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failtard
11-07-2009, 09:46 AM
I am a newcomer to the HoN and DotA scene, but having played a lot of Star Craft: Brood War in the past, I find this whole backdooring whine to be completely devoid of logic. Now, HoN is not your normal RTS, but the analogy seems close enough.

It's a competitive game, with the goal of destroying the opposing side's main building. Any way you can do that without exploiting bugs or using 3rd party cheats is valid, amirite? To me it seems like banning backdooring is akin to not allowing 5 pool rushes in Brood War (aka 6 zergling rush or what have you, depending on how well you know BW lingo - earliest possible useful rush strategy in any case). Or not allowing unit drops in peon lines to kill the opponent's economy in any random RTS that uses the farming unit mechanic. Those are all completely valid strategies with a number of ways that you can use to defend against them. Yes, it might require you to play differently vs certain opponents, but so what? Adapting strategies to what you're facing should be a must in any strategy based game.

From what I have seen of HoN so far, you cannot really go and kill barracks on the opposing side alone without being pretty damn farmed. And if you are, then the opposing team should be too (or you should already have been winning). If they are, they can easily strike back, win a 5v4 and burn half your base to the ground while you're trying to sneak kill one set of barracks by your lonesome. It seems like the only reason that backdooring is frowned upon is that people are playing for "epic team fights"(?) instead of to win the matches. Which is something like "Sim City playing" in RTS games; Just building a big, big base and army instead of trying to actually mess up your opponent's day and get the upper hand. The only issue I can agree with is that if some heroes are way, way too effective at backdooring alone, maybe they should be balanced and brought in line with other similar heroes.

Now, if you could just run in and kill your opponent's base with no creep support before the 15 minute mark or something like that, then it would be a problem. But that doesnt really happen, does it? From what I can see here, this is more or less only about late game, with farmed carries killing stuff. And then I cannot see the problem. It would be nice if someone with actual high level league play experience could explain why it's sometimes banned there still, because it seems like a sort of customary thing that has no real logic behind it given the more developed strategies and metagame that you will have after a while. In a comparison with SC:Brood War, 5 pool rushing is not very common today. It's a novelty move that happens now and then, but by no means defines the game. I'd wager backdooring would go the same way if people were actually forced to have to learn to deal with it. Ofc just like rushes in BW, backdooring seems a good way to make lazy and tunnel visioned people rage. :)

Chaganaga
11-07-2009, 10:01 AM
DotA is nothing like Starcraft. NOTHING

failtard
11-07-2009, 10:07 AM
DotA is nothing like Starcraft. NOTHING

That doesnt really explain much, thank you. It's extreme microcentric strategy instead of macrocentric, but why is the analogy bad when it comes to issues like niche strategies?

Auron
11-07-2009, 10:43 AM
Backdooring isn't a glitch or bug it's a strategy, if you don't take precautions or let a hero get farmed up so much/make a game last so long then why shouldn't the people who are "able" to backdoor do it?

If people want to play competitive/casually without backdooring define some rules before you start the game. For the sake of moaning ill place a poll for a No Backdoor game option.

azzaman333
11-08-2009, 12:37 AM
IMO, if the devs wanted to prevent bd'ing, they would have.

InnerSpike
11-08-2009, 01:02 AM
IMO, if the devs wanted to prevent bd'ing, they would have.
And if enough players want it prevented, they will.
Its not a matter of "its a glitch stop it!" or "thats cheating!", its a matter of how people want to play the game. If you SERIOUSLY don't know how easy it is to BD in HoN, or DotA, then you really don't know how to play a good push character. Used correctly, no ammount of teleports will do anything. The person will simply run away upon seeing the teleport animation. If you haven't seen a good primarily BD, then please don't post here.
Oh and can someone please give some examples, matchID's and replays, as to how to counter a BD? So many people have suggested it, yet to this day never seen it done.

InnerSpike

Baltimus
11-08-2009, 01:13 AM
IMO, if the devs wanted to prevent bd'ing, they would have.

so what youre saying is that the devs wants a game which is partly unbalanced, has bugs and has buggy servers from time to time?


also on the bd'ing matter
it seems alot of ppl thinks bd'ing is a strategy and therefor shouldn't be disallowed, i see their point, however why would't it be a problem to make it an advanced option? it would allow all who dislike bd'ing to play it without it and therefor removing any whines about it, making you life easier allowing you to bd all you want...

WindKing
11-08-2009, 01:42 AM
uhm...if it is really late game...like 60 mins above...backdooring is allowed....

not for desperate winning...because its pretty boring...when that time reaches...

Decency
11-08-2009, 01:54 AM
Implement the DotA regeneration changes and allow full backdooring. Will 100% solve the problem as far as I'm concerned.

Without the regeneration on towers, solo backdooring is way too powerful and ruins games. With the regeneration, this is only possible if the other team fails to counter it, but still allows you to directly push after winning a teamfight without having to wait for creeps, which is stupid.

Best of both worlds: copy DotA.

RedJustice
11-08-2009, 02:16 AM
I agree with the idea that bringing in dota's regeneration on towers being backdoored will solve most of these problems.

The only reason i don't like backdooring right now is because teleporting doesn't fully counter it. In dota if you didn't take the tower down your backdooring failed so a tp easily countered it.

But right now in hon a teleport gives heroes like scout or really any hero with high attack speed and an easy get away move the ability to hit the tower and only take down 1/2 the towers health and run away. You can't consider the backdoor attempt a fail because well one more half hearted attempt will drop it easily where as in dota the tower would go back to where it was and the backdoor would have been a complete failure

Overall you can't really complain too much about backdooring now cause the game is still in beta, if S2 decides to release the game without some type of addition to make people commit to backdooring then people can complain but i don't see that happening

Gazille
11-10-2009, 08:45 AM
There are much games that a Scout who got fed and his team is getting raped starts do BDing...

I guess it's so annoying, you must have always a homecoming stone or a post haste. And when you start to tp what he does? run away... and you lost time and a stone, of course you won't be there forever, and he tries to BD again... it's very annoying and I agree, it can ruin a game!

We need an anti-bd system :]

ain
11-10-2009, 10:11 AM
Close this thread already.