View Full Version : Heroes that skip Ultimates
archeagle
10-25-2010, 05:17 PM
After some conflicting arguments with other pubs about grabbing ultimates too early/late, what's the definitive list of when you should skip the lv6/11 or even 16 ultimate? Some of the ones I thought of:
Pebs - Another point in sta/chuck is far more useful.
Wildsoul - Should still be farming jungle.
Scout (?)
Valk (?)
Torturer - Way too much manacost till late game.
Hammerstorm (?) - Don't get why this is avoided till mid game.. 100% based damage will surely be useful in early teamfights or ganks.
Glacius - Which is better, more slow/stun/regen or a luck based ulti?
Soulstealer
Madman (?) - Really dont understand this. Atleast get it for added movespeed to chase..
Any others?
DrunkDoter
10-25-2010, 05:29 PM
I think that Scout's ulti should be taken at 6, it does a decent amount of dmg.
Valk can get her ult whenever she wants. Some people get at 6, most people get later.
Hammerstorm should get his ult at 6.
Madman's ult at lvl 1 isn't very good. His other two spells are better.
Also electrician can situationally skip his ult at 6 if he has a point in grip.
busterswd
10-25-2010, 05:34 PM
Valk and Slither have prohibitively expensive mana costs on their ults, and Valk's vanilla skills are all quite powerful the earlier you get them.
Skipping Madman's ult stems from the olden days when his ult was incredibly expensive. However, at level 6, you're still fragile and unlikely to be doing very much autoattack damage. In addition, Stalk and Barrel Roll are too good early on to not max. And it doesn't add to movespeed, you might be mistaking it with another ability.
:madm: first two skills are better
:wild: if your safe nueting you dont need it
:deme: it isnt a /must/ grab but recommended. If the lane is going terrible you can skip to focus on heal/slow till about 8.
:warb: same deal as wildsoul.
:pebb: better damage from skipping it at 6
:vood: if your laning with a heavy nuker its more mana efficient to skip it if you can kill them without it.
:vind: if your lanes wont need a silence early and your against someone that your mana drain actually effects.
:jera: dont always need it in lane
:valk: her burst is epic
:tort: too expensive
:blac: increases mana costs if memory serves.
:glac: skip if your finding you dont have much mana to waste
:souls: always skip it
Ones that come to mind, may have missed some.
pedobearpig
10-25-2010, 05:44 PM
Valk and Slither have prohibitively expensive mana costs on their ults, and Valk's vanilla skills are all quite powerful the earlier you get them.
Skipping Madman's ult stems from the olden days when his ult was incredibly expensive. However, at level 6, you're still fragile and unlikely to be doing very much autoattack damage. In addition, Stalk and Barrel Roll are too good early on to not max. And it doesn't add to movespeed, you might be mistaking it with another ability.
unless they changed it last patch, his ulti adds ms (movespeed)
:blac: increases mana costs if memory serves.
terrible advice imo, blacksmith with no multicast is pretty meh - though I never realized it increased his mana costs (not even sure if that is actually true)
busterswd
10-25-2010, 05:58 PM
Ah, damn, you're right.
Still, stalk and barrel roll are pretty sexy.
terrible advice imo, blacksmith with no multicast is pretty meh - though I never realized it increased his mana costs (not even sure if that is actually true)
It increases the manacost by 30 and instead you could get a higher rank of fireball. Less expensive more reliable damage. It is viable just depends on how mana dependant you are at the time and how difficult your lane is.
Killstealing
10-25-2010, 06:05 PM
It increases the manacost by 30 and instead you could get a higher rank of fireball. Less expensive more reliable damage. It is viable just depends on how mana dependant you are at the time and how difficult your lane is.
with chalice the mana isn't really a problem and suddenly getting a multicast while harassing with stun is pretty much a kill
Passthechips
10-25-2010, 06:14 PM
:arma: :madm: :wild: :warb: :pebb: :deme: :valk: :tort: :pred: :glac:
Are the ones I can think of.
Killstealing
10-25-2010, 06:16 PM
:arma: :madm: :wild: :warb: :pebb: :deme: :valk: :tort: :pred: :glac:
Are the ones I can think of.
Armas ult is awesome, gives you speed to chase and retarded damage when pumped up. Dsham's ult is great as well, the armor really makes a difference when cast before a fight. That **** can double your teams damage. Preds ult is a must as well, easy -2 armor, movement speed to keep up with rangeds and attack speed
Kraphty
10-25-2010, 06:18 PM
:warb: same deal as wildsoul.
:blac: increases mana costs if memory serves.
I agreed with ur whole post, except these two. A warbeast in a lane can get his ult at level 6, and start getting some kills in the side lane next to the jungle. And if they ever come into the jungle, it's nice to have an escape mechanism.
Blacksmith without multicast is sadface. 30 more mana, that's fine. Assumming your leveling ur fireball over flaming hammer or frenzy the point spent will either be in one of the lesser 2 of his abilites. The chance to multi cast is much more valuable.
I agreed with ur whole post, except these two. A warbeast in a lane can get his ult at level 6, and start getting some kills in the side lane next to the jungle. And if they ever come into the jungle, it's nice to have an escape mechanism.
Blacksmith without multicast is sadface. 30 more mana, that's fine. Assumming your leveling ur fireball over flaming hammer or frenzy the point spent will either be in one of the lesser 2 of his abilites. The chance to multi cast is much more valuable.
A warbeast can skip it without it being bad. It comes down to how strong the side lane next to him is. And this is also in pub games and some times your teammate is too retarded to make it worth while or your team is bad and the double lane is next to your forest. Circumstantial skippable as warbeast is a pub hero after all.
Blacksmiths skill build should be maxxing slow over stun in pretty much every game. A level 2 multicast fireball 25% of the time for an extra 30 mana isnt a must grab over level 3 fireball, which decreases fire balls cooldown by 3 seconds meaning you can stun ---> slow ---> stun so they stunned/slowed the entire time.
rnichael
10-25-2010, 07:44 PM
:fors:
StyveHanter
10-25-2010, 07:50 PM
unless they changed it last patch, his ulti adds ms (movespeed)
But Madman has a skill called stalk which gives him near max MS with just orange boots.
Bremm
10-25-2010, 07:59 PM
...snip...
Blacksmith without multicast is sadface. 30 more mana, that's fine. Assumming your leveling ur fireball over flaming hammer or frenzy the point spent will either be in one of the lesser 2 of his abilites. The chance to multi cast is much more valuable.
No, as Lucksmith you WANT to have Fireball maxed asap, especially because its dmg doesn't scale linear from Slvl3-Slvl4. Just do some math and compare a lvl 7 :blac: under the following circumstances...
a) 3-3-0-1 skillbuild (175 dmg, 25% chance to cast twice, 12 sec CD, 125 manacost)
b) 4-3-0-0 skillbuild (275 dmg, 15 sec CD, 105 manacost)
Really want to gamble that early on? I agree, since LOLchalice was introduced, he could actually use his combo to harrass. But however, at that stage he doesn't have shitloads of mana. And he should nevertheless rely on a possible 2x multicast to take a kill from his laning partner...
/edit - To the poster below me: 4-2-0-1 skillbuild (275 dmg, 25% chance to cast twice, 12 sec CD, 135 manacost). As you can see it's optional, but only a 1/4 chance to multicast for 30 more mana. Still I would prefer raising Flaming Hammer next to Fireball for more constant dmg, thanks to the better slow+DoT+MA debuff (since your combo is always slow>stun).
StyveHanter
10-25-2010, 08:02 PM
What about 4-2-0-1, how much damage does this do?
shibbidydoo
10-25-2010, 08:16 PM
I actually like 4 hammer, 2 fireball, 1 ult at 7. Why? Cause an aoe (small) 40% slow, -4 magic armor, for 7 seconds is fantastic for making anyone squishy enough for my team mate. If you were solo ganking however, i can understand maxing fireball.
Just a personal opinion.
pedobearpig
10-25-2010, 08:57 PM
But Madman has a skill called stalk which gives him near max MS with just orange boots.
your point? i was merely correcting bad information. not stating that his ulti should not be skipped. thanks tho bro.
*this post was originally a math post that is quoted later if you want to see it. Whilst it proved my point (skipping ultimate is viable) i changed my mind on skill progression. Removed it to stop anyone reading it and doing the wrong thing :D
:vind: - Big mana cost, early game it might not be very useful. Really depends on the other teams heroes and how the game is going.
:dark: - She needs to max dark blades and charging strikes asap to be effective.
:valk: - Other skills are better.
:tort: - Costs way to much mana to use early, get it after you have some good mana regen.
:glac: - Depending on how the game goes the extra slow/stun may be more useful.
:elec: - If the other team has no buffs or debuff effects to purge it isn't very useful early.
:souls: - Without 30 souls the spell isn't worth using, and maxing hands comes before souls, so get it at lv9
:madm: - first two skills are way to powerful to delay.
:wild: - I often don't get this at all as it makes you melee, can be an excellent ranged carry without it.t
:warb: - If you are hardcore jungling without anyone trying to gank then the other skills are better to jungle faster.
:deme: - lv3 entangle makes it stun, heal nuke is extremely powerful. Early game ganks don't last long enough for it to make much difference.
:slit: - depending on the game, you may want to delay it as it has a very large mana cost with a hero with very little mana.
:pebb: - Skill build that has most burst is 121212241.
:scou: - If you are hardcore farming it might not be needed.
I think between vahn's list and mine its pretty much /threaded :D
shibbidydoo
10-25-2010, 11:07 PM
:vind: - Big mana cost, early game it might not be very useful. Really depends on the other teams heroes and how the game is going.
:dark: - She needs to max dark blades and charging strikes asap to be effective.
:valk: - Other skills are better.
:tort: - Costs way to much mana to use early, get it after you have some good mana regen.
:glac: - Depending on how the game goes the extra slow/stun may be more useful.
:elec: - If the other team has no buffs or debuff effects to purge it isn't very useful early.
:souls: - Without 30 souls the spell isn't worth using, and maxing hands comes before souls, so get it at lv9
:madm: - first two skills are way to powerful to delay.
:wild: - I often don't get this at all as it makes you melee, can be an excellent ranged carry without it.t
:warb: - If you are hardcore jungling without anyone trying to gank then the other skills are better to jungle faster.
:deme: - lv3 entangle makes it stun, heal nuke is extremely powerful. Early game ganks don't last long enough for it to make much difference.
:slit: - depending on the game, you may want to delay it as it has a very large mana cost with a hero with very little mana.
:pebb: - Skill build that has most burst is 121212241.
:scou: - If you are hardcore farming it might not be needed.
Vindi: You are right, dependant on lanes, but can save your team in a pinch with map awareness. Id say take it.
Dark Lady: Again CAN save your team in a pinch. Also, we went on this in another thread, but dark blades should only be leveled instead of slow with a trilane team. But as a global ult that can save lives, id pick it up.
Basically agree with the rest.
StyveHanter
10-25-2010, 11:42 PM
your point? i was merely correcting bad information. not stating that his ulti should not be skipped. thanks tho bro.
No problem just adding additional info to your post.
@ yyr, sweet. Blacksmith's ult should be skipped.
Zaroua
10-26-2010, 04:46 AM
If you're dominating your lane as :pebb:, actually getting your ult at lvl 6 can *sometimes* be a good choice since it helps tremendously with last hitting. This obviously is mostly for pub games.
StyveHanter
10-26-2010, 05:29 AM
If you're dominating your lane as :pebb:, actually getting your ult at lvl 6 can *sometimes* be a good choice since it helps tremendously with last hitting. This obviously is mostly for pub games.
In this case max out Chuck before stalagmites.
Fluffywolf
10-26-2010, 05:36 AM
For someone saying that War beast doesn't need to get ult if he's safe neuting, I disagree. Wards can only do so much, if someone gets invis rune for example and goes to gank you, you'd be screwed unless you got ult and either kill or juke. War beast is sluggish and easy to gank when jungling until he gets his ult and can juke to safety. I think ult at level 6 is a must for any war beast.
I go 1-2-1-2-1-4-2-2-4-1 as pebbles. His combo damage with the added one hit you always get in does most damage this way at each level, and ult's movement speed and last hit capability should not be underestimated.
TehAl
10-26-2010, 06:13 AM
I think a recent HONcast (can't remember which) pretty much showcased that not getting Jereziahs ult at 6 can be a bad decision. There are few situations where an ult won't save someone just as much as an extra rank of heal/shield, and the extra utility and anti-gank power of his ult is invaluable, especially since it isn't incredibly mana intensive.
I go 1-2-1-2-1-4-2-2-4-1 as pebbles. His combo damage with the added one hit you always get in does most damage this way at each level, and ult's movement speed and last hit capability should not be underestimated.
How are you getting ult at lv6 and lv9?
As i posted before 1-2-1-2-1-2-2-4-1 is the build that does the most damage.
That is factoring the 1 auto attack.
Pebbles has such a high damage you don't need the ult to last hit, if you do then you need to practice last hitting.
How are you getting ult at lv6 and lv9?
As i posted before 1-2-1-2-1-2-2-4-1 is the build that does the most damage.
That is factoring the 1 auto attack.
Pebbles has such a high damage you don't need the ult to last hit, if you do then you need to practice last hitting.
That.
Yukari
10-26-2010, 01:49 PM
Don't skip ult on dsham, its far too good. You are sacrificing one level of heal for it, meaning roughly 20 or 40 healed hp vs armor reduction. If you are playing aggressive, then you could very well make it so that your opponents are in the negative during your attacks, and if you are playing defensively, this heavily reduces their ability to towerdive.
I didnt take enough **** into account for the blacksmith ultimate. But yes it is still recommended you skip it, just the recommended build up i gave before was wrong.
1. Stun / Slow
2. Slow / Stun
3. Slow
4. Stun
5. Slow
6. Stun
7. Stun
8. Ultimate / Slow
9. Slow / Ultimate
The ultimate at 8 gives higher burst damage but does lower average damage. I decided to actual do it properly drew out every possible skill progression and calc'd the damage for every level along each path and that is pretty much the best build up.
The typical 4-2-0-1 by 7 is actually not a good build is outshined by this build at every level except 7 where it is higher burst but crap chance (still wouldnt do it), at level 8 the are equal.
Locking in this as the /best/ way to build blacksmith without looking at lane heroes, scenarios, playstyle, etc. Generic build you should go.
I usually skip TDL ulti for 2/3 levles, just because I like to get spell 1 and 3 up more
Don't skip ult on dsham, its far too good. You are sacrificing one level of heal for it, meaning roughly 20 or 40 healed hp vs armor reduction. If you are playing aggressive, then you could very well make it so that your opponents are in the negative during your attacks, and if you are playing defensively, this heavily reduces their ability to towerdive.
I would say skipping it for one or two levels is worth it, you should be getting entangle lv3 at lv5 because it gives the 1 second stun, making the skills so much more effective.
Meaning when you get lv6 you should have 3-2-0-0 so far, levels 3 and 4 of healing wave increase the amount of units it chains to 1 each. Of course if a big team fight is likely to happen then the ultimate is worth getting asap.
CrazyAce
10-27-2010, 01:37 PM
TDL, Vind, and Valk are questionable heroes for skipping ults because they are global support ults, so you'd have to be very aware of the gameflow to be able to make the right choice in skipping them.
Blacksmith, Soulstealer, and Pebbles are easy picks for early ult skips.
Lego and Ramp can skip their ults just because they suck. Unfortunately, their ults are also pretty much only usable in the early game. So basically, you're screwed.
Hero_of_Noob
10-27-2010, 02:03 PM
Surprised nobody mentioned Predator on the first page at least. I play him a lot lately and never take his ult until i max leap and possibly his lifesteal, so i get the ult at like 10 and 11.
Liability
10-27-2010, 02:04 PM
FA has only been mentioned once, but you can do it.
Maybe Armadon, not quite sure myself.
Also possible on Bombardier.
Hero_of_Noob
10-27-2010, 02:32 PM
Yes armdon also should max spines before he gets ult, with 1 point in snot and one point in armadillo, so that means level 8 or 9 is better for his ult.
JoshPFriends
10-27-2010, 02:50 PM
:madm: first two skills are better
:wild: if your safe nueting you dont need it
:deme: it isnt a /must/ grab but recommended. If the lane is going terrible you can skip to focus on heal/slow till about 8.
:warb: same deal as wildsoul.
:pebb: better damage from skipping it at 6
:vood: if your laning with a heavy nuker its more mana efficient to skip it if you can kill them without it.
:vind: if your lanes wont need a silence early and your against someone that your mana drain actually effects.
:jera: dont always need it in lane
:valk: her burst is epic
:tort: too expensive
:blac: increases mana costs if memory serves.
:glac: skip if your finding you dont have much mana to waste
:souls: always skip it
Ones that come to mind, may have missed some.
die.
don't skip these ..
die.
don't skip these ..
Somebody woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning.
Wanna try write a constructive post, because im pretty sure your wrong and your PSR doesnt make you /win in theory crafting. You can skip your ultimates on some of those.
Lukas
10-29-2010, 04:15 AM
Hi! Pretty much dedicated support player here with Dsham as my bread and butter. My PSR isn't too great, so obviously far better players can debunk my opinions, but I feel that there is a decent chance my points will have some merit.
Personally, I think DSham's ult should almost always be taken at 6. It has too much utility.
- Trying to prolong a push on a tower by a few more seconds and worried about opponent's TPing in or wrapping around? Ult.
- Your teammates in the other lane are in the process of being ganked, running for their lives with 5% HP, and you TPed in to heal/snare counter-gank? Ult. From the way the numbers work even a level two heal will probably save their asses if they weren't so out of position that they were able to get back to tower while being chased. If the opponents commit too much to the gank, the TP counter-gank and ult will shred their armor by the time they get anywhere near their tower. Your auto-attacks will be ripping them.
- Your teammates TPs are on cooldown and are trying to rotate as fast as they can, you and one ally are stuck under a tower, and the other team is 4-5 man pushing to try and force a teamfight? Ult. I've deterred so many team fights by 10-20 seconds just by ulting their team in the face for no other reason than wanting to ult them in the face. They see that as team-fight initiation and hesitate, wondering what's lurking in fog of war. Even if they know better and have the higher numbers, they don't really want to initiate a team-fight/pseudo-tower dive when they're dsham ulted. It usually buys enough time for your friend's TPs to get off cooldown or for them to run over to have a proper even teamfight. At the very least you can save the tower.
- And then the obvious standard team-fight ult.
Besides. There's little point to getting the level 4 entangle so early into the game with minimal yields for the skill point. So you can nab the next two levels of healing wave pretty quickly. Only time I would strongly consider skipping ult is when they have a good pyro/witch/deadwood on their team, so the ganking phase might be pro-longed and both teams won't be moving as five as early. I'd skip the ult for a level or two to throw some points into arcane hide so I can toss the superman cape on someone prior to the nuke ults.
Pwnograhpy
10-29-2010, 07:27 AM
:blac: increases mana costs if memory serves
I disapprove. You don't skip his ultimate for that reason. You skip it to prolong your rng stacking so that when you skill it you have an outburst of multicasts for a longer amount of time.
troldmand
10-29-2010, 12:59 PM
:temp: skips lvl 2 and 3 of ult till he gets the mana for it
_blomman
10-29-2010, 01:59 PM
:hell: :dead:
sk1llz4
10-29-2010, 05:55 PM
Valk doesn't really need it that much early game, since it doesn't last that long, her nukes are more usefull. But Demented has little reason to skip it, his ulti is useful on all levels.
Midya
10-29-2010, 06:07 PM
Its one thing not getting the Valk ult at lvl 6...but leveling everything else and getting it at lvl 12 is just stupid imo.
Llama
10-29-2010, 06:32 PM
Yes armdon also should max spines before he gets ult, with 1 point in snot and one point in armadillo, so that means level 8 or 9 is better for his ult.
I disagree here.
If you take snot, you shouldn't have any trouble chasing people at all so more levels in spines/passive before ult.
However I think snot is a mana dump, and if I'm in a side lane never take it until 10. This means I usually get ult at 6, but if its a hard lane ill leave it til everything else is maxed again.
I'll take snot first only if we've got a sure firstblood, or I'm mid against a hero that im fighting with for runes.
varon
10-29-2010, 08:50 PM
I sometimes skip my ult with :keep:. If I'm playing vs a non-squishy hero at mid the ult alone isn't going to be enough to kill them and his 2nd and 3rd skills are just so good.
EZoffBAM
10-30-2010, 02:31 AM
i tend to skip ophelias ulti and nymph ultis early on (: not that they suck but yeah *shrugs*
shibbidydoo
10-30-2010, 01:39 PM
...wut? Ophs ult lets her solo kong at 7, nymphs ult makes her the ultimate ganker... I can understand nymph if youre maxing stun/pod, but oph??
AtheistGod
10-30-2010, 01:59 PM
Vindi: You are right, dependant on lanes, but can save your team in a pinch with map awareness. Id say take it.
Dark Lady: Again CAN save your team in a pinch. Also, we went on this in another thread, but dark blades should only be leveled instead of slow with a trilane team. But as a global ult that can save lives, id pick it up.
Basically agree with the rest.
Both of those are very situational ults. They can be powerful but can also end up doing nothing. The short duration combined with them being best for team fights means early game you might end up not being able to ever use them.
Magebane is the only hero not mentioned so far I can think of. The ult doesn't do much damage early game and having an extra rank of flash can be very useful.
Tanubis
10-30-2010, 03:12 PM
4-3-0-0
275 damage from stun, 30 magic damage per second for 7.5 seconds, 25% slow and -3 magic armour.
approximate magic damage: 441
3-3-0-1
175 damage from stun, 30 magic damage per second for 7.5 seconds, 25% slow and -3 magic armour. 25% chance to double cast.
approximate magic damage: 353, chance to do 508 (avg of 391.75)
4-2-0-1
275 damage from stun, 20 magic damage per second for 7.5 seconds, 20% slow and -2 magic armour. 25% chance to double cast.
approximate magic damage: 375, chance to do 619 (avg of 436)
3-4-0-0
175 damage from stun, 40 magic damage per second for 7.5 seconds, 30% slow and -4 magic armour.
Approximate magic damage: 446
Max hammers:
A) Comparing to 4-2-0-1
The hammers has 50 less magic damage output on average but this is easily covered by the autoattacks by the superior slow. A single nuke from your teammates would also cover this damage. Whilst this build has the chance to do good damage (600) its only 25% of the time and its build up is crap as it means your either 3-2-0-1 or 4-2-0-0 or 3-1-0-1 which sub par and all of theses means you got fireball at level 5 as well which is bad. This is putting all your eggs in 1 basket and is not worth it. 25%chance to deal an extra 150 damage over the actual good build which has superior slow and magic armour reduction.
B) Comparing to the others
The best build is to skip ultimate and max hammers by level 7. It also has a better slow so you will deal more auto attack damage. The negative magic armour means your lane mates nuke deal more damage making it easily better then the other builds. Also its the most mana efficient.
/thread on blacksmith :D
I cant help but feel that whoever writes a blacksmith guide has the hard bit already done for them. Ill end up writing one in couple of weeks as there seems to be alot of questions on it.
Updated your information to reflect damage averages based off % chance. The reason people take 4 in the fireball is because it averages just 10 points less damage, but because it is unpredictable your opponent has to assume that any cast before it happens has a threat of the maximum damage, forcing them to play much more cautiously or die 25% of the time to a multicast. I recommend taking the 4/2/1 build anytime where you are the only source of magic damage in the lane, because it offers much more threat. Take the slow over the nuke anytime you are in a situation where harrasing constantly has a good effect OR whenever you have a lane partner who has a source of magic damage.
....
The math i did in that post was really half assed, i fixed up my thoughts in my second post which wasnt in agreement with my first, i should probably edit my posts so people stop pick up on it :P
shibbidydoo
10-31-2010, 01:24 AM
Both of those are very situational ults. They can be powerful but can also end up doing nothing. The short duration combined with them being best for team fights means early game you might end up not being able to ever use them.
Magebane is the only hero not mentioned so far I can think of. The ult doesn't do much damage early game and having an extra rank of flash can be very useful.
I agree, with mage. I skip until 9, then skip aura alltogether depending on team. Aura only helps against heroes with hard to land aoe, such as pyro. I skip it for stats.
As for vindi, the fact that the ults ARE situational is strong enough a reason for me to pick it. It has saved me and team mates a lot. Again, just personal opinion.
EZoffBAM
10-31-2010, 01:45 AM
i spend most of my time pushing and ganking instead of kong :(
sindriing
11-01-2010, 01:04 PM
in case you didnt know getting wild souls ultimate increases his attack speed ang gives him a spell which gives him 20 damage and some armor early on so getting the ultimate actully helps you farm more then your other skills
Gimatria
11-01-2010, 01:17 PM
I disagree with skipping glacius ult every time on lvl 6. It can be more usefull to max your regen or your nukes, but if you have a lane partner with a strong stun your ult is VERY strong. Hammer or Pest for example. U freeze, your teammate stuns, and u channel ult on top of the enemy = certain kill. So depending on your lane partner (and the enemy's), it can be very good to lvl your ult at 6.
What9000
11-01-2010, 01:20 PM
Dsham's ult is great as well, the armor really makes a difference when cast before a fight.
Dsham's ult should be taken at 8 once you have entangle at 3 and heal at 4. entangle only gets useful at lvl 3,because of its stun, lvling entangle to 4 is just increase in mana cost. Its kinda no-****-sherlock situation to level your heal as fast as possible, more damage +healz.
you NEED level 3 entangle,you need better healz, you do not need an armor decrease that takes 5 seconds to get really useful. delaying your ult 2 levels is worth the boost in heal and the stun provided from the other skills.
What9000
11-01-2010, 01:22 PM
in case you didnt know getting wild souls ultimate increases his attack speed ang gives him a spell which gives him 20 damage and some armor early on so getting the ultimate actully helps you farm more then your other skills
^^ this.
Although wild's ult is not as useful in team fights its very good for farming, where creeps will not run from your awesome power.
tweetytoun
11-02-2010, 02:00 PM
I build my :dark: like :
level : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 11
skill : 2 - 3 - 3 - 2 - 3 - 1 - 1 - 1 - 1 - 3 - 4 - 4
To farm well enough.
Btw team-fight often don't start before level 7-8 so ultimate is not a must
Benny0
11-02-2010, 02:36 PM
Skipping Sol's Blessing is a horrible mistake.
Wildsoul's ulti does actually slightly decrease his BAT, is it such a small amount that it doesn't make a difference in his farming compared to natural attunement?
Rawnslaught
11-03-2010, 01:55 AM
Its one thing not getting the Valk ult at lvl 6...but leveling everything else and getting it at lvl 12 is just stupid imo.
I agree, why stop at 4-4-3. Ult at 13,14,16 for sure.
dualscoutmid
11-27-2010, 12:33 PM
:mora: he needs more axes.
Heart`Heart`
11-27-2010, 04:50 PM
Sometimes I skip the ultimate on Soul Reaper, but it really depends on how well I am doing in lane, the enemy composition and other factors.