changes come into effect, Sands of Time in its current form would simply replace it in the melee carry neutering department. For movement speed reduction, we already have Frostfield Plate (which sadly doesn't see much action because of the presence of Frostwolf). Sands of Time, as it stands, already seems incredibly powerful even with the suggested nerf to it.

I think that, perhaps, Triforce would also be imbalanced on ganking ranged semi-carries. On Valkyrie, for instance, Triforce would give her powerful stats, a stronger version of chilled for chasing, the highest static movement speed increase in the game, and boosted casting potential to supplement her already potent spells (in addition to essentially solving her mana problems....). Valkyrie and numerous other ranged ganker-carries benefit enough from Frostburn; I can't help but feel that this would increase their power monopoly. Perhaps, to balance it, you could give it different properties for ranged and melee, like other items that could be imba if they had melee properties on ranged (MQ brutalizer mass physical stun trolololol). Isn't Triforce also already copyrighted to Nintendo? In any case, it's kind of gimicky; Triblade or Tribrand might be more appropriate....

Lastly, I think Thunderbrand and its derivative items would increase the power of several Int heroes monstrously. Torturer initiation, for instance, would finally be on par with Pyromancer initiation, in addition to increasing everything else spell-wise to turn what is already considered an Overpowered hero into a complete wrecking ball. Pyromancer, Myrmidon, Aluna, PM, etc. would gain eye-popping boosts to spells that have intentional drawbacks to make up for their power; almost every Int hero, as it stands, is viable in some fashion, and this might push Int in general into the imbalanced category.

Stormfreeze and Embershock, I feel, would also mesh better grammatically compared to Ligthningfreeze and Firezapp.

Other than these concerns, I think you have great ideas. It would really change the game if these were implemented; it's important to balance these out, though, so an already-formidable Int section doesn't become overpowered. Keep making good threads :D

[GauntElakor]

@Candylicious: You do have points there, but mana steal is not one of the things this game needs, and I am not trying to adress that with this item

@Ripoff: Archanebrand as it stands would become a core pickup on several spellspammers, spell dependant carries and certain gankers. :jera::thun::pyro::moon::soulr: are the first to popp into my mind, anyone who wants to get their spells of often. On heroes who might want to avoid this :arma::arac::drun: and other physical carries, they should spend their gold other places.

@Rkey: It does, Sands of Time.

@Alten: SOT is probably very powerfull, but it was just implemented next to frostwolf and geometres. It is not the main focus of this thread by a long shot so S2 dosnt really have to do anything about it, but they can also do whatever they want with it.
Yes Triforce(this is a filler name) wil make lots of heroes powerfull. But the the odd 7k would make most heroes powerfull no matter what they buy. And yes, the Triforce slow on ranged will be weaker than the one on melee.
The only way this items boosts spells are by cooldowns, there wont be any eye popping spells flying around due to this, Spellshard already does that. This will only help make those spells fly a bit more often. Its still the same arrow that hits you, not some uber javelin thrown by a godes incarnated(oh wait it already is).
And lastly, as you probably have noticed, the grammatic perfection of naming is not a gift I have been given, S2 can deal with that aswell.

@Everyone else: Thanks, and yeah balance would be good, but not my strong side.

[FuzioN]

this item should get implemented allthou the cooldown with triforce does it stack with spellshards?

Also it should add the stats to build triforce wich it doesnt give. the stats str/int/agi doesnt get added to the game´:P

[LotharsHedge]

Interesting, although I think the numbers for cast time reduction and cooldown reduction are a bit too high, I really like the concept.

Suggestion for ThunderBrand
-Choose one (either CDR or CTR) and keep it or buff it a little bit.
Reasoning: Icebrand only adds damage and the slow, Firebrand only adds damage and the movespeed. Why should part three add three things (CDR, CTR, and damage)?


Idea for Sands of Time (Active): Increases all mana costs by 30% and magic damage dealt by 20% for X seconds.

Just some thoughts, hope you like them :D

[Skyve]

honestly, I'd kinda consider Arcana the counterpart to Firebrand/Forstbrand.

[Gridlocked]

I like the concept and the interaction OP is suggesting to go with the already established items but I have 2 misgivings.

The first is that Spellshards already has the cooldown reduction so it is kinda stepping on its toes, although a solution I can see to this is making Spellshards into the "blessed orb" item like FWS and Geo for this sword.

The other is there is already immense power creep on Frost/Firebrand and their progeny which needs to be addressed before any more of the family is added.

Oh and for combined names I would like to suggest: Frostgale and Thunderburn

[SilhouetteX]

pleaseeeeee. I beg of you. Implement.

[Watercat]

I think you should rename it lightbrand, and call fire + light lightbringer which makes your spells set them on fire.

[Frosty_Skull]

LOVE THIS!caps

[GauntElakor]

Nice to see all these positive comments :D
Also nice to get the attention of a GM. And yes there is a bit of a problem with spellshards, but I believe this will cater to a sligthly different playstyle than spellshards. The idea of making "this brand" a compnent to spellshards has crossed my mind, but I wasnt entirely sure what S2 would think of it.
With balance in mind Im not really the go to person, so S2 can and will do whatever they like with this

[OJPhoenix]

I like the concept and the interaction OP is suggesting to go with the already established items but I have 2 misgivings.

The first is that Spellshards already has the cooldown reduction so it is kinda stepping on its toes, although a solution I can see to this is making Spellshards into the "blessed orb" item like FWS and Geo for this sword.

The other is there is already immense power creep on Frost/Firebrand and their progeny which needs to be addressed before any more of the family is added.

Oh and for combined names I would like to suggest: Frostgale and Thunderburn

He makes a good point, but I reckon the Spellshards could work with it, even if not the concept alone is still good

I too have some suggestions I've been meaning to mention:
ThunderFlame
FrostStrike
and lastly Ultima

Yeah the colours are different, this is because I couldn't help but think of the Final Fantasy mix of the primary magic, Blizzard Thunder Fire and the most powerful magic being Ultima

[Whitestorm5]

I like and hate this. I like it because it seems like something new and fun though it needs to be really reworked because its op as balls. I hate it because if supports start picking this up I'm gonna break some legs.

[Laky]

why only so few Up votes ? ... its awesome item .. with awesome potential

[Sherwood]

I agree with the concept, but in my opinion the heroes that would be building a Frostburn who would be int would be heroes that were trying to push their auto attack damage and tend to have short cooldown:

Demented Shaman
Pyromancer (traditionally makes FWS to carry with [Harkons to be reckless])
Aluna
Accursed (Strength but technically a caster that uses Frostburn) (Gets it because of the synergy with Sear, the movement speed, attackspeed increase, enemy movement slow)
Slither (Agility but technically a caster)
Shadowblade

It feels like since there's a need for a cast speed increase item then you decided it'd be good to put it on this item, which I disagree with.
The stats are fine if you're making the upgraded version, just not if you're making Triforce.

IMO the point of exotic items, not only for the stat increase, but the bonus effects too. If I was building a form of carry, I would find reduced cooldowns and increased cast speed underwhelming compared to:
Increased Movement Speed (underrated)
Stacking Slow

I was going to make a suggestion of this theme today but I was smart enough to look for existing threads. My proposal was to give one of the benefits "Spell Vampirism" which basically means any magic damage dealt by the hero would heal it by x amount (Rhap's Aura as a stand-alone item).
Alternatively, when you attack the enemy, you reduce their mana regeneration by x amount, and you gain that mana regeneration. Stacks 5 times.
These are more interesting effects which I am suggesting.
Although probably too late as you appear to have an army of support with your underwhelming bonuses.

You need to give the int sword comparable bonuses that don't overshadow Harkon's Blade that also doesn't give what consitutes an attack modifier. Harkon's Blade is meant to serve the role as reckless pure offensive that boosts magic damage (Mirrored Shieldbreaker). I see the Int sword to be more-defensive damage option. You often see Agility Ranged Carries picking Frostburn because as well as the bonuses and being able to make a SH destroying FWS and scaling Geometers, you gain a nice chunk of Health at little expense. I just want Thunderbrand to be seen in the same regard as Firebrand/Icebrand rather than that "Intellect tack-on".