Bloodbourne Cleaver (Strength Hard-Carry Item)

[Passthechips]

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http://i35.tinypic.com/qzk8ye.jpg
(5600)
Bloodbourne Cleaver
+30 Strength
+46 Damage

Passive:

Carnage
Adds 6% of missing health as damage.




This item is made to provide Strength hard carries a viable late game item to work for and is basically meant to be the Wingbow for Strength heroes. It costs relatively high with hard to farm pieces but offers amazing stats for a strength hero giving a passive total of + 76 damage right off the bat. The passive however is what makes this item amazing for a Strength hero.


Here is an example. Lets assume a Strength hero is at 1000/2000 health. So he is missing a total of 1000 health. 6% of 1000 is 60. So the Strength hero would gain +60 damage. The more health the hero loses the more damage the hero gains. The beauty of this item is that Agility heroes can't really benefit from Bloodbourne Cleaver as their health pools are way to small to gain benefit from the item and that Bloodbourne Cleaver has amazing synergy with other Strength carry items, especially Insanitarius. I believe this item would allow Strength Hard-carries like :pred: :mali: :hamm: :warb: see much more light, especially competitively, as they would be able to build items on par to other Agility carry items.

[Lo12d_Nav]

I really like this concept. I wonder if 8% is even a bit low, or if giving attack speed as well as damage would help (since strength heroes usually lack attack speed, not damage, which is why their DPS output is lower than agility heroes).

Also, you need a poll so I can vote yes!

[Passthechips]

I really like this concept. I wonder if 8% is even a bit low, or if giving attack speed as well as damage would help (since strength heroes usually lack attack speed, not damage, which is why their DPS output is lower than agility heroes).

Also, you need a poll so I can vote yes!

I was considering making the effect stronger but I realized it could easily add like + 200 damage depending on the hero. I chose 8% as a good number. Also keep in mind that many strength heroes have ways of keeping their opponent in place/catching up that many agility heroes don't have.


I forgot the poll :(, asking a mod to add one!

[LandShark]

I love this idea that would be so badass

[WHS]

Good idea. What if % missing health added % attack speed? Since STR heroes are lacking.

[kiruh]

i think its perfect

[Lo12d_Nav]

Here you go, this ought to help with the poll:
http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?t=77835

[Passthechips]

Thanks poll added.

[Thats_Bull]

I don't think you should count out agility heroes that get frostburn -> frostwolf skull and end up with 2.5k hp themself late game. Still, I think it's a good idea, and would fit in nicely with the other items currently available for carries, so maybe geobane-savage mace wouldn't be the build for every situation.

[XeionX]

why not do :AxeOfTheMalphai: plus :Warpcleft: instead? just a thought

[Nipez]

I think the design of this item is sublime, make the basedamagebonus 50, rounding up 4 damage isnt unbalanced and it makes the item more aesthetically pleasing, and that matters :P
I think you would dare make it 10% it wouldnt make it overpowered, and even if it is a tad much, it is good to give the item some buzz from the get go, to make it part of the build of strengthcarries, like maliken, which you've made a great guide to^^...

Im just imagining the good times of maliken with steams, blood chalice, insanitarius and this, all you need, madness is bound to follow... then add behemoth's and symbol of rage... I wager you cant be killed...

Or if they ever implement centaur or, the horror, huskar...

[fenrixx]

Finally a good STR carry item. Maybe STR carries will se more light in comp play if this is goes through.

[Passthechips]

Bump.

[GauntElakor]

Really like the item, but I think you should make it 10% as most STR heroes are ignored in favor of AGI and INT heroes to receive the damage. Thus STR heroes usually don't take as much damage as the other heroes.

[MrSnowman]

Really like the item, but I think you should make it 10% as most STR heroes are ignored in favor of AGI and INT heroes to receive the damage. Thus STR heroes usually don't take as much damage as the other heroes.
How does this make sense? 8% is very balanced imo. Think about that every strength hero with this item who simply build a tank/AS build (tankbuilding maliken with this item) will become insanely hard to kill and will hit very hard.

Let's assume 2700 hp on a strenght hero (with this item builds will tend in this direction). at 50% hp that's 108+ damage. Maliken get's 1.4 more AS per 1% missing. 70 attackspeed. Pretty much a warpcleft. If a STR hero builds a deamonic breastplate he get's about the same effect.
76(base damage with this item)+108=184, just from this item. (at 50% hp)
It's a very powerfull item. But it's hard to build and it's definetly more useful for strenght heroes. I like it.

[Connect]

I gotta say no to this one. Pred already eats his way throu people in seconds with just a little farm. With this he could simply eat the whole team.

[Passthechips]

I gotta say no to this one. Pred already eats his way throu people in seconds with just a little farm. With this he could simply eat the whole team.

You could argue that most agility carries do that with Wingbow.

[Connect]

Sadly, yes. But just imagining this on pred makes me cry inside. Sorry buddy. The idea is really cool tho. I like it.

[Nightflux]

I have to agree with the complaints, but i do love your idea this would make more melee heroes (str) more viable competetively and would help balance a little. but it needs to be reworked. imagine a devo with this item sitting at 3k+ hp getting damage from this item and from his ulti he would hit like a Train

[Leyst]

I'd recommend making it based on max hp. (something like 8% of your max hp as dmg) makes it stronger for str heroes. Since otherwise you are basically asking str heroes to run around at 10% hp to gain ANY benefit from this.

Really like the idea though.

[RUSty_]

Like the concept, too strong for the game imo.

[Utorrent]

GREAT TIEM DUDE 1010582190582159021890 STARS OF 5 maximum, FINally some good items f?r STR heroes, especially maliken :D but as some1 said: "make it to deal extra 10% damage based on maximum hp" :D

[Passthechips]

Like the concept, too strong for the game imo.

Numbers of course can be adjusted. It could easily be 5-6%.

Try comparing this item for Strength heroes to something like Wingbow for Agility heroes.

[RUSty_]

Numbers of course can be adjusted. It could easily be 5-6%.

Try comparing this item for Strength heroes to something like Wingbow for Agility heroes.
I'm talking about the concept being too strong regardless of numbers. And even so attack damage is not an issue with str heroes being able to carry into late game, its the fact that their main attribute doesn't increase attackspeed.
Reasons why I believe this:
Current str heroes that are considered carries have spells that affect their attackspeed.
The reason charged hammer was changed from using dancing blade to using warpcleft was specifically to make an item like wingbow for int/str heroes.

[Token]

why not do :AxeOfTheMalphai: plus :Warpcleft: instead? just a thought

Definitely better, and add a small recipe cost, such as 400g

i can see this making pred ridiculously op and banned everygame. and making maliken viable

[GauntElakor]

I gotta say no to this one. Pred already eats his way throu people in seconds with just a little farm. With this he could simply eat the whole team.

As of yet this item boosts heroes with lacking HP. And in a team fight with pred banging away at everything he wont lack any significant HP.
On the other hand this enables pred to walk around with minimal HP and dominate 1v1.

[Liability]

I don't know. I feel that Strength heroes won't really benefit that much from the item. Personally, I would've liked it more if it was more like Centaur's Double Edge. While activated, it will cause your attacks to deal a % of your life and an equal amount to your target. This way, it will scale with your health pool.

Right now it feels more like Maliken just got a second Zeal.

[Passthechips]

Max hp makes it much stronger however. It could possibly work, but only with a smaller number than 10%.

Also popular!

[fenrixx]

I like the idea. I would love to see this item being implemented because there aren't many str carry items in the game atm. Just keep the str, as it will favour str heroes more and maybe make it so it gives +as in addition to +dmg. And lower the % maybe to make it balanced if you choose to give it +% too. Otherwise i like this item and would love to see it in the game.

[Vanarchy]

This item needs some kind of drawback.

Don't get me wrong - I like the overall idea, but mechanic is absolutely overpowered atm. In your example STR hero gets +150 damage being at 1000/2000 HP and also gets 30 * 19 = 570 max HP from the same item. Any agility hero would grab this without doubts, cause this item provides both good survivability and HUGE damage. This item is 9000 times better then Doom Bringer, though it costs 200 gold less. I am not kidding about 9000..!

Solution: add a solid drawback. The best idea I currently have is:

Adds 8% of your missing health as attack damage.
You loose 8% of your current health (current, not maximum) every time you attack.
You cannot kill yourself with this.
Can be toggled on/off.


This way damage will be truly Bloodbourne. Also, reduce the plain +46 bonus damage, especially considering the fact that you've buffed strength. Actually, you shoud suggest this as a replacement of Doom Bringer. Doom Bringer is a very, very stupid item that begs to be banished and replaced with something more playable. Something that grants great power, power that comes with a price.

[RecoOn]

Maliken on like zero health would kill those enemies in on hit :O

[GauntElakor]

If Maliken walks around with zero health and kills people with that they deserve to die, here is why:
:behe:: BOOM
:poll:: ZAPP
:magm:: Stun?
:gaun:: BOOM again
:wret:: Scream or blink?
:engi:: BOOM yet again
:arma:: Atchoo...
:plag:: BOOM?
:fayd:: Stun?
:witc:: BOOM
:elec:: ZAPP again
:souls:: Just hit him once
:arac:: ^^^^^^^^
:phar:: Soul-BOOM
:mora:: Axe-BOOM
:madm:: DO A BARREL ROLL...duh
:bubb:: Sing or surf
:devo:: OMNONMNOM
:soulr:: "Q"
:andr:: Comet-BOOM
:pest:: Spike-BOOM?
:flin:: BOOM-BOOM-BOOM
:legi:: BOO...Spin!!
:balp:: BOOM-OVERKILL
:warb:: Run+Wolves
:deme:: Stun and run
:slit:: Poison him
:accu:: Shield-BOOM
:pebb:: Throw-BOOM
:bomb:: Simply-BOOM
:krak:: Water-BOOM
:vood:: Aie lost mah MOJO
:defi:: Soul-BOOM
:scou:: Whackawhackawhacka
:pand:: Panda-BOOM
:keep:: Good luck killing him
:dark:: Just do something
:sand:: Sand-BOOM
:ophe:: OP-BOOM
:jera:: Health-BOOM
:valk:: Several BOOMs
:corr:: ZAPP....
:ramp:: BOOM-BOOM-BOOM
:nymp:: Faerie-BOOM
:tund:: Ice-BOOM
:hell:: Curses
:tort:: Sword-BOOM
:chro:: Time-BOOM
:pyro:: Fire-BOOM
:nigh:: Smoke-BOOM
:glad:: You get it...
:hamm:: Stop, HAMMER TIME
:dead:: TREE-BOOM
:thun:: Thunder-BOOM
:bloo:: BLOOD
:pupp:: Dance puppet, Dance
:moon:: Moon-BOOM
:doct:: Electro-BOOM
:glac:: Ice-BOOM?
:temp:: Odd-BOOM
:blac:: MULTI-BOOM
:pred:: He just stands there
:mali:: Oh, wait, failed troll
:chip:: Rocket-BOOM
:zeph:: Wind-BOOM

Also, you dont have gold shield, your argument is invalid.

[Snipez608]

i Think its a really good idea

[Grother]

Ok, now imagine Maliken with it and post it again.

[vinrek]

yay finally a strength-only hard-carry item :)

[Dr_Hobo`]

This would also help buff some of the melee carries because ranged agility has been hogging top tier for far to long (aka forever and ever)

[YourSoSexy]

Lol GauntElakor, not just was that 100% correct it was hilarious. This item is an awesome idea and i would love to see it implemented into HoN, but to say an Agil can't use it? Ex. MB grabs a helm has a good chunk of life late game especially with frost-burn/Frost-wolf and then the 32+ Strength from this item but yes it is clearly more beneficial on a Str. hero, it also synergizes well with a Behe but i would love to see this in HoN i feel like more items should be implemented not just more heroes. (save a few items that are being put into it)

[Melopahn]

lets speed this up i want to get it on predator.

[Alltec]

YES I LOVE THIS! My fav heros are all str and this item would be an awsome addition to some carry strs, also i dont think its OP at all because of the massive cost

[Alten]

A great idea-but there are some balance issues...

1: Agi carries often approach over 2k (sometimes even 3k, for agi that needs to build tanky) late game with standard picks like geowolf; imagine any Geowolf ranged carry with this item... terrifying :(

2: Maliken is already very powerful and very viable... This item seems tailored to him, and would probably push him into win-every-lategame monster status. Considering that, he'll be around 2k health at level 16, popping a shrunken on him while he's low would probably make him unkillable by all standards while also dealing the highest dps in the game.

Probably a few others, too....

[General_Fei]

Holy hell in a bell, give this to Maliken or Predator and they'd be annihilating left and right.

[Dawnbringer]

Lets take a Maliken with 3000 HP.

So he is missing 80% of it (2400). +144 damage and his AS from hellbourne Zeal.

RAAAAAPEEEEE :)

[Dawnbringer]

I'd recommend making it based on max hp. (something like 8% of your max hp as dmg) makes it stronger for str heroes. Since otherwise you are basically asking str heroes to run around at 10% hp to gain ANY benefit from this.

Really like the idea though.
That would be OP.

A 3000 hp str carry (not unreasonable to assume that will happen at all) will get +240 damage if it is 8% of your max HP then +76 AFTER that. That makes it better than a doombringer.

[Gridlocked]

Make it into a massive smashy hammer and you have a deal sir! I think having Cleaver in the name will cause confusion. Bloodbourne Mallet baby.

[Pazuzu]

Would love to see this item.

On ra amazing.

[Boltzen]

This thing on Maliken.
+1

[Melto]

I Created this item In-game... It is very cool but a bit Op... (especially on Maliken XD)

[Piratenews]

This thing seems a bit too powerful imo as what it does is making str carries incredebly unbalanced. Those already mentioned are maliken and predator. Though it does seem fairly tailored for those heroes, Immagine this on a rampage, a panda who loves his flurry, the thundra who just cold shouldered and stunned u for 4 sec, the hammerstorm with ult rank 3 activated, the amun ra who used Q and W to remove his health, the gladiator who just whipped ur entire team, the kraken who splashed you, the drunken master spinning arround you, the armadon who's derping arround with 10% HP left, whom you still can't kill. The pestillence who gave u 15 - armor, the pharao who's got u stuck for 5 seconds. Not only does this item make current str carries too powerful, it also gives every str hero a carry potential.

Let's also take a look at the item your comparing it too, the wingbow.
30+ attack speed
30+ Agi
30+ Dodge
30+ damage

Let's have a look at what this gives agi heroes, int and str heroes
Agi heroes gain 60 dmg, 60 attack speed, 4,2 armor and 30 dodge.
Str heroes gain 30 dmg, 60 attack speed, 4,2 armor and 30 dodge.
Int heroes gain 30 dmg, 60 attack speed, 4,2 armor and 30 dodge.

This item is not only viable for agility carries because it gives agility. It's extremely good for strenght carries as they gain a lot more attack speed which is what they lack. It also scales extremely well with malikens 40+ dammage sword, predators insane passive etc etc but it appears most people refuse see this because the tooltip says agility. There is offcourse items that are more prefered than a wingbow for a strenght hero, but that does not make the item bad for them.

Same goes for items like hellflower. If you are playing an agi hero with a low mana pool and its affecting you from doing what you want. The hellflower will give you 50 dammage, 30 attack speed, 230 mana, 0.8 mana reg from the int and another 225% mana reg. Not only that, you can also silence & perplex someone for 5 seconds, increase the dammage they take by 20% and see exactely where they go should they try to juke you.

So imo, hon does not need more items at the moment, with some imagination you should be able to build any hero without any problems with the current items available to you.

[Silk_Road]

Imo this will simply be a core on any carry. Providing lots of HP and dps, it will be a must on most heros. If you made it for melee only and perhaps used the 2 +10 str items for less str overall, it would be better.

[Skyve]

Problem with this item is that it adds a lot of damage potential with a lot of survivability. Personally I don't think those two SHOULD be combined.

[Passthechips]

It's overpowered, I realized that a while ago. Probably gonna update the effect slightly.

[Muteny]

Please add this tired of all the agi carries getting all the love

[Feforever]

I like the concept. Hope it gets implemented. May Elesh be with u OP (with us actually). :3

[GeneralNoob9]

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaay toooo op... If you want maliken to be banned competitively 24/7 then sure, have this item implemented.

[Immorttal]

99% missing health = 594 dmg :O

[EdgarAlanPro]

It would be nice to see this implemented, or something very similar for str carries. It may be op in a few extreme situations, but so can a Wingbow dodging 90% of hits by luck, Charged Hammer procing every hit, Savage stunlock etc. Str carries get no love in competitive. Plus it could be viable on non-str. Could always be an attack modifier for balance.

[OJPhoenix]

As broken as this thing could potentially be, I really like the idea of a hardcore STR carry item and would gladly see something along these lines :)

[ZulukinG2010]

I think 1-2% should make it more balanced.