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KARTlK
10-11-2010, 05:09 PM
So, let's all assume we don't stack any of our camps and kill each camp.

Can someone draw a graph or just tell me using maths which is better on Lego :legi: for jungling? I remember a similar post on DA or PD or maybe these forums I have no idea, but I'd like to find out again. (Afair buckler hatchet is far superior).

man_guy
10-11-2010, 10:12 PM
5+ creeps attacking you versus single target damage when you're a hero depending on the aoe procs.

Sku1l
10-12-2010, 03:28 AM
Ok its not a graph but i tryed to do some math to show how bucler give more benefit.


At lvl 1 Legionaire does 49-53 with 0.71 attack/sec
The lvl 1 spin has 17% chance to do 100 damage AoE

2 bucler =84% chance to block 20 incoming damage
1 bucler = 60% chance to block 20 incoming damge
1 hatchet = +32% of nomal damage ( so basically give [32*51/100] 16.32 more damage)


So lets compare the bonus each build give :

Build_A :2Bucler =24% chance to block 20 damage

Build_B :1bucler + hatchet = +16.32 to normal damage


Thats pretty hard to compare 2 really different things so ill take some constants (sorry if i take them out of my rectum but i think thats the easier way to calculate it)

So Build_A will give you more survivability and build_B will give you more auto attack damage output.

So lets say that legionaire die after 50 attack of 20 damage(each with 1 sec cooldown) and he have 1000 hp (0 armor , 0 hp regen).

With build A he has ~1/4 chance to block 20 damage.
So 12.5 (13) more hit will be needed to kill him.
With those 13 attack he will have 17% to spin (that he would not with Build_B).
So with Build_A he does (13*17/100) 2.2 more spins ­~200 more damage out of him spins


If the creeps need 50 attacks to kill with 1 sec attack speed it takes 50 second to kill legionaire.

So he can attack for 50sec with 0.71 attck speed with a bonus of 16.32 .
50*0.71*16.32 = 579.36 damage bonus with the normal attack
To that we must substrac the bonus attack he would be able to do with the survivability he'd has with Build_A .
So 13 more seconds to attack with build_A (51 damage *0.71attack speed *13 sec =470.73)
579.36-470.73 = 108.63 damage bonus with hatchet


Lot of variable has not been taken "for real" such as :
- legionaire's armor
- legionaire's hp regen
- legionaire's max hp
- different creep attack speed
- different creep damage
- more then 1 creeps per creep spawn
- the fact that damage by spins is AoE VS hatchet is single target

To me double sheild > hatchet + sheild (but thats strategy discution)
If i did mistakes in my calculation or if you have better way to calculate it feel free to correct me :)

ILovePie
10-12-2010, 04:51 AM
I find double shield > Hatchet + shield as well.

Early game jungling for Legio comes from spin procs when you stack camps multiple times. Greater chance of blocking 20 damage really helps on stacked easy camps which helps get your levels quicker :) I feel legio attacks too slow anyways for hatchet to be of much use outside of triple stacking legion (which you don't really need it either).

yyr_
10-12-2010, 05:42 AM
Also the math gets bad because the stronger the unit the weaker the effects of shield. Also the stronger units have less in each spawn so are less effected by spin as they output less total attacks.

Sku1l
10-12-2010, 06:05 AM
Also the math gets bad because the stronger the unit the weaker the effects of shield. Also the stronger units have less in each spawn so are less effected by spin as they output less total attacks.

Have you a better way to calculate it ?

The only way i can see we could found it out is trying it in practice mode with both build. the build that would kill more creep being the better 1 . But because of the sheild and spin is based on a % we have to get rid of the "luck variable" so more then 1 try with each build will be necessary .

yyr_
10-12-2010, 08:27 AM
imo if your not going HotBL just get the +6 agi shield. Costs 50 more but increases your chance to 100% and gives you ~1 armour and a little attackspeed.

Ill think about a way to calculate it, but it will be a dirty approximation

Vahn
10-12-2010, 08:50 AM
the iron shield:IronShield: only has 60% chance to block on creep attacks, 100% chance on heroes.

Benny0
10-12-2010, 11:44 AM
I go double bucker every time. The majority of your damage comes from spins, not from right clicking, unless you're terribly unlucky.

M72TheLaw
10-12-2010, 11:55 AM
1 Iron Buckler + Mass hp regen is by far better then double buckler.

2 Pots 1 runes 1 minor totem 1 buckler = 593 gold and you never having to worry about leaving jungle or ferrying more regen, regardless of how bad your spin procs are. You aren't going to be building double helm anyway (or maybe you are really stupid) and you don't have the need of an iron shield so you'd be wasting that extra 250 gold for the 2nd shield. But a great spin proc rate you'll have a pot (or sometimes 2) left after hotbl anyway and you also have backup regen during farm to gank the lanes without worrying about slowing yourself down to a crawl when you return to the jungle. That and you won't be sitting in jungle at 1/4 hp when some guy from the other team decides to walk in and one shot you with a level 2 nuke.

*Edit* Oh and dude that attempted to theory craft out the hatchet vs shield debate, you forgot that whirl has a cooldown and thus does not have a proc chance during that 17% whirl.

ElementUser
10-12-2010, 12:55 PM
There's not really a practical & accurate way to do this because there are too many factors, most of them have already been mentioned in that thread.

Generally, it comes down to survivability vs. damage output.

pwn_U_fast
10-12-2010, 01:19 PM
i thought two iron bucklers didnt stack anyway?

or does is that when they are different types of shield, the best one takes priority?

Sku1l
10-12-2010, 02:28 PM
*Edit* Oh and dude that attempted to theory craft out the hatchet vs shield debate, you forgot that whirl has a cooldown and thus does not have a proc chance during that 17% whirl.

the cooldown of the spin is 1 second . if you took time to read i put a constant 1 sec attack speed to the creeps auto attack and make them attack each separately (used that to determine the damage out of build _B too) .That to get less variable and be able to do a calculation w/o a very complex formula .

Ill try later today with each build how far/creeps/gold i can get with either of those 3 build before dieing. Ill try to do it 5 times with each of the 3 build to get ''reproducible'' numbers

Jerrypower
10-12-2010, 02:28 PM
one buckler (250 gold) one guardian ring (175 gold) 1 hp pot (100 gold) = 525 gold
then minor totems or save, (i make the guardian into a ring of the teacher after the helm and boots, and why? beacuse that little manaregen have saved me countless times aswell as the armour makes it easier to jung)
but then i eigther doublestack or tripplestack all the time and using terrifying strike to reduce their dmg and then get ALOT of spins off.

this tactics have gained me some 400 GPM legio games, due a sick earlygame farm :D

ElementUser
10-12-2010, 02:31 PM
They do stack, using the probability formula 1 - (1-x)(1-y)...., where x & y are the separate percentage chances to block.

And yes if 2 block factors proc at the same time, the highest one overrides

M72TheLaw
10-12-2010, 03:27 PM
the cooldown of the spin is 1 second . if you took time to read i put a constant 1 sec attack speed to the creeps auto attack and make them attack each separately (used that to determine the damage out of build _B too) .That to get less variable and be able to do a calculation w/o a very complex formula .

Ill try later today with each build how far/creeps/gold i can get with either of those 3 build before dieing. Ill try to do it 5 times with each of the 3 build to get ''reproducible'' numbers

Well without a complex formula it just straight won't factor correctly. You'd have to add in the average attack speed of each nuet.

KSlidz
10-12-2010, 04:00 PM
why not get an iron shield (ithink the name is right, the agi shield) its comprable price 100% chanse armor and atk spd you are either going to sell the other iron buckler or not have as good as mitigation with the hatchet

if you go iron shield and get a hotbl (im not saying to go for this if you dont start off with iron shield) you will have 30% chance to block 20 and 70% chance to block 60. not bad in my book please tell me why im wrong (im sure this isnt cost efficient

Sku1l
10-12-2010, 06:40 PM
why not get an iron shield (ithink the name is right, the agi shield) its comprable price 100% chanse armor and atk spd you are either going to sell the other iron buckler or not have as good as mitigation with the hatchet

if you go iron shield and get a hotbl (im not saying to go for this if you dont start off with iron shield) you will have 30% chance to block 20 and 70% chance to block 60. not bad in my book please tell me why im wrong (im sure this isnt cost efficient


Like vahn said to Yrr upper the 100% block is only vs hero damage (60% vs creeps)

Anderbad
10-12-2010, 06:42 PM
why not get an iron shield (ithink the name is right, the agi shield) its comprable price 100% chanse armor and atk spd you are either going to sell the other iron buckler or not have as good as mitigation with the hatchet

if you go iron shield and get a hotbl (im not saying to go for this if you dont start off with iron shield) you will have 30% chance to block 20 and 70% chance to block 60. not bad in my book please tell me why im wrong (im sure this isnt cost efficient
The Iron Shield only does that against attacks from heroes. Other attacks have the usual 60% chance.

Sku1l
10-12-2010, 06:50 PM
tried it for real and i simply cant get reproducibility .

With the build of shield+shield+ hp pot:

Sometimes i get out of first camp (orange) with almost no life sometimes i can kill the yellow farm w/o have to use my hp pot. But at all try I die vs the second orange camp I fight .

Tried out with the build of shield + hatchet + hp pot : same result

It really depend on the creep i fight and on the spins momentum (if it proceed 2-3 times against a minotaur alone it is much less efficient than vs the vagabond team (as they are many and with different attack speed and lower damage than the Catman/Minotaur ).

Stacking the creeps really does a huge difference . I think if you plan to stack creeps and use terrifying charge the survivability build is way better . But at lvl and with no stacks it doesn't change that much when we compare how far we can go

Ayevee
10-12-2010, 06:52 PM
You're that deadwood that I raped as MQ rofl.

Sku1l
10-12-2010, 06:56 PM
Well without a complex formula it just straight won't factor correctly. You'd have to add in the average attack speed of each nuet.

I wonder how to make a formula calculating the chance to spin vs the number of unit left in the camp vs the chance to proceed shield vs the creep's attack speed vs the creep's damage vs legionnaire's hp vs legionnaire's hp regen vs legionnaire's armor vs legionnaire's damage vs legionnaire's attack speed .
Then recalculate for a different build.

Even if you would come up with a formula i bet it would contain way too much variable to even be able to get out with a solution.

yyr_
10-12-2010, 07:04 PM
I may have made it obvious that i never buy an iron shield...

Llama
10-12-2010, 11:08 PM
Someone do 2 sheild vs 1sheild+armour ring+totem

Sku1l
10-13-2010, 05:13 AM
Someone do 2 sheild vs 1sheild+armour ring+totem

For this we compare sruvivability vs survivability , so we can states constants.

Legionnaire' starting life = 625
Legionnaire' starting armor = 2.8

Build_A : bonus from 2 shield +1hp pot= 84% to block 20 damage

Build_C : bonus from 1shield + the ring + 2totem +1hp pot = 60% to block 20 damage +2 armor +2X +1 to all stats (+0.28 armor + 38 hp )


check for original formula (thx to malle him work make me look like im intelligent)


EHP= effective Hp
a= armor
Ev= evasion
Bc= chance to block
Bd= damage blocked if Bc triggers
U= Unreduced damage
At= Armor type damage factor (neutral to hero is 0.75=At)


Build A Formula:
EHP = HP * (1 + 0.06*a) / ( (1 - Ev) * (1 - (Bc*Bd)/(U*At)) )
EHP(build_A) = 625*(1+0.06*2.8) / ( (1-0) * (1 - ( 0.84 * 20) / (U * 0.75)))
EHP(build_A) = 625 *(1.168) / ((1) * (1 -(16.8) /(0.75*U)
EHP(build_A) = 730 / (1 -(16.8) /(0.75*U)


Build B Formula:
EHP = HP * (1 + 0.06*a) / ( (1 - Ev) * (1 - (Bc*Bd)/(U*At)) )
EHP(build_C) = (625+38) * (1 + 0.06*(2.8+2.28)) / ( (1 - 0) * (1 - (0.6*20)/(U*0.75)) )
EHP(build_C) = 663 *(1.3048) / ((1)* (1-(12)/(0.75*U)
EHP(build_C) = 865.0824 / (1-(12)/(0.75*U)


Variable added for easier calculation:
XA = 16.8/ (0.75*U)
XC = 12/ (0.75*U)


So now that we have both build's Effective HP simplified formula we need creeps damage

For build A : (green= better with that build / Yellow = can't be calculated with that formula because the creep damage is < Bd / Red = better with the other build )
Min Max Average
Catman = 52 - 59 55.5 *0.75 = 41.25 XA=0.407272 1-XA=0.592728 EHP(A)=1231.59
Catman leader = 65 - 73 69 *0.75 = 51.75 XA= 0.324637
1-XA=0.675363 EHP(A)=1080.90
Dragon = 23 - 30 26.5 *0.75 = 19.875 XA=0.845283
Dragon Master = 64 - 108 86 *0.75 = 64.5 XA=0.260465 1-XA=0.739535 EHP(A)=987.10
Ebula = 20 - 24 22 *0.75 =16.5 XA=1.018181
Goatar = 18 - 21 19.5 *0.75 =14.625 XA=1.148717
Hunter = 29 - 33 31 *0.75 = 23.25 XA=0.722580 1-XA = 0.27742 EHP(A)=2631.38
Minotaur = 65 - 73 69 *0.75 = 51.75 XA=0.324637 1-XA= 0.675363 EHP(A)=1080.90
Ogre = 24 - 27 25.5 *0.75= 19.125 XA=0.878431
Ogre Leader = 24 - 27 25.5 *0.75= 19.125 XA=0.878431
Predasaur = 35 - 42 38.5 *0.75= 28.875 XA=0.581818 1-XA= 0.418182 EHP(A)=1745.65
Predasaur Crusher= 79 - 87 83 *0.75= 62.25 XA=0.269879 1-XA=0.730121 EHP(A)=999.83
Screacher = 20 - 25 22.5 *0.75=16.875 XA=0.995555
Skeleton = 16 - 17 16.5 *0.75=12.375 XA=1.357575
Skeleton Boss = 32 - 36 34 *0.75= 25.5 XA=0.658823 1-XA= 0.341177 EHP(A)=2139.65
Snotterboss = 24 - 27 25.5 *0.75 =19.125 XA=0.878431
Snottling = 11 - 13 12 *0.75=9 XA=1.866666
Vulture Lord = 66 - 74 70 *0.75=52.5 XA=0.32 1-XA= 0.68 EHP(A)=1073.52
Werebeast = 14 - 15 14.5 *0.75=10.875 XA=1.54482
Werebeast Enchanter= 30 - 37 33.5 *0.75=25.125 XA=0.668656 1-XA= 0.331344 EHP(A)=2203.14
Wolf = 21 - 24 22.5 *0.75=16.875 XA=0.955555
Wolf Commander = 30 - 33 31.5 *0.75=23.625 XA=0.711111 1-XA = 0.288889 EHP(A)=2526.922



Now with Build C:
(green= better with that build / Yellow = can't be calculated with that formula because the creep damage is < Bd / Red = better with the other build )

Min Max Average
Catman = 52 - 59 55.5 *0.75 = 41.25 XC=0.290909 1-XC=0.709091 EHP(C)=1219.98
Catman leader = 65 - 73 69 *0.75 = 51.75 XC=0.231884
1-XC=0.768116 EHP(C)=1126.2392
Dragon = 23 - 30 26.5 *0.75 = 19.875 XC
Dragon Master = 64 - 108 86 *0.75 = 64.5 XC=0.186046 1-XC=0.813954 EHP(C)=1062.81
Ebula = 20 - 24 22 *0.75 =16.5 XC
Goatar = 18 - 21 19.5 *0.75 =14.625 XC
Hunter = 29 - 33 31 *0.75 = 23.25 XC=0.516129 1-XC = 0.483871 EHP(C)=1787.83
Minotaur = 65 - 73 69 *0.75 = 51.75 XC=0.231884 1-XC= 0.768116 EHP(C)=1126.23
Ogre = 24 - 27 25.5 *0.75= 19.125 XC
Ogre Leader = 24 - 27 25.5 *0.75= 19.125 XC
Predasaur = 35 - 42 38.5 *0.75= 28.875 XC=0.415584 1-XC=0.584416 EHP(C)=1480.25
Predasaur Crusher= 79 - 87 83 *0.75= 62.25 XC=0.192771 1-XC=0.730121 EHP(C)=1184.85
Screacher = 20 - 25 22.5 *0.75=16.875 XC
Skeleton = 16 - 17 16.5 *0.75=12.375 XC
Skeleton Boss = 32 - 36 34 *0.75= 25.5 XA=0.470588 1-XC=0.529412 EHP(C)=1634.04
Snotterboss = 24 - 27 25.5 *0.75 =19.125 XC
Snottling = 11 - 13 12 *0.75=9 XC=1.866666
Vulture Lord = 66 - 74 70 *0.75=52.5 XC=0.228571 1-XC=0.771429 EHP(C)=1121.40
Werebeast = 14 - 15 14.5 *0.75=10.875 XC
Werebeast Enchanter= 30 - 37 33.5 *0.75=25.125 XC=0.477611 1-XC= 0.522389 EHP(C)=1656.01
Wolf = 21 - 24 22.5 *0.75=16.875 XC
Wolf Commander = 30 - 33 31.5 *0.75=23.625 XC=0.507936 1-XC = 0.492064 EHP(C)=1758.06


So in conclusion 6 creeps are better to fight with build_A , and 5 creeps are better to fight with build_C.

According to the trend , the closer the ennemy unit's damage is from 20 the more efficient the build_A is . So even if we can't calculate it now we could say that build_A is more efficient then Build_C for all yellow creeps.

In that post i didnt calculated the "terrifing charge" which split damage in half (but boots AS) . Bcause only the damage is count to compare the 2 build , using "terrifiing charge" on creeps increase considerably the double sheild build efficency.

Myth busted : 2sheild +hp pot > 1sheild+armor ring+totem+totem+hp pot

M72TheLaw
10-13-2010, 10:27 AM
I wonder how to make a formula calculating the chance to spin vs the number of unit left in the camp vs the chance to proceed shield vs the creep's attack speed vs the creep's damage vs legionnaire's hp vs legionnaire's hp regen vs legionnaire's armor vs legionnaire's damage vs legionnaire's attack speed .
Then recalculate for a different build.

Even if you would come up with a formula i bet it would contain way too much variable to even be able to get out with a solution.

That is kind of the point, you aren't going to easily achieve a measurement of the effectiveness of builds on Lego. It would be better to run as a simulation that loops a few hundred or thousand times and comes out with the average result.

That being said a simulation wouldn't work either without using the same mersenne twister rng that HoN uses, as the actual averages would be pretty far off using default rng libraries.

Don't bring it up any more though as I might get too sidetracked and try to make it. :Insanitarius:

Delerord
10-13-2010, 12:08 PM
For this we compare sruvivability vs survivability , so we can states constants.

Legionnaire' starting life = 625
Legionnaire' starting armor = 2.8

Build_A : bonus from 2 shield +1hp pot= 84% to block 20 damage

Build_C : bonus from 1shield + the ring + 2totem +1hp pot = 60% to block 20 damage +2 armor +2X +1 to all stats (+0.28 armor + 38 hp )



EHP= effective Hp
a= armor
Ev= evasion
Bc= chance to block
Bd= damage blocked if Bc triggers
U= Unreduced damage
At= Armor type damage factor (neutral to hero is 0.75=At)


Build A Formula:
EHP = HP * (1 + 0.06*a) / ( (1 - Ev) * (1 - (Bc*Bd)/(U*At)) )
EHP(build_A) = 625*(1+0.06*2.8) / ( (1-0) * (1 - ( 0.84 * 20) / (U * 0.75)))
EHP(build_A) = 625 *(1.168) / ((1) * (1 -(16.8) /(0.75*U)
EHP(build_A) = 730 / (1 -(16.8) /(0.75*U)


Build B Formula:
EHP = HP * (1 + 0.06*a) / ( (1 - Ev) * (1 - (Bc*Bd)/(U*At)) )
EHP(build_C) = (625+38) * (1 + 0.06*(2.8+2.28)) / ( (1 - 0) * (1 - (0.6*20)/(U*0.75)) )
EHP(build_C) = 663 *(1.3048) / ((1)* (1-(12)/(0.75*U)
EHP(build_C) = 865.0824 / (1-(12)/(0.75*U)


Variable added for easier calculation:
XA = 16.8/ (0.75*U)
XC = 12/ (0.75*U)


So now that we have both build's Effective HP simplified formula we need creeps damage

For build A : (green= better with that build / Yellow = can't be calculated with that formula because the creep damage is < Bd / Red = better with the other build )
Min Max Average
Catman = 52 - 59 55.5 *0.75 = 41.25 XA=0.407272 1-XA=0.592728 EHP(A)=1231.59
Catman leader = 65 - 73 69 *0.75 = 51.75 XA= 0.324637
1-XA=0.675363 EHP(A)=1080.90
Dragon = 23 - 30 26.5 *0.75 = 19.875 XA=0.845283
Dragon Master = 64 - 108 86 *0.75 = 64.5 XA=0.260465 1-XA=0.739535 EHP(A)=987.10
Ebula = 20 - 24 22 *0.75 =16.5 XA=1.018181
Goatar = 18 - 21 19.5 *0.75 =14.625 XA=1.148717
Hunter = 29 - 33 31 *0.75 = 23.25 XA=0.722580 1-XA = 0.27742 EHP(A)=2631.38
Minotaur = 65 - 73 69 *0.75 = 51.75 XA=0.324637 1-XA= 0.675363 EHP(A)=1080.90
Ogre = 24 - 27 25.5 *0.75= 19.125 XA=0.878431
Ogre Leader = 24 - 27 25.5 *0.75= 19.125 XA=0.878431
Predasaur = 35 - 42 38.5 *0.75= 28.875 XA=0.581818 1-XA= 0.418182 EHP(A)=1745.65
Predasaur Crusher= 79 - 87 83 *0.75= 62.25 XA=0.269879 1-XA=0.730121 EHP(A)=999.83
Screacher = 20 - 25 22.5 *0.75=16.875 XA=0.995555
Skeleton = 16 - 17 16.5 *0.75=12.375 XA=1.357575
Skeleton Boss = 32 - 36 34 *0.75= 25.5 XA=0.658823 1-XA= 0.341177 EHP(A)=2139.65
Snotterboss = 24 - 27 25.5 *0.75 =19.125 XA=0.878431
Snottling = 11 - 13 12 *0.75=9 XA=1.866666
Vulture Lord = 66 - 74 70 *0.75=52.5 XA=0.32 1-XA= 0.68 EHP(A)=1073.52
Werebeast = 14 - 15 14.5 *0.75=10.875 XA=1.54482
Werebeast Enchanter= 30 - 37 33.5 *0.75=25.125 XA=0.668656 1-XA= 0.331344 EHP(A)=2203.14
Wolf = 21 - 24 22.5 *0.75=16.875 XA=0.955555
Wolf Commander = 30 - 33 31.5 *0.75=23.625 XA=0.711111 1-XA = 0.288889 EHP(A)=2526.922



Now with Build C:
(green= better with that build / Yellow = can't be calculated with that formula because the creep damage is < Bd / Red = better with the other build )

Min Max Average
Catman = 52 - 59 55.5 *0.75 = 41.25 XC=0.290909 1-XC=0.709091 EHP(C)=1219.98
Catman leader = 65 - 73 69 *0.75 = 51.75 XC=0.231884
1-XC=0.768116 EHP(C)=1126.2392
Dragon = 23 - 30 26.5 *0.75 = 19.875 XC
Dragon Master = 64 - 108 86 *0.75 = 64.5 XC=0.186046 1-XC=0.813954 EHP(C)=1062.81
Ebula = 20 - 24 22 *0.75 =16.5 XC
Goatar = 18 - 21 19.5 *0.75 =14.625 XC
Hunter = 29 - 33 31 *0.75 = 23.25 XC=0.516129 1-XC = 0.483871 EHP(C)=1787.83
Minotaur = 65 - 73 69 *0.75 = 51.75 XC=0.231884 1-XC= 0.768116 EHP(C)=1126.23
Ogre = 24 - 27 25.5 *0.75= 19.125 XC
Ogre Leader = 24 - 27 25.5 *0.75= 19.125 XC
Predasaur = 35 - 42 38.5 *0.75= 28.875 XC=0.415584 1-XC=0.584416 EHP(C)=1480.25
Predasaur Crusher= 79 - 87 83 *0.75= 62.25 XC=0.192771 1-XC=0.730121 EHP(C)=1184.85
Screacher = 20 - 25 22.5 *0.75=16.875 XC
Skeleton = 16 - 17 16.5 *0.75=12.375 XC
Skeleton Boss = 32 - 36 34 *0.75= 25.5 XA=0.470588 1-XC=0.529412 EHP(C)=1634.04
Snotterboss = 24 - 27 25.5 *0.75 =19.125 XC
Snottling = 11 - 13 12 *0.75=9 XC=1.866666
Vulture Lord = 66 - 74 70 *0.75=52.5 XC=0.228571 1-XC=0.771429 EHP(C)=1121.40
Werebeast = 14 - 15 14.5 *0.75=10.875 XC
Werebeast Enchanter= 30 - 37 33.5 *0.75=25.125 XC=0.477611 1-XC= 0.522389 EHP(C)=1656.01
Wolf = 21 - 24 22.5 *0.75=16.875 XC
Wolf Commander = 30 - 33 31.5 *0.75=23.625 XC=0.507936 1-XC = 0.492064 EHP(C)=1758.06


So in conclusion 6 creeps are better to fight with build_A , and 5 creeps are better to fight with build_C.

According to the trend , the closer the ennemy unit's damage is from 20 the more efficient the build_A is . So even if we can't calculate it now we could say that build_A is more efficient then Build_C for all yellow creeps.

In that post i didnt calculated the "terrifing charge" which split damage in half (but boots AS) . Bcause only the damage is count to compare the 2 build , using "terrifiing charge" on creeps increase considerably the double sheild build efficency.

Myth busted : 2sheild +hp pot > 1sheild+armor ring+totem+totem+hp pot

holy ****...

conclusion: buy w/e u want =}

Sku1l
10-13-2010, 06:23 PM
holy ****...

conclusion: buy w/e u want =}

I think you missed the point that creeps in yellow (damage under20) can not be calculated with that formula and i pretty think 2 sheild will be better as you'r gonna get hit 16% of the time VS 40% (rest of the time you get 0 damage). To that i do not think the bonus armor/hp can not overcome that 'damage doge'

yyr_
10-13-2010, 09:11 PM
+1 internet to sku1l

dfhgidufg
10-15-2010, 06:54 PM
I could be wrong but I imagine when you stack camps (which you should be doing) hatchet becomes nearly worthless and 2 shields become a lot more valuable.

dfhgidufg
10-15-2010, 06:57 PM
The reason why hatcher is so worthless is because you WANT all the creeps to be alive and then to die at the same time. It's faster for lego to kill 4 creeps than 3 creeps, killing one with auto attack slows down the speed at which you kill the others.

Fenald
10-15-2010, 07:55 PM
wait why is legionnaire being picked?

V_Bear
10-15-2010, 08:21 PM
wait why is legionnaire being picked?

^^ this exactly. I only get Lego if I random him. That being said wat are the best starting items with 853gold?... Lifetube? 1 x shield and then early lifetube?

dfhgidufg
10-15-2010, 08:22 PM
going lifetube first is a terrible idea, you need the shields to jungle. I'd go 2x bucker+2x health pot and get lifetube quick

Lego is an amazing pub hero, you should be top level/farmer in the game if you know how to jungle.

Noxulus
10-15-2010, 08:23 PM
get 2 shields, stack small camp, profit

dfhgidufg
10-15-2010, 08:30 PM
you don't have to stack the small camp anymore

you can do a stacked orange camp at level 2 with 2 shields and 1 point into charge

you might not get both of the boss creeps before you have to back out but you'll get more gold doing that

dfhgidufg
10-15-2010, 08:30 PM
if you stack the small camp just going it once at 1 minute imo