Killer Mantis (UNIQUE Late Game DPS)

[Kaliuz]

[Hero Suggestion]


Slorith the -Killer Mantis-


http://a.imagehost.org/0126/PZO9009-MantisGod_copy.png



Hey there!
I'm here to introduce my brand new hero suggestion for HoN.

Slorith the Killer Mantis. He is an Agility-based DPS, late game hero for the Hellbourne, but with many interesting aspects that make him an Unique hero.

Slorith starts out as a puny, weak, slow larvae, but as he gains levels on his ultimate skill 'Evolution', he becomes a mighty, fearsome, fast, killer Mantis.

His skills were meant to allow him to basically survive and farm until reaches Lvl 6, but since all of them are improved by his ultimate, none of them becomes useless late game.

The Leap that on the beginning barely lets you survive, at late game becomes a powerful escaping and chasing tool.

The Feast that early game barely lets you farm becomes an useful pushing tool at lvl 16.

The Wound orb effect, that is already quite useful early game, becomes really strong at late game.

And his ultimate, more than just enhancing all his skills, also enhances all his stats, increasing his survivability and combat proficiency.


Initial Stats and Stat Growth

Strenght - 17 + 1.8
Agility - 20 + 2.5
Intelligence - 14 + 1.3

Initial Attack Range => 300
Initial Damage => 35 - 40
Base Attack Cooldown => 1.65
Base Movement Speed => 285



First Skill - Hunter's Rage

The Mantis focus all of his energy into taking down his prey, attacking it relentlessly until it falls.
Temporarily Increases attack speed and movement speed. Increases the number of Wound counters per hit by 1. After target is chosen, you lose control of the hero and skill cannot be canceled. Lasts until reaches hit limit, Mantis is disabled or if target gets too far away (500+ units).

Active - Channeling

Level 1 - 25% increased attack speed - 6% increased movement speed - Lasts 3 hits
Level 2 - 35% increased attack speed - 8% increased movement speed - Lasts 4 hits
Level 3 - 45% increased attack speed - 10% increased movement speed - Lasts 5 hits
Level 4 - 55% increased attack speed - 12% increased movement speed - Lasts 6 hits - Adds 1 extra Wound counter per hit

Manacost - 150
Cooldown - 35/30/25/20 seconds

Evolution Bonuses - Each level of Evolution grants the following bonuses
Level 1 - +15% attack speed - +2% movement speed bonus
Level 2 - +25% attack speed - +4% movement speed bonus
Level 3 - +35% attack speed - +6% movement speed bonus

Second Skill - Hunter's Leap
Active

Slorith quickly jumps to target unit or location. On arrival, units in a 300 AoE around Slorith run away in fear. (Similar to Maliken's Ulti)

Level 1 - 450 range - Units run away in fear for 0.25s
Level 2 - 550 range - Units run away in fear for 0.5s
Level 3 - 650 range - Units run away in fear for 0.75s
Level 4 - 750 range - Units run away in fear for 1s

Manacost - 75/65/55/50
Cooldown - 30/25/15/10s

Evolution Bonuses - Each level of Evolution grants the following bonuses
Level 1 - 200 extra range and 0.25s Extra fear time
Level 2 - 300 extra range and 0.50s Extra fear time
Level 3 - 400 extra range and 1s Extra fear time


Third Skill - Wound

PASSIVE - ORB EFFECT

When Killer Mantis attacks an enemy unit, adds 1 Wound charge to it.
For each wound charge the unit has:

Level 1 - 2% Slow (25% Max) +1 damage on next attack
Level 2 - 3% Slow (25% Max) +2 damage on next attack
Level 3 - 4% Slow (50% Max) +3 damage on next attack
Level 4 - 5% Slow (50% Max) +4 damage on next attack

Wounded debuff Lasts for 4 seconds
Each charge adds 1,25 second to the duration.

Evolution Bonuses - Each level of Evolution grants the following bonuses
Level 1 - +6 base damage, Extra 1% slow per charge, Extra +1 damage per attack
Level 2 - +6 base damage, Extra 3% slow per charge, Extra +2 damage per attack
Level 3 - +6 base damage, Extra 6% slow per charge, Extra +3 damage per attack


Ultimate Skill - Evolution
Passive

Slorith grows and evolves into the next stage of his life. Turns Slorith into a melee attacker, increases stats, HP, armor,damage, movement speed, attack speed and improves all his skills.

Level 1 - +3 All Stats, + 50HP, +2 Armor, +8 damage, +7% attack speed, +4% movement speed and improves all skills, becomes melee attacker (125 range) and changes skin

Level 2 - +6 All Stats, + 125HP, +3 Armor, +16 damage, +14% attack speed, +8% movement speed and improves all skills, becomes melee attacker (125 range) and changes skin

Level 3 - +9 All Stats, + 200HP, +5 Armor, +24 damage, +21% attack speed, +12% movement speed and improves all skills, becomes melee attacker (125 range) and changes skin


Well, this is it. I hope you like it. Please give your suggestions and opinions as I will gladly read and think about all of them.

RECOMMENDED ITEM BUILDS

http://www.heroesofnewerth.com/images/items/Item_EnhancedMarchers.jpg
Enchanted Marchers
Useful attack speed bonus. Phase is also quite useful on chases and escapes.

http://www.heroesofnewerth.com/images/items/Item_Shield2.jpg
Helm of the Black Legion
Provides survivability and allows you to endure enemy attacks.

http://www.heroesofnewerth.com/images/items/Item_ElderParasite.jpg or http://www.heroesofnewerth.com/images/items/Item_WhisperingHelm.jpg
Elder Parasite / Whispering Helm
Both items provide quite useful lifestealing properties that allow you to keep your HP high while dealing damage. Elder Parasite temporarily boosts your damage output, but is a riskier option, while Whispering Helm gives a little more stats and can be upgraded later into Symbol of Rage for further increase of Lifesteal.

http://www.heroesofnewerth.com/images/items/Item_StrengthAgility.jpg
Hack and Slash
Increases movement speed, attack speed, damage output, has a chance of slowing that stacks with Mantis' orb effect and also increases HP by a significant ammount. Makes Mantis an even better hunter/chaser, easy to make and not very expensive. One of the best items for him in my opinion.

http://www.heroesofnewerth.com/images/items/Item_Evasion.jpg
Wingbow
Huge damage and attack speed boost and an amazing evasion. Need to say more? Quite expensive though.

http://www.heroesofnewerth.com/images/items/Item_Brutalizer.jpg
Brutalizer
Bash makes hunting and chasing much easier, and is also quite cheap. Great when facing other DPS heroes.

http://www.heroesofnewerth.com/images/items/Item_Immunity.jpg
Shrunken Head
Situational item. Useful when being constantly stunned and disabled.

http://www.heroesofnewerth.com/images/items/Item_Critical2.jpg
Flayer
Luxury item, great increase to damage output.


OBSERVATION : Before saying the ultimate or the hero is imbalanced and needs to be nerfed, please consider that Slorith will have LOW INITIAL STATS, starting out as weak as Goblin Techies was on DotA. The status bonuses received in the other skills are, mostly, to compensate this on the late game. Don't post to say values are imbalanced, cause at this point they are merely cosmetic and are definitely not final. Vote on the concept, not the numbers.

OBSERVATION 2 : When Voting, please take in consideration that this hero is still not final and all of his skills' values and stats may still be tweaked and balanced if necessary. Also, when reviewing, make constructive critics, not just stupid comments like "IMBA". If you think the hero is imbalanced, help me understand why, make your point clear. IF YOU VOTE NO, PLEASE TELL ME WHY, AS I'M ALWAYS TRYING TO IMPROVE AND REFINE THE KILLER MANTIS.


Role in game

- Late Game carry
- Hunter/Chaser

Internal Synergies

- Hunter's rage - Synergizes with Wound, by increasing the number of hits per second and the number of added wound charges per hit.
- Hunter's Leap - Synergizes with Hunter's Rage being used to approach the enemy and get in range to use it. Synergizes with Wound for the same reason.
- Evolution - Passively synergizes with all of the first three skills by increasing their power, and by passively increasing attack speed and movement, making both Hunter's rage and Wound more efficient.

Team Synergies

- Synergizes well with all kinds of disable and slowing heroes, like Electrician, Pollywog, Arachna, Succubus, etc.

:)If you liked this hero, support him by voting on the poll!:)

[PoopyDesires]

Forced synergy.

Yet... I like it somehow.

I mean its rather simple with a lot of effects yet it just seems like a hero that could actually exist in game.

I mean it's not the most original suggestion I've seen but its not bad at all.

My only beef is that evolution gives too many base effects and far too much MS. Thats basically max move speed with steamboots. Assuming he has 300 base thats 420 MS with steamboots.

[Kaliuz]

The stats are still not final, but his initial stats are meant to be quite low. Something like 270 MS. He is suposed to be really weak until lvl 6, thats why he starts out as a ranged hero.

[Rentaromon]

hmm i dont like him right now. maybe its becouse his powers seem a bit op or maybe its just that blarfles likes it =P

1st: so what your saying is you can simple do damage forever and kill anything? kongor? ancients?

2nd: rather simple escape/chase power.

3rd: lower the max slow. if you get a fiew attacks off at max level there is no way to escape.

ulti: its good.

[PoopyDesires]

blarfles likes it =P


Every reply you post seems to get more and more immature. Can you stand not starting a flame war?

[Kaliuz]

hmm i dont like him right now. maybe its becouse his powers seem a bit op or maybe its just that blarfles likes it =P

1st: so what your saying is you can simple do damage forever and kill anything? kongor? ancients?



No, no, of course not. this would work somewhat like doom lord of dota's devour, being unable to be used on high level creeps, ancients, kongor, etc.

The stats are still to be adjusted, not to be to OP, thanks for pointing that out.

[Rentaromon]

Every reply you post seems to get more and more immature. Can you stand not starting a flame war?
i knew that would get your goat.

[PoopyDesires]

Leap is rather weak and scales badly. I'd change it so evolution gives it less, it starts with more, and scales much better (It starts with 200. That's incredibly weak) even with the stun, Flash is superior to it in every way.

[Kaliuz]

Done. Leap has been rescaled and is much better now. Thanks for the suggestion ,Blarfles.

[PoopyDesires]

Much better. My only change would be to turn the cooldown to something between 7-9 based on Flash having a 5 second one, since you only get the stun at level 11.

[Zephyrae]

This looks amazing, and I would love to see it placed in game. It could easily become my favourite hero if it is.

(I love my leaps, and ever-changing gameplay! I also like being weak at the beginning of the game, lotsa fun! Also as he seems to have a passive slow (Which might wanna be toned down, having the ability to leap, stun, and then perma slow just seems a bit... OP) He appears to be my perfect Chara. And he's a mantis!!!)

[Eros]

Cool suggestion, I like the Tiny/Ursa mash-up with the added concept of his skin changing from a larvae into a mantis. One suggestion: Include stats on the "bugs" that spawn while using feast. Do they have any effects, like a slow or the ability to create more bugs? Just a thought.

Also, wound, while being awesome, might be a little too strong mid to late game. It just might be a bit much, when with maxed Evolution and maxed Wound, you can literally slow a hero by 60% in 4 hits, with your next attack doing an extra 95 damage already. I mean, I love the skill, but its like the bastard child of Ursa's swipes combined with Bristleback's goo... Which reminds me, how long do the feast charges last before they expire? And are stacks replenished on attack, or does each last for a specific duration and then expire?

Sorry, lots of info in this, but just wanted to help you out cause I like your ideas. Cheers.

[truckdriver1]

this is not a good idea. the reasons are obvious and you should scrap it.

[Pentalis]

As other people pointed out, wound needs detail on how long the stacking debuff lasts, if it refreshes, overlaps or whatnot, and the stats of the bugs you spawn.

Aside from that, I support this hero due to being a Mantis. I'd just change the name from "Cannibal" to "Killer" which is more representative of its behavior in game, after all I can't see it cannibalizing anything, there's no other mantises in the game.

[Kaliuz]

Cool suggestion, I like the Tiny/Ursa mash-up with the added concept of his skin changing from a larvae into a mantis. One suggestion: Include stats on the "bugs" that spawn while using feast. Do they have any effects, like a slow or the ability to create more bugs? Just a thought.

Also, wound, while being awesome, might be a little too strong mid to late game. It just might be a bit much, when with maxed Evolution and maxed Wound, you can literally slow a hero by 60% in 4 hits, with your next attack doing an extra 95 damage already. I mean, I love the skill, but its like the bastard child of Ursa's swipes combined with Bristleback's goo... Which reminds me, how long do the feast charges last before they expire? And are stacks replenished on attack, or does each last for a specific duration and then expire?

Sorry, lots of info in this, but just wanted to help you out cause I like your ideas. Cheers.


Slow has been nerfed a bit, it really seemed a bit OP, thanks for pointing that out. I also updated the skills description, they now include the bugs stats and the wounded status' duration.

Thanks for the suggestions =]

[Sufferr]

I liked it. That's the kind of hero, that is very weak at the begining = hard to solo and hard to jungle
BUT if done properly he WILL dominate ^^, I like the Not-So-Easy-Farming carry type of hero.
Pretty much like Dark Lady, and a bit like Madman, but Madman is strong already mid game.
well

t-up .

[Bracer_Crane]

Oh my.

My thumbs are stuck now in the ceiling.

BECAUSE THEY ARE INFACT UP. BOTH OF THEM.

[xHworang]

Amazing concept!
I'd really like to see this hero in-game.
I love the way he starts out weak and grows really strong.
Thumbs up :)

[PoopyDesires]

this is not a good idea. the reasons are obvious and you should scrap it.

And people say I do worthless reviews >_>

[Bugglez]

The only thing I think I would suggest is to beef up the first skill. A channeling spell (for a max 2% health) doesn't seem like a lot to me =/ (On a 30sec cd max).
Maybe work it so it's something like Terrorblades health drain. Or if you like the concept of keeping a solid % number I'd think you would be ok to increase them, (or decrease the cd).

Nitpicky stuff from me as usual. I like the hero, I was just talking with my friends the other day that it would be fun to have a hero that grew older as it leveled. =)
GL

[Kaliuz]

The only thing I think I would suggest is to beef up the first skill. A channeling spell (for a max 2% health) doesn't seem like a lot to me =/ (On a 30sec cd max).
Maybe work it so it's something like Terrorblades health drain. Or if you like the concept of keeping a solid % number I'd think you would be ok to increase them, (or decrease the cd).

Nitpicky stuff from me as usual. I like the hero, I was just talking with my friends the other day that it would be fun to have a hero that grew older as it leveled. =)
GL

Hmm, i guess you did'nt quite understand how the skill works.
It deals a constant ammount of damage per second, increasing per level. When the creep is completely consumed, the Killer Mantis heals 5% (level 4) of his max health and gets extra gold. The main purpose of this skill is to allow him to farm a bit early game, since his starter stats will be pretty low, and allow him to compensate at late game for not having farmed much early.
About the cooldown, it decreases considerably when you level up Evolution.
Thanks for the feedback anyway

[PoopyDesires]

I'm guessing that was based on Devour?

[Bugglez]

Ah, sorry about that. Even knowing this however I still think it's a little weak (I know its supposed to be) but maybe make rank 2 of evo rank 1 for this skill. Not trying to be rude, just my opinion.

[Kaliuz]

First skill's damage has been rescaled. I guess its more balanced now.

[Bugglez]

=) you already had my vote, and as I said it was my opinion. If you feel the skill was fine, and no one else has commented on it, don't feel you need to cater to me.
I guess its more balanced now.
It's only a suggestion and I don't want to feel like I forced you to do anything with your hero. =)

[Kaliuz]

=) you already had my vote, and as I said it was my opinion. If you feel the skill was fine, and no one else has commented on it, don't feel you need to cater to me.
I guess its more balanced now.
It's only a suggestion and I don't want to feel like I forced you to do anything with your hero. =)

Haha, don't worry Bugglez, it was really starting out too weak. You just made it clear to me =)

[Hucklecat]

I love the concept but there are a lot of things that are off and do not synergize.

Spell 1 - Feast - So in essence you took Doombringers Devour and buffed it a lot.

Spell 2 - Leap - Again you took a spell from DotA, Mirana/Valk's jump and buffed it a lot.

Spell 3 - Wound - +39 damage with 11% stacking slow at level 16, which is insane. Tone this down.

Spell 4 - Evolution - +453HP, +48 damage, 42% ias, +15% ms and it improves all of your spells tremendously. Just to put this into perspective for you, Centaur from DotA at level 16 gained 36 strength, which is 36 damage and 684HP, only 231 more HP than this ult. everything about this ult needs to be nerfed. Blacksmith/Ogre Magi's ult is very similar but all it did was improve his 3 spells but did not add any of these others stats, you have Blacksmith's ultimate on crack.

I just do not see any originality in these spells, the only redeeming factor with this hero is that it is a carry hero with evolving spells but even that isn't really that ground breaking. I think you have a lot of work to do. I will hold my vote for now.

[PoopyDesires]

Uhhh how is spell 2 like leap? Lol

[Hucklecat]

Uhhh how is spell 2 like leap? Lol
http://www.playdota.com/heroes/priestess-of-the-moon

Mirana's increases her MS/IAS, Slorith gains 435(1275 in total) range + Stuns, to make it worse is that it is even targetable.

[PoopyDesires]

Umm, his is blink strike.

Mirana's is an auto-leap.

Durrrrr

[Kaliuz]

I love the concept but there are a lot of things that are off and do not synergize.

Spell 1 - Feast - So in essence you took Doombringers Devour and buffed it a lot.

Spell 2 - Leap - Again you took a spell from DotA, Mirana/Valk's jump and buffed it a lot.

Spell 3 - Wound - +39 damage with 11% stacking slow at level 16, which is insane. Tone this down.

Spell 4 - Evolution - +453HP, +48 damage, 42% ias, +15% ms and it improves all of your spells tremendously. Just to put this into perspective for you, Centaur from DotA at level 16 gained 36 strength, which is 36 damage and 684HP, only 231 more HP than this ult. everything about this ult needs to be nerfed. Blacksmith/Ogre Magi's ult is very similar but all it did was improve his 3 spells but did not add any of these others stats, you have Blacksmith's ultimate on crack.



I understand that you think his ultimate is imbalanced, but in fact, it's not.
Killer Mantis' base stats, damage, HP, etc. are quite low. At the early game, he as strong a DPS hero as Goblin Techies was in DotA, but with shorter range. His strenght gain per level is not even comparable to Centaur from DotA, which makes him Need the extra HP.
All other skills, at first look seem to be imbalanced too, but remember that they only get improved as you get your ultimate. What may be something completely Overpowered at early game, may also be quite fair at early game. If you can outlevel your opponents, you will really have a huge advantage, but isn't the same thing with many other DPS Agility Heroes?

About the first skill, yes, it resembles Lucifer from Dota's skill, but it is a channeling skill. Something like Pudge's ultimate, but for creeps only. You can still be targeted, stunned, the creep can still be denied, and it can be canceled, so it's not as easy to use as it seems, since it has quite a considerable cooldown at early game.

Anyway, all the values and stats on the skills are not decided yet. The only real way to know if they are balanced or not is to test it in-game, since there are too many factors to be considered. Thanks for the feedback anyway, I'll try my best to make Killer Mantis a well balanced hero. :)

[Hucklecat]

Umm, his is blink strike.

Mirana's is an auto-leap.

Durrrrr

"Slorith quickly jumps to target unit or location."

He says in bold text, target unit or LOCATION. Blink strikes can only leap/strike on targeted units not locations.

[PoopyDesires]

I think the point here is that you just compared Mirana's leap to this dude's leap though the spells are completely different.

Anyways you can target someone with normal blink and it'll blink right next to them. This just gives you a stun if you do that. How is that imba? Magmus has the same thing with damage and can hit multiples.

[Rogna]

I can't say I see him being in the game unless he's seriously nerfed. If he gets his hands on a yasha any hero that is by themselves will be dead without a chance. He slows too much and the more attack speed he has the more damage he will do. He is like Ursa (DotA) but with a blink and a slow in his attack. Stacking damage and a slow at the same time just can't be done. One of them has to go in my mind. Maybe it's just me, but at level 7 I think the game will be over. Maybe I'm just a fool and don't get me wrong. The idea behind him is awesome and I love mantises.
Cheers, Rogna

[Sabre]

Can't say I like the abilities, the concept or the synergy. It just seems awkward and forced, particularly the seeming randomness of the ult providing the one time change to the hero.

[Kaliuz]

Can't say I like the abilities, the concept or the synergy. It just seems awkward and forced, particularly the seeming randomness of the ult providing the one time change to the hero.

The ult is by no means random. If you read the description properly, you'll see that it represents the evolution of the Killer Mantis through his life stages. At the first level, he changes from a Larvae form to a grown-up Mantis, which explains the changes in stats and attack form and for levels 2 and 3, some minor skin changes, like increasing size, slightly changing color, etc.

[Eros]

Ugh, ignore all these haters. I like this hero a lot-- and the skill set and concept make perfect sense to me. It really IS an original concept, despite what a few people are saying. Even if a few of your skills are similar to pre-existing skills, so what!?! At this point, its kind of hard to make COMPLETELY original skills, unless you want to come up with some retarded skill, like making your whole team be able to run through trees or something. (See Sabre's Highland Sniper guide)

I was checking on this thread, and was disappointed to seeing some of the hate you've been getting. Just wanted to give you a free bump and a few words of encouragement. Cheers

[PenguinBud]

I like the hero though you need to post detailed info on his stats in each form as well as his stat growth. Give me that info before I give it thumbs up.

[Kaliuz]

I like the hero though you need to post detailed info on his stats in each form as well as his stat growth. Give me that info before I give it thumbs up.

Hero description has been updated. I've included detailed description on his stat growth, damage, attack speed and range.
The stat growth is the same in all forms, but for each level of the ultimate, he receives +4 of all stats, as I already explained on the ultimate's description.

[Akroma666]

IMBA

[PoopyDesires]

RETARDE LOL

Wait what?

[Scimish]

I love this idea very much.

[Rankine]

Very nice!
Seems like a very fun hero to play, despite its early-game weaknesses.
And the idea of a "Evolving Hero", even though already present on Pebbles/Tiny, is used in a very original way here. The skin change, and the ranged to melee change both make this hero really unique.
A big YES from me, and good luck ;)

[Sufferr]

Ppl talk about his slow, dude.. look at arachna..
also this hero here has a very low stat and stat growth is average,,,
he is also MELEE... so..

you guys have to consider this thing as a WHOLE please..
I like the hero and its sinergy..
about his ulti's visual effects:
would be just awesome if he at level 1 was like a small larva and then was growing in size and changing shape by the ultis increase
XD

[ck64]

Get rid of ranged on the larvae. Melee all the way. Makes the climb from those early levels all the more difficult to justify those increases, and to make the feeling of growth more tangible. Ranged to melee is a downgrade imo, and goes against the idea of evolution.

[xHworang]

Ppl talk about his slow, dude.. look at arachna..
also this hero here has a very low stat and stat growth is average,,,
he is also MELEE... so..

you guys have to consider this thing as a WHOLE please..
I like the hero and its sinergy..
about his ulti's visual effects:
would be just awesome if he at level 1 was like a small larva and then was growing in size and changing shape by the ultis increase
XD

Well said Sufferr. Arachna's slow is ranged and already starts at 40%, while his slow steadily increases. Seems perfectly balanced to me.
About the visual effects It would also be pretty cool if it changed its color, maybe from green to orange and then to red or something like that. Or maybe gain some cool wings too :D

[`14FAussie]

You are putting way to much DPS into one hero. Your stat gain is absurd. Try putting more spells into your unit other than everything that gives slow + dps. Once you just add nothing but DPS/slow you will end up with a hero like PA but with no evasion.

[Kaliuz]

You are putting way to much DPS into one hero. Your stat gain is absurd. Try putting more spells into your unit other than everything that gives slow + dps. Once you just add nothing but DPS/slow you will end up with a hero like PA but with no evasion.

Slorith is a DPS hero, but is not like PA. Maybe better, maybe worse, but absolutely different.
His Leap ability needs no target and also stuns at later levels, making it both a great initiator and escape mechanism.
His Feast skill allows him to farm early game, and makes him a great carry hero at later levels with the bugs spawned.

Phantom Assassin was also a quite imbalanced hero at late game when properly farmed, with her 4x Critical Strike and evasion. Slorith does have better stats, but has no passive critical or evasion.

AND, Since S2 games didn't implement Phantom Assassin into HoN yet, why couldn't Slorith be a good substitute for her as a mainly DPS hero?

[yourstruly]

He is ranged, has a farming ability, an escape ability, a chasing ability (that incidentally, makes him also probably best 1v1 hero in game), and an ultimate that completely rips face while making all his other skills completely insane.

I think he'd give a new meaning to the word "pubstomp hero"

also the base attack time of 1.35 is completely ridiculous.

BUT: given significant nerfs and changing of at least one ability to something less insanely good, and giving him a real weakness, i think he could evolve into something (hur dur dur, bad pun)

[Kaliuz]

He is ranged, has a farming ability, an escape ability, a chasing ability (that incidentally, makes him also probably best 1v1 hero in game), and an ultimate that completely rips face while making all his other skills completely insane.

also the base attack time of 1.35 is completely ridiculous.

BUT: given significant nerfs and changing of at least one ability to something less insanely good, and giving him a real weakness, i think he could evolve into something (hur dur dur, bad pun)

Slorith is a MELEE hero.
About his attack cooldown, maybe it was a bit OP, so i nerfed it a bit.
All his stats are not final yet and may be tweaked if needed.
About his abilities, remember that the only get "insanely good" at very late game, when most of them can be easily countered unless you really outleveled your opponents.

[`14FAussie]

You are missing the point, it is the concept of the hero how he would perform in the team strategy and role. He would be exactly like pa would be played even though he is different because he is a DPS hero.

Take a long hard thought about how any hero in the game with nothing but a certain type of spell and introduce them into the game.

Zues - Somewhat useful, depending on the circumstance of the team lineup
Axe - Counters meele attacks

Both heroes are based on a sole purpose, both are relatively boring to play. Now add a hero with a DPS only background and you would be basically a troll but less effective do to the fact you don't have a built in bash and super attack speed, with the ability to move faster on command.

Not saying it is a bad concept, but it would be boring to play unless you tweak her a bit into a kind of troll port. Pa was a boring hero but she did win games depending on the situation as well, if that is what you are looking for so be it. Remember troll was an actual better late game carry and wasn't as boring to play and could farm easier.\

You are better off inter-twining these heroes together to suffice a new hybrid hero :)

[yourstruly]

Hes ranged untill first level of ultimate, which seems to me like it'd be taken at lvl 10, to get lvl 2 ulti at lvl 11, untill then use the ranged benefit to its fullest.

also, the blink ability levels really poorly, it would likely be left at lvl 1 for a long time, used to dodge nukes and escape as is, just wait to get it boosted by ultimate and then start using it - saves up skillpoints with little loss - i think the range should be 600 at all levels, but have cooldown or manacost reduced by levels (or both).

also, the ultimate is still too powerful standalone (not counting the upgrades to his other skills), its strictly better than other pewpew ultimates, while being passive.

[CrazyTiger]

Luci/fuzzi-spider/lycan-wildosul...I think you combined too many characters. Focus one archetype and revolve around that IMO. I do like the character design and concept though.

[docterj208]

I don't like his skills being based on the ultimate. Yes, it could be a pebbles like effect, but, his initial skills have to be more effective. For instance, his first skill doesn't do anything but farm and give you health back and farm. Thats great, but doesn't help in a team fight, nothing does.

Make the skills better and make the ult a less of a sliding scale and you got a pretty good hero concept.

[dandylion]

In all honesty it just seems really... basic. Evolution is just a cheap way of saying he's krobelus or ogre magi, but packaged into a different little thing. I particularly like the way evolution effects the 2nd skill, but overall the rest just seems a little bland. 1/2 a T-Up

[Veseli]

It's just too generic for my tastes. Stunning leap, creep devour, evolution, it's all been done before.

[syphen]

Hardly any active abilities, and leap has been used by alot of heroes, I would suggest giving him more active abilities, and removing his first ability. It's obvious it's designed to help him jungle or lane in a hard lane, but it has such a long cooldown and it leaves you vulnerable for very little reward.

[Bracer_Crane]

Maybe after lvl 3 ulti, Slorith should evolve into a black-tied man with a monocle. and a tophat. and a cup of tea in his hands.


Just to make things interesting.

[DerTick]

i don't know about the balance but i like the basic idea so i vote yes:)
(right now you can pull a lot in the woods and i don't if that will be changed so the biggest weakness of this hero might be none at all)

[Nole]

This hero is a siick idea.
But the hero model looks pretty dirty

[xHworang]

This hero is a siick idea.
But the hero model looks pretty dirty

I think the hero model looks sorta weird too.

[Kaliuz]

I think the hero model looks sorta weird too.

That was just the best killer mantis image I found, but my main idea is very different from it.

[noodle0117]

He's harder in carrying than madman...

[Enceladus]

I don't like his skills being based on the ultimate. Yes, it could be a pebbles like effect, but, his initial skills have to be more effective. For instance, his first skill doesn't do anything but farm and give you health back and farm. Thats great, but doesn't help in a team fight, nothing does.

Make the skills better and make the ult a less of a sliding scale and you got a pretty good hero concept.

yeah, and doom bringer's devour is ABSOLUTELLY USEFULL on a team fight...
wait... what?

well.... i like mantises... but i hate forced sinergy -.-' ok... defiler have it and i like defiler windsouls is pretty good too... well ok, its an interesting idea overall but the first skill would make it a perfect jungler... right?

i dont know... maybe when he reaches ult lvl 1 the whole team would be lvl 8 or so... dont know if the weak points and good points scales but i think he would be pretty imba with hack slash...maybe

overall t-up it would be interesting to see the concept on the game, maybe reworked a little, but i have no good sugestions for it...

[Verisi]

As it is, Leap is an "add 1 point and ignore" ability, as the scaling is a mere 50 range/level. Please give a reason to level it, like less cd or something of that sort.

Feast is practically worthless. The life gain from it is pitiful--if you had 2000 life, it'd only give you 100. Fully powered, it's like a weak version of DotA Broodmother's "I push lane and nuke everything" ability, with additional gold, channeling requirement, superslight heal, no range (I'm assuming melee, seeing as you generally eat things with your face and not from range unless you have a giant Pudge face), inability to hit heroes, and weaker creep spawns. It'd only be used for last hitting (for extra money), but even then, it's still quite worthless, as that piddly amount of gold is only useful earlygame, when it runs into a wall of massive starting cooldown.

I'm not voting, but in my opinion, the whole "increase power of all abilities" forced synergy is not very interesting and leads to boring 2-active heroes. Combat lategame for this hero would be something like: W -> Click on enemy -> DiffusalPurge/Manta/etc, which is quite bland.

[Kaliuz]

I have rescaled Leap's cooldown and manacost to make it worth leveling up. Thanks for the feedback

[Rankine]

Feast is practically worthless. The life gain from it is pitiful--if you had 2000 life, it'd only give you 100. Fully powered, it's like a weak version of DotA Broodmother's "I push lane and nuke everything" ability, with additional gold, channeling requirement, superslight heal, no range (I'm assuming melee, seeing as you generally eat things with your face and not from range unless you have a giant Pudge face), inability to hit heroes, and weaker creep spawns. It'd only be used for last hitting (for extra money), but even then, it's still quite worthless, as that piddly amount of gold is only useful earlygame, when it runs into a wall of massive starting cooldown.

I'm not voting, but in my opinion, the whole "increase power of all abilities" forced synergy is not very interesting and leads to boring 2-active heroes. Combat lategame for this hero would be something like: W -> Click on enemy -> DiffusalPurge/Manta/etc, which is quite bland.

The bonus gold seems quite useful. Considering the low cooldown at late levels. The bonus HP grants lane staying capabilities at early game, helping him farm better and reach lvl 6 faster.
About 2-active heroes, Phantom Assassin from DotA was one of these heroes, and she was quite fun to play. Troll by the way, was even worse, since all his skills were self buffs, his late game combat was just pure brute force.

[Kaliuz]

Thanks for all the support and feedback i've been receiving. I've already looked into lots of balance suggestions, most of which I've actually used into the Killer Mantis. I hope It gets into top suggestions.

[SunTzu_]

The hero is OP imo ... The leap distance with the Ulti improvement is TOO MUCH ! with the stun too ! And ullti Stats gain , armor gain , dmg gain n all ..Dude, do you realise you're not going to be with Boots only, add on top of that lets say Wingbow .. Do you know what will this hero do with such things ... It will rape basically ...And on all skills the improvements with the ulti are too much , its fine as it is .. i mean u took the first skill from lucifer from dota right ? Why didnt he have any bugs or w/e .. And he was such a good farmer with that skill as he was .. So this means means :

+ Stats gain
+ Armor
+ Damage
+ IAS
+ Imba farming (with evolution it will devour creeps fats enough to kill 2 unstead of one like luci used to)
+ Take for instance that you will have good items n farm good.. which will make you pretty much OP...

And as for the starting stats ... They are low , so what , like ur gonan be solo on mid and get ****ed up so much , with such a spell like Lucifer had Devour , ur gonna take creeps and take gold , Last hit here n there ur still good, ur not gonna get ganked that easly, afteral The blink/leap thing with that amount of range and Stun , if its target leap -stun = OP

if its AoE leap stun = OP X 2

You have to realize even with low stats you will fill that amount later on but still ur ulti drastically improves your other skill + you gain on ulti the ms and ias and hp n everything .... And still you are able to consume extra creeps here n there for extra gold , which will make you OP more as the game goes ... And the dmg increase and stack on the Passive ... were u serious about that o.o ?

Man . the concept is cool but the whole thing with numbers and improvements are toooo too much ...

[Unzki]

Nice idea.. He should really have low stats because his skills are mayby little bit too good. Mayby the slow on 3rd skill is too high...
Nice idea anyway.

[Kaliuz]

EDIT: Nerfed his ulti a little bit.
And SunTzu, his Feast skill is not that great early game as it seems. While it can be great, remember it's a channeling skill. At early game, while you're busy eating one creep, you can be targeted easily. The cooldown is also huge at early levels. Leap's stun is not AoE, it's only when you blink to a target enemy unit. He starts with slow attack speed and damage, it's really hard for him to farm at early game, even with feast. Also please consider that all these skills are still up to be balanced, this is only the primary concept, all numbers will be tweaked if so is necessary, but please don't vote No just because the numbers seem imbalanced, as all of it will be fixed later if this ever make it into Top Suggestions.

[zxpr0jk]

I didn't think too hard about the stats and skills, but I'd love to play as a bug with more than 2 legs.

[H3rbal1sT]

i like the general idea and the First skill is well suited for such a weak hero rather than doom bringer in dota that can last hit creeps well and is good at creeping he doesn't need it.. hero is not bad
i think bugs spawned should have duration decreased or give them invisibility remove dmg they'll serve as weavers first skill at late game it's almost reveals all the map if using wisely

leap... i'm bored with this skill to make it rather like a bug hero u can just make it's it's animation like crawl under ground giving it'd be more fun and will suit this heros class

i vote yes!

[Renraw]

I like this idea! ^___^

[Ostralyan]

I don't see the use in this spell it's channeling =/ meaning i'll almost never be used in combat and the only time it can be used is when your off to the side and looking for a heal.

The second spell is pretty much the same as predators leap without the slow and damage.

I can see the use on the third spell and i like the idea but all together I think the spells can't sync with each other. All i can see this hero doing is Leap and click considering that his first spell can't even target heroes.

[Kaliuz]

I don't see the use in this spell it's channeling =/ meaning i'll almost never be used in combat and the only time it can be used is when your off to the side and looking for a heal.

The second spell is pretty much the same as predators leap without the slow and damage.

I can see the use on the third spell and i like the idea but all together I think the spells can't sync with each other. All i can see this hero doing is Leap and click considering that his first spell can't even target heroes.

First Spell is meant to farm, and at late game, carry.
Second Spell is different than predators leap, because it does not need a target. You can use it to initiate combat and escape.And, he is mainly a DPS hero, so, yeah, most of what you'll be doing is jumping and attacking.

[Fingerling]

I believe it's a little overpowered, though in DotA PA is overpowered too.

Both would work as a carry hero, and a poor choice for a team play game, since it's needed a little time so they can level up and start killing people.

I think it's fun though, a Mantis hero would be cool, and the skills are not bad at all, nice hero!

[Kaliuz]

Bump!

[Kaliuz]

Hey! Thanks for all that voted and commented on the Killer Mantis, thanks to you, he made it to Popular Suggestions! Now, I'm once again counting on you guys to help me tweak him and modify him properly for the First Evaluation.

I'm thinking about buffing up the first skill a bit, and maybe do some changes on the ultimate. Please share your thoughts about it. =]

[Zethos]

Like the concept but I'm curious about two things.

Aren't the bugs kind of random... I mean you're a mantis, you eat other insects, also it seems misplaced for the name and what the skill does for some random bugs to spawn out of your butt. Though it's not a huge thing, just one thing that bothered me.

The real problem was leap. With out ult, it's too short, with ult its to much. Also, the name is the same as Zephyr's. To change this skill, I'd like to see something worth taking past level 1. If you would simply ignore level past level 1 until the end. Once you reach level 16, you have essentially equal amount of distance (take a 100 or so) that you can travel.

Overall I think he's an interesting hero, not sure whether I like or dislike it yet though.

[Distort3d]

me likey...

Just the feast part...

After the channel.. you heal 2-5% of your max health.... and the cd for the skill is 30... REALLY?!?!

predator steals 7% PER HITTTTT lollll


I think the ulti should affect your range...

like i mean.. at the start, you start with 300/350 range as a ranged hero...
Ulti should change range to 100(melee)/150/200 perhaps??

Me likey... This hero might be good for farmers... unlike me, (i'm always 2-3 levels behind everyone else)

[Kaliuz]

EDIT: I've replaced the first skill, Feast, with Hunter's Rage.
It was not synergizing well with the other skills and was quite useless both early and late game.

[r00kie]

Why it is OP :

With all the skills

Leap from 1100 range stuns 1.25 second, or escape of 1100 units...

+85% attack speed + 18% movement speed for 6 hits, adds 6 wounds
combined with the passive
50% slow +13 damage

combined with the ult passive
+105% attack speed + 30% movement speed + 37 damage

This is a ridiculous hero, you get any basic damage item and you rape faces

[Zethos]

Why it is OP :

With all the skills

Leap from 1100 range stuns 1.25 second, or escape of 1100 units...

+85% attack speed + 18% movement speed for 6 hits, adds 6 wounds
combined with the passive
50% slow +13 damage

combined with the ult passive
+105% attack speed + 30% movement speed + 37 damage

This is a ridiculous hero, you get any basic damage item and you rape faces

Agreed. The only down fall would be the hero running away and you following...

Also does the first skill not allow you to do anything? Like if you activate it, does the Mantis automatically follow the unit and auto attack despite what you do?

[Kaliuz]

Agreed. The only down fall would be the hero running away and you following...

Also does the first skill not allow you to do anything? Like if you activate it, does the Mantis automatically follow the unit and auto attack despite what you do?


Yes, thats the disadvantage of the first skill. While you get extra attack speed and movement speed, you lose control of your hero. You can't do absolutely anything but chase and attack the target unit until you reach the hit limit, get disabled or if it gets away, so if that hero is faster than you, and is a skilled player, he can get you to be wherever he wants

Also, it's not OP. He gets really strong late game, but he's got only DPS. He is as OP as were Troll Warlord, Phantom Assassin or Ursa Warrior in DotA, and it seems to me that HoN is needing some DPS Agi carry heroes.

Mantis is also quite easy to counter. He's no tank, so a simple blade-mail/barbed armor STR Tank can easily be Mantis' worst enemy.

[Zethos]

HoN is needing some DPS Agi carry heroes.

Beg to differ :( Tons of carries, most end up being straight DPS late game.

But I agree with the rest of the post. Definitely clears up the first skill, though there would still be a few problems since wounding would slow the character making kiting around a tower/to base difficult.

[VashTS`]

Hmmm
I like it a lot. At first it seemed a bit OP, but then i remebered the tons of imba dps heroes and the tons of dps counter heroes available and changed my mind.
thumbs up, hope it gets chosen

[`NoD]

how about making your ultimate not passive and make it active skill (like davion's Ultimate from dota)

your hero is a monster with runed axe and your 3rd skill
BTW, i still like it

[supply_depot]

I like the idea pretty well, bugs are always nasty and fun I think (read: Tyranids, etc...).

However, he looks pretty boring. Very passive heavy. I wouldn't be too excited to play this guy, just because of the sheer auto attack involved.

Kudos for thinking though! It's a lot harder to conceptualize and create than it is for some jerk like me to come criticize it all ;)

[Thooom]

The one spell he has should have increased mana costs at higher lvls though. Not decreasing. Or maybe just me :)

[PiXeL_NiNja]

hes a bit OP dontchya think?

[junglebadger]

sounds cool, and i really like the overall concept of evolving and the skin changing when he gets bigger and scarier, tiny/pebbles was always one of my favorite heroes because of this. perhaps a little boring, like the old naix in dota who was practically all passives, but then again, sometimes i wanna just point and click. why do i play rampage otherwise :)

[Angus]

I really like the ult and the concept, and it forces your lane mate to be a team player! yay! he's a late game carry like chronos, so he'll be hunted early and often until he starts getting big, and then everyone will be scared of him.

thumbs up, lets see this dude in action!

[Varmint]

might not matter too much, but the spell names could be better

maybe pounce, frenzy

[woDka]

sry but i think this hero wouldnt fit in the hon universe :/

[Angus]

sry but i think this hero wouldnt fit in the hon universe :/

why not? maybe he's pest's long lost cousin? :D

[HaseoThePKK]

I always liked the idea of heroes evolving like you propose. Seems pretty balanced and has a good late game.

[Kaliuz]

bump

[Shaman88888]

I like the concept

[MADD411]

T-up. I would play the **** out of this guy. And it's nice to have a non-humanoid. You inspired me to go make 1 now.

[Forfeit]

Could you have made a more OP ultimate?

Another blink carry, I'll pass.

T Down.

[KobalT]

Imba late-game carries are never enough.

Thumbs up

[WackaWacka]

Hmmm...

1st Skill : This could be VERY bad if the person just kites you into their towers or something... But the other side of this is a rape-train, albeit uncontrollable. Looks okay.

2nd Skill : A blink that gives no benefits... You should find something else to do with this spell. I mean, Magebane gives his team +MArmor, Valk gives +ASpeed and MSpeed. Now, at level 16 it becomes slightly more useful, but why not do something more interesting? Like "The Mantis's leap frightens units within 200units of the targetted Hero, causing Fear for 0 / 0 / .75s / 1.25s" or something. 'Cause a single-target late-game short-duration stun-blink just seems meh in comparison to, say, Hammerstorm's AoE dmg-stun or Hag's Blink->Scream combo. I don't know at this point, but it could be better.

3rd : Okay, this seems a little much. Basically, use your Rape-Train spell and the enemy has a constant +30-70 damage modifier and -50% movespeed.

Ult: Forced synergy is okay (I mean, I use it on my hero), and I feel it works here. I like the tweaking involved as it seems like a more complicated / intricate version of Pebble's Grow. Even so, I still like it.


Seems like a pretty good guy to me, but it could use a little something with the Second spell and a little tweaking with the Third spell. I'll hold my vote for now, but he's on his way! :D

[Kaliuz]

I like your idea, wacka.
Added the Fear effect to the blink skill.

[Svendetta]

this is not unique...

[Kaliuz]

this is not unique...

Ok then. Show me another Late Game DPS that changes form during the game, that goes from ranged to melee, from a larvae to a full grown mantis.

[Passthechips]

Ok then. Show me another Late Game DPS that changes form during the game, that goes from ranged to melee, from a larvae to a full grown mantis.

Maliken and War Beast change form in the game. Maliken goes from melee to ranged. Wild Soul goes from range to melee. There are no larvae or Mantises in the game so you have me beat there.

This carry scales way to hard, a team that is based around turtling/baby sitting could easily keep this hero till level 16. Not to mention after level 6, leap becomes way to powerful. This carry also out classes every other one.

The concept is good, but the hero is poorly implemented.

[Schutn]

The ****!

Nice idea, though its like REALLY weak in the beginning, wich is pretty ****ed up for the noobs, so its nice but to pro to play for some of us. (Excluding me, ofcourse;))

[Svendetta]

Ok then. Show me another Late Game DPS that changes form during the game, that goes from ranged to melee, from a larvae to a full grown mantis.

:wild: Human > bear of course, cos there is no mantis in the game.