Support Heroes/Babysitting

[fulgorestyle]

now i haven't played all of the support heroes, but, after playing Warlock (modified) and Dazzle (modified) they are not good babysitters at at all.

warlock's heal changed removes his lane control as an early game babysitter. warlock is pretty much an int tank/pseudo dpser

dazzle's grave changed removes his lane control AND end game. he serves practically no purpose now. in a typical 40 minute game, any fight dazzle is apart of grave would have usage. it can be used to grave the carry so the carry can kill, grave yourself so you can scroll out, gave a team mate so he can scroll out.

nymphora, on the other hand, has a ground targetted aoe heal/damage spell. it's like omni, except not targetted and WAY more area of effect.

i don't understand why you would slightly modify (i call it a nerf to the 2 most used babysitters in the entire game) their character defining skills which inadvertently completely destroys their control/role early/mid game. late game is doesn't matter since they are just food anyway, but at least on dazzle you could stay alive long enough to grave someone..

meh, i don't know, as of right now it definitely seems way more favorable to just pick all dpsers and auto attack with battlefuries to win games now. fragile carries (anti mage, scout, bloodseeker etc) have practically the same chance to farm with a warlock/dazzle as they would with any other hero.

i play -only- support heroes in dota, tried it here, the only one that i see useable are puppet master (obvious reasons) and nymph.

[ubidat]

Yeah, thats pretty much true.
I also find that all the int casters aren't nearly as weak as they are in dota.

-ubi

[Korgan]

I agree too.

Warlock and Shadow Priest are the two examples why it's not a good idea to copy DotA heroes only halfway.

I don't know why they do that.
It really seems like: "I liked that hero, but Icefrog was to stupid to do him right, we can do that better"

Imho is Kraken the only example where the changes of a DotA copy were good.
But we now lack the best tank :)

[Adam]

I prefer both those int heroes now as overall heroes, but you are right in their lack of babysitting capabilities. Demented Shaman still does a nice job with his spam heal - I find that his ult is better than Shallow Grave. Being able to reduce an entire team 18 armor while raising most of your team 18 armor is crazy good, and the cooldown is pretty damn low.

[TLSHadow]

Demented Shaman is a pretty baller hero. He has more of a situational role then the old SP though. I like SP better for babysitting, but DS brings some better overall skills. It's bittersweet.

[fulgorestyle]

I prefer both those int heroes now as overall heroes, but you are right in their lack of babysitting capabilities. Demented Shaman still does a nice job with his spam heal - I find that his ult is better than Shallow Grave. Being able to reduce an entire team 18 armor while raising most of your team 18 armor is crazy good, and the cooldown is pretty damn low.

his ult (weave) is the same as dota ult (weave), shallow grave and weave got swapped in a past version and HoN is current up to that point

so the only change is arcane hide <-> grave



Demented Shaman is a pretty baller hero. He has more of a situational role then the old SP though. I like SP better for babysitting, but DS brings some better overall skills. It's bittersweet.

only 1 skill got changed, so i don't see the "better overall skills" part

[Fielding]

I agree too.

Warlock and Shadow Priest are the two examples why it's not a good idea to copy DotA heroes only halfway.

I don't know why they do that.
It really seems like: "I liked that hero, but Icefrog was to stupid to do him right, we can do that better"

Imho is Kraken the only example where the changes of a DotA copy were good.
But we now lack the best tank :)

The reason for this is simple: almost all of the non-dota-cloned heroes are just now getting their first real iterative testing and work done on them.

When a hero gets released in dota, it's been through weeks (sometimes months) of testing and iteration. Don't worry, after release we'll be putting all of our heroes through a similar process, and only the best will make it through to retail.

You're playing a beta, and as such, some of the content hasn't been tested and perfected. Predator, Arachna and Madman are good examples of this (and they're getting some improvements in the next patch). There are small examples, too, like Shaman's arcane hide. We've got some changes coming to that skill that I believe are a great improvement, I'm not 100% sure yet if they will make it in for the next patch or not.

[Kietharr]

Voodoo Witchdoctor is actually a good babysitter now, you have to forego curse until midgame if you do but stun and warlock's old heal make him an even better babysitter than Warlock was. Hellbringer is still a good hero, just not a babysitter anymore.

[fulgorestyle]

The reason for this is simple: almost all of the non-dota-cloned heroes are just now getting their first real iterative testing and work done on them.

When a hero gets released in dota, it's been through weeks (sometimes months) of testing and iteration. Don't worry, after release we'll be putting all of our heroes through a similar process, and only the best will make it through to retail.

You're playing a beta, and as such, some of the content hasn't been tested and perfected. Predator, Arachna and Madman are good examples of this (and they're getting some improvements in the next patch). There are small examples, too, like Shaman's arcane hide. We've got some changes coming to that skill that I believe are a great improvement, I'm not 100% sure yet if they will make it in for the next patch or not.

nice thanks this is what i like to hear