PDA

View Full Version : Why do you think Forsaken Archer is a hard carry and Andromeda isn't?



Bumblebees
06-30-2010, 10:08 AM
I'm curious why people think Forsaken Archer is a hard carry (or semi-carry if you feel the need to argue that), and that andromeda is not.




I'm not trying to make a point, this is purely a curiosity induced post based on various posts I've read about what people seem to think a 'carry' is.

Django
06-30-2010, 10:10 AM
fa has a good ultimate, andro has not

RogerDodger
06-30-2010, 10:11 AM
Andromeda can't farm
Andromeda has crappy range
Andromeda is slower

etspaceman
06-30-2010, 10:13 AM
Andromeda can't farm
Andromeda has crappy range
Andromeda is slower

Quoted For Truth

chehawara
06-30-2010, 10:20 AM
fa has a good ultimate, andro has not

FA's ultimate is mediocre and situational imo And i think Andros ult is way better since i'ts a gr8 intitiation tool to take out high priority targets before the fight even begins.

But on topic: I consider :andr: support(carry-support) because the only skills she has that scale buffs her :zeph::fors::valk: allys more then herself because she unlike semi-carrys dont have any good farming tools. A carry either have strong scaling skills or strong farming skills, :andr: has team oriented scaling skills in her aura and aurora wich coupled with a semi-carry that farms crazy like :fors: makes her more valuable as a support hero than a carry herself.

Nubshtrike
06-30-2010, 10:21 AM
all of andromeda's abilities are supportive.

Antifate
06-30-2010, 10:22 AM
Worse stat gain. Worse range (in danger more often). Suicidal ultimate (in danger more often). No skeletons of rape. Slower (obviously due to the lack of a mount :D). Can't farm, ganks more.

RogerDodger
06-30-2010, 10:26 AM
Worse stat gain. Worse range (in danger more often). Suicidal ultimate (in danger more often). No skeletons of rape. Slower (obviously due to the lack of a mount :D). Can't farm, ganks more.Andromeda has fairly good starting agility with a respectable str gain.

Andromeda
16 (2.3)
27 (2.3)
15 (1.8)

Forsaken Archer
17 (1.7)
22 (2.7)
17 (1.8)

It's not stats as much as it is simply farming power and range.

Antifate
06-30-2010, 10:35 AM
Worse stat gain in the "hardcarry I have Shrunken Head and need to do as much damage as possible in the few seconds I'm all jacked up" department. :-P

YerkYerk
06-30-2010, 10:40 AM
FA has a useful scaling skill, whereas Andro has a scaling skill that benefits the entire team. FA can farm like mad, Andro is great for initiation (and initiatiors often die).

PerfectBlue
06-30-2010, 10:44 AM
Forsaken Archer is a semi-carry, not hard.

Bumblebees
06-30-2010, 10:46 AM
Forsaken Archer is a semi-carry, not hard.

You obviously read the OP.

Seventy4
06-30-2010, 10:47 AM
its split shot

Bumblebees
06-30-2010, 10:49 AM
I find these answers quite amazing so far. None of these responses are seen when people ask "What is a hard carry?".

QKO
06-30-2010, 10:50 AM
You obviously read the OP.
Well it's a big difference. And FA carries on splitshot during mid/lategame where she'll be debuffing the entire opposing team with shieldbreakers.

Seventy4
06-30-2010, 10:53 AM
to all those retards who think andro is no carry because of her lack of farming ability.
look at arachna or even cd

Bumblebees
06-30-2010, 10:54 AM
Well it's a big difference. And FA carries on splitshot during mid/lategame where she'll be debuffing the entire opposing team with shieldbreakers.

Hey, good job reading too. :arma:

He posted that FA is a semi-carry, despite the fact that in the OP I said "or semi-carry if you feel the need to argue that". I guess he felt the need to argue that, though it seems more likely, like most people, he decided to post before reading. *shrug*

etspaceman
06-30-2010, 10:54 AM
to all those retards who think andro is no carry because of her lack of farming ability.
look at arachna or even cd

Arachna has far, far better range, and has insane base damage.

Corrupted Disciple has an AOE farming skill in his Electric Tide.

YerkYerk
06-30-2010, 10:59 AM
to all those retards who think andro is no carry because of her lack of farming ability.
look at arachna or even cd

Lol, I know it's off-topic, but :corr: is a beastly farmer. His electric tide, his ult and his movespeed buff all give him insane farming possibilities.

PerfectBlue
06-30-2010, 11:05 AM
You obviously read the OP.

Yes I did. And my reply is the same, she is a semi carry not hard. I am answering the first part your sentence. The second part has already been answered multiple times by other users (regarding Andromeda).

Grace
06-30-2010, 11:07 AM
she's not a hard carry and she has no scaling ability. like many heros, she is a semi-carry based on one fact: she farms and pushes like a beast and if left alone will outfarm everyone and rape midgame. Same as valk, SS, hag, etc. They are carries through farming or ganking, not through scaling abilities.

andromeda does not possess this farming ability. she is a ganker but not the kind that gets the last hits. arachna is a ganker who gets 'last hits.' andromeda is a ganker who opens the gank with a stun, making it less likely she'll get the kill.

RogerDodger
06-30-2010, 11:18 AM
Arachna also has insane stat gains

pk_thunder
06-30-2010, 11:26 AM
well, a very important thing for carries is that they have to farm. :arac: might have only single target abilities but her stats and OP dmg (she hits so hard that it gets stupid to try to out last hit her ._.) makes her jungle effectively. :arac: also has amazing atk speed with most of her builds (without items like charged hammer) so it makes here even a better carry (compared to heroes that can farm pretty easily like :pebb:...). heroes like :souls: just farm too easily, nothing else to say.


Lol, I know it's off-topic, but :corr: is a beastly farmer. His electric tide, his ult and his movespeed buff all give him insane farming possibilities.
cd isn't a very good farmer, his tide isn't spammable tbh and u really wanna save ur ult most of the time for actual chasing (he is a ganking and semi-carry). the real reason he shines is because of corrupted conduit, which makes him not need items for dmg

xHomicide
06-30-2010, 11:44 AM
She has short range, low move speed, and a dangerous ultimate. Bad farming abilities and bad suvivability don't exactly lead to a great lategame farm.

Joester818
06-30-2010, 11:56 AM
[QUOTE=Bumblebees;1903748]I'm curious why people think Forsaken Archer is a hard carry (or semi-carry if you feel the need to argue that), and that andromeda is not.


Because androm is support based carry. The hero can dish out some good damage and has good ganking stun ability but end game is not a viable hard carry. Fa has great farming ability. A well geared fa will out carry an androm any day.

chaRx
06-30-2010, 12:17 PM
Lol, I know it's off-topic, but :corr: is a beastly farmer. His electric tide, his ult and his movespeed buff all give him insane farming possibilities.

Conduit is what makes CD a carry, not his mediocre farming abilities.

etspaceman
06-30-2010, 12:50 PM
Conduit is what makes CD a carry, not his mediocre farming abilities.

Well, yes. Still, He has what most carries lack; an AOE farming spell (hence why most melee carries need to get a Runed Axe). It's not amazing, but it certainly works.

TDA101
06-30-2010, 01:29 PM
FA can hard carry. Split shot amplifies your dps by 260%. If that isn't scaling what is?

Stack dem orbz.

And I'm sick of hearing. semi/hard carry. Let's just call them all carries yer?

ogmilk
06-30-2010, 01:48 PM
fa has a good ultimate, andro has not

fa's ulti is ****ing crap

Rialian
06-30-2010, 02:13 PM
FA can hard carry. Split shot amplifies your dps by 260%. If that isn't scaling what is?

Stack dem orbz.

And I'm sick of hearing. semi/hard carry. Let's just call them all carries yer?

Indeed, split shot amplifies overall dmg output. Also skeletons works well till late game. As far as I'm concerned hard carry and semi-carry differentiates when it comes to carry vs carry combat. In even situations a hard carry is most likely to win against a semi-carry. For that i consider FA as a semi-carry as she is most likely to lose against magebane, nighthound, sandwraith... However, her farming potantial makes her a good candidate to carry a game as farming with FA is way more easier then farming with magebane or sandwraith.
When it comes to leaving last hits to carries MB and NH has priority over FA.
Andromeda as many others have said is a support carry. Which makes her a carry if there is noone else to carry in the team. But if there is any other carry in the team andromeda's job is to support them.
I think MB>FA>Andro.
I'm a terrible player as my stats will indicate so these information is not to be trusted unless a good player confirms. Still i wanted to share my opinion.

Regards,

HoRRoR
06-30-2010, 02:33 PM
andro can support so good with her stun, -armor(and a speccing ability for woods), and ofcourse her ulti, to get an important hero of the enemy team and focus him or to help one of ur carrys

if theres no other carry in team(,...? public maybe) shes able to carry if she gets a farm, with geo she just rocks, but as supporter shes more usefull
--

fa can just farm sooo good, she can even farm in woods with her skelets - and she got an aoe stun with a rly nice ulti (if u can use it good)

Crabski
06-30-2010, 02:56 PM
FA is a crappy semi-carry, not at all a hard carry. I'm aware that you stated that in the OP, but it makes a huge difference; you can't just brush off a statement like that.

OT though, Andro can't farm well, doesn't do as much damage (autoattack AND spells), has a low range/movespeed, and has better uses outside carrying.

CallofDuty5
06-30-2010, 03:11 PM
Indeed, split shot amplifies overall dmg output. Also skeletons works well till late game. As far as I'm concerned hard carry and semi-carry differentiates when it comes to carry vs carry combat. In even situations a hard carry is most likely to win against a semi-carry. For that i consider FA as a semi-carry as she is most likely to lose against magebane, nighthound, sandwraith... However, her farming potantial makes her a good candidate to carry a game as farming with FA is way more easier then farming with magebane or sandwraith.
When it comes to leaving last hits to carries MB and NH has priority over FA.
Andromeda as many others have said is a support carry. Which makes her a carry if there is noone else to carry in the team. But if there is any other carry in the team andromeda's job is to support them.
I think MB>FA>Andro.
I'm a terrible player as my stats will indicate so these information is not to be trusted unless a good player confirms. Still i wanted to share my opinion.

Regards,

ill t-up that for what its worth
and in reference to your stats, they seem to be more or less on par with mine so i dunno how your doing it wrong to be 1400-

MasterGeese
07-03-2010, 05:36 PM
Swapping an enemy carry for yourself(A carry) doesn't accomplish much, unless the other carry is outrageously more farmed.

Swapping an enemy carry for yourself(A support/initator) takes out a key enemy hero at a minimal cost.

That and what's been said before. Andro is an awful farmer, has no range, and is much better suited as a support.

CoolCly
07-03-2010, 05:56 PM
Andromeda actually has two REALLY good abilities for carrying, Aura and Aurora, and a great high damage stun, but the fact is that both Aura and Aurora work will work with team as well, making Andromeda supporting another carry even better than if she were to carry.


I mean if you get steamboots with a wingbow, Andromeda can actually do really well, but a Dark Lady with a wingbow and steamboots + andromeda will be much better than an Andromeda.