Wanting to cast again, need a crash course in current metagame

[chapy]

So I played some games yesterday at a LAN center with some friends (see HoN Sundays (http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?t=163513)) and it might have gotten me into HoN again. I have a steady day job so I can cast in the evenings now but as I've made it known in the past, I don't believe in casting unless I can play/understand the highest level of HoN.

Yesterday I picked puppet and solo'd mid against Tundra... ya, wasn't expecting that, apparently that is common.

I also have noticed that MSI has popularized the trilane too?

What heroes (new/old) are recent additions to the metagame?

Items? (Chalice much?)

Aside from reading over the forums I plan on watching replays and spectating/playing some IH with the top players until I am confident I know wtf is going on around here.

Any articles I should be aware of that go over the current metagame either?

Thanks everyone,
Chapy

[Kolapz]

http://www.sk-gaming.com/content/30585-The_HoNicle_Evolution

Here you go my dear friend. I would love to see you cast again. The article mentions some trends in the current metagame, but probably not as much into detail as you'd like it to. Hope it helps though.

Basically, trilanes with a melee carry that make sure the carry gets as much farm as possible while the rest of the team still ganks as much as possible. It can be either really aggressive or really turtly kinda, depending on whether the opposing team just concedes against the trilane or fights them head on with a trilane of their own.

Also, some top tier picks that entered the scene since you left are probably Andro, Voodoo, Valkyrie, Panda, Maliken, Dark Lady, Doctor Repulsor and Tundra. Engineer, Nymphora (maybe not as much since last patch?) and Devourer (since the last patch or two) are pretty much always banned.

Ganking mid heroes like Thunderbringer, Tundra, Doctor, Witch Slayer have been seen more than the usual ranged carry suspects, Soul Stealer and Forsaken Archer being the exceptions (you don't see much of any other ranged carries anymore).

Accursed, Demented Shaman and Soul Reaper are never used anymore.

Madman was a top tier pick until recently, but then fell of the radar a bit. Valk and Bubbles have gained in popularity as a side solo lane option because of their escape mechanism amongst other things.

Pestilence not seen anymore either. Magmus and Behe are still picked often enough.

Chalice is considered OP, will be nerfed probably. Striders are really popular on gankers/supports. Frostburn and Shieldbraker not seen nearly as much as before on ranged carries, replaced by Geo+frostwulf skull combination. That's about it concerning items that I can think of at the moment.

I don't claim to know everything, if someone noticed a mistake please do correct me.

[YawningAngel]

Ohai Chapy. In a short tl;dr:
Trilanes are OP
MSI and LOAD are the best
The heroes used tend to be those which are useful early game (WS/Glac/Andro/Voodoo Jester/blah) for trilanes
Hard carries are now kinda useful in trilanes (TDL/Chronos)
Semi carries are still good
Blood chalice is OP
Geobane got nerfed but is still good

[Shaunnn]

@kolapz i wouldnt say pestilence has dispeared completely, he is picked up a bit by msi and nvd a bit especially in conjunction with witch mid as early blinks on those 2 is pretty devastating

[chapy]

Has there been much solo mid tiny since the introduction of trilanes? Seems like a solo mid tiny would be able to gank the trilane with relative ease thanks to a severe level difference.

[theoutsider]

There hasn't, the only melee that got played was Tundra.
My theory is that people are afraid to pick up melee heroes for the mid lane since cr0wtail (get it?) made bottle ferrying on almost every mid hero popular (even if its just 2 or 3 times, full bottle always makes a difference).
Its no fun to be a melee against someone who spam harasses you constantly with his nukes and always has full health while pushing the lane constantly to your tower so you have trouble moving from the lane or even starting offensive maneuvers against the hero you are facing

[nephroid]

Pretty much what is stated above, but just wanted to say "wb". I remember seeing your casting way back when we had no replays and you had to download 1 GB avi files for 1 match of HoN. :D Great casts.

[Kwaidah]

Has there been much solo mid tiny since the introduction of trilanes? Seems like a solo mid tiny would be able to gank the trilane with relative ease thanks to a severe level difference.
chu is here to save the day bro
http://hon.esportmedia.com/video/2010/09/12/cyber-sports-network-tournament-grand-finals-loa-4
(yesterday)

[Kolapz]

@kolapz i wouldnt say pestilence has dispeared completely, he is picked up a bit by msi and nvd a bit especially in conjunction with witch mid as early blinks on those 2 is pretty devastating

Picked once or twice in 100 games is not much.

Yea chapy, Pebbles has seen some mid lane play, but not much.

[Shaunnn]

chu is here to save the day bro
http://hon.esportmedia.com/video/2010/09/12/cyber-sports-network-tournament-grand-finals-loa-4
(yesterday)

Ye it was all chu, had nothing to do with fuji on witch setting up bloodlust and like 4+ kills after and chu getting pretty much insane luck on the runes with like 3-4 haste and 2-3 invis and it also had nothing to do with notail not skilling stun early so chu could chase down easily

[JollyKnight]

shaunnn is a fail troll and fail human being, stfu no one loves u

[Shaunnn]

shaunnn is a fail troll and fail human being, stfu no one loves u

When have i ever trolled anyone ever?, im sorry if you disagree with my opinion but reguardless, its MY opinion and not a troll.

My post was pertaining to the topic while yours was a random insult at my person, you should be banned for trolling tbh:/

[chapy]

Not in my thread guys, please. Let's keep it on topic, so either HoN metagame, or my general awesomeness, thanks.

[BreakyCPK]

I also have noticed that MSI has popularized the trilane too?

Yes, MSI was pretty much the team to popularize tri-lane strategy with Panda / and two support usually Andro / Voodoo / Slither / Witch Slayer are the more popular ones. However we have seen more tri-lanes as well with Swift, Dark Lady, Maliken and a couple others as well.

What heroes (new/old) are recent additions to the metagame?

Voodoo Jester and Andromeda are prob the most stand out ones due to the tri-lane strategies and Dr. Repulsor being fairly popular as well amongst competitive teams. Of course there are many other heroes, however these are the ones that come to mind initially that we didn't use to see a whole lot. Nymphora as well I guess but she is more so banned than picked.

Items? (Chalice much?)

Blood Chalice and Striders are pretty much 100% gaurantee in every game now days, as well as null stone being much more popular. Frostburn is rarely seen anymore, instead geo bane is the more popular carry style item with frostwold skull / lifesteal as attack modifier.

Glad to hear that you are back chapy, hopefully this helped a tad... and feel free to hit me up if you want to talk about it somemore.

[Kolapz]

Oh and before I forget, please get the one the only the Cap to co-cast with ya.

[The_Thrill]

Devourer is more or less picked or banned at the moment. With the buffs to his ult as well as the introduction of Striders there is little risk with the hero. More often than not his ganking is rushing a hero and ulting and then comboing the hook afterwards. His force initiation is still there, but he can be played both ways.

Typical bans are: Chronos, Nymph, Devourer, Engineer, Witch Slayer, Dr Repulsor, Vindicator... mostly the regular heroes. Soul Stealer and Andromeda receive bans often due to the tri-lane cheese strat becoming more popular. Magmus has been a standout ban as well.

The metagame focused around trilaning depends on the team. Some teams (like DrDz) get intense farm on their carries all game with little interaction with said player until later in the game. Madman/Swiftblade/TDL/Panda are very typical picks for this type of lineup. Currently heroes like Andromeda and Voodoo Jester are hugely popular for these lanes as breaky pointed out. Other teams run the trilane but are much more aggressive (like LOAD) where they place ganking heroes like witch, pebbles, pharoah in the solo lane when its trilane vs trilane.

Basically, the metagame is quite boring unless its trilane vs trilane.. in which case it can be really enjoyable, tower dives, etc...

We rarely see heroes like puppet, accursed, pollywog, defiler, slither (compared to before) or jungle heroes. Tempest does see some play, but lately it's been lane play, not jungle, due to his ability to still farm vs a 2 or even 3 lane with the elementals. Gladiator, Flint Beastwood, Bubbles see some play, but still it's kind of rare.

Hope you do come back, not enough quality casters. Basically just me out there.. Breaky too I guess...

[Smeggles]

Also the metagame is so rigid at the moment that an off the wall pick can really cause problems:-

See: http://hon.esportmedia.com/video/2010/09/12/cyber-sports-network-tournament-grand-finals-loa-2

I eagerly await how top tier teams will see this shakeup either as a "Lets hope they don't do it again and stick to our guns" or if they adopt it and move with the "crazy" picks :)

[aminGo]

chapy i got ur back ^__________^

[Scope]

Hello Chapy, I missed you :3
I liked your casts over Breakys..although Breaky is not bad!

[Ashur]

Not much to input as others have said it already but nice to see you back and casting.

[RobinEA]

4AR disbanded so im lurking the forums more now. can give some innsight from my experience.

What heroes (new/old) are recent additions to the metagame?

thunderbringer was used some in the past, but not to much. Now he has become even a banworthy pick. The reason for this is blood chalice. When thunderbringer gets chalice he can pretty much do so people cant stand in lane anymore. And another important thing to note is that since he has such great lane controll he will get fast levels. And since it is a trilane metagame atm he can help out the trilane with both ganks and his ultimate. therefor increasing the winning chance of your trilane.

bubbles is also used some, often as a solo against their trilane or just as a solo on the other lane than their own trilane.

Fujiapples picked up balphagore, and after that he is used / banned in allmost every single game. He is also most used in the solo lane. Reason: Great at pushing because of minions. + his ult is really good. (minions are considerd OP because they are faster than normal players with boots + they do a huge amount of damage)

Devourer beeing picked up quite alot since the buffs. One of the strongest mid heroes atm. Another reason for this aint just because of the buffs, but also because striders and chalice makes him really strong. And he is a really good ganker.

Repulsor beeing banned / picked alot due to the fact he is a great ganker. his ultimate also makes him one of the hardest heroes to gank, + he is easy to farm with. used alot to solo mid. he is also a great rune controller after level 6.

just wanted to mention some heroes that wasnt mentioned to much in the other posts.

[Tamachan]

Tb completely obliterates a trilane and we've even seen him banned because of it.

[Mike`]

4AR disbanded so im lurking the forums more now. can give some innsight from my experience.

What heroes (new/old) are recent additions to the metagame?

thunderbringer was used some in the past, but not to much. Now he has become even a banworthy pick. The reason for this is blood chalice. When thunderbringer gets chalice he can pretty much do so people cant stand in lane anymore. And another important thing to note is that since he has such great lane controll he will get fast levels. And since it is a trilane metagame atm he can help out the trilane with both ganks and his ultimate. therefor increasing the winning chance of your trilane.

bubbles is also used some, often as a solo against their trilane or just as a solo on the other lane than their own trilane.

Fujiapples picked up balphagore, and after that he is used / banned in allmost every single game. He is also most used in the solo lane. Reason: Great at pushing because of minions. + his ult is really good. (minions are considerd OP because they are faster than normal players with boots + they do a huge amount of damage)

Devourer beeing picked up quite alot since the buffs. One of the strongest mid heroes atm. Another reason for this aint just because of the buffs, but also because striders and chalice makes him really strong. And he is a really good ganker.

Repulsor beeing banned / picked alot due to the fact he is a great ganker. his ultimate also makes him one of the hardest heroes to gank, + he is easy to farm with. used alot to solo mid. he is also a great rune controller after level 6.

just wanted to mention some heroes that wasnt mentioned to much in the other posts.
:krak::krak::krak::krak::krak::krak::krak::krak:

[BadaBing]

Its good to see you back! You where always one of my favorite casters, as you knew what you where talking about.

The only team that have run Pebbles more than once is Empr, but they run him in a trilane (vs a solo) where the two babysitters will stand out of xp range and that ensures that Pebbles have 100% freefarm and will just steamroll kids when he gets blink. Other than that he really haven't been picked (other than Chu in that MSI game).

Almost all teams get at least one Ring of the Teacher, just as they do in DotA. MSI is also the first team to really be on top of the ward-game, and Nova seems to always carry 6 anti-wards. They are also the only team that consistently get an Eye on Tundra, Vanguard Slither or the like to counterward (again inspired by DotA).

MSI was also the team to break the "Team 5 ranged heroes"-strat that dominated the HoN scene for a long period. Basicially it forced teams to not pick melee heroes, as the would just be harassed endlessly in the laning-phase. MSI (and partly Empr) really introduced the "counter": Trilanes and didn't seem to be hindered by the "we can not pick more than one melee, otherwise we will lose"-mentalilty. They are even comfortable with running a melee solo (e.g. Pharaoh or Madman) vs a trilane, and they survive by doing some heavy bottle abusing.

[Gok]

The only team that have run Pebbles more than once is Empr, but they run him in a trilane (vs a solo) where the two babysitters will stand out of xp range and that ensures that Pebbles have 100% freefarm and will just steamroll kids when he gets blink. Other than that he really haven't been picked (other than Chu in that MSI game).


Unz running with Pebbles almost every game.

[TheCapitalist]

Just the thread I was looking for! Like chapy, I needed an update on the metagame since I'm finishing my MOS school and heading back home in a few days. I was pretty stoked when I heard from rabbi that both you, nonvidius and harada were coming back...


Oh and before I forget, please get the one the only the Cap to co-cast with ya.

This... It's been awhile

[chapy]

wtf rabbi can't drop a line in here for an old friend?

and ya cap we should hook up for a cast someday

[The_Thrill]

Marine Corps is gay.

[oldgrandad]

2-2-1 has been a decent counter to the trilane as well

[SharkFuji]

Did anyone point out Sand Wraith, he is the current flavor of the month hero. His ultimate was tweaked, and his illusions do not disapear even if he teleports to one of them. On top of that the damage dispersion that his illusions have really help in teamfights.

Also, there has been alot of teams that are using the 2-2-1 laning style to counter the trilane strategy. Basically the team that isn't trilaning will send 2 heroes to each of the trilane's solo lane and effectively crippling their two solo heroes.

Heroes I haven't seen as often as back then are probably CD and Arachna. But at least predator + hammerstorm are recieving some screen time :3.

[chapy]

It's been 4 months of playing regularly, time to come back.

I plan on live casting this coming weekend covering one of the two semi final matches in the GR TS3 Tournament.

Disclaimer: I WILL BE RUSTY, bear with me for a couple weeks, thanks.

[Zpredator]

Nice to see you back :D

[Honcast]

Always room for a chapy cast over here in honcast world.

Nice to see ur back, let us keep the casting scammer free *cough* veivi

[chapy]

Always room for a chapy cast over here in honcast world.

Nice to see ur back, let us keep the casting scammer free *cough* veivi

Ya seriously.

Funny story, I think I may be one of the lucky ones, he actually payed me just before I bailed haha

[JowiPlays]

Glad to have You back Casting at Gr chapy, cant wait to see you this Sunday

[Vilyanare]

Why would you care if you know what is going on in the game? Breaky has NO IDEA what is happening in any of the games he casts or what the mechanics are or why people ban certain heroes and people still watch him.

[nYn]

Woooooo.. will watch those casts :P you were always my favorite caster lol

havent really played hon all that much recently but i still like watching a cast every now and then

[JowiPlays]

well you can watch him at Honreplays.org/live