View Full Version : Wretched Hag tips by Kuroky (1.0.40)
akitoes
08-28-2009, 01:50 PM
Unfinished Akasha(Wretched Hag) guide by Kuroky, one of the best players in the world. Can only be found on french dota forums.
Images are the courtesy of Honwiki.net (http://www.honwiki.net)
UTDC.Justin helped MYM.Merlini make his guide on Zeus. He then collaborated with Ks.KuroKy.aq to create the English version of an Akasha (Wretched Hag) guide, but never finished. It should be noted, for those unaware, that KuroKy is without doubt one of the best players in the world!
http://www.noelshack.com/up/aaa/wretched1-d1dc99fc92.jpg
WRETCHED HAG, by Kuroky
Hero Abilities :
http://www.noelshack.com/up/aaa/wretched2-86b3ad1879.jpg
Skill build
Haunt : 3, 5, 8, 10
Flash of Darkness : 1, 12, 13, 14
Sonar Scream : 2, 4, 7, 9
Bat Blast : 6, 11, 16
Core Items
Steamboots and Post Haste are two very good items for Hag. I tend to take Steamboots (strength) as the HP and AS they give are very useful to help me do what I do: harass and gank.
Then Kuldra gives more stats and a very powerful hex for ganks.
Luxury Items
Frostfield Plate : A powerful item for Hag. Its main asset is huge vision, which is extremely important to gank and during teamfights. In addition, it provides another nuke, improves resistance to physical damage and is relatively inexpensive given the stats it gives.
Hellflower: The stats from this item and its silence are very useful, but less than Kuldra and therefore Hellflower should not be rushed. If you wish to inflict physical damage or have another silence to overcome a hero who gives you trouble, consider taking it after Kuldra.
Staff of the Master: Very good in late game, when there are a lot of clashes. The HP and reduced cooldown is useful but I usually buy Staff in combination with Restoration Stone. This allows me to have a powerful ultimate and deal mass AOE damage without mana problems.
Restoration Stone: This item is very situational and dangerous to buy. With it you have more than 10 active spells without any notable stat bonus. I personally like Refresher, but you better get used to it before using it in comp games.
Strategy & Tactics
Know your enemy: starting items are Crowns / Totems and Tree Eaters. I tend to play Hag solo mid, so I rush Bottle and try to control the runes.
Try to be aggressive, but never underestimate your opponent. Try to kill creeps when you use Scream on him. This will push the lane, giving you time to go to the runes.
Blink: Hag's most difficult spell, and it is indeed very hard to control. Most people use it as an escape or chasing spell because it is not easy to use as an offensive spell in early game. You must anticipate enemy movements and try to be smarter than him - and only then this spell may help for harrassing.
It can also be used to avoid projectiles. Again, you have to anticipate the movements of your enemies, and also know the animation of each of their spells. When Pyromancer casts stun there's a (akitoes : NOT SO) distinct animation, and recognizing it will make dodging easier.
Many people forget to take advantage of opportunities offered to them when they dodge. They just back. Instead of backing it is often better to blink as close as possible to that Pyromancer to finish him when possible.
Ganks: During ganks you must blink on your target when you know you can kill it in 3-5 seconds with your spells. Otherwise just follow it while your allies slow / stun and finish it. If target tries to stun you, blink on it, dodging his spell then take him down.
Chase: When you chase a hero, it is very important to play mindgames. In comp games, players will try to juke you when you blink. When you click on the floor, they notice the animation and run the other way. In this case you must cancel the blink by pressing Stop, then teleport again on them. This must be done very quickly, otherwise it is useless.
Chasing too far with blink is very dangerous because the opposing team is likely to TP near your target and kill you. You have to be very careful and keep an eye on the minimap at all times.
When you start chasing, your opponent may try to flee by the shortest path to the forest. Cut him off by blinking ahead of him and finish him.
Teamfights: in teamfights, start by using your ultimate, trying to reach as many enemies as possible. If you must choose between STR heroes and casters, aim for casters. Be careful: Don't get focused! Hag dies in a split second when she gets focused.
Try to kill casters with your nukes. Get out of their FOV (by going to the fog) so they do not notice you until the last moment. This will force the opponent to spread. Their tanks and carry will fight yours while you take the casters 2 on 1.
Thank you for reading, and please post feedback !
ElementUser
08-28-2009, 01:52 PM
How do I know this is the real Kuroky?
*demands proof* :D
Regardless, pretty good tips for an unfinished guide :).
ElementUser
08-28-2009, 08:59 PM
After reading some of your tips, I feel like my QoP playstyle (and therefore Wretched Hag playstyle) has improved! Thanks for this :).
Suiraclaw
08-29-2009, 04:48 AM
Great guide.
Happyfish
08-29-2009, 05:47 AM
UTDC.Justin FTW
Staff of the Master: Very good in late game, when there are a lot of clashes. The HP and reduced cooldown is useful but I usually buy Staff in combination with Restoration Stone. This allows me to have a powerful ultimate and deal mass AOE damage without mana problems.
Hmm. If they update Hag to QoP and Staff to new Staff, this will be pretty fail.
I'm surprised there's zero mention of Sacrificial Stone.
Happyfish
08-29-2009, 06:18 AM
well it is a costly build up and since u are opening with ur ulti to hit as many heros as possible, it has the same effect as zues going sac stone and using ulti to KS instead of disable blinks/give vision.
im a pretty big fan of Qop/Hag, she is kinda weak compared to other heros but still very capable under the right conditions
well it is a costly build up and since u are opening with ur ulti to hit as many heros as possible, it has the same effect as zues going sac stone and using ulti to KS instead of disable blinks/give vision.
im a pretty big fan of Qop/Hag, she is kinda weak compared to other heros but still very capable under the right conditions
Well, the way Kuroky plays QoP/Hag according to this guide is to completely ignore heroes during chases and only jump in to get the kill.
akitoes
08-29-2009, 06:25 AM
A little warning to sadfish don't argue with Nome you will just die of oié"_çà(é"çà_u(é(;é"(é"(;é:(;é!("
Just kidding Nome, can't blame you for having an ego, we all have one :)
How do I have an ego? O_o
It just so happens that I actually back my points up with evidence... you may consider that an ego, I just consider it sound logic.
Evidence here:
Ganks: During ganks you must blink on your target when you know you can kill it in 3-5 seconds with your spells. Otherwise just follow it while your allies slow / stun and finish it. If target tries to stun you, blink on it, dodging his spell then take him down.
Happyfish
08-29-2009, 08:14 AM
he does say later on to open up in team fights with ulti hehe
hailey
08-29-2009, 09:02 AM
I like hag she is weak but fun. I enjoy playing her so I don't get mad at the fact
Libra
08-29-2009, 01:31 PM
not to take down your guide but i find boots on this hero kind of a luxery item.
if you play with well placed ganking the teleport is enough to cover ground to chase/flee.
esp. with the haunt ability.
saving alot of gold for staff of the master which in turn increases your survival and damage.
Well, the way Kuroky plays QoP/Hag according to this guide is to completely ignore heroes during chases and only jump in to get the kill.
sacrificial stone is only good for qop if you can get it pretty early...and even then i'd rather have bots/nulls and a puzzlebox
akitoes
08-29-2009, 02:21 PM
not to take down your guide but i find boots on this hero kind of a luxery item.
if you play with well placed ganking the teleport is enough to cover ground to chase/flee.
esp. with the haunt ability.
saving alot of gold for staff of the master which in turn increases your survival and damage.
It's ok it's not mine
It was written by one of the best (if not the best for some) players in dota
ElementUser
08-29-2009, 02:52 PM
It's ok it's not mine
It was written by one of the best (if not the best for some) players in dota
Is there a link to the original guide?
akitoes
08-29-2009, 04:41 PM
If you can read french : http://www.forum-fr.com/showthread.php?t=6002
ElementUser
08-29-2009, 04:53 PM
Yes I can read French :). Thanks
akitoes
08-30-2009, 05:52 AM
If you like something,
bump it
for great justice
CandIeJack
08-30-2009, 07:34 AM
X_X forgot most important item!
Nullstone + Hag = hero that needs to be stunned/silenced twice before she stops blinking. Gives chance to leave combat before it gets worse. Saves lives.
Gangbangjoe
08-30-2009, 07:39 AM
Getting a nullstone costs alot of money, you have blink already imo, just make sure they won't silence you - you can see it coming from a mile away. I'm not a fan of nullstone anyway.
akitoes
08-30-2009, 07:46 AM
The realization that nullstone is a **** item comes with experience
_PINK
08-31-2009, 08:28 PM
Why is Scream maxed before taking Haunt? It seems like a useless skill before teambattles occur, and Haunt should be much more useful for ganking.
ElementUser
08-31-2009, 08:31 PM
Why is Scream maxed before taking Haunt? It seems like a useless skill before teambattles occur, and Haunt should be much more useful for ganking.
Instant 300 AoE damage nuke compared to a long DoT
Drasha
08-31-2009, 08:53 PM
I am tempted to get a portal key on her to portal key in nuke them and blink out before they have time to react. That is just the gorilla warfare general in my talking the army general says the restoration stone staff of the masters nuclear strike is the way to go.
_PINK
08-31-2009, 09:48 PM
Instant 300 AoE damage nuke compared to a long DoT
This still doesn't really explain anything for me. You have to be hugging them to get the nuke off regardless, and because before level 10 you will certainly not be tower diving, it's nearly impossible to use this for anything except a KS on a ganked enemy who was going to die anyways *in my experience*.
Clearly one of my perceptions is wrong, but I don't know which one.
charlieeeh
08-31-2009, 10:13 PM
KuroKy is not the "best" anything :(
Miracle easily the best player on Razer.cgc former KS.int. It's not that hard to "own" with 4 support carrying you through early/mid.
akitoes
09-01-2009, 02:22 AM
the gorilla warfare
indeed sir
ElementUser
09-01-2009, 09:15 AM
This still doesn't really explain anything for me. You have to be hugging them to get the nuke off regardless, and because before level 10 you will certainly not be tower diving, it's nearly impossible to use this for anything except a KS on a ganked enemy who was going to die anyways *in my experience*.
Clearly one of my perceptions is wrong, but I don't know which one.
It also has lower cooldown compared to Haunt. And you don't have to be right next to them for the skill to hit, it has a radius of 400/450/475/500. Scream also provides the opportunity to get 4-5 creeps in a creep wave + harass the enemy, meaning you'll have time to Bottle a rune (I assume your team's courier/your own courier fetched you this by the time you have level 3 scream).
The only time Haunt should be taken before Scream is in dual lanes (and even then...)
*in my experience*
This part of your perception is probably wrong :P. Have you played DotA?
This still doesn't really explain anything for me. You have to be hugging them to get the nuke off regardless, and because before level 10 you will certainly not be tower diving, it's nearly impossible to use this for anything except a KS on a ganked enemy who was going to die anyways *in my experience*.
Clearly one of my perceptions is wrong, but I don't know which one.
all of your perceptions are wrong if you would ever in any lifetime consider not maxing an aoe 300 dmg nuke first on any hero. haunt is not maxed early before hag's spells are very expensive and it is not that useful until level 3-4. i dont think you realize how wide the aoe is, its much wider than the animation. if i get first blood and get some quick nulls and a bottle or something ill start maxing it over blink.
Gangbangjoe
09-01-2009, 11:24 AM
You have to be hugging them to get the nuke off regardless
^do you use the blink to engage or to flee? If you use it to flee I can see your idea about it being hard to get off. Use the blink for agressive play and you'll see it will work wonders.
FuzzyWuzzy
09-01-2009, 11:39 AM
This still doesn't really explain anything for me. You have to be hugging them to get the nuke off regardless, and because before level 10 you will certainly not be tower diving, it's nearly impossible to use this for anything except a KS on a ganked enemy who was going to die anyways *in my experience*.
Clearly one of my perceptions is wrong, but I don't know which one.
Haunt is useful just for the slow. Thus most people go the following skill build -> Blink, Haunt, Scream, Scream, Scream.
The Scream is used to harass the enemy AND last-hit / farm a bit, which Haunt cannot do.
With experience comes the aforementioned ability to both harass and last hit with nukes as well.
_PINK
09-01-2009, 12:04 PM
Ah, it makes more sense now- thank you all. As I've only just been learning to play this hero, I've been playing dual lanes because I didn't want to bring my team down with me too much if I failed.
Mostly I've been attempting to run up and engage the enemy on foot to get my nuke off once, then blinking to chase to get it off again. If I blink to engage originally, I find myself low on mana and without an escape mechanism should the enemy heroes turn around and start hitting me. Plus, if I do get it off, I should be able to use the blink to chase/cut them off. Is this thinking flawed?
Gangbangjoe
09-01-2009, 01:01 PM
Well, if I play against a hag, I certainly won't let her walk next to me. She's a pretty neat hero with a crazy AOE 300 dmg nuke that has very low cooldown. The dot is nothing more then a slow.
So Blink --> Scream --> Haunt --> Autoattack while he's slowed and scream again. By then your blink should be off CD aswell if he still ain't dead.
Lethe
09-01-2009, 01:04 PM
Haunt is useful just for the slow. Thus most people go the following skill build -> Blink, Haunt, Scream, Scream, Scream.
The Scream is used to harass the enemy AND last-hit / farm a bit, which Haunt cannot do.
With experience comes the aforementioned ability to both harass and last hit with nukes as well.
haunt's slow scales as it levels. 20% slow decreasing to 0 over 10 secs sound good to you? Imo it doesn't...especially considering how Hag barely has the mana to use blink dual nuke combo at level 6.
The posted skill build is the ideal build and is the one you should follow in any circumstance, basically.
Gangbangjoe
09-01-2009, 01:06 PM
Yes, I was talking about a maxed Haunt, sorry. I just LOVE hag, I really cannot fail on her. Or I go crazy killmode when I have the feeling that my carry's are noob or I go crazy assisting. But I never have a high deathcount on her.
FuzzyWuzzy
09-01-2009, 01:42 PM
Yes, I was talking about a maxed Haunt, sorry. I just LOVE hag, I really cannot fail on her. Or I go crazy killmode when I have the feeling that my carry's are noob or I go crazy assisting. But I never have a high deathcount on her.
Wow, mate, did you invent the wheel already :D I wonder why would you have a low death count with a hero with blink...
elNiuBi
09-01-2009, 01:54 PM
I only differ in the way you skill her. I give lvl 4 to poison instead of blinking, it's awesome for ganking, for not letting the enemy use portal key nor use bottle/HP pot, and slow is always necesary. I agree with all the other things.
theqat
09-01-2009, 02:00 PM
Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems like the Core Items section didn't make it through entirely--should include 2x Nulls and Bottle, according to the original article. But maybe you are already planning on adding that :)
does noone else go puzzlebox (necro) 3? it's so good on her!
akitoes
09-01-2009, 02:24 PM
Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems like the Core Items section didn't make it through entirely--should include 2x Nulls and Bottle, according to the original article. But maybe you are already planning on adding that :)
o_o ?
i just translated the guide that was on french dota forums
give me the original article !:)
Gangbangjoe
09-01-2009, 02:32 PM
Wow, mate, did you invent the wheel already :D I wonder why would you have a low death count with a hero with blink...
I'm sorry for maximizing my DPS in a fight, not chickening out and using my blink for engage. Yes hag can be played differently, it's like a antimage only blinking away and not contributing at all.
When I play hag, I make sure my team is glad I AM playing hag and not flaming me for always blinking out like 80% of the hag players.
/end of rant
I felt offended :(
theqat
09-01-2009, 02:42 PM
o_o ?
i just translated the guide that was on french dota forums
give me the original article !:)
No no, I was looking at the french forum article too--it includes broken picture links to 2 Null Talismans and a Bottle. That's all I meant :)
Paragon
09-01-2009, 03:11 PM
I'm not sure I would choose to buy Steamboots on this hero. Otherwise I generally agree with the guide.
Phasing is ludicrously overpowered right now.
_PINK
09-01-2009, 03:13 PM
Another question: what exactly does Staff of the Master do for her ultimate?
Also, should Hag be buying the team's wards?
ElementUser
09-01-2009, 04:18 PM
Another question: what exactly does Staff of the Master do for her ultimate?
Also, should Hag be buying the team's wards?
Lowers cooldown from 135s -> 120s/100s/80s
Increases damage from 290/430/600 to 340/530/725
RedPowerVan
09-01-2009, 05:10 PM
I agree with this skill build, but maybe after level 2 teleport I'd raise haunt. Scream is a great skill! So devastating in battles. Open with an initial scream. Use your bat blast, keep your distance until you can scream again, then blink in for the second scream when people start running. It's a horrific amount of damage if everything lands, and it can all happen so fast, not only that but after all the damage is dropped, it's possible for hag to make a quick getaway. As mentioned it has strong farming abilities at its 4th level. Large creep waves can be yours after landing a couple screams.
Fenald
09-01-2009, 05:17 PM
not a single point in shadowstrike until 10........lol?
charlieeeh
09-01-2009, 06:08 PM
^ Are you trying to sound like an idiot? :(
Blink + scream is what makes/breaks qop.
_PINK
09-01-2009, 08:40 PM
Heh, just went 15-1 with her in a pub using the recommended skill build. I think I may see its merits. ;o
FuzzyWuzzy
09-02-2009, 03:48 AM
Heh, just went 15-1 with her in a pub using the recommended skill build. I think I may see its merits. ;o
One game is enough for you, eh? :P
OT, though, don't get Steam Boots please, except when you going DPS build.
There are two item builds on Hag:
Build 1 - Caster:
Post Haste, Bottle, 2 Null's, Totem of Kuldra / Frostfield Plate /Staff of the Master
Build 2 - DPS Caster:
Steam Boots (Str), 1-2 Null's, Hellflower / Shieldbreaker (also known as Loda style :D)
Hellflower + Shieldbreaker gives you 25% amplification on your spells and even more on physical damage, you eat casters in a couple of seconds.
_PINK
09-02-2009, 07:23 PM
O
Build 1 - Caster:
Post Haste, Bottle, 2 Null's, Totem of Kuldra / Frostfield Plate /Staff of the Master
Build 2 - DPS Caster:
Steam Boots (Str), 1-2 Null's, Hellflower / Shieldbreaker (also known as Loda style :D)
Hellflower + Shieldbreaker gives you 25% amplification on your spells and even more on physical damage, you eat casters in a couple of seconds.
In what situation is each preferred? I'd assume that a lot of casters/squishies encourages DPS.
Also, in what order is it recommended to build the hellflower? One Arcana at a time, or start with 3 scarabs and then build Arcanas? Also, steamboots or Arcanas first?
CodysInComa
11-22-2009, 09:50 PM
pretty sure you should get one into haunt before lvl 6 seeing as it makes your ulti slow everything in the aoe
pretty sure you should get one into haunt before lvl 6 seeing as it makes your ulti slow everything in the aoe
Keep in mind, this guide was written for DoTA, where QoP's ulti did not attach haunt to everything it hit. In the current HoN build, I'd probably follow his suggestion for a "dual lane" - aka one point in blink, maxing scream first and haunt second.
DeviousAlpha
12-14-2009, 12:06 PM
How do I have an ego? O_o
It just so happens that I actually back my points up with evidence... you may consider that an ego, I just consider it sound logic.
Evidence here:
This isn't about stealing kills. He is saying, if the kill can be had in 3-5 seconds you MUST DO IT.
This is because hag is extremely squishy, if you're going to gank you want to be in an out as fast as possible.
If you can't kill them that fast, follow them and wear them down, otherwise people can port in their tower to help them, and you've already wasted blink and have no get out thus you die, thus you feed.
If you watch some replays of KuroKy's Akasha you'd see what I mean. Instead of saying he's wrong, maybe consider that your interpretation of what he means is wrong.
Iron`
12-23-2009, 05:44 AM
I always get rank 1 Shadowstrike at 4 but thats from playing too much dota when the ms thing didn't change per rank, Haven't played enough HoN to know if i'd take 1 rank still
akitoes
12-23-2009, 10:33 AM
With new ulti just level 1 blink and alternate ss/scream
SlayerJ
12-28-2009, 03:05 AM
Is Kuroky playing HoN?
edgydeft
12-28-2009, 11:18 PM
http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http://www.forum-fr.com/showthread.php%3Ft%3D6002&sl=fr&tl=en
google translated the original guide. it's not perfect but it's readable.
Whitesock
01-11-2010, 06:30 PM
Hm, I would say that it is better to get haunt as your second skill and then two levels of sonar after because the slow is at the start a lot more useful than just 85 dmg.
ElementUser
01-11-2010, 08:29 PM
kuroky is indeed playing hon fulltime... and kicking some ass
http://replays.heroesofnewerth.com/match_replay.php?mid=20892998
So which hero was he?
PanterA
01-11-2010, 10:40 PM
kuroky is indeed playing hon fulltime... and kicking some ass
http://replays.heroesofnewerth.com/match_replay.php?mid=20892998
sexdwarf
01-16-2010, 12:30 PM
Im gonna guess he was pebbles?
The names sound kinda similar
corerock - kuroky
akitoes
01-17-2010, 06:21 PM
lol corerock
nice
Von_Moltke
01-17-2010, 09:41 PM
Korok/Corerock isn't Kuroky LOL.
A1ias
01-17-2010, 10:16 PM
Hm, I would say that it is better to get haunt as your second skill and then two levels of sonar after because the slow is at the start a lot more useful than just 85 dmg.
You are doing it wrong. You ain't gonna kill **** with just a slow on QoP; using her scream allows her to farm in lane while harressing heroes, damage more then one hero at a time during ganks and maxing it by level 8 or so allows for huge dmg at a early phase in a game especially consider such spells become more and more useless as the game goes on.