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Mittsies
08-30-2009, 12:25 PM
http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/2193623/img/Heroes-of-Newerth/Zaff.png
Drawn in MS Paint

ZAFF, THE FROST PALADIN

STR - 19 + 2.4 (Primary)
AGI - 19 + 1.9
INT - 14 + 1.4
Attack Type - Melee
Movement Speed - 290
Roles: Tank, Carry, Initiatior

Exiled from a desert kingdom that became corrupted with power, Zaff seeks a new place of holy righteousness within the Legion. His Zealous efforts are blessed by the powerful goddess Shiva -- and he aims to destroy Hellbourne, a recently affiliate with the kingdom that he believes is the cause of the corruption.

Process of Designing Zaff
Skip ahead if you'd like -- just a lot of discussion about this hero and why I chose the ability set that I did. The concept I was going for with Zaff is an Ursa Warrior with a twist. Ursa is a fun hero, no doubt, but often he has nothing to offer for his team. He specializes in tanking and rapidly getting hits off on a single target -- but the only way for him to be really efficient is to farm quite a lot. Until he gets some vladmir's, some basic life items, a dagger/lothar's, etc. he is virtually useless to his team. My goal was to try and remake Ursa, still following the same concept, but to allow him to be a great asset to his team.

The first thing I wanted to do was turn his Slow into something easier to get into a teamfight. Ursa's Earthshock is damn difficult to use and not worth it since it only slows, not stuns. Slardar and Centaur can make much better use of their stomps due to the higher reward of stunning. Omniknight's Degen Aura came into mind and I really wanted to stick with it. I later on decided to integrate Fury Swipes into this ability as well -- it feels fitting to add a "Freezing Attack".

Zeal is more or less a clone of Overpower -- I couldn't change the base ability too much or else I might lose the same Ursa-like feel. I decided to add a situational effect -- if you focus all 6 hits on a single target you can also steal some armor; instead you can choose to constantly change targets while using Zeal and get a bonus from it. I figured this was a nifty little trick that gives Zaff a little bit of a skill curve. If you have 2 enemy heroes and you alternate in-between them you'll overall deal 30% more damage per swing, which can add up to about 150% bonus damage if done correctly. Takes a bit of skill and timing but it's well worth it in the hands of an experienced player.

Ursa's ultimate felt a little... awkward. I never really liked it -- it just didn't feel nice to use. So instead I made Zaff have an ability similar to Ursa's ultimate as a regular ability. Instead of HP I based it off of armor which I think opens a whole new book of strategies. Imagine Jereziah+Zaff for the instant +75 bonus damage during Sol's Blessing, or Demented Shaman's ultimate? The numbers are something to play with to avoid people from getting 4 platemails every game -- but I'm fairly satisfied with this addition.

Lastly is the ultimate. I had a very difficult time finding something that would work well with this hero as a whole, and I've thought of having an initiative ability many times, but finally I decided on a charge+AoE. The numbers will be tweaked as seen appropiately by the developers but for the most part I just wanted Zaff to be a huge part of the team. Charge in, slow down the whole enemy team by an instant 35% and proceed to taking down his first target. My only fear is that the ability would be too similar to Pharaoh's hook, but I think the range differences are a huge separation factor. Also Zaff has no form of stunning, where Pharaoh has two stuns and his wall of mummies -- so I wasn't too worried about the Charge being stronger than his hook.

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ABILITIES

[Arctic Strike] (Inspired by Ursa's Fury Swipes)
http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/2193625/1024/Heroes-of-Newerth/Zaff-freezeaura.png
(Passive) Adds a freezing attack that slows movement and adds physical damage to each strike. 50% of bonus damage from this ability will be splashed onto enemy units within 325 Radius.
Bonus damage lasts for 5 seconds.
Level 1 - Slows movement by 10% (doesn't stack); Adds 4 Damage per hit (stacks).
Level 2 - Slows movement by 13% (doesn't stack); Adds 8 Damage per hit (stacks).
Level 3 - Slows movement by 16% (doesn't stack); Adds 12 Damage per hit (stacks).
Level 4 - Slows movement by 20% (doesn't stack); Adds 16 Damage per hit (stacks).
[Zeal]
http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/2193630/480/Heroes-of-Newerth/Zaff-zeal.png?v0
Fiercely attacks nearby opponents within range with bonus damage and attack speed. Each target cannot be hit more than 1/2/3/3 Times.
Level 1 - 3 hits. Grants 400% attack speed and 25% bonus damage.
Level 2 - 4 hits. Grants 400% attack speed and 50% bonus damage.
Level 3 - 5 hits. Grants 400% attack speed and 75% bonus damage.
Level 4 - 6 hits. Grants 400% attack speed and 100% bonus damage. Mana Cost: 75
Cooldown: 12 seconds

[Icewing Shield] (Inspired by Ursa's Enrage)
http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/2193627/1024/Heroes-of-Newerth/Zaff-icewing.png
When activated, Zaff will unlock the power within his legendary shield, increasing his armor and increasing his base damage based on his current armor. In addition, stunning and slowing effects will only last half as long while the shield is activated. Bonus damage from armor-increasing abilities can only grant a maximum of 1 armor per second the buff has been applied to you.
Lasts 7 seconds.
Level 1 - Grants 4 Armor and adds damage equal to 50% of armor. (10 Damage per 20 Armor)
Level 2 - Grants 6 Armor and adds damage equal to 100% of armor. (20 Damage per 20 Armor)
Level 3 - Grants 8 Armor and adds damage equal to 150% of armor. (30 Damage per 20 Armor)
Level 4 - Grants 10 Armor and adds damage equal to 200% of armor. (40 Damage per 20 Armor)
Mana Cost: --
Cooldown: 30 seconds

(NOTE: Stunning and Slowing effects do not include: Grappling effects like Pollywog and Electrician, DoT-effects like Wretched Hag and Slither, etc. but do include things such as Glacius's Slows/Disables, Hammerstorms Stun, Madman's Barrel Roll, etc.)

[Shiva's Charge]
http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/2193629/1024/Heroes-of-Newerth/Zaff-shivacharge.png
(Ultimate)
Fearlessly charges towards a point, slamming his shield into the first enemy hit and unleashing a devastating Frost Nova around him that damages and slows enemies' movement by 15%. If no target is hit the Frost Nova will not be unleashed, the cooldown will be refreshed by 25, and 50/100/150 mana will be refunded.
1000 Charge Range
600 Nova Radius
Level 1 - Deals 125 Nova Damage + 100% of current armor in bonus damage to initial target.
Level 2 - Deals 225 Nova Damage + 200% of current armor in bonus damage to initial target.
Level 3 - Deals 325 Nova Damage + 300% of current armor in bonus damage to initial target. Mana Cost: 125/175/225
Cooldown: 65/55/45 seconds

(Note: The bonus damage from armor applies only to the INITIAL TARGET and isn't added to the nova around him.

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Scrapped abilities:


[Freeze Aura] (Inspired by Omniknight's Degen Aura + Ursa's Fury Swipes)
http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/2193625/1024/Heroes-of-Newerth/Zaff-freezeaura.png
(Passive) A chilling aura that slows down nearby enemies' movement and attack speed and adds a frost-attack to your weapon. Enemies hit by the frost attack will take extra damage and be slowed by an additional 5% for 1.5 seconds.
325 Radius.
Bonus damage lasts for 5 seconds.
Slows attack speed by 10% at all levels.
Level 1 - Slows movement by 10%; Adds 4 Damage per hit.
Level 2 - Slows movement by 13%; Adds 8 Damage per hit.
Level 3 - Slows movement by 16%; Adds 12 Damage per hit.
Level 4 - Slows movement by 20%; Adds 16 Damage per hit.
[Zeal] (Inspired by Ursa's Overpower)
http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/2193630/480/Heroes-of-Newerth/Zaff-zeal.png?v0
Zaff's zealous rage increases his attack speed by 400% for several attacks. Increases your armor by 1 and decreases the targets armor by 1 per swing. If Zaff attacks a different target it deals 130% damage for that one swing.
Lasts 15 seconds or until maximum hits have been reached.
Level 1 - 3 hits.
Level 2 - 4 hits.
Level 3 - 5 hits.
Level 4 - 6 hits.
Mana Cost: 75
Cooldown: 12 seconds-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

CHANGELOG
August 30th, 2009: Posted the Suggestion.
August 31st, 2009: Lowered damage cap on Icewing Shield from 75 to 60 and made it scale up per level.
September 2nd, 2009: Improved Icewing Shield slightly.
September 2nd, 2009: Zeal steals armor on each hit instead of all at once on the last swing.
September 8th, 2009: Made several changes as follows
Icewing Shield's maximum changed from 20/35/50/60 to 25/50/75/100
Icewing Shield's bonus from armor changed from 75/100/125/150% to 50/100/150/200%.
Icewing Shield's duration reduced from 15 to 7.
Freeze Aura no longer adds slow per hit, and is instead a flat rate of 10%.
Freeze Aura's damage per hit increased from 2/4/6/8 to 4/8/12/16.
Freeze Aura's radius decreased from 700 to 325.
Shiva's Charge now adds an armor-based damage effect to the initial target. This will not effect units hit by the "nova" afterwards.
September 21st, 2009: Made several changes as follows
Icewing Shield's bonus to armor changed from 2/4/6/8 to 4/6/8/10.
Removed the bonus damage capacity from Icewing Shield and added a special mechanic.
Replaced Freeze Aura and Zeal with new abilities (Due to Kraken and Scout taking the abilities that I had used).
October 27th, 2009: Reworded Zeal to remove confusion.
November 10th, 2009: Made it more clear that the slow on Freeze Aura does not stack per hit.

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Thanks for reading up. Remember that all numbers will be changed and balanced if the developers decide to include this hero, as a lot of people seem to forget this.

Kylskap
08-31-2009, 08:25 AM
have to say i like the concept, especially the partial return of omniknights aura and the ulti that is a great initiator and the refunding when you do not hit anything making it a more than half decent blink. the stun reduction duration is also nice! unique and helps against the most annoying thing in HoN.

the things I'm uncertain about is however the armor thing, 125% of armor in damage? you rarely have more than 30-40 armor iirc making it quite lackluster? the armor gain is also quite low, just compare to similar abilites like hammerstorms aura that gives 5armor permanently to everyone around him or predators iron skin granting 12 armor and magic immunity.
also under the rare circomstance you would have Jereziah around his SoL's blessing increase armor with 9999 or so making it horrendously overpowered for the duration.

those were my initial thoughts, i do hope to see this hero implemented tho!

edit: and as ignorant as I am i missed the bottom line already covering the number parts, my bad! some number balancing and looking into the SoL's blessing issue this hero is good to go!

08-31-2009, 08:38 AM
Agreed with kylskap, the Icewing Shield won't work this way.
It would be better if it be HP based like original ursa.

Kylskap
08-31-2009, 09:52 AM
Agreed with kylskap, the Icewing Shield won't work this way.
It would be better if it be HP based like original ursa.

I'm not sure the hp based version of the skill could work considering this hero is STR based rather than old Ursa that is AGI. I'm afraid that it would be too powerful.
I also like the armor concept, just needs some more thought to it making it balanced ^^

Mittsies
08-31-2009, 01:51 PM
Alright well here's some real numbers to look at with Icewing Shield. First of all it costs no mana to use, lasts 15 seconds, and reduces the duration of snaring/stun effects by half which is already a pretty nice. It also grants 5 flat armor. Imagine if you were level 14 and had just recently maxed the ability out (since the other two would usually take priority). You'd have about 6 base armor at this point, and probably another 5 from Enhanced Marchers or Abyssal Skull. This brings you up to 16 -- which is exactly 20 bonus damage. If you hit someone with all 6 swings of Zeal you steal an additional 6 armor -- bringing the damage up to about 27~28.

You'll be REALLY utilizing this small bit of damage during mid-game, plus with the armor/disable reduction this is a pretty solid ability. If, by end game, you have Enhanced Marchers (1550g)(+5 Armor), Insanitarius (2850g)(+5 Armor), Daemonic Breastplate (5550g)(+15 Armor), and Abyssal Skull (2050g)(+5 Armor) -- you'll have roughly 40 ~ 45 Armor like you mentioned which is still 50 damage and is pretty damn nice.

Also, about Sol's Blessing. It's not necessarily too strong because it's just pushing him up to his +75 damage maximum; but after looking it through I think I should lower the damage cap slightly and make it scale with level so you cannot get the maximum bonus from Sol's blessing if you have the ability at level 1. Just remember there are plenty of "specific combos" that are crazy powerful like Puppet Master + Legionnaire, Electrician + Swift Blade, Devourer + Jereziah, etc. so I'm not too worried.

Thanks for your comments, Kylskap.

Mittsies
09-07-2009, 10:24 PM
Bump.

_Archangel_
09-07-2009, 10:59 PM
I think the shield is too weak, strangely enough. 20-30 bonus damage at level 14 is pretty negligible. Ursa focuses on burst DPS, which is pretty heavy due to the way Enrage works (Scaling into lategame as your HP increases) and Fury Swipes stacking 24 damage a hit. However this hero's burst damage is far less so because a lot of the Fury Swipe's Damage has been taken out for extra slow instead and armor doesn't scale nearly as well into lategame as HP does. Also stacking armor items has far less benefit than stacking HP items due to the way armor stacks (Diminishingly).

Suggestions:

* Remove slow per hit on Freeze Aura, and add some extra slow (10-15%) onto his ultimate, so he won't need it.
* Buff the damage per hit on Freeze Aura
* Increase the % of his armor that he gains in damage on Icewing Shield, and increase the cap. Currently this doesn't scale well into lategame as other carries' damage abilities. For example, compare this to Night Hound's backstab, which adds 100% of his agility, and is passive - scales much much better, and agility scales much better than armor does.

Hippie
09-07-2009, 11:11 PM
Ultimate seems VERY underpowered - that looks more like a normal skill to me.

The aura... well, Omni's Degen is amazing enough already, lowering the move% loss but adding bonus damage... still seems overpowered. Perhaps instead of combining the two you could change it to give every melee hero the slow attack but remove the base slow from the aura? Though giving every melee on your team a free frostwolf skull also seems a little OP... I'm not sure.

Interesting rework of Enrage. Not sure how much I like it, since armor really tapers off in its effectiveness the more you get - stacking armor for damage isn't nearly as effective as stacking HP. An increase in HP is always that much of a bonus, while an increase in armor is worth less and less the more you have. Perhaps change this to factor in magic armor as well - that way the hero has more options for item builds (since against teams with heavy nukers he'd be rendered nearly useless due to his need to build physical armor rather than magic armor to keep his damage up).

Zeal is essentially overpower with a nice little bonus if you can micro and are using it to clear creeps. I have no problem with giving this guy some extra farming power.

Overall... he's iffy, but viable with some tweaks. Withholding my vote for now.

Cogzwell
09-07-2009, 11:16 PM
well... i must say i actually like it, with a little bit of work and actually some partial changing to abilities like Shiva's Charge which you might wanna change some of its buffs to go with other abilities, and Icewing shield seems a little underwhelming, maybe if you put shiva's charge's mana regen on that (not the same amount though), and 10% attack speed slow might be a little much on a passive, i'd say scale that down as well as maybe reducing the aura's range

Rentaromon
09-07-2009, 11:20 PM
theme: frost warrior, we already got one.. might be a problem.

1st: Thats a lot of passive slow, this guy would make it near immpossible to escape with just 1 hit.

2nd: Zeal synergises with 1st spell,normally thats good but that means enemy would have 42% slow in 2 seconds and could not escape it.

3rd: interesting. Armor that increases damage. i like it.

ulti: Its a decent power, especially since it can also be used as a escape power for less price. i like it. any way to make it a running shield smash so having 3rd up would make it do more damage or something?

overall the only thing holding him back is 1st power. just rebalance it and add a slow cap and it would be good.

Mittsies
09-08-2009, 03:30 PM
I think the shield is too weak, strangely enough. 20-30 bonus damage at level 14 is pretty negligible. Ursa focuses on burst DPS, which is pretty heavy due to the way Enrage works (Scaling into lategame as your HP increases) and Fury Swipes stacking 24 damage a hit. However this hero's burst damage is far less so because a lot of the Fury Swipe's Damage has been taken out for extra slow instead and armor doesn't scale nearly as well into lategame as HP does. Also stacking armor items has far less benefit than stacking HP items due to the way armor stacks (Diminishingly).

Suggestions:

* Remove slow per hit on Freeze Aura, and add some extra slow (10-15%) onto his ultimate, so he won't need it.
* Buff the damage per hit on Freeze Aura
* Increase the % of his armor that he gains in damage on Icewing Shield, and increase the cap. Currently this doesn't scale well into lategame as other carries' damage abilities. For example, compare this to Night Hound's backstab, which adds 100% of his agility, and is passive - scales much much better, and agility scales much better than armor does.
I have taken all of your suggestions for the most part and added them. My major issue with Icewing Shield I'm trying to avoid is the direct synergy between Zaff and Jereziah's Ultimate allowing him to instantly get his maximum damage boost. I'm beginning to think it's sort of unavoidable unless I add in some sort of direct note such as "is not affected by Sol's Blessing" or a complex mechanic like, "bonuses from other abilities will take into account 1 armor per second". I will have to see later on.


Ultimate seems VERY underpowered - that looks more like a normal skill to me.

The aura... well, Omni's Degen is amazing enough already, lowering the move% loss but adding bonus damage... still seems overpowered. Perhaps instead of combining the two you could change it to give every melee hero the slow attack but remove the base slow from the aura? Though giving every melee on your team a free frostwolf skull also seems a little OP... I'm not sure.

Interesting rework of Enrage. Not sure how much I like it, since armor really tapers off in its effectiveness the more you get - stacking armor for damage isn't nearly as effective as stacking HP. An increase in HP is always that much of a bonus, while an increase in armor is worth less and less the more you have. Perhaps change this to factor in magic armor as well - that way the hero has more options for item builds (since against teams with heavy nukers he'd be rendered nearly useless due to his need to build physical armor rather than magic armor to keep his damage up).

Zeal is essentially overpower with a nice little bonus if you can micro and are using it to clear creeps. I have no problem with giving this guy some extra farming power.

Overall... he's iffy, but viable with some tweaks. Withholding my vote for now.
The ultimate is probably a lot stronger than you think. It's essentially a free blink dagger -- imagine that on Ursa. The only downside is that you're sacrificing the potential of a steroid ability as your ultimate; which I'm fine with since Zaff is aimed at being much more team orientated than Ursa Warrior was.

I'm a bit confused at what you mean by "Though giving every melee on your team a free frostwolf skull also seems a little OP". Keep in mind that the bonus damage/slow on hit is given only to Zaff and not his teammates; I hope I didn't confuse you here.

Thanks for your comments though! Let me know if you see anything else out of place.


well... i must say i actually like it, with a little bit of work and actually some partial changing to abilities like Shiva's Charge which you might wanna change some of its buffs to go with other abilities, and Icewing shield seems a little underwhelming, maybe if you put shiva's charge's mana regen on that (not the same amount though), and 10% attack speed slow might be a little much on a passive, i'd say scale that down as well as maybe reducing the aura's range
I've buffed Icewing/Shiva's Charge a bit, but I think the 10% AS reduction is not too dangerous, but the range should be definitely nerfed now that I think about it. 700 is a bit crazy.


theme: frost warrior, we already got one.. might be a problem.

1st: Thats a lot of passive slow, this guy would make it near immpossible to escape with just 1 hit.

2nd: Zeal synergises with 1st spell,normally thats good but that means enemy would have 42% slow in 2 seconds and could not escape it.

3rd: interesting. Armor that increases damage. i like it.

ulti: Its a decent power, especially since it can also be used as a escape power for less price. i like it. any way to make it a running shield smash so having 3rd up would make it do more damage or something?

overall the only thing holding him back is 1st power. just rebalance it and add a slow cap and it would be good.
The only Frost Guy we have is Glacius -- and he's on Hellbourne. I liked the idea of a "running shield smash" so I gave Shiva's a damage boost based on armor. Check it out and see what you think.

Isin
09-08-2009, 04:09 PM
Somebody was enjoying their pen tablet. xP

crayze
09-08-2009, 04:35 PM
Ice Shield is a fun ability, but I think the duration is a bit too short. If I'm understanding correctly, the idea is to Ice Shield, Shiva's Charge to initiate and damage, and then use the stored up Zeal (that you precasted) to quickly down one guy and up your armor. Then the degen aura finishes it off. I'd make the duration 10s on Ice Shield.

Rentaromon
09-08-2009, 05:13 PM
The only Frost Guy we have is Glacius -- and he's on Hellbourne. I liked the idea of a "running shield smash" so I gave Shiva's a damage boost based on armor. Check it out and see what you think.

just becouse he is on the other team dosent mean you can have the same theme. if we had 2 of each hero but one is evil that would be boring as hell.

Im glad you liked my idea. And since he is highly defence based he is different from glacius.

Dimose
09-08-2009, 06:12 PM
First off, I'm going to assume that the bonus damage from the freezing aura doesn't stack like Ursa's did. If it does, this is way over powered. Having him slow what ever target he attacks is kind of redundant, and you are basically making Accursed with an aura stacked on top of his passive ability.

As for the ult, I don't know what it is about people putting in things that shorten cool downs if you miss, but I mean if you screw up, well... you screw up. Cool down should not be adjusted due to missing.

Rentaromon
09-08-2009, 09:47 PM
As for the ult, I don't know what it is about people putting in things that shorten cool downs if you miss, but I mean if you screw up, well... you screw up. Cool down should not be adjusted due to missing.
its so you can also use it to escape.

Mittsies
09-09-2009, 01:57 AM
Ice Shield is a fun ability, but I think the duration is a bit too short. If I'm understanding correctly, the idea is to Ice Shield, Shiva's Charge to initiate and damage, and then use the stored up Zeal (that you precasted) to quickly down one guy and up your armor. Then the degen aura finishes it off. I'd make the duration 10s on Ice Shield.
Precisely. I could probably buff and/or nerf the duration, but the main concept won't change so I don't think it's too big of a deal. I guess I'll bring it up to about 10 in the meantime, though.


just becouse he is on the other team dosent mean you can have the same theme. if we had 2 of each hero but one is evil that would be boring as hell.

Im glad you liked my idea. And since he is highly defence based he is different from glacius.
Think Crystal Maiden and Lich. I'm just saying, there's nothing wrong with the same type of theme as long as they're completely different.


First off, I'm going to assume that the bonus damage from the freezing aura doesn't stack like Ursa's did. If it does, this is way over powered. Having him slow what ever target he attacks is kind of redundant, and you are basically making Accursed with an aura stacked on top of his passive ability.

As for the ult, I don't know what it is about people putting in things that shorten cool downs if you miss, but I mean if you screw up, well... you screw up. Cool down should not be adjusted due to missing.
The damage stacks just like Ursa's does, and the more I look at it, the more it seems "redundant" but the idea is to have a freezing attack in addition to your freezing aura. Also his ultimate is not intended to reward players for missing, it's intended to allow you to use it to get around (like a pseudo-blink) or back away from a fight without wasting your ultimate. It's not a completely necessary mechanic -- it just gives it much more versatility and allows players to think of other uses than straight-up initiation.

Dimose
09-10-2009, 02:45 PM
Alright, i'll buy that :)

dandylion
09-10-2009, 02:56 PM
I really really like the ultimate. Something unique there. T-Up overall.

Mittsies
09-10-2009, 06:25 PM
I really really like the ultimate. Something unique there. T-Up overall.
Sweet, thanks. I think the Ultimate would be really fun to use for both escaping and initiating.

Sidorio
09-10-2009, 09:33 PM
These pictures do not equal awesome. I'm sorry. Also I didn't vote because I just came for the pictures...

Rentaromon
09-10-2009, 10:07 PM
yeh the pictrues are kind of bad =P also your first line of text has to do with the picture you removed.

Mittsies
09-10-2009, 11:28 PM
yeh the pictrues are kind of bad =P also your first line of text has to do with the picture you removed.
I didn't remove any pictures; you're mistaken somehow.

Rentaromon
09-10-2009, 11:32 PM
I didn't remove any pictures; you're mistaken somehow.
hmm it disapeared for a wile, its back now thow.

Mittsies
09-12-2009, 05:49 AM
Bumpin' this shït, yo.

archon_
09-12-2009, 06:33 AM
My $0,02.
Considering an item build based on armor, it would probably go something like:

Core:
Enhanced Marchers
Demonic Breastplate (which is kinda wasted with his 400% atk.speed skill)
Frostfield Plate (good for mana, spell and armor gives damage)
Symbol of Rage / Whispering Helm

Abyssal Skull
Astrolobe
Insanitarius
(Ring of Sorcery)

IMO this hero would be very item dependant, if you want to max damage through armor. (Might need further buffs?)

Manawise he doesn't really need much as he has 2 passives, and 1 active skill costing 75 mana.

I'm a bit curious what role he would have aswell. He would be a tank based very much on armor, bit low health making him vurnerable to spells?

Mittsies
09-13-2009, 12:20 AM
He'd have relatively low HP since he's spamming armor -- so something like Whispering Helm/Abyssal Skull + Insanitarius would be a great combo to stable yourself then grabbing lots of armor/damage items afterwards.

`Milky
09-19-2009, 07:26 AM
Thumbs-up.
One thing I'd like to mention in my opinion, the degen + the percentage damage gain is a little too imba. I mean, they are slowed while every hit landed increases. But it's only my opinion, you may disagree. Other than that, good job :)

deathdawn
09-19-2009, 07:30 AM
I'd honestly say that the Icewing shield and Shiva's Charge need to be buffed.

You could probably increase the armor multiplier, other than that, Zeal has now been taken up by scout, and The freezing Aura is now taken up by Kraken, you should probably change the skills.

Anyways I really liked the concept and values before the recent patch. Still a T-Up from me just needs a little tweaking with the new releases.

Mittsies
09-19-2009, 09:06 AM
Zeal has now been taken up by scout, and The freezing Aura is now taken up by Kraken, you should probably change the skills.

Sadly, yeah. I kind of thought "oh, gee, great. Pretty much ALL of my suggestions are void due to this." Notice I also have a scout remake thread that is currently in Top Suggestions. Pretty irritating, honestly. Oh well.

deathdawn
09-19-2009, 10:25 AM
Well at least they took your scout.. and merged it with your paly :D.

Anyways I was considering using changing your first skill into

[Arctic Strike] (Inspired by Omniknight's Degen Aura + Ursa's Fury Swipes)
http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/2193625/1024/Heroes-of-Newerth/Zaff-freezeaura.png(change logo of course)
(Passive)
Zaff imbues his sword with the ice causing his sword to generate a freezing gale after every blow.

Every attack, Zaff will slow the his target and all foes behind it. The direct target of Zaff will take extra damage per hit.

200 Range (Cone Shaped)
100-200 Radius
slows attackspeed by 10 % at all levels

Level 1 - Slows movement by 10%; Adds 4 Damage per hit.
Level 2 - Slows movement by 13%; Adds 8 Damage per hit.
Level 3 - Slows movement by 16%; Adds 12 Damage per hit.
Level 4 - Slows movement by 20%; Adds 16 Damage per hit.

[Frostbite] (Inspired by Ursa's Overpower)
http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/2193630/480/Heroes-of-Newerth/Zaff-zeal.png?v0(change logo of course)
(Active)
Zaff's immense control over Ice makes his next several attacks feel like nothing to his foes, making their nerves go numb. He can then withraw the cold from their bodies causing them to feel pain.

Zaff's attacks apply Frostbite to the target for 5 seconds, each new hit adds a stack to frostbite and renews the duration. Zaff drains 1 armor per hit.

Frostbite Effects
Damage Prevented (Only from Zaff)

Subskill - Withraw
All the Damage prevented from Zaff's previous attacks are released unto the target.

Lasts 15 Seconds or until the maximum number of hits has been reached.

Level 1 - 3 hits.
Level 2 - 4 hits.
Level 3 - 5 hits.
Level 4 - 6 hits.

The purpose of this skill is loosely based around deception as the opponent will not know if he is going to die or not. This would effective if it generated another health bar showing what would happen if you were to use Withraw. (This means that you know his possible HP yet the opponent doesn't)


(another possibility is changing all damage of Withraw to magic damage and reducing the number of possible hits - 1/2/3/4)


Note: if you consider the time gap, you may cast withraw upto 5 seconds after the last hit Zaff does on the opponent

Mittsies
09-21-2009, 08:51 AM
I replaced the two abilities. Thanks for your input, deathdawn. Your idea for Arctic Strike is actually pretty nice, so I made something similar and used the same name; however the zeal idea is not exactly what I was looking for. The new Zeal I created allows him to retain his "burst" feel and actually have even more versatility.

Lomina1
09-21-2009, 09:09 AM
What a waste of ursa trademark abilities.

Mittsies
09-21-2009, 09:37 AM
What a waste of ursa trademark abilities.
What waste of space that could have been better used for constructive input or positive comments. Thanks.

Mittsies
10-15-2009, 11:02 AM
Bump

Mittsies
10-23-2009, 12:27 PM
Double Bump.

Lolyness
10-24-2009, 04:18 AM
but you cannot attack the same target twice in a row. <------ wtf D:

does that mean that if you're 1v1 against any1 ur f**ked?

I don't think you need to make uber imba skills with uber imba flaws, its better to make a balanced one.

kaboo_
10-25-2009, 12:25 PM
just one thing: "goddess Shiva" - shiva (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shiva) is god not goddess
edit: another fail in the story: "Exiled from a desert kingdom ..." -> he comes from the desert kingdom with icy spells? it seems somewhat odd to me

Mittsies
10-27-2009, 09:48 AM
but you cannot attack the same target twice in a row. <------ wtf D:

does that mean that if you're 1v1 against any1 ur f**ked?

I don't think you need to make uber imba skills with uber imba flaws, its better to make a balanced one.
Ah sorry I worded that TERRIBLY. I mostly meant to say you couldn't hit a target more than a specific number of times. I've changed it to make it less confusing, hope that helps.



just one thing: "goddess Shiva" - shiva (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shiva) is god not goddess
edit: another fail in the story: "Exiled from a desert kingdom ..." -> he comes from the desert kingdom with icy spells? it seems somewhat odd to me
He was like "man it's ****ing hot around here" and then he's all like "shiiiiit maaaan I'll just go learn up some ice magic, yo." then he cools himself off and the desert kingdom is like "no lol dats forbidden ur gay" and he gets exiled.

I'm not here to write you stories. All storyline-esque things are placeholders to give you a general outline of the hero's theme so you can better understand the abilities.

GoldenF2P
10-30-2009, 12:40 PM
Antarctica is considered a desert because there's hardly any water (in liquid form)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antarctica

Anyway, a free frostwolf skull is ridonk. Slows like arachna's cost mana to use or like jerry's proc only once every so often. A repeating slow with no mana cost that you can cast on multiple targets with added damage is just too damn good. The reason Ursa wasn't horrendously overpowered was because the stun hit multiple targets yes, but it didn't stay for very long. Just long enough to destroy the single guy. You're thinking of this hero as being an initiator and being able to kill two people by himself, if you add a team with some active abilities, you've insta-gimped 3 heroes at least.

The armor damage buff issue has come up repeatedly, but you keep ignoring people. This just isn't a good way to buff the hero. The best part about ursa was the fact that she started out with the same amount of str as she did agi, you could build her either way. She was a hero that could easily gank early game because of her skills, also very easily farm with her skillset (lol@7 min rosh average) and that turned her into a VERY hard hero to kill at the end game phase. You'd have to keep her on lockdown otherwise she'd decimate your heroes. Just do what they did in DotA and let the player decide whether or not to tank.

The ult seems okay if it did less damage, 350 +% damage to an AOE that also slows is too good, also get rid of the returned mana and CD thing, if you missed you done ****ed up, and if you used it to get away, the CD and mana is worth your life.

Just tone down the slows, cuz that's the thing that's bugging me the most and you'd have a viable hero.

gogo wall of text

Mittsies
11-10-2009, 11:56 PM
Antarctica is considered a desert because there's hardly any water (in liquid form)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antarctica

Anyway, a free frostwolf skull is ridonk. Slows like arachna's cost mana to use or like jerry's proc only once every so often. A repeating slow with no mana cost that you can cast on multiple targets with added damage is just too damn good. The reason Ursa wasn't horrendously overpowered was because the stun hit multiple targets yes, but it didn't stay for very long. Just long enough to destroy the single guy. You're thinking of this hero as being an initiator and being able to kill two people by himself, if you add a team with some active abilities, you've insta-gimped 3 heroes at least.

The armor damage buff issue has come up repeatedly, but you keep ignoring people. This just isn't a good way to buff the hero. The best part about ursa was the fact that she started out with the same amount of str as she did agi, you could build her either way. She was a hero that could easily gank early game because of her skills, also very easily farm with her skillset (lol@7 min rosh average) and that turned her into a VERY hard hero to kill at the end game phase. You'd have to keep her on lockdown otherwise she'd decimate your heroes. Just do what they did in DotA and let the player decide whether or not to tank.

The ult seems okay if it did less damage, 350 +% damage to an AOE that also slows is too good, also get rid of the returned mana and CD thing, if you missed you done ****ed up, and if you used it to get away, the CD and mana is worth your life.

Just tone down the slows, cuz that's the thing that's bugging me the most and you'd have a viable hero.

gogo wall of text
Thanks for your comments. I always appreciate in-depth feedback.

Although, first of all, you're vastly overestimating his Freeze Aura. Is 20% really a free frost-wolf skull? You might also be confused thinking that the slow stacks, but only the damage stacks (Like Ursa's swipes). I'll rewrite this to make it more clear.

The idea of armor versus straight-up HP was intended for 2 reasons: to give him far less survivability than Ursa had in exchange for some stronger abilities (like his ultimate, for example) and, of course, to add a new element to the game for some direct synergies with other armor-granting heroes. I haven't been ignoring people either; if you look at change log you'll see I've consistently tinkered with it and I've thought about it plenty.

As far as the ultimate, I'll leave the mana-refund mechanic for now because it's intended for both getting around and initiating -- I wanted to give players an incentive to use it for other purposes rather than just being a generic initiation ability (as I already feel we have too many of these in HoN right now); but I will agree that even without the refund it would be worth the CD/Mana to save your life.

Once again, thanks for the feedback.

Winterschuh
11-11-2009, 12:30 AM
id give reply, but the post above said anything i would, and you told its better your way
thats like "dude number are overpowered" - "i know, i like it opwerpoered"

Xanotos
11-11-2009, 12:57 AM
yeah quite cool. Seems to be a bit op with all the damage additives

Mittsies
11-25-2009, 05:56 AM
bump

Shadowwarp
11-25-2009, 06:20 AM
I can't really say much, iAN AVERAGE AMOUNT OF balance which is something i totally look into when i see new heroes. You make him seem fun and totally cool and he's ice themed too a plus for me, hope you succeed with him.
------------------------

YOU WANT SUPPORT?!?! IL GIVE YOU SUPPORT!!!!!

Empath (Semi-Tank/Powerful healer/Very-Heavy Support) (http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?t=45834)

matthewsia
01-17-2010, 08:56 AM
love it. ursa warrior ftw. \m/

edit: just an idea but, to make it more fair, i think arctic strike should be an attack modifier. or else it would be overpowered to stack it with other items. ;)

Mittsies
02-26-2010, 02:28 PM
Bump

RobinEA
03-07-2010, 12:20 PM
ursa much?

SLASHER`
03-07-2010, 06:07 PM
Very impressive MS paint work. I like the hero - all abilities. T-UP.

Kelendros
03-07-2010, 06:27 PM
T-up from me. I like the mechanics I'm seeing.

War_Mech
03-07-2010, 06:44 PM
Nice work, a really unique hero no doubt.