How to know if you are good enough

[Hecktik]

I'm trying to improve in hopes of getting myself to a point where I'm competent enough to play competitively before trying to hop on a good team.

I been playin dota for about a year i guess, but other than playin a few games with a friend or two i mostly Pub, so I'm looking for things I can do to practice or guage myself on how close i am.

Anyone mind tossing a few words of advice of their experience(if youve played competitively) or anything else?

[Communists]

If you play apem you aren't good.

[stevefox]

The first step is to play non -EM games. There isn't really any quantitative measure of 'good enough'. You could ask someone you know with competitive experience to play with you and give you tips or rate your performance. You should know every hero, and all of their abilities as well as common builds on them. If you are able to maintain a 1:1 k:d ratio or higher and find yourself being a contributing member to consistently winning teams, you may consider trying out for a competitive team.

[Shadey]

When searching for a pub game, set your filters to no leavers, no em, single draft, noobs allowed. Then, keep playing game after game like that and eventually you'll learn about every hero and how things work.

[Sai]

When searching for a pub game, set your filters to no leavers, no em, single draft, noobs allowed. Then, keep playing game after game like that and eventually you'll learn about every hero and how things work.

RD is better, because it teaches you how to pick.

[Hecktik]

I think you guys mis-understood me. I posted it here because I meant I was already beyond a "beginner". I know all the heros, the items, most of the builds that go with them.

I don't play -em games, don't even know why anyone plays em. Anyone smart enough to pick a pusher won the game before it even started.

[Gangbangjoe]

Are u frustrated because everything you try in team combination fails? Do you think the people you play with are noob? Do you think you actually did a really good job even though you lost?

If yes you got 2 options:

1. You are one of those ragenerds that don't know english and manage to say "team is very nob" and ruining the game theirselves.
2. You are too good for the rating you are on and you need to find some friends / a clan for better games.

[Isin]

If you know how to coordinate with your team, you're good, and your team is good.

[Darkstrand]

Generally what you want is to keep yourself open to suggestion, and really take in what information you can.

Most of the things you taught yourself how to do in HoN or DotA to get you where you are - will probably be the wrong way to do it should you play higher level games, be ready to face this and not get all pissy when someone tells you you're doing something wrong.

[Completeli]

Hmm, I kinda have the same mindset as you do.I'm not sure if I'm good enough yet for the competitive thing, but I think I'm at my limit at what I can learn from pubbing. I don't think PSR means much at all, just that for a few games someone had 4 people on their team that weren't retards so I don't know how else to judge myself.

I pub most of the time and its getting me pretty frustrated. Its because I play with expectations, like if im in a lane with someone and run up and use a disable, I expect them to assist and follow up with theirs. In pubs that isn't the case, almost 95% of the time if i disable an enemy hero in lane my lane mate is runnin back to the tower.

I play with a friend or two from time to time, and when that happens we will usually win every game we play together for most of the nite. I think no amount of knowledge or skill can compete with a group of people who play together and know what each other will do in a situation.

So I'm still tryin to find a group of skilled people who work well and are fun to play with so we can play other like people instead of pubstomp. Cuz seriously.. I think 2-3 good players could have AI for teammates and still do well against an "above-average" pub (ie. not brain dead)

[Shadey]

if im in a lane with someone and run up and use a disable, I expect them to assist and follow up with theirs. In pubs that isn't the case, almost 95% of the time if i disable an enemy hero in lane my lane mate is runnin back to the tower.

not sure what you're talking about... probably ever single time I disable, the partner with me helps out. I even used to harass people with disables in the past, but stopped because every time my teammate would think I'm attacking and run in and probably die. I think you just need communication, or even without talking, you can sometimes tell when your friend is ready to attack with you or not (e.g. he's staying close in fighting and not far away standing).

offtopic: this HONAGE thing needs to be updated abit...

[Ozram]

Im soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo tired of losing 5 consecutive games this night only because your "teammates" doesnt know what means a team, and the madman of the other team who also doesnt know what is a team hunts them all 1 by 1.

¿When do you know you are good enough?, never, you and all people will always be a **** like me. But found a team, a clan. That can be good cause the only thing that can be good are teams and not players. Players can only be leavers, feeders, people who thinks are pros cause killed a noob feeder, conceders, or cryiers (like me).

[zackattk]

Are u frustrated because everything you try in team combination fails? Do you think the people you play with are noob? Do you think you actually did a really good job even though you lost?

If yes you got 2 options:

1. You are one of those ragenerds that don't know english and manage to say "team is very nob" and ruining the game theirselves.
2. You are too good for the rating you are on and you need to find some friends / a clan for better games.

Anybody else find this slightly ironic at all?

[zzSleeper]

Improving takes a lot of time and dedication, espeically for a game as complex as HoN. Here's my advice:

Despite the complaints you read on the forums, the PSR system is mostly working well. Make a high-PSR friend (or anyone you know you consider better than yourself) and practice coordinating with them in games. In general, you want to play games with the most skilled people that will let you play with them. If you're PSR 1400, player 1400+ games - if your PSR is 1600, play 1600+ games, etc. You will learn the most from these games, even if you lose. Pay attention to what higher-PSR players do: how they move, what items they buy, and what strategies they use.

The road to improvement in HoN means you'll to have to endure a lot of put-downs and trash talking, even from your team-mates. Try not to let it get to you. As long as you're learning from your mistakes, a loss isn't really a loss.

Read threads like this (http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?t=12622) and listen to the people who know what they're talking about. If you don't know who knows what they're talking about, most serious competitive players will have PSRs of 1900+. A lot of other people also have a good understanding of balance but until you start to pick up on it it'll be hard to know whose advice to take. Use sites like this (http://hon.slawed.net/view.php) to look up other player's PSRs. Some higher level strats may not work in lower level pub games, but the sooner you start learning the metagame the better off you'll be.

Play RD. Skilled players tend to prefer RD because there's more variety than normal pick and less randomness than sd (you can always get a viable team). With the information you learn from the above sorts of threads you'll know who to pick and why. Read high-rated strategy guides for these characters in the forums. Talk with your friend and choose pairs that work together.

[Wrathmont]

Anybody else find this slightly ironic at all?

Rofl for someone ranting about english skills he totally failed grasping this thread.

[Inde2142]

If my teammates like my playing style, then i think im good enough.

[Sunforger]

I also would like to ask for advice here:
I played DotA for 7+ years and was around medium skill, but I am still a noob in HoN after 150+ games. It seems that I can't transfer my individual skill to HoN because even pubs are played quite differently. I have an aggressive style which served well in DotA but it does not work in HoN. I was expecting that aggressiveness would be even better in HoN, but that is not the case. Majority of the players are from passive to ultra-passive.
Can anyone give an advice - how to adjust? I don't want to change my personal style if there is some other method.

[Shadey]

I also would like to ask for advice here:
I played DotA for 7+ years and was around medium skill, but I am still a noob in HoN after 150+ games. It seems that I can't transfer my individual skill to HoN because even pubs are played quite differently. I have an aggressive style which served well in DotA but it does not work in HoN. I was expecting that aggressiveness would be even better in HoN, but that is not the case. Majority of the players are from passive to ultra-passive.
Can anyone give an advice - how to adjust? I don't want to change my personal style if there is some other method.

I believe it's possible to be pretty good being aggressive if you have someone supporting/disabling for you.

There was this one game I joined, I picked Kraken. I was never really good with kraken or got alot of kills with him before. However, my lane partner was an extremely aggressive glacius who kept consistently attacking and disabling the 2 melee heroes against us and made it extremely easy for me to get the kills off them. I ended up with like 9 kills before the 20 min mark. The game ended in 30 mins =)

[Pho3nix]

-pulling creeps dont hang around near enemy tower hero coming back from pulling might backstab u

-map awareness ur whole team pushing mid and 2 enemy heroes only in mid they cant be hanging around mid unless thier team mates hiding waiting for engagement

-dont dive to kill one creep on low hp could cost u a death wait for the next creep wave

see alot of people fail to get that idea

[Skarstruck]

U wanna step up your game... best strategy... when you play with a player that is good has good synergy or he does really well and not by just luck, or buys observer wards... add him as a buddy and stalk him :) follow him to every game and try to be on his team... odds are he has good friends that he plays with. add every good player to buddy list so you have about 40 and follow around... never play games alone and youll improve alot. having good support base allows you to do more than just carry youll learn to play good support ect!

Also youll be alot less frustrated and will learn to play better... also its a good idea to tell them and make sure they are ok with it :P

[_Archangel_]

I also would like to ask for advice here:
I played DotA for 7+ years and was around medium skill, but I am still a noob in HoN after 150+ games. It seems that I can't transfer my individual skill to HoN because even pubs are played quite differently. I have an aggressive style which served well in DotA but it does not work in HoN. I was expecting that aggressiveness would be even better in HoN, but that is not the case. Majority of the players are from passive to ultra-passive.
Can anyone give an advice - how to adjust? I don't want to change my personal style if there is some other method.

It's not your problem, it's the problem of the "ultra-passive" teammates that you find in pubs. If you get a good team, you will dominate with a strong, aggressive style.

@ OP, general things that you need for competitive play are:

* Strong lane control ability
* Good last-hit and denying ability
* The ability to play your hero to fit the role that it is designed for.
* The instinct and intuition to make good decisions that benefit your team that can only be gained by simply playing many games.

Find some teammates that you can work together and co-ordinate well with, and also it helps if you find a certain role or playstyle on your team that you play exceptionally well (e.g. You might find yourself extremely able playing ganking heroes).

[EverM]

1. Start playing good heroes. (I know don't troll alright?)
2. Buy wards if your hero is suited for it.
3. Always go pick last, pick the hero your team doesn't have.
4. Teamwork > anything.
5. Get a team and try a unique combo.

[Sunforger]

_Archangel_
Thank you for the excellent answer. I tried this method and it works wonders. For example, we take Magmus+Jereziah or Glacius+Swiftblade, kill opponents twice by level 4, and by level 5 they can only leech XP behind the tower.
It happens so rare in pubs I want to cry. It seems that in order to win pubs alone I have to change style like I did for DotA League - take some carry and farm for 40 mins, then rape.

[Elerion]

_Archangel_
It seems that in order to win pubs alone I have to change style like I did for DotA League - take some carry and farm for 40 mins, then rape.
If you're playing games below your actual level (Say your fair PSR should be 1800, but you're 1550 because you have a new account), you have to play heroes where your higher skill allows you to carry the game. Choose a carry and out-farm everyone for the lategame, or possibly an early game dominator that can feed off weak opponents and rule the mid-game.

If you're playing games closer to your true level, you won't be as dominant anymore. Now's the time to choose what the team really needs, and trust your teammates to do their jobs as well.

Want to play competitive? Buy bottle + courier.

Take mid lane, keep your courier near the tower or in forest.

Nuke your enemy 24/7 with your spells and use your courier to fill your bottle! Yey your competitive uhm erm or annoying hehe.

[Zcorp]

Proficient at last hitting Become familiar with neutral pulling. Know how to pull, how fast to kill the neutral camp to continue pulling. Know why neutral pulling is advantageous.
Advanced ward placement (most dota players are largely ignorant of proper ward placement, missing subtle but important differences in warding).
Hero knowledge, you should be aware of every skill on every hero and how it functions. Damage type, range, mana cost, stun duration, slow% etc.
Have comprehensive knowledge on why heroes are picked and what roles they play on a competitive team.
Be aware of proper item builds and be fluid enough in this builds to adapt to in game circumstance.
Map control, know why its important and how to maximize its effect
Reading the mini map. This includes both building a good habit so checking the mini map constantly is interiorized. As well being able to guess with great accuracy where every opposing hero is despite not having current vision on them.
Understanding lexicon
Comprehensive understanding of advanced strategy (dual pushiing, pressuring, team building, etc)


Remember this is primarily a strategy game, not a tactical game.

[refraxion]

What they said, oh and you are good enough when your name isn't Feios also =).

Last hitting is key, teamwork is crucial in this game. You have to have the right positioning as well.

[TerranEarth]

The way to know if your competent in competitive play or not is to play high skill leveled games to test you limits as a player (all players with 1800-1900 PSR or versus 5 competitent friends). If you do well in those games you have what it takes. If you feed and are completely clueless you need to develop more familiarty w/ the game or more skill/focus. And all competitive players DOMINATE pub scrubs. So when you reach that level, you've got what it takes.

BTW, you also need to know the right people to get on a top tiered team. So you're play needs to be so good you get recognized.

[k1nGs0n]

I'm trying to improve in hopes of getting myself to a point where I'm competent enough to play competitively before trying to hop on a good team.

Anyone mind tossing a few words of advice of their experience(if youve played competitively) or anything else?

a good team? n**** please
just look for a low-skilled team and start to play funwars/clanwars with them. this is the one and only way to improve your skills on a competitive level.
you learn so many things in wars that you can never learn in pubs:
- warding / anti warding
- map awareness/ initiate ganks / tp scroll defense ( one or two get ganked at a tower and the rest of the team tps to this tower immediately)
- teamfights/combos
- picking /banning
- lane combos
- team mixed of caster/supporter/tank/damagedealer, not in pubs where i see 5 melee agi heroes in a team, jesus christ gimme a break
- several strategies like push, gank etc.

dont listen to the other guys here who tell you how to neutral pull, lasthit or having a good psr. lol.
get a clan and this will come automatically. your mates will tell you what to do and they will mentor you, not some guys in a forum...

after an uncertain amount of time you will realise yourself if you made the step to be midskilled, with or without the team. then you can move on and probably look for a new team or keep playing with them.
its like everywhere in life. take every step of the ladder one by one.

tl. dr. :
stop playing pubs and find a clan

[LegoPirate]

I'm trying to improve in hopes of getting myself to a point where I'm competent enough to play competitively before trying to hop on a good team.

I been playin dota for about a year i guess, but other than playin a few games with a friend or two i mostly Pub, so I'm looking for things I can do to practice or guage myself on how close i am.

Anyone mind tossing a few words of advice of their experience(if youve played competitively) or anything else?


my personal suggestion - go download garena for dota (www.garena.com (http://www.garena.com))

then go into the europe servers and go into one of the clan war rooms. lots of people there look for extra players (even tho its techincally illegal). join a game there, probably mid or high skilled, and then see how you do.

if you can hang with a team that works together like a team, and does wards/courier and all that jazz, then consider trying to get a team together for hon. if you cant do it on dota, you most certainly wont be able to do it on hon.