Xfin Swindled?

[a`k]

http://www.dotallyrad.com/2010/10/11/xfin-forgot-to-read-rule-number-1/

So Xfin ends up playing MSI on a EU server with MSI as HB. How does this happen?

1. Originally Xfin vs. MSI was going to be played on USE. This is how its supposed to be since Xfin is primarily USW and MSI is EU. According to
http://www.gosugamers.net/hon/features/2517.

2. MSI proceeds to pick the worst USE server when they host. They then ***** about the server to the Gosu Gamer Admins until the admins say roll for the server.

3. Sn3yking can't roll so MSI ends up with a EU server. Then does XFin atleast get hb? Nope have to roll for that too.

**** like this needs to be fixed games aren't decided by a server roll. Xfins average ping: 272. MSI: 128

[Onyx_Knight]

I saw this also, IF its true, sounds ****ing harsh

[AeiOwnedU]

I was typing this out before noticing it had already been brought it to the forums... My bad ^^

Now i'm not griefing @ all, but last I checked GosuGamers was trying to set the "standard" for not bending rules [after the Drayich post] and everything to be played to a T. Not only was the death to one of our key players family members not enough to reschedual the game... We get jewed on the Server, Game date & out of Hellbourne side... We don't care all that much tbh, even tho I'm blowing it up a bit. we place nonetheless lol.

Anything and everything pertaining to what I'm saying atm is below:

http://www.gosugamers.net/hon/features/2517




Recommended Server



Recommended Server
USW vs EU Play all games on USE
USE vs EU One on USE, one on EU, roll for 3rd (Or play on UK)
USW vs USE One on USE, one on USW, roll for 3rd
USW vs Russia One on USE, one on UK, roll for 3rd
USE vs Russia Play all on UK


As for the Australian and Asian teams you have to find a server best suiting you (check the pings to the servers, and make sure the are about the same for both teams)

If both teams agree on changing the server, it is possible. If - however- only one team wants another server, you have to stick to the recommended ones above.

Now don't get me wrong, I <3 MSI, love their play and ect, just feels kind of shady... :p

[siknoz]

rough stuff yo

perks of being top teams, people always bend for you :D

[KorokFanNr1]

to be fair, the first USE before the roll you were pinging 60 while msi was pinging 250, I don't think gosugamers rules intended US teams to get that advantage by default, also, this isn't USW vs EU, MSI has Bot playing from Israel, Israel isn't exactly next to France in the core of europe, it's more USW vs Russia than USW vs EU

Those rules you posted might apply to the Bo3 games, but not the bo1 ones.

[Happyfish]

just a fore warning, keep thread about gosu gamers and the topic at hand, any blatant off topic EU/NA bashing/trolling/flaming will be infracted.

[Onyx_Knight]

to be fair, the first USE before the roll you were pinging 60 while msi was pinging 250, I don't think gosugamers rules intended US teams to get that advantage by default, also, this isn't USW vs EU, MSI has Bot playing from Israel, Israel isn't exactly next to France, it's more USW vs Russia than USW vs EU

No offense but if people are that ****ing retarded that they dont know there are different USE servers.

And while it may suck for Bot, if a tournament has rules, they better be followed, I can't understand this bending of rules.

[Omnigrunt]

I don't see why you wouldn't insist on hosting with different USE server.

I play USE all the time and my ping varies from 50-180ms depending on the one I get. One bad server choice shouldn't automatically mean you need to switch regions.

Admins were also pretty stupid if they actually thought rolling for server AND THEN roll for legion/hb would be fair. The fairest way to divide a cake is to let one person make the cut, then let the other person choose which piece he wants.

[a`k]

I don't see why you wouldn't insist on hosting with different USE server.

I play USE all the time and my ping varies from 50-180ms depending on the one I get. One bad server choice shouldn't automatically mean you need to switch regions.

Admins were also pretty stupid if they actually thought rolling for server AND THEN roll for legion/hb would be fair. The fairest way to divide a cake is to let one person make the cut, then let the other person choose which piece he wants.

Rolling for server is independent of the in game rolls that determine hellbourne or legion/1st pick or second pick.

[KorokFanNr1]

No offense but if people are that ****ing retarded that they dont know there are different USE servers.

And while it may suck for Bot, if a tournament has rules, they better be followed, I can't understand this bending of rules.

Those rules are obviously set for a bo3 system.

[ridic`]

I was typing this out before noticing it had already been brought it to the forums... My bad ^^

Now i'm not griefing @ all, but last I checked GosuGamers was trying to set the "standard" for not bending rules [after the Drayich post] and everything to be played to a T. Not only was the death to one of our key players family members not enough to reschedual the game... We get jewed on the Server, Game date & out of Hellbourne side... We don't care all that much tbh, even tho I'm blowing it up a bit. we place nonetheless lol.

Anything and everything pertaining to what I'm saying atm is below:

http://www.gosugamers.net/hon/features/2517



Now don't get me wrong, I <3 MSI, love their play and ect, just feels kind of shady... :p


Well first off it says recommended server. Did you explicitly state no we won't change servers?

[ridic`]

http://www.dotallyrad.com/2010/10/11/xfin-forgot-to-read-rule-number-1/

So Xfin ends up playing MSI on a EU server with MSI as HB. How does this happen?

1. Originally Xfin vs. MSI was going to be played on USE. This is how its supposed to be since Xfin is primarily USW and MSI is EU. According to
http://www.gosugamers.net/hon/features/2517.

2. MSI proceeds to pick the worst USE server when they host. They then ***** about the server to the Gosu Gamer Admins until the admins say roll for the server.

3. Sn3yking can't roll so MSI ends up with a EU server. Then does XFin atleast get hb? Nope have to roll for that too.

**** like this needs to be fixed games aren't decided by a server roll. Xfins average ping: 272. MSI: 128

I fail to see how rolling for something is swindling. Stop fanboying Xfin.

[knowitall]

There shouldn't have been a roll. According to gosugamers' own rules, they should've been playing on a neutral server (USE).

[YtK]

Can you not read ridic`? MSI vs xFin was to be played on USE - since xFin is USW & MSI is EU its fair for both.

MSI whinned like little girls to the admins & said it was unplayable & they then rolled for servers.

The roll is fair - crying & whinning to get the roll instead of playing USE is swindling.

[cheami]

I fail to see how rolling for something is swindling. Stop fanboying Xfin.

you can't read boy?

[JAH`]

I am from Hawaii and most Europeans get the exact same ping to USE servers as I do and ya I spike sometimes I got a lil' delay but it really is honestly not that bad.

-It is 4968 miles from Hawaii to New York(USE).

-While the distance from New York City(USE) to Paris(EU) is only 3,636 miles.

When it comes down to it Europeans just want every advantage they can get and are just anal about this. When we cant find US scrims we will play on EU servers but european teams will NEVER ever scrim on US servers. I play alot of EU games i dont ***** about ping. Europeans simply are just less manly(no flame, jus truth).

The real soldiers who i never ever see complain are the Australian players who play with a consistent 300ish(400-500 on EU) ping all the time....Yo European players man the **** up.

Shoutout to all my homies in Oceania.

BTW: for our gosugamers match we played on EU eventhough rules say we shud play on USE, why? cuz im a man.

[FujiApples]

wtf when did bkid join msi B)

[Zekent]

Sorry Fuji, he be ditching you, I mean he's already in xFin!

But, to stay on topic.

The pre-game pretty much went like this

MSI hosts on USE server.
We roll for side, we lose.
MSI takes HB.
Admin joins game.
We consider starting game. (MSI has host)
MSI says something about ping.
We argue with admin for a while about rules.
We remembered reading that USW vs. EU means we play on a USE server or something like that.
We look for the rules, but couldn't find it.
Admin tells us to roll.
We roll (and lose)
We look for an EU server to host.
There is literally ONE EU server available.
We choose that one.
Start game.

-Zekent

[KingRaven]

Im' surprised Freshpro didn't someone swindle Kreasonn, his pal, on the other team to make sure he won the game.

[KorokFanNr1]

Sorry Fuji, he be ditching you, I mean he's already in xFin!

But, to stay on topic.

The pre-game pretty much went like this

MSI hosts on USE server.
We roll for side, we lose.
MSI takes HB.
Admin joins game.
We consider starting game. (MSI has host)
MSI says something about ping.
We argue with admin for a while about rules.
We remembered reading that USW vs. EU means we play on a USE server or something like that.
We look for the rules, but couldn't find it.
Admin tells us to roll.
We roll (and lose)
We look for an EU server to host.
There is literally ONE EU server available.
We choose that one.
Start game.

-Zekent

Think you're forgetting something, the part where the admin tells you you should have FF'd 2 hours ago or something.

Really, cant believe people are talking about a rule when it was 250 ping vs 60, US wins by default, not even a roll, why even play? And yeah, the match was honcasted live and I was watching at the time, breaky did a /pa and all that.

[kawaiivesu]

The real soldiers who i never ever see complain are the Australian players.

*snip*

Shoutout to all my homies in Oceania.

<-- #1 JAH` fanboi now. I expect at least four shoutouts.

> : D

[Tzaa]

To the topic, yes xFin got swindled... HARD.. Playing on EU server, and NOT being Hellbourne... Cold in the competition or is it, just me? :glac:

Rules are rules play by them. Too bad the Gosu-Admins don't know their own tournament rules :arma: !

[Cataclysma]

I don't understand how anyone can back up MSI right now. It's just outrageously unfair. There are plenty of USE servers, so many that you can just keep looking for one that would be closer to the EU boys and provide a better ping. USE servers can range between 160 to 110 ping for me, and I'm from the UK.

Looks like xFin got swindled. If I was GG I'd be apologizing for my **** and offering a rematch

[Ezili]

2. MSI proceeds to pick the worst USE server when they host. They then ***** about the server to the Gosu Gamer Admins until the admins say roll for the server.

So just to understand this -

The claim is that MSI intentionally picked a bad USE server when they hosted so they would have much worse ping than xFin in the first game so that they could play on a better server the next time around after complaining to admins?

Why would they intentionally give themselves a big disadvantage in the first game, just so they could even it up later by having better ping?

[JAH`]

I don't understand how anyone can back up MSI right now. It's just outrageously unfair. There are plenty of USE servers, so many that you can just keep looking for one that would be closer to the EU boys and provide a better ping. USE servers can range between 160 to 110 ping for me, and I'm from the UK.

Looks like xFin got swindled. If I was GG I'd be apologizing for my **** and offering a rematch

^ya seriously man and thats a better ping then i get i average like 170s-190s on USE

[ktN]

Why do people ***** on MSI?

The persons to blame in this case, is Gosugamers. They have a set of rules for their tournaments which should be followed, if the rules are not followed, competitive teams should complaint to the Gosugamers management for bad organization and admins who does not follow the set rules.

As mentioned by others, when pinging @ the USE server, MSI was at an 250 MS vs xFin's 60. It is obvious that a competitive team will not accept playing at such MS. There were probably other USE servers available, which should have been chosen, but as MSI was told by the Gosugamers admin to roll for a server, this was done and game was played on a EU server.

Another thing is *****ing about HB advantage. I mean, the map has been the same in DotA for a couple of years. There has been a few juke spot changes, but the basics of the map has been the exact ****ing same. If there had been a Hellbourne advantage, Icefrog would have changed it. He has not changed it, he has not commented on this which tells us = There is _NO_ Hellbourne advantage even if you want there to be.

It all comes down to what team plays the best. If you cannot "call" a Kongor attempt or derail a Kongor attempt, then you probably would'nt win the game anyways. It's a matter of timing the right kill, not just sneak through from the Hellbourne side, be 100% missing for two minutes without the Legion noticing.

The only thing we can hope for, is better connection through the seas (which is already in the works. Infact, scientist have begun working on a 60 ms traveltime from London -> New York). Untill then, Group Stages should be played per continent & Quarter Finals, Semi Finals & Finals should be played on LAN's only. There is plenty of room to have sponsored teams such as EQ, SK-Gaming, KDe-Gaming, MSI etc. etc. to have the finals of a tournament played on a LAN (Dreamhack for example) without much trouble.

There is no way to justify having EU players play on USE servers, or USW players play on EU servers. There is just a too big latency between the continents and it will never be fair. Games can be won by being outpicked/outplayed, but there will always be an latency advantage for one of the teams and that's the end of the discussion.

Organize finals at already announced LAN's and play group stages on each continent beforehand.

[WaRDeN]

no msi is probably to blame since they probably intentionally picked a high ping use server, which is actually a usc server, joined the game, and paraded their pings in front of an admin

[ktN]

no msi is probably to blame since they probably intentionally picked a high ping use server, which is actually a usc server, joined the game, and paraded their pings in front of an admin


You say probably, unless you have some facts to prove your claim - why blame?

Everyone will do their most to higthen their chances to win, especially in a tournament with these price money. If Fnatic can overcome a rule by waving a high MS flag infront of an Gosugamer admins face, then so be it. Fnatic played their cards right, Gosugamers failed and swindled xFin by not following the set of rules.

xFin should contact Gosugamers & S2Games about the situation to either come up with a solution and stop any future sponsorships from S2Games to Gosugamers if they do not follow the set of rules.

If I were xFin i would go as far and stop S2Games from even supporting the 40k they currently have put to Gosugamers as a payment for this tournament, as Gosugamers are unrealiable as a tournament host, and they are unable to provide a fair playinground for their contestors.

Don't hate the player, hate the game. Fnatic was legit all the way through, Gosugamers were not.

[V1PeR]

absolutely agreed. The match was not played under fair conditions. Good sportsmen would have given HB to the team with the latency disadvantage.

But if even the admins fail setting the conditions straight i guess you can not blame the team that profitted from it.

[JilaX]

It's not like MSI didn't have exactly the same thing done to them by Bkid. (Actually, that was even worse.) Same with EMPR.

As for xFin being USW. If their avg ping to USE is 60, then they're not exactly located in Cali, are they?

In an earlier thread about this, someone posted a world map of how the internet is connected, and the capacity of the lines. Very relevant for this topic.
Why not just compare pings for UK first?

[DocSmoothJew]

I already spoke with Sn3yking and Sender about this last night. It was a mistake by the admin that was overseeing it. I was busy at the time with TEAM vs PYRO (who were also arguing about servers) and no one asked me, but I've enforced the USW vs EU -> USE rule all the time. Sorry to everyone offended by this mistake, but it is just that, a mistake. I assure you our admin that handled this wasn't trying to swindle xFin.

My two cents on the whole server thing, I'm an Israeli and since I'm sure most of you know little to nothing about our ISPs, they're ****. I personally have a 1.5mbps connection and I can pretty easily handle playing USE, so the people in UK/Germany/Sweden etc. complaining about pings to USE are either trying to swindle or have ISPs with the worst routing to the US I've ever seen (not realistic).

PS- The admin in question is actually American, so he probably if anything would empathize more with USW ping to EU over EU ping to USE.

[Happyfish]

ty for clearing things up Doc GL with rest of the Event