Ronin

[Sabre]

Hi and thanks for looking, this is my second attempt at a hero, I think he would be an interesting midgame ganker, with a possibility to carry late, much like his nemesis swiftblade.

Numbers can change (especially stats)! Vote on concept!
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Changelog:
Reduced Damage Bonus on Marked Foe
Removed Attack speed debuff from Hammer
Removed Damage Bonus on stun from Nail
Reduced Duration of Swirl and Marked Foe
Reduced slow on Swirl
Increased slow on Swirl, removed vision loss from swirl
Reduced Base Mana
Reduced Attack Speed Debuff on Swirl
Increased Range on Marked Foe and Death Before Dishonour
Increased AoE and health gained on Death Before Dishonour
Scaled range on Marked Foe to increase with level.
Increased slow on Swirl and Switchblade(Hammer)
Removed Attack speed debuff on Switchblade(Hammer)
Reworked Dishonour Before Death slightly.
Removed Bash from Nail
Increased Evasion on Nail
Reduced damage on Marked Foe slightly
Changed Marked Foe to have a static distance
Added Staff of the Master interaction
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Name: The Ronin
Belongs to: Hellbourne
Stat Primary: Agility
Base HP: 308
Base MP: 156
Base Movespeed: 305
Attack Range: Melee
Base Armor: 3.36
Base Damage: 26-30 (+24 Starting AGI) = 50-54

STATS:
Str: 20 + 1.8
Agi: 24 + 2.8
Int: 14 + 1.5

Stats Balancing Notes: Mana should constrain the Ronin to prevent him from simply spamming his spells mindlessly, and his agility should scale well, allowing him to have a significant attack speed without much investment in raw IAS.
Visual: http://th05.deviantart.net/fs44/300W/f/2009/100/c/5/c56309b4b3b664062c7950f2ab0ccc5b.jpg(not my own work.)
Key visual point: The Ronin weilds two blades: an oversized Katana, not quite Sephiroth-esque but large nonetheless, and a wakazashi.
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Background: Dishonoured and subsequently slain by Swiftblade in battle, the spirit known only as The Ronin was bound to haunt Newerth as punishment. As Swiftblade sought to join the legion in the battle against the hellbourne, The Ronin naturally took up arms with the Hellbourne in hopes of revenge on those who would bind him to Newerth.

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Abilities:


http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/warhammeronline/images/c/c4/WE_Vehement_blades.png Switchblade
The ronin is practiced in many fighting techniques, and is capable of techniques that use either one of his blades for maximum effect.

Effect: The Ronin can toggle between either fighting technique, Hammer and Nail, and each gives different bonuses in combat.


http://www.guildwars.com/images/professions/skillicons/assassin/ninetailstrike.jpg Hammer
The Ronin favours overhead slashes with his large katana, crushing the body of those he strikes, at the expense of his dexterity.

Effect: The Ronin slows the movement speed by 4%/5%/7%/8% of those he hits for 3 seconds. Stacks up to 5 times.

Hammer is an attack modifier, and does not stack with other attack modifiers.

http://www.guildwars.com/images/professions/skillicons/assassin/repeatingstrike.jpg Nail
The Ronin favours his nimble wakizashi, darting about and deflecting blows at the expense of his own crushing swings.

Effect: The Ronin gains 15%/20%/25%/30% evasion from physical attacks from the front. The Ronin has 7.5%/10%/12.5%/15% evasion from the side and rear.

Nail is an evasion ability. Evasion does not stack with itself, and instead uses the highest available value.

Type: Passive/Toggle
Cast Time: 0
Mana Cost: 25
Cooldown: 5
Notes: Note that each ability is weaker then singular versions on other heroes, which is made up for by the versatility offered by being able to toggle between both options. There should be a noticeable visual difference in his attacks when he switches between styles.
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http://www.guildwars.com/images/professions/skillicons/assassin/exhaustingassault.jpg Swirl of Battle
With a point of his sword the ronin magnifies the cacophony of battle in the ears of one opponent, dazing them and hampering their senses.

Effect: Target enemy hero takes 25/75/125/175 magical damage and has their attack speed slowed by 7%/8%/9%/10% for every enemy unit within 500 aoe. If at any time no enemy units are within 500 of the enemy hero, the enemy hero is slowed by 20%/30%/40%/50%.

Type: Single Target Magic Spell (Debuff)
Range: 300
Duration: 5/6/7/8 seconds
Mana Cost: 135/125/105/95
Cooldown: 20 seconds Notes: A strong 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' snare, forcing aggressive players to temper themselves lest they press too far, but also hampering heroes backed by large creep pushes. Good utility and powerful effect balanced out by a lack of control over which effect takes place, and a strong possibility for the ability to have a minimal effect against a smart opponent.
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http://www.guildwars.com/images/professions/skillicons/assassin/unsuspectingstrike.jpg Marked Foe
The Ronin is able to channel his vengance to attune his blades to a single enemy, greatly increasing their potential against the marked foe.

Effect: Target enemy hero's health regeneration rate is reduced by 100% and the enemy hero takes an additional 15/25/35/45 physical damage whenever they are damaged physically by The Ronin's attacks.

If the marked foe moves more than 1500 away from The Ronin, or gains hit points, The Ronin materializes instantly behind them and attacks, dealing 125/175/225/275 additional damage. After the attack is complete, marked foe automatically ends.

Type: Single Target Magic Spell (Debuff)
Range: 650
Duration: 6/7/8/9 seconds
Mana Cost: 140
Cooldown: 25 seconds
Notes: Another 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' type of spell. This is The Ronin's bread and butter, giving him strong damage output and a threatening nuke that can almost act like a snare.

Also, the spell ends immediately AFTER the materializing attack, so the actual bonus damage done is 15/25/35/45 + 125/175/225/275.

This is once again balanced out by the fact that much of its effects are conditional. At maximum this spell can deal out 275 + (75 * (number of attacks in 10 seconds plus 1)) but that would involve a lot of luck and probably a portal key. This effect can be countered easily by some clever juking, or simply a disable, and yet consumes a large amount of the Ronin's mana pool, so by wasting this debuff, the Ronin is severely set back.

If a hero affected by Marked Foe uses a homecoming stone, post-haste, or teleports via nymph's ult (and any similar effects) Marked Foe ends without teleporting the Ronin. (If you're wondering, this caveat is not unprecedented, and already exists to prevent Kraken from dragging you into his fountain)
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http://www.guildwars.com/images/professions/skillicons/assassin/return.jpg Dishonour Before Death(ult)
Refusing to die on the battlefield in failure once more, The Ronin sends his spirit quickly rushing away to live to fight again, jarring those nearby with raging winds.

Effect: If an attack or effect would kill The Ronin, that effect is negated and The Ronin materializes 900/1200/1500 in the direction of his respective fountain. All debuffs are removed from The Ronin.

Enemies within 400/600/800 of The Ronin when this ability activates take 50/100/150(100/150/200) physical damage.

The Ronin's hp is changed to 50/75/100 (75/100/125) + 15/25/35 (25/35/45) x the number of enemies hit by this ability.

This ability is boosted by the Staff of the Master. Staff of the Master increases the amount of HP Ronin receives and increases damage dealt.

Type: Passive
Mana Cost: 150/250/350
Cooldown: 160/110/60 seconds Notes: DBD cannot activate while stunned or silenced. Note that this effect does not heal him, but instead sets his life total, even if his current life total is higher then his the life total set by this ability. Note that the exact location is uncontrollable, but it will of course not put the Ronin in an area he cannot walk away from (thanks to HoN's handy pathing system). The triggering attack is completely negated, and will not trigger the cooldown of portal key and similar abilities, much like null stone.
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Summary: So here we have a strong agility hero with a strong support/ganking skillset that helps him tower dive and take out heroes, and since it does physical damage in tandem with his attacks (for the most part) The Ronin can scale to carry the team if he does well midgame. I think he mirrors Swiftblade enough to make sure they seem related, without making him out to be a clone or evil twin.
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So what are your thoughts?

[Prophecy1]

Win. Thumbs up.

[Helgeran1]

I'd like to see the stances being more iconic, like having one good effect each. Perhaps only evasion (I like angle mattering here, makes for more manuevering) for the small sword and bash (and bonus damage on proc) for the large sword making one stance more defensive and one more offensive.

[Duey]

I like the idea, a few things though:

Swirl of Battle probably needs a cap on the slow it can do for the number of enemies near you, maybe 75 or 87.5 (both multiples of 12.5), since if you land this on an opponent in a team battle or if they happen to be pushing a creep wave, it would be an 8 second movement disable (slow would be 100%).

Dishonour before Death seems like it wouldn't ever be that incredible, since if you're ganked there will only be 1 opponent for the AOE death effect to hit, and thats if they're in range. I think the spell either needs to have a base amount of health for each level (maybe 100/200/300?) and then the additional health comes from the number of enemies hit. An alternative to that is that the number is influenced by anyone in range of the AOE, including allies in neutral creeps. This could be used so that before you die you can either run into your own creep wave or a neutral spawn.

Good job though, i like it :)

[Sabre]

Win. Thumbs up.

Really? The change in swirl was enough?

[Rentaromon]

maybe make some of the skills a single skill and not 2 in each? right now he has 7 skills. and some of them are op.

[Sabre]

Made some changes in response to feedback, let me know what you think.

Helgan- is a larger crushing blade literally beating the speed from someone's legs not iconic enough? :(

[Isin]

Zombie samurai!

But with the third skill, the enemy could just run into their base and when you teleport to them you get ****ed over by the towers? Maybe make the teleport an active skill that gets enabled when the marked enemy is 1700+ range away.

[Spaztastik]

im guessing the stance idea came from my blade dancer idea :3

It seems people are using my ideas everywhere *sigh*

But if you didnt, thas awrite :P

[Kynth]

Zombie samurai!

But with the third skill, the enemy could just run into their base and when you teleport to them you get ****ed over by the towers? Maybe make the teleport an active skill that gets enabled when the marked enemy is 1700+ range away.

1700 is quite a distance, and in a way that's how you counter it, 275+55+normal damage really hurts. As the samurai you have to make sure that person won't being pulling that trick on you.

@duewfoe: the skill will only slow if no one is around, so your attack speed is the only thing affected if there is someone within 500.

[Sabre]

Isin- I think you're overestimating how far 1700 units is. You would have to be inside their own base for that to take effect, and chase them to the tower. At that point I think you've signed your own death warrant.

Spaz- I in fact did not read you blade dancer concept, I came up with this guy while away (and internet free) at my cottage. Also- feedback? thoughts?

[Rentaromon]

im guessing the stance idea came from my blade dancer idea :3

It seems people are using my ideas everywhere *sigh*

But if you didnt, thas awrite :P
your full of your self, you think your the first person to think of stances? hell i thoguth of it and i havent seen your blade guy yet.

[Sabre]

Lets try and get back on topic?

Thanks Kynth for clarifying things

Comments and suggestions pertaining to the hero?

[Hippie]

I actually am a big fan - heroes that force the enemies to really think about their positioning (Devourer, Valkyrie, and a couple others) are always a blast to play because they keep the enemy guessing - even moreso with this guy, since they don't know which position you want them in and they have to take a guess as to whether it's better to pull back or play up.

Definite T-up.

[PoopyDesires]

1. I have never been a fan of switch abilities for a core reason. They are unoriginal. Sure we don't have any, but look at the components. They're just two very boring abilities stuck into one.

2. Not actually a bad idea but it just seems a bit random. If you, once again, look at the components its a rather boring spell (Damage+slow) with a 2nd element added in that doesn't really fix it.

3. Great idea. Nothing more.

4. Definitely don't like this. Just a ton of random effects loaded onto reincarnation.

The spells aren't that bad at all. But it's not realistic. I definitely cannot envision this hero ever being in the game. It hardly has any synergy and no really original concepts, the spells don't come together in one big picture, they're just a couple of rather overcomplex spells floating around.

Please respect my opinion next time.

[Vapor]

Dear Blar, I hope I can educate you on forum posting with this easy to understand guide to:

How Constructive Criticism Works

You like it: Horray! Pie for all!
You don't like it: Boo, and here's why AND possible ideas on how to make it better.


How Whining Works

You like it: Horray! Pie for all!
You don't like it: Boo. You suck and/or I'm better than you. The end.



I'm a helper!

Seriously though this introduces a new mechanic to the game and an idea like this could even promote me to shell out 30 dollars instead of having the same cookie cutter heroes I've seen. Let's not be douches mkay?

[PoopyDesires]

Got it, so even though you're telling me I only believe my opinion to be true you're basically writing an underlying message that says only your opinion matters.

Am I not entitled to my own opinion? I even told him why in the most specific sense possible.

[Rentaromon]

blarfles you wont get haters if you try to be a bit nicer. your latest review for this hero was rather rude.

[Vapor]

The difference between the two is the tone of how you present your case against the subject and the possible solutions (or in this case lack thereof) of how it could be done better.

That is the simple difference from being helpful and being a douche.

I'm no mapmaker, builder, or provide into the creative process when it comes to gaming. What I am however is an excellent beta tester and constructive critic. "This doesn't work out too well, why not try this or that?" So no, he doesn't have to respect your opinion because it's a baseless rant.

[PoopyDesires]

The comment I left at the bottom did not concern my review, it concered a private conversation between us.

[Sabre]

While it does concern a private conversation between Blar and myself, regardless the 'please respect my opinion' was totally uncalled for. I never disrespected your opinion. In fact I asked for it. Try to get off your high horse every now and then. I can copy and paste the conversation if you wish.

In response to your comments-

In that case stuns are unorigional, damage is unorigional, hit points are unorigional. The only hero I can think of with a skill like this is Wildsoul, and even then thats a total change. The 'origionality' of this is making the player choose which mode will be more effective. Due to the weaker-then-normal nature of either effect, it means the player can't rely on either skill the whole game to play optimally. There will be times when the minibash and evaision won't help, like when they start running away, but when standing toe to toe you're probably better off with the minibash and evaision. Its not complex I admit, but show me another here with a similar ability before you start calling it unorigional.

I'm not sure how the ability is random- basically the 'concept' of it is being magically struck and becoming overwhelmed by the sounds of battle, if you've ever been in a sports audience or paintball game you might know what I mean by that, and then this slows your attack. But then the moment all the sound dies off, you become timid, waiting for something to happen, tensed- the movespeed reduction. The result in game terms is the player chooses if they want to stand and fight- if they're slowed they don't actually care about the movespeed if they can go toe to toe with him- thats where the skill synergy comes in, but if they're near creeps they need to come up with a plan to compensate for the reduction of attack speed, which combined with an evaision makes every missed attack mean a bigger swing in the fight. But if they start to run around the creeps, Ronin can pull out his slow and punish them anyways. Damned if you do, damned if you don't sort of thing.

I thought marked foe was kindof cool too. It was the first skill I came up with.

DBD- I don't know why people insist this is reincarnation when it really isn't. Its like a different version of Abbadon's Ult if anything, triggering at next-to-0 hp rather then 400. Thematically I see this as the ronin's spirit vaporizing and flying away, stealing bits of health from those he hits, and materializing elsewhere. If you want synergy then- going toe to toe with Ronin becomes that much more dangerous, since you can't completely kill him without giving him a chance to run away unless you perfectly time a stun, or get a movespeed boost to chase him, thus synergising with his passive. If you do choose to go after Ronin, then you'll likely be moving away from the creeps, or moving towards them, depending on the circumstances. This change could easily make Swirl of Battle much more meaningful if the fight is close between the combatants. You'll also notice that DBD sends Ronin away almost far enough to trigger Marked Foe's teleportation strike, which could quickly synergize with him vanishing and healing a fraction of health, then moving back slightly and coming back with a high damage finisher.

Overcomplex spells? Have you read the tooltips of some of the heroes already in there? I don't think the tooltips will read any worse then what is already out there. The explanations of them mechanically may be long, but I doubt the actual execution will have to be.

[PoopyDesires]

You know what you're right.

I know this is incredibly stupid to say but it's really just a gut feeling. I actually can't see anything really wrong.

I agree that was uncalled for and I was very rude, was just a bit pissed off at life today.

Hope you can forgive me and I'll definitely attempt to give a real review to your next hero.

[Sabre]

Now if only we could reverse your t down :(

I wish it sounded less condescending, but apology accepted wholeheartedly. Lets move on.

(Also, I conveniently have another hero up for review)

[PoopyDesires]

It'll probably make it into top suggestions anyways XD.

Going to just keep looking over these spells until I figure it out.

I don't know, I guess its just because it isn't like traditional DotA heroes like I'm used to. I know that's a good thing but you know how habit is >_>

[Simba]

His ult sucks if it won't active while stunned or silenced or anything. Considering how poor his other skills are and how poorly they synergize, there's no justification for his ult being that bad.

Everything costs too much mana, doesn't do enough damage and doesn't have a nice enough effect. Especially considering this hero would require probably at least a Steam/enh marchers + Sheild breaker + shrunken head before he can even begin to be useful in teamfights.

Maybe if that slow based on enemies nearby also inflicted silence, or if "Hammer" had a useful effect...

All in all, cool concept, especially the blink strike-y thing and the ult, but good concepts don't always make strong heroes.

[Sabre]

If the ult worked even when silenced or stunned, he would be nigh-unkillable. You can't cast blink while stunned or silenced, so why should this be any different? Killing magebane/wretched hag is a pain as it is.

'Everything' costs a lot of mana for a reason, the cooldowns are not significant, and the effects are large when they take effect. The mana costs are the limiting factor in this hero.

I think silencing in addition to slowing would be broken. He doesn't have any hard disables for a reason, he needs item support and team support to provide the rest. He's not a 'do it all' hero, not many heroes are, nevermind agility heroes. His strength is in attacking, and the strength of his attacks, and I think his skillset lets him do that- he has the snare to let him get in hits, and the passive and marked foe to give him the damage.

Saying that an agility hero needs steamboots, sheild breaker, and shrunken head pretty much describes all agility carries. In this case while yes, shieldbreaker definetly would help late game as armour piles up on the enemy, but don't forget most of the damage is done in combination with his own physical attack, and with his ult his midgame should be farm-tastic, allowing for such *extravigant* items as steamboots, shield breaker and shrunken head to be a possibility.

You don't think a passive 25% slow on attack is a useful effect? Ok, thats one opinon. It can always be increased to 3/4/5/6 or even 5/6/7/8

[Vapor]

Maybe scaling down the range of Marked Foe, seems a little bit too far for me. It's the same as the Hag's distance.

[Sabre]

Since marked foe reduces the health regeneration to 0, any HP gain (levelling or spell/item effects included) would trigger marked foe's blink attack, just as if they had walked away. I think any of the 'but what if' scenarios are limited in scope that they would just be funny interactions.

Secondly, I think thats basically the danger you have to look out for, the same danger you take when you use a homecoming stone on a tower under attack, its your own fault for doing it if the enemy hero can draw you into a favourable position.

[Mittsies]

The poll sucks ass, but this hero does not.

[binbo]

I kind of imagined he would be a Strength hero. Starting stat-wise, he's practically a copy of Swiftblade.

Besides, Swiftblade is more of a quick assassin (even though he's dressed like a samurai), while I imagined the Ronin as a heavily armored samurai, ergo a Strength hero.

[Sabre]

If you look closely binbo you might find a reason for him being closely mirrored to swiftblade.

[Vapor]

If you look closely binbo you might find a reason for him being closely mirrored to swiftblade.

Win :D

[Sabre]

Lets keep those T-ups and feedback rolling in.

[Panderous]

Only problem I found was with Marked Foe's teleportation. The enemy could break the skill into a ambush, or tower dive way too easily. Need to find a way to make it conditional I think.

Otherwise, pretty decent. Would add another good melee hero to the field that had a few pretty tricks and wasnt as straight forward :)

LectorJack

[Sabre]

As I've said before time and time again, 1700 is not very far. It is ~x1.5 of the max blink distance Magebane or Wretched hag can travel (1150). If you get caught and warp into a gank or tower, I think that really is the player's fault. You should be able to plan for the next 8 or so seconds of play and not use Marked Foe when such a situation is likely. The same way anyone playing succubus has to plan who they want to use mesmerize on, since if their own team is about to atteck them, not much will get accomplished.

[Namu1]

I really, I really like it. However, his ultimate, how it teleports him away... Bah, it doesn't specify, does it? I guess it's more of a gamble. Maybe make it increase his resurrection time if he dies within ten seconds of teleporting? I don't know, just a suggestion.

[Sabre]

Why should it increase (make longer?) his resurrection time if his ult triggers? Should the same happen to Accursed?

It says 'how' it teleports him away, atleast as much as any other teleportation effect does in the game. (Gusts of wind cover his escape)

[Namu1]

Oh, I see... Oh, just forget what I said, then! Just me ramblin'.

[Hucklecat]

Spell 1 – Switchblade – I find this spell to be completely generic, I do not see any originality to it. This spell in Nail Stance out classes troll’s stun by a lot, but even if this spell was balanced, I am not a fan of overused game mechanics.

Spell 2 – Swirl of Battle – I find this spell to be underpowered and I do not like the concept, maybe the animation in mind might look cool but the overall concept of the spell is nothing special.

Spell 3 – Marked Foe – I really like this idea for a spell, but it’s the only original idea so far. Where is the synergy? Yes you can argue that a stun mechanic and a spell that slows would synergize, but that’s nothing new, of course they are going to work well together, in fact I think having a hero with innate bash and a 35 percent slow is kind of OP. And I am a bit confused, when you say materialized; do you mean that Ronin is going to blink strike to the targeted opponent? Because if so, you better hope this is the killing blow, this spell can really backfire.

Spell 4 – Dishonor Before Death - So in essence this hero cannot be killed with this spell. I just do not see how this spell works with the other spells.

I like the whole materialization of the hero, but I do not think these spells showcase that concept well enough. Better synergized spells that showcases the unique materialization concept you created would make for a lot better hero. It is just my opinion and nothing personal.

[dandylion]

Spell 1 - Seems like nail is hands down the better stance to be in if you ask me. Stun + evasion > stacking slow in my experience.

Spell 2 - Seems fine to me, a little overcomplicated but fine.

Spell 3 - I really like the idea behind this one, but seeing how it could backfire fairly easily (demented shaman bringing you home to get crushed ex.) it seems that it could put you into a lot of hurt for a not-so-op ability.

Spell 4 - Seems way too ridiculous. The random teleportation leaves you at the mercy of RNG.

Overall, I'm pretty on the fence about this one.

[yourstruly]

Hmm. first skill is weak and 2nd skill is on the weak side as well.
3rd skill seems cool though, and ultimate is awesome, hello 60sec cooldown "i cant possibly die btw".

overall, i think hes quite weak as is.

[Sabre]

Spell 1 – Switchblade – I find this spell to be completely generic, I do not see any originality to it. This spell in Nail Stance out classes troll’s stun by a lot, but even if this spell was balanced, I am not a fan of overused game mechanics.

Troll's 'Stance' gave him bonus damage, stunned for 1 second, could permastun, and was attached to Troll, an attack speed beast. 'Overused game mechanics' an overused game mechanic is a plain attack speed or damage increase, this is nothing of the sort. Toggling between having a stacking melee attack slow and a ministun and directional evasion is generic? Wildsoul is the only hero I can think of who even has a toggle 'stance' and thats wildly different from this.



Spell 2 – Swirl of Battle – I find this spell to be underpowered and I do not like the concept, maybe the animation in mind might look cool but the overall concept of the spell is nothing special.

While you're certainly entitled to your opinion on the concept, don't judge it totally based on the numbers of the spell. If you feel its underpowered I'm sure actual testing could find appropriate numbers for the respective slows.



Spell 3 – Marked Foe – I really like this idea for a spell, but it’s the only original idea so far. Where is the synergy? Yes you can argue that a stun mechanic and a spell that slows would synergize, but that’s nothing new, of course they are going to work well together, in fact I think having a hero with innate bash and a 35 percent slow is kind of OP. And I am a bit confused, when you say materialized; do you mean that Ronin is going to blink strike to the targeted opponent? Because if so, you better hope this is the killing blow, this spell can really backfire.

You just said that the '35% slow' was underpowered. He does not have an innate bash per say, it more resembles a ministun. Why does this have to be the killing blow? Is he somehow disabled after this? Does Ronin have no control over the distance between himself and another hero? It certainly does a significant amount of damage, but thats the point. The synergy is, as stated in the posts above (if you had read them) the idea of forcing your opponent into a bad situation without actually excercising control over them. You aren't forcing them to try to run away from you when you gank them by the creep wave, but they know its not in their best interest to try and fight Ronin 1v1 while a large group of creeps are nearby. Then when they try to run, they find themselves slowed, and thus while they try and find the optimal position to fight Ronin on, he gladly spends his time wailing away on them with his swords, in whichever stance he prefers (likely Hammer if he is chasing). His first and third skills provide the battle edge over others, his second and third skills provide the positioning.

And yes I do mean blink striking basically, but I use materialize to imply that he is not using some sort of high tech device he borrowed from the electrician to do it.



Spell 4 – Dishonor Before Death - So in essence this hero cannot be killed with this spell. I just do not see how this spell works with the other spells.

According to the statement that 'this hero cannot be killed while he has this spell' all heroes are pegged to the ground and cannot move, and therefore cannot chase or cast spells at range. Also, fights only occur once every 60 seconds or more, and involve no disables, silences or stuns.

If you look at the range of the teleportation, you might notice that in fact DBD teleports Ronin almost to the edge of the max range for Marked Foe, allowing him to get back in the fight if he so chose with a crushing blow, or this simply allows him to escape after a harsh battle.

Conclusion- its nothing personal, but try going back and reading again, and thinking your conclusions through a little more.

[Sabre]

Spell 1 - Seems like nail is hands down the better stance to be in if you ask me. Stun + evasion > stacking slow in my experience.

Spell 2 - Seems fine to me, a little overcomplicated but fine.

Spell 3 - I really like the idea behind this one, but seeing how it could backfire fairly easily (demented shaman bringing you home to get crushed ex.) it seems that it could put you into a lot of hurt for a not-so-op ability.

Spell 4 - Seems way too ridiculous. The random teleportation leaves you at the mercy of RNG.

Overall, I'm pretty on the fence about this one.

Switchblade- An evasion and ministun are not so useful when you are chasing, no. The reason for the stacking is to prevent 1 hit instantly bringing a hero's movespeed down to slow levels, since that would dwarf many other spells and abilities.

Swirl of Battle- I just got told this was too simple and underpowered. I wish people would make up their mind. (My gut tells me that if people say its underpowered and overpowered its more or less fine as it is)

Marked Foe- As I have said, TIME AND TIME AGAIN, in this thread. The duration is 8 seconds. If the player cannot forsee ~ 8 seconds into the future in terms of what could go wrong and what kind of traps they can get into, I think its their fault, not the heroes. The same can be said for people who portal key into groups and get owned before they get off their spell combo. The problem is not the portal key or the hero. 1D10T error. Secondly, the range is only 1700, which is 2.5x the range of a tower, or 1.5x the range of a normal blink. The distance is not so far that you will find yourself in the enemy pool from the river.

DBD- Which is a part of the imperfect nature of this escape method. If you start fighting in corners and get trapped, its your fault. Though you would be surprised what locations you might be able to get in in the forest, and still be able to get out.


Hmm. first skill is weak and 2nd skill is on the weak side as well.
3rd skill seems cool though, and ultimate is awesome, hello 60sec cooldown "i cant possibly die btw".

overall, i think hes quite weak as is.

First skill is weak individually to balance for the flexibility of the skill. Obviously specific numbers can change, though with the vague nature of all these replies, the task of balancing them becomes more then mildly onerous. This applies to Swirl as well.

You can die while DBD is up. You can run out of mana, which is likely given the tight mana pool of this hero, you can be stunned, silenced, or otherwise disabled. It is not a universal get out of jail free card. Its like I speicifically wrote 'weaknesses' into this skill to specifically point out how to defeat it without it activating.

This thread once again proves literacy is not a prerequisite to forum use. /frustrated.

I rebuffed Swirl and Hammer to the numbers I thought they should be at, but previous cries of overpoweredness made me hesitate.

[Flow_Rush]

An interesting and complex hero we got here!

Switchblade:

I don't understand the hate towards switch skills, there is nothing wrong with them, including this one. Hammer and Nail can both work in the right situation and wrapping their effects up in a single skill is nice to see. Well done, I am not sure about losing the attack speed during Hammer though, is that really necessary?

Swirl of Battle:

A very good spell with more possibilities. Good in 1v1 AND in 5v5, that is what I like to see. Nothing wrong here.

Marked Foe:

Excellent, applauds. People could have so much fun whenever using this, I could see it already happening in my mind.

Dishonour before Death:

A very random spell if you ask me, rather than giving it a random location, why not let the passive calculate the position of the most enemy heroes and creeps around the radius and let Ronin reappear there? Other than that issue I am content with this.

In overall, there is not a single skill which I dislike. You have earned a thumbs up, good job!

[Sabre]

An interesting and complex hero we got here!

Switchblade:

I don't understand the hate towards switch skills, there is nothing wrong with them, including this one. Hammer and Nail can both work in the right situation and wrapping their effects up in a single skill is nice to see. Well done, I am not sure about losing the attack speed during Hammer though, is that really necessary?

Me neither. I'll consider lowering it if this makes it to popular suggestions, but in the previous thread there were wide claims about how overpowered this would be, so I am hesitant to buff him more.



Dishonour before Death:

A very random spell if you ask me, rather than giving it a random location, why not let the passive calculate the position of the most enemy heroes and creeps around the radius and let Ronin reappear there? Other than that issue I am content with this.


I think you misunderstand the purpose of this- it is to allow him to escape most of the time, not reappear near enemy heroes. I did wonder about the viability of a completely random blink, but as my experiments in forest adventures (selling my items when a game is over and exploring with runes of the blight) have proved there are many many areas to hide in that a player can then extracate themselves from.

[Sabre]

*bumpity*

[Sabre]

*bumpity*

[Sabre]

*bumpity*

More votes come in, and yet no feedback :(

[MagicCake]

I liked the idea of the hero but i don't really like some of the abilities..

Giving this hero reincarnation seems rather IMBA and Hammer of Hammer and Nails seems rather useless compared to Nail.

[Sabre]

For the millionth time he does not have reincarnation, more like an automatic blink and minor heal.

[mynameisthis]

This didn't blow me away, sry... I love that ppl take the time to make heroes, but I don't feel this one is particularly inspired? Personally, I think we have enough basic combat chars, and could now use heroes that have all their skills lightly synergize in unique and interesting ways?

A lot of the entries in Popular Suggestions are like this.

[Sabre]

I'm sorry you evidently are reviewing someone elses hero, since there is plenty of synergy here. On the complaints that he's a 'basic combat char' I would ask -have you even played HoN?

[SunshinePony]

http://www.guildwars.com/images/professions/skillicons/assassin/exhaustingassault.jpg Swirl of Battle
With a point of his sword the ronin magnifies the cacophony of battle in the ears of one opponent, dazing them and hampering their senses.

Effect: Target enemy hero takes 25/75/125/175 magical damage and has their attack speed slowed by 7%/8%/9%/10% for every enemy unit within 500 aoe. If at any time no enemy units are within 500 of the enemy hero, the enemy hero is slowed by 20%/30%/40%/50%.

Type: Single Target Magic Spell (Debuff)
Range: 300
Duration: 5/6/7/8 seconds
Mana Cost: 135/125/105/95
Cooldown: 20 seconds

IDK about this skill. I would remove the "if solo" part and just make it for any unit within the 500 AoE the enemy is slowed. So allies and enemies will add to the slows percentage. It makes more sense with the spell description since everyone makes noise and this would allow for your allies being close to the enemy to also help slow him. I also want the "if solo" part removed because a 50% slow for 8 seconds 1v1 is ridiculous.


http://www.guildwars.com/images/professions/skillicons/assassin/unsuspectingstrike.jpg Marked Foe
The Ronin is able to channel his vengance to attune his blades to a single enemy, greatly increasing their potential against the marked foe.

Effect: Target enemy hero's health regeneration rate is reduced by 100% and the enemy hero takes an additional 25/35/45/55 physical damage whenever they are damaged physically by The Ronin's attacks.

If the marked foe moves more than 900/1100/1300/1500 away from The Ronin, or gains hit points, The Ronin materializes instantly behind them and attacks, dealing 125/175/225/275 additional damage. After the attack is complete, marked foe automatically ends.

Type: Single Target Magic Spell (Debuff)
Range: 650
Duration: 6/7/8/9 seconds
Mana Cost: 140
Cooldown: 25 seconds


The first part of this ability is fine as is and is a pretty crazy strong debuff at that considering it completely negates a heart or any other STR item. But the second part is probably the most OP thing I've ever seen. You basically took a debuff and turned it into a debuff and a instant homing ridiculous range blink and a high damage nuke.

Most skills that characters have only do one of these. To give all three boggles my mind.

http://www.guildwars.com/images/professions/skillicons/assassin/return.jpg Dishonour Before Death(ult)
Refusing to die on the battlefield in failure once more, The Ronin sends his spirit quickly rushing away to live to fight again, jarring those nearby with raging winds.

Effect: If an attack or effect would kill The Ronin, that effect is negated and The Ronin materializes 900/1200/1500 in a random direction. All debuffs are removed from The Ronin.

Enemies within 400/600/800 of The Ronin when this ability activates take 125/200/275 physical damage.

The Ronin's hp is changed to 50/75/100 + 15/25/35 x the number of enemies hit by this ability.

Type: Passive
Mana Cost: 150/250/350
Cooldown: 160/110/60 seconds

No. omg omg omg no. This only gives a 59 second window to kill this character. Otherwise he will blink is some random direction and do a damage AoE before he leaves. Helllllll no. Think about it. If your in a 1v1 battle with another melee hero at level 6 and its an even fight. If you are both about to last hit each other you win no matter what. Becuase you will not take the damage and you will probably kill him with the pre-blink nuke.

So far the only spell that I have no problem with is the first one.

In general you seem to like having more than one part to your spells. And most of the time the first part to your spells is fine. So adding a second part makes them ridiculous. This character overall is crazy. To many crazy distance blinks that auto cast, to much nuke, and to many things that will make the enemy team go OMG WTF BBQ rage quit.

[Sabre]

Bump. (I'm on vacation, I'll properly reply to Sunshine and any others when I get back.)

[Sabre]

IDK about this skill. I would remove the "if solo" part and just make it for any unit within the 500 AoE the enemy is slowed. So allies and enemies will add to the slows percentage. It makes more sense with the spell description since everyone makes noise and this would allow for your allies being close to the enemy to also help slow him. I also want the "if solo" part removed because a 50% slow for 8 seconds 1v1 is ridiculous.

No, that would make the slow too much, it is already very large as it is. Don't think about the exact 'reality' of the ability. I don't think realism has any place in HoN. I don't care if you 'want' the 'if solo' part removed. Try to respect that this isn't your hero, and you aren't S2, you're giving feedback not demands. If you think 50% slow for 8 seconds is overpowered, compare it to other heroes- off the top of my head slither, who is ranged, has an AoE 50% slow and DoT that lasts for much longer. The by comparison skill is fairly balanced, especially since even 1 enemy hero coming near means the movement slow goes away.




The first part of this ability is fine as is and is a pretty crazy strong debuff at that considering it completely negates a heart or any other STR item. But the second part is probably the most OP thing I've ever seen. You basically took a debuff and turned it into a debuff and a instant homing ridiculous range blink and a high damage nuke.

Most skills that characters have only do one of these. To give all three boggles my mind.



Your mind must be easily boggled then. This skill is just a conditional blink strike combined with a damage buff against a single hero. I can only imagine how OP you must think nighthound is, since he gets a 5 second spammable blink strike + his own damage.. You lose a little credibility here if you think that no HP regen for 8 seconds 'totally negates str items'. Not only that, but any hero with a Heart would automatically trigger the 'if healed' part of Marked Foe due to its 1% healed buff (unless that functions just like increased HP regen, I could be wrong), making the damage buff completely go away after the single attack.



No. omg omg omg no. This only gives a 59 second window to kill this character. Otherwise he will blink is some random direction and do a damage AoE before he leaves. Helllllll no. Think about it. If your in a 1v1 battle with another melee hero at level 6 and its an even fight. If you are both about to last hit each other you win no matter what. Becuase you will not take the damage and you will probably kill him with the pre-blink nuke.


Your inability to read ANY of the previous posts or the thread itself is impressive. I explicitly stated that this will not trigger if the hero is disabled. So you have to use your disables at the end of trying to kill this guy, not all at the beginning. Boo hoo. Not only that, but the actual damage done by DBD is PITIFUL compared to almost any actual nuke I can think of. By level 16 I don't think anyone cares about the 275 damage done once every 60 seconds at most. Not only that, but note that the player has no control over where he ends up, making this an imperfect escape method. Very rarely do you actually have a 1v1 even fight in HoN with two people about to get the last hit on eachother, particularly early game, so I don't see the reason for this situational comparison. If you replaced Ronin with hammerstorm you could just as easily say he was overpowered because he could use his stun to get the last few hits in while they can't move. AND IT DOES DAMAGE OMG.

So far the only spell that I have no problem with is the first one.

In general you seem to like having more than one part to your spells. And most of the time the first part to your spells is fine. So adding a second part makes them ridiculous. This character overall is crazy. To many crazy distance blinks that auto cast, to much nuke, and to many things that will make the enemy team go OMG WTF BBQ rage quit.


I don't mean to get personal but I think you might want to play some more HoN, particularly at higher levels. Especially after looking at some of your own suggestions I think there is a bit of a disconnect between your interpretation of balance and many of the existing heroes. Don't get so scared of things on paper, things typically never work out in ideal situations.

[Daaadom]

Nice idea, but needs a lot of fine tuning,

you should think about this bash ability !!!

But you got my vote ... 8)

[Sabre]

What do you mean by that?

[Daaadom]

Well ... he got a very good skill set AND will be a perma basher late game !!!

He looks like very versatile version of troll with very strong other skills ..

Not the problem ... i like the theme .... keep on improving ... !!!

AND ... take a look/vote for my Centaur Remake ... 8)

[Sabre]

I don't see how you see Troll in there at all? He has no attack speed boost, and he can't perma bash at all, not only due to the cooldown, but due to the fact its a half-bash.

[Sabre]

60 down, 40 to go!

[Sabre]

Keep em coming!

[Sabre]

Changed Dishonour Before Death slightly. Now the teleportation is not random, but the damage is reduced.

[Sabre]

Bump

[docterj208]

ult is OP. No one should blink towards their fountain on death. Makes chasing incredibly difficult.


Also, mark is kinda OP

Edit:

Mark is actually fine. and added why ult is OP.

[Sabre]

Erm. Oops.

[SayWhat]

If you read carefully, you'll find they don't blink to their fountain on death. They blink IN THE DIRECTION OF up to the listed range.

If you read carefully, you would recognize that he didn't say they blink to their fountain, he said twords their fountain.

[Sabre]

My mistake.

In that case, I wonder what game he's been playing, since no-one is complaining magebane and wretched hag are overpowered from their ability to blink in any direction.

[SayWhat]

To be fair, his ult was one of the main things i disliked about them. Akasha and Antimage's blinks aren't auto cast on near death and they don't regain health. Granted, they also aren't ult's, but i still think this ability is overpowered. The only other problem i had with the hero is his Hammer ability. I know you have addressed this before, but it seems like a waste of time past the first 15 minutes of game play. I just have a hard time seeing people using this ability over evasion and stun when they already have another slow and a situational blinkstrike.

[Sabre]

Hm. I see what you mean. Perhaps I might just remove the bash then.

I think DBD is balanced simply because its not like a blink per say. Magebane/Am and QoP/Hag can use their blinks at any time. If you stun them when you see them, the moment the stun breaks they can blink away. Ronin isn't like that. He has no escape method other then DBD, and any opponent who encouters him and knows that can use it to their advantage by holding their disable to the end. If he is killed while disabled or silenced, then he can't dissapear. And even if he does, with the new consistent direction, you know where he went and can pre-empt the teleport (a common tactic for ganking blinkers) or atleast give chase.

[SayWhat]

Here is the thing, i don't think that nerfing Nail is the correct route to go to get people to think about using hammer. It seems that the skill Switchblade could easily be turned into something that makes each of them ideal for an offensive and defensive situation. To me, throwing a stacking dot on Hammer and/or a small frontal cleave would brighten the skill up a lot more.

[Sabre]

I don't think thats the way to go. I think the skills are strong enough as is- its a powerful slow Hammer can stack onto someone given a couple of swings, and combined with a skill that gives full out evaision can't balance easily if each one is on the same level as a normal skill. The cleave attack is an interesting idea though.

[docterj208]

this guys ult vs magebane/hag

1) magebane/hag needs 4 levels to be effective, not 1
2) magebane/hag by character design use this skill as an initiator and escape. Therefore, a player won't necessarily be able to escape by skill alone
3) They aren't autocast like DBD
4) magebane/hag won't always get full range of their blink because someone has to choose the spot.
5) magebane/hag don't blink as far away as DBD
6) DBD should just do something else.....

[Sabre]

this guys ult vs magebane/hag

1) magebane/hag needs 4 levels to be effective, not 1
2) magebane/hag by character design use this skill as an initiator and escape. Therefore, a player won't necessarily be able to escape by skill alone
3) They aren't autocast like DBD
4) magebane/hag won't always get full range of their blink because someone has to choose the spot.
5) magebane/hag don't blink as far away as DBD
6) DBD should just do something else.....

1) Magebane's isn't an ult. At level 1 DBD only teleports 900 away, which is barely longer then the attack range of a tower.
2) Which is why its better for them? If you blink in and die with mag before your blink cools down, its your own damn fault
3) Yeah, they get to choose when they cast them, which is even better then having it force trigger when you're about to die and at no other time.
4) Instead they get to place themselves exactly where they want, which anyone can tell you is more preferable.
5) They do until he gets max level of his ult. Also, their blink isn't an ULT
6) Go away

[docterj208]

1) Magebane's isn't an ult. At level 1 DBD only teleports 900 away, which is barely longer then the attack range of a tower.
2) Which is why its better for them? If you blink in and die with mag before your blink cools down, its your own damn fault
3) Yeah, they get to choose when they cast them, which is even better then having it force trigger when you're about to die and at no other time.
4) Instead they get to place themselves exactly where they want, which anyone can tell you is more preferable.
5) They do until he gets max level of his ult. Also, their blink isn't an ULT
6) Go away

1) My point was their skills require more of a commitment. Yes, yours is an ult, but that doesn't mean anything about a blink mechanic in general.
2) My point was that it requires the user to pay attention. This guy's ult does not.
3&4) my point was that it requires an extra step, a user has to click a spot. your ult just puts you there which means no down time (even if it is small) and no thinking.
5) I think I was just saying that your guys ult will be more annoying to deal with than either of the other two skills
6) sorry for saying I wanted something else... but why not just give him a blink at level 6 instead of a triggered blink? Might as well be the same thing.


Also, I forgot to mention that magebane and Hag's blink doesn't remove debuffs. Removing debuffs pretty much stops death by dots (Slither, voodoo, legionaire, etc.).

[Sabre]

1) It does mean it can be proportionately more powerful, since its Ronin's big spell
2) The hero himself requires the user to pay attention since his ONLY escape mechanism activates when he's near death. No second chances, nothing, just that one time shot where you hope they don't have a disable waiting for it.
3&4) Lack of control and automation 9/10 times means suboptimal use. Most of the time Abbadon didn't get a very good ult use in DotA, which is why they changed it to be activated so that he had some control over it. This isn't even with activatability.
I 100% feel that in actual gameplay, it will come out that this skill should be buffed.
5) I'm pretty sure that even at level 16 this hero will be 300% easier to kill then magebane or even Chronos. You need 1 disable to pin him down for the kill, magebane needs 3-4.

And yes, this removes Debuffs, because otherwise it would be TERRIBLE since they would die to dots right after.

[Sabre]

Bump

[Brad1]

I'm not really big on the ulti...

[Sabre]

Any chance of a more helpful comment?

[upm]

I really like this hero, it's about time that swiftblade gets a nemesis, Swiftblade needs someone good to counter him! :D

[CandIeJack]

When does his health go back to normal after his ult?

[Sabre]

It doesn't get set to a max hp number, just his current health. So regardless of his actual health maximum or current total, it would become X/hp total, where X is the number DBD set it to.

[Akiry]

I gotta ask..

Take for instance Arachna -> Your first counter for that hero is a simple Homecoming Stone, in a step to get back to the tower/base/whatever.

Now, considering the skill: "Marked Foe"
Basically, when he hits you with that spell, you just port back to your fountain, thus getting 1700 range away from him, and thus - most likely - killing him. Works as intended?

[Sabre]

I think it would have to be coded like Kraken's ult where the effect breaks if they use a teleportation skill like Homecoming stones, Post-haste, or nymphora's ult.

Added that little caveat.

[Bates3]

Ulti is alot more creative than just a reincarnation :). T-up

[Sabre]

10 More. Cmon, tell your friends!

[KingEmblem]

Meh, I can't vote positive on this in its current form. I do like the concept and half the skills, so I won't vote negative, either.

The evasion is useless because it'll just conflict with Wingbow, and Wingbow evasion is highly superior. Since it's the small sword, he should have a stacking attack speed bonus against his opponent for each hit.

The ultimate seems too survival oriented, kind of lackluster for an agility carry. Everybody on this forum seems really hesitant to make an actually powerful, battle deciding ultimate. Most heroes have one, and if not, their other skills are amazing.

[Sabre]

That was painful to read.

So your complaint is that half of one of his skills is inferior to a 5000 gold item? If your complaining about the exact numbers, and feel at level 4 it should be atleast 30%, then say so. I would then point you to the fact that each of the respective parts of Switchblade are purposefully lower then separate skills on their own would be because of the flexibility offered by being able to switch between both.

If you just t-downed a hero due to numbers alone, I would kindly ask you to leave this section of the forums and never come back again.

No, he shouldn't have a stacking attack speed bonus. You suggest/think he should. Try to remember whose hero concept this is.

His ult seems too survival oriented? I assume then that Andromeda's passive is too damage oriented then, and should be reworked as well? And I mean, her swap is too swap oriented, so we need to fix that too and generalize it more.

All heroes in one way or another have 'battle deciding ults'. Their other 3 skills can be 'battle deciding' as well. Its called synergy. Speaking of, I notice how you totally ignore the painfully obvious synergy with marked foe and his ult, which turns his 'survival oriented' ult into a huge damage spike. And if you somehow read over the other 3 skills he had and think that those skills too don't somehow help to 'decide the battle' then I really don't know what to say.

You seem to just want magmus and tempest clones apparently. If you want to see a big flashy ult take a look at my Peacemaker hero, but I would rather you didn't lest you find his ult too 'battle deciding oriented'

[docterj208]

I think maybe nerub's back stab as an ult would be a better fit for this character. Besides, if this guy is going to be swiftblade's arch enemy he should have an ult to rival swiftblade's, not something that lets him run away from it.

[Sabre]

Feel free to go make your own hero. Giving him nerub's backstab is not going to happen because:

Nerub exists already and people would hemorrhage if someone tried to prevent his full incarnation being ported.

It doesn't fit with his theme half as well as dishonourable retreat, and doesn't really synergize all that well, since its basically just 'more damage'.

[docterj208]

ok, then just take this part of the suggestion:

"f this guy is going to be swiftblade's arch enemy, he should have an ult to rival swiftblade's"

[ElementUser]

You spelt evasion wrong in your skill description of Nail (it's spelt as "evaison" currently)

[Sabre]

Fixed

[KingEmblem]

That was painful to read.

So your complaint is that half of one of his skills is inferior to a 5000 gold item? If your complaining about the exact numbers, and feel at level 4 it should be atleast 30%, then say so. I would then point you to the fact that each of the respective parts of Switchblade are purposefully lower then separate skills on their own would be because of the flexibility offered by being able to switch between both.

If you just t-downed a hero due to numbers alone, I would kindly ask you to leave this section of the forums and never come back again.

No, he shouldn't have a stacking attack speed bonus. You suggest/think he should. Try to remember whose hero concept this is.

His ult seems too survival oriented? I assume then that Andromeda's passive is too damage oriented then, and should be reworked as well? And I mean, her swap is too swap oriented, so we need to fix that too and generalize it more.

All heroes in one way or another have 'battle deciding ults'. Their other 3 skills can be 'battle deciding' as well. Its called synergy. Speaking of, I notice how you totally ignore the painfully obvious synergy with marked foe and his ult, which turns his 'survival oriented' ult into a huge damage spike. And if you somehow read over the other 3 skills he had and think that those skills too don't somehow help to 'decide the battle' then I really don't know what to say.

You seem to just want magmus and tempest clones apparently. If you want to see a big flashy ult take a look at my Peacemaker hero, but I would rather you didn't lest you find his ult too 'battle deciding oriented'
...why are you so offended? I didn't vote. Reread that, please. I never once criticized the numbers; I simply disliked the design of certain skills.

It's a good concept overall, but it just seems underwhelming. Yes, the skill is inferior to Wingbow, which is a problem because it removes his core item, considering he is an agility carry. This is also the reason Scout is a poor carry: getting a Wingbow on him is redundant, because you're canceling his passive for a slight increase. It makes Wingbow a poor choice, or rather just brings people to believe that the hero itself is poorly designed. Or perhaps people would just always leave it on the slowing passive, negating the unique "stance" passive's charm.

Actually, just switching him to a strength hero would solve this problem, as evasion would actually be a somewhat fresh concept on a strength hero. Being strength would also make him more of an opposite of Swiftblade. And there's too few strength carries. Please don't get offended by my suggestion; I do not have the power to edit it or make the choice for you, I'm merely trying to help your suggestion. When you tell someone they should do something, it's not a command.

By the way, Andromeda is a support hero, and thus her ultimate is either used to support or gank. If they gave her a damage oriented ultimate, she would become a DPS oriented hero. Swiftblade's ultimate is direct damage, Madman's ultimate directly increases DPS, Pestilence's ultimate increase damage output, etc.

[Sabre]

...why are you so offended? I didn't vote. Reread that, please. I never once criticized the numbers; I simply disliked the design of certain skills. Watch your phrasing and tone. You would be surprised what people infer if you poorly phrase what you mean to say, especially without the use of body language.


It's a good concept overall, but it just seems underwhelming. Yes, the skill is inferior to Wingbow, which is a problem because it removes his core item, considering he is an agility carry. This is also the reason Scout is a poor carry: getting a Wingbow on him is redundant, because you're canceling his passive for a slight increase. It makes Wingbow a poor choice, or rather just brings people to believe that the hero itself is poorly designed. Or perhaps people would just always leave it on the slowing passive, negating the unique "stance" passive's charm.
Wingbow is almost never a 'core' item on any hero, its usually the #1 luxury item, but not 'core' especially on heroes who already have their own source of damage and evaision. Just because this is an agility carry does not mean wingbow HAS to work for him and MUST be stapled on to him. That all being said, in light of the fact they introduced talisman of evaision, I'll be buffing Nail to 30%



Actually, just switching him to a strength hero would solve this problem, as evasion would actually be a somewhat fresh concept on a strength hero. Being strength would also make him more of an opposite of Swiftblade. And there's too few strength carries.

Eh, I guess, but thats a pretty big overhaul to make after 80+ people have voted already.


By the way, Andromeda is a support hero, and thus her ultimate is either used to support or gank. If they gave her a damage oriented ultimate, she would become a DPS oriented hero. Swiftblade's ultimate is direct damage, Madman's ultimate directly increases DPS, Pestilence's ultimate increase damage output, etc. Andro is a semi-carry, like valk.

[Sabre]

Bump

[thugwaffle]

very similar concept to an idea i had, but was a nemesis to nighthoung and was a semi-na port. had similar storyline.

:(

sounds pretty good though.

[Zoyzo]

Nice Idea :)

[Sabre]

Its so close I can taste it!

[Sadomeso]

Its so close I can taste it!

haha, i hope you'll get this through, this hero sounds really interesting!

think the way it is, it might be pretty balanced yet.
just bring it on and we'll test this ingame :D

[Sabre]

100! Woo!

[Scione]

the ulti is WAY op...especially with a 60 second cd at level 16..... yeah even the ulti time on valk is WAY higher and she has an escape mechanic ulti.

maybe rework it with a higher cooldown and scrap the damage/lifegain. i mean if i wapred back toward my fountain and started running you can make it there...and as an enemy hero id be opted to try and chase you.

to make sure you arent screwed over by nuetral creeps maybe a 2-3 second immune time to safely move out or away from harm. then run like a ***** away.

[Sabre]

Valk has a global escape and initiation skill, comparisons to this don't really hold up to a self only skill like this.

There is 0 lifegain in this ult. It instead sets his Hp to a given value. If you have 900 hp and get hit by Pyro's ult, your hp is still going to be 100-300 at best.

I can see the neutral creep screw being plausible, but I don't think adding 2-3 seconds of invulnerability is warranted, as smart teams would preempt this skill and ambush him when he teleported.

[Kantorek]

I do like most of what you have proposed for Ronin.... except for the ult. While you made very valid points when saying that you could disable him at low life for the kill, I still think that its still a bit too much to go through just to get one kill. Maybe make it so it doesn't remove the debuffs on him in exchange for moving him closer to the fountain?

Also i'm a bit confused on his third skill. A while back on this thread you said items like the heart would instantly cancel it since they act as healing. What would stop any + health Regen per second item from canceling it?

[Sabre]

People save disables to counter act powerful ults all the time, this is no different.

I think, though I don't know for sure, (keep forgetting to check( that Heart is a buff that acts outside normal health regeneration such as items and natural strength. If that was the case, then Marked Foe would automatically strike. If it wasn't, then yes it would negate the regen from that as well.

[Sabre]

Bump

[Maxter1]

The Ulti is even better than Accursed's.

Some tweaking, nice concept.

[Nonirik]

Marked Foe
The Ronin is able to channel his vengance to attune his blades to a single enemy, greatly increasing their potential against the marked foe.

Effect: Target enemy hero's health regeneration rate is reduced by 100% and the enemy hero takes an additional 15/25/35/45 physical damage whenever they are damaged physically by The Ronin's attacks.

If the marked foe moves more than 900/1100/1300/1500 away from The Ronin, or gains hit points, The Ronin materializes instantly behind them and attacks, dealing 125/175/225/275 additional damage. After the attack is complete, marked foe automatically ends.

Type: Single Target Magic Spell (Debuff)
Range: 650
Duration: 6/7/8/9 seconds
Mana Cost: 140
Cooldown: 25 seconds

It's not soo good...
The enemy can run and you teleport, but you are on niddle of 5 enemies now.... -.-" bad choice...


But this hero is awesome i really like =)...

You get a t-up from me...
Review my hero too =)..

[Sabre]

This proves I need to add more to the notes.

Non- this skill only lasts 8 seconds and when used optimally deals a ton of damage. The fact that it has somewhat situational use that could screw you over balances it out. If you use this and end up getting drawn into a gank of 5 enemies, its your own damn fault.

[Sabre]

Bump. I'll add more notes once this gets pop'd I guess.

[Sabre]

Bump

[LiQuiD]

this guy looks badass

[Sabre]

Oh yeah. Totally badass.

Yay popular!

[Sabre]

Feedback! I crave feedback!!

[Zethos]

I said no just because there were a few things that I was displeased with I guess. Though the general idea was interesting/likable.

Switchblade: Hammer -> I think it should reduce AS (attack speed), instead of movement speed. By putting more power in your swing you don't walk/move slower, you generally attack slower as the hits are more powerful plus the sword is longer which generally lowers attack speed in itself.

Nail -> Since hammer increases your power shouldn't nail decrease it, especially since you're using your wakazashi.

Swirl of Battle: I honestly like this skill, but I guess my only concern was mana cost moving downwards, when compared to tainted soul, drench and some other slows.

Marked Foe: No real problem here besides on it being conditional, just like SoB.

Dishonor Before Death: I definitely like the name of this and what it does (fits a Ronin nicely). But in so many words the CD and ability is somewhat bothersome. I think it has more to do with the fact you have to use a stun to finish him off, as the only way when this isn't on CD (minor). Also how would this deal with Legionaire's ult?

I like the possible synergy between DbD and MF as, you can cast MF on a weak opponent be teleported in, finish the job and then be teleported out as a result of tower hits.

The only displeasures is the first and second skill. The last two are honestly my favorite as a result of the synergy (also a hero that has a stipulated blink).

[Sabre]

Switch Blade- Buh? You're reducing the movement speed of those you hit, not yourself.

Swirl- I think comparisons to Tainted Soul are flawed, since the hero is terrible and needs to be reworked. Drench deals much much more damage then Swirl, and ALWAYS slows rather then having a conditional effect.

DbD- I think as written Legionnaire's Ult would be prevented, though if you were subject to Taunt at the time you would die since DbD would be unable to trigger due to the perplexing effect.

[Sabre]

More feedback!

[Xigbar1]

Here's your feedback! ;)
First skill: nothing to say, good work!
Second skill: you should put a cap to the -atk speed% you can give to the enemy...like 60-70%; a potential 8 second disarm is awfully strong
Third skill: This skill seems fun, but it would be better if like "if the enemy gets more than 1500 units away, by clicking the skill again you'll teleport to him, dealing blablabla" so you can choose if you want to teleport or not. To know when an enemy is 1500 units away, a visual effect could be triggered when the limit is reach.
Ultimate: it's not op, with good teamwork is way weaker than Accursed ulti so it's ok :)

[Sabre]

I like this guy, he seems to be literate.

[WooDyVooDoo]

he is rly strong and i liked it very much but
i think it woul be better to change 4 skill :) somehow :)

[Banished]

I love all the skills except the ultimate. Instead of being at the mercy of RNG, why not do something with movement speed? That way, you can escape if you want, or you can keep going for the kill despite probably dying. It kind of further supplements this type of hero that has pretty much a dual playstyle.

[djoske]

Very nice idea rly,just would suggest ult cooldown a bit longer...

Cheers!

[BillyMancer]

Like It. Just thought that maybe when your tracking thing is active, instead of more damage, or atleast less damage, let ronin attack with both blades on him..?

[iDrizzt]

I would like to see his Hammer ability do a stun, then a recovering slow, or just a full out stun.

[ZaF1]

very good !!!! i think im gonna love this hero

[Torguish]

Wow, impressed by this hero :D I like the ulti a lot. So does this go also for something like Legions ulti?
Altho, thumbs up on this one, i'll get back to you on this one if i've decided how to help you on the skills but i just can't see anything overpowered/underpowered. Awesome hero, awesome skills. Tactic and seems to be a lot of fun to play. I will support this hero as much as i can :)

Altho one question on the second skill, if theres no enemies around will it still be attack speed that is slowed? And also, will there be a cap for that skill? So i wouldnt go for like 200% atk speed reducment which would be like 1 hit/minute :D

The consept is awesome and this hero is playable in a way of its own already. Nice Job! Support this one guys!

Btw, i answered to your suggestions so when you can, check them out :) I will also check out your other heroes and give them my reasonable opinion

[archkyle]

i have no real problesm with the concept and numbers can change. however marked foe can be death for the ronin.

even tho marked foe is ended by tp, what if the ronin uses this spell but needs to run away sudenly and is popped back into the arms of a gank? thats my only real concern unless i missread.

t-up for concept

[Sabre]

Marked Foe has the range of a normal blink. If you can't plan that far ahead its your own damn fault.

[mheyman]

the design is basic and brings nothing new or exciting to the table

this hero may not be bad but it's also not very good. DOTA suffers from an influx of heroes that are good but not very interesting to play. This would not be interesting to play. Try actually thinking outside the box.

[Sabre]

the design is basic and brings nothing new or exciting to the table

this hero may not be bad but it's also not very good. DOTA suffers from an influx of heroes that are good but not very interesting to play. This would not be interesting to play. Try actually thinking outside the box.

That was hilarious. Thanks for brightening my day. Now go uninstall your web browser and never come back here again.

[Sabre]

^ I'm such a happy person.

[Dominare]

This might be a pretty major rework, but... okay, I assume some of you have played Street Fighter? There's a character in that game called Gen, and rather uniquely in that series, he also uses stances that change his other attacks. I think there's an opportunity here to have his current stance affect the secondary effects of his other skills when you use them. That'd make him even more interesting to play compared to Swiftblade and the other right-clickers :)

[sQuibba]

super ninja awaaaay

[D0ri]

What i dont get is why the range that people have to run away for Marked Foe to activate scales up as you level the skill. It should actually scale down, so that the blinkstrike gets more reliable.

Or am I missing something?

[imposteroak]

talk about major assassin from guildwars. i like it.

[Sabre]

What i dont get is why the range that people have to run away for Marked Foe to activate scales up as you level the skill. It should actually scale down, so that the blinkstrike gets more reliable.

Or am I missing something?

The idea is that it gives you more flexibility and chasing power. At later levels you might cast marked foe and want to run, this gives you the chance to stay within the range but still be mobile.

[CygnusX1]

The idea is that it gives you more flexibility and chasing power. At later levels you might cast marked foe and want to run, this gives you the chance to stay within the range but still be mobile.

A fixed range would be much more manageable and simpler.

[babagk]

i think its too op

[Sabre]

Fair enough Infektious. Changed.

[Ezio]

Great idea. Love it, in fact. However, i find his Marked foe slightly OP. Perhaps cap the amount of max damage he can do... cause if he hits the target 5 times, he'll end up doing a nuke each hit. Just imagine that with shieldbreaker and elder parasite.

[Sabre]

Great idea. Love it, in fact. However, i find his Marked foe slightly OP. Perhaps cap the amount of max damage he can do... cause if he hits the target 5 times, he'll end up doing a nuke each hit. Just imagine that with shieldbreaker and elder parasite.

The damage does not increase with each hit. Its just as if he applied a armour debuff that only works when he attacks.

[SLASHER`]

Very nice. All of the skills are unique and cool. My only critical thoughts are about the ult. It would make him ungankable. What if he had to cast it on himself and it would work for a duration of time (similar to Dazzle's shallow grave, but with the effects of this ult instead). That way he wouldn't be ungankable. This is a very impressive hero and you have my full T-UP.

[Hippie]

Eh, I don't think that forcing him to cast it is necessary - he's pretty fragile as it is, and a smart team can still finish him off by positioning someone behind him as they kill him the first time.

[junglebadger]

Looks good, but i have to agree about the ultimate. Give enemies some way to kill you before the ultimate goes off, in the same way that Accursed works

[ecyoj143]

this hero's kinda imba you know

[Sabre]

Looks good, but i have to agree about the ultimate. Give enemies some way to kill you before the ultimate goes off, in the same way that Accursed works

So you're saying I should put something like this in? "Notes: DBD cannot activate while stunned or silenced."

Wait, I already did. WHEN I FIRST POSTED THIS HERO. Also, accursed's ult cannot be stopped from activating- the only way to prevent it is to kill him outright before that happens, which only a select few heroes can do. DBD basically amounts to a free auto-blink and damage prevention. Perfectly fine as an ult.

[Techno_Mage]

the only thing i would change would be the non escaping if stunned or silenced and making the teleport attack either invisible to the enemy(they don't see a debuff on their bars, tho good oponents would see your mana decrease) or based on you pressing the button once they leave the range as a forced teleport could screw you over too easily if they have portal key or how about if they port to their fountain(so make a max distance it can attack too), at that moment they surpased the boundaries so are you gunna follow them straight into hell itself(their fountain)?

i really don't think teleporting is that OP as they can easily predict your exact location and else they will just save a stun and it will never go off basically

[Sabre]

If you like this hero please check out my Str Contest entry Ashraf, linked in my comment. I'm really hoping for some good feedback.