Add a hint box that briefly decribes how each hero is supposed to be used

[Karmashock]

Each hero has a tactic that is effective and it isn't always obvious. I was using the devourer and didn't realize that the stink ability is critical to his effectiveness. It looked like a bad idea on paper because it damages you as much as anyone else. But when playing it became clear that he was useless without it.


Just a little hint/recommendation section where you're picking characters that gives you a heads up as to how it's supposed to work.


Or if that's not possible then maybe a pop up immediately after load that recommends initial abilities, tactics, and items in three or four sentences. Obviously this should be something that can be disabled if people don't like it, but it's a nice default option for new players that don't want to suffer through 40 trial and error games to figure each character out. It's kind of frustrating to be continually in a "what the hell am I doing" situation.

[Sordak]

would be nice, but wayt i know whats gonna happen.


like in the Starcraft 2 forums where they complained about the fact that you could select as much units as you want. they said it would be more pro and would require more skill if you could only select a limited number of units.


why do i think exactly THIS will happen here too.

[SyKot]

Well. This is in DotA now. -tips command does this

[Karmashock]

as to star craft, there's no reason why someone should be prevented from selecting all their units and rushing them forward in a massive wave. If "that" is effective then the problem isn't selecting units it's the lack of tactics in the game system. Do that in a good RTS and they all die. The "pros" will have taken advantage of better ground, unit formation, and other tactical elements to grind mobbed units to dust.


As to the "-tips" command newbies aren't going to know to do that. Look, if you want to turn it off then do so... but give newbies a chance to figure what is going on before sending them into the meat grinder.

[Elaeli]

Or you could stop being lazy and read one of the bazillion extensive DotA guides on the net, or even the ones on the HoN forums instead of trying to make the devs implement a feature that would require monthly edits whenever new heroes are added or item builds become fotm, nevermind the DOZENS of different situations requiring different builds that would have to be covered.

[Impeeched]

Yeah this would be helpful, explaining the basic playing method and some basic item tips for each hero.

[Mefix]

If there wont to be a tutorial on 1 of each types of heroes and their abilities, it would seem that s2 learned nothing from sav1, sav2 and demigod with dota. Basics should be explained ingame, for extensive strategies there are guides by other players.

[SyKot]

Im not saying to implement the exact -tips command in HoN.
I agree with your idea Karmashock. Was just pointing out that DotA has started to make it more newb friendly :)
But still, you should be able to check the hints ingame, dhis uring actual play. And check this
http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?t=1327
it's kinda related..

[Karmashock]

Or you could stop being lazy
It's a game... not a career.
==============================================

Im not saying to implement the exact -tips command in HoN.
I agree with your idea Karmashock. Was just pointing out that DotA has started to make it more newb friendly :)
But still, you should be able to check the hints ingame, dhis uring actual play. And check this
http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?t=1327
it's kinda related..
I'm not asking for the moon here.

Maybe a few general item strategies for int, str, and agi characters... and a one sentence explanation of a given character's primary tactic.

That should be enough. If in hint mode, you might include little pop ups that say "I noticed you've not brought any healing items... maybe you should pick up some ruins, champ."...


Everyone benefits from this.

The newbies benefit from not being clueless and get to have a better time. The better players benefit because they get more players that can play with them. More newbies will graduate to their level making for better games. S2 benefits in raw sales and probable longer game life.


Everyone wins.

[Drasha]

I can see this kind of thing helping a lot. Some thing like what the hero is good at (tanking hero killing controling ect) then give you an idea what item you should buy first and why.

[Blu3]

If there wont to be a tutorial on 1 of each types of heroes and their abilities, it would seem that s2 learned nothing from sav1, sav2 and demigod with dota. Basics should be explained ingame, for extensive strategies there are guides by other players.

Figuring out how to play a hero is one of the most funny part of the game.


I was using the devourer and didn't realize that the stink ability is critical to his effectiveness.

EVERY ability of EVERY hero is somehow crucial. If you're not using all of your 4 abilities, you're doing something wrong. As there are tons of ways to play each hero, giving new players 1 strategy will most likely lead to one-sided games because everyone will use that 1 strategy.



it would seem that s2 learned nothing from sav1, sav2 and demigod with dota.
It would seem that you learned nothing from playing HoN. if you don't know how to play a certain hero after 2-3 games you should probably rethink your tactics/playing style.

[Sordak]

Blu3: no, first: no figurin out how to play a hero isnt fun when you get stomped all the time.
no, second: not every skill is usefull whats with wards on slither? nobody uses them because they are useless.
no,three: yeah exactly, if you never played dota and you play a hero three times you should be able to know him exactly ?

[Blu3]

no, second: not every skill is usefull whats with wards on slither? nobody uses them because they are useless.
You obviously don't know how to play slither. His wards are not only excellent to push, they are also GODLY to scout the area around you. You can place them on higher regions to scout a large area around you. Why would S2 add a senseless ability, THAT doesn't make sense.


no,three: yeah exactly, if you never played dota and you play a hero three times you should be able to know him exactly ?
If you grasped the basics, you would be able to play him, yes.

[SausageEx]

Blu3: no, first: no figurin out how to play a hero isnt fun when you get stomped all the time.
no, second: not every skill is usefull whats with wards on slither? nobody uses them because they are useless.
no,three: yeah exactly, if you never played dota and you play a hero three times you should be able to know him exactly ?

Every skill is useful depending on your playstyle, i love the Slither wards, they are far from useless as they can be used in much situations "creep blocking, hero blocking, rune sight, 20manacost dps, distractor, mind games, etc, etc ,etc.

[Karmashock]

Figuring out how to play a hero is one of the most funny part of the game.
Yes but that doesn't mean you throw people in blind.

Most games include a comprehensive tutorial. This would provide that in a simple way.


As to all abilities being crucial, I think even the most experienced players would disagree. There have to be some abilities that are of limited use.

You're clearly not going to use the tutorial anyway, so why do you care? Honestly, I've noticed hostility from some of the old school Dota players to introducing so much as simple help for new players? what is that?

Do you want this game to never have new players?

I just don't get it. At worst you shouldn't care because it doesn't effect you. But many seem to want people to fail at this game. Does the inability of others to play enhance your experience? I honestly have no idea why you're objecting. Help me out. All I can do at this point is guess.


Love and peace, Karmashock.

[Kris3]

"how each hero can be used"


fixed

[DoNuT1]

Yes but that doesn't mean you throw people in blind.

Most games include a comprehensive tutorial. This would provide that in a simple way.


As to all abilities being crucial, I think even the most experienced players would disagree. There have to be some abilities that are of limited use.

You're clearly not going to use the tutorial anyway, so why do you care? Honestly, I've noticed hostility from some of the old school Dota players to introducing so much as simple help for new players? what is that?

Do you want this game to never have new players?

I just don't get it. At worst you shouldn't care because it doesn't effect you. But many seem to want people to fail at this game. Does the inability of others to play enhance your experience? I honestly have no idea why you're objecting. Help me out. All I can do at this point is guess.


Love and peace, Karmashock.

Your on the money.

People want terrible players so they can farm them. Statpadding, if you will.

[Netukka]

Even the new -tips feature in DotA isnt for exactly for the beginners, its more for the ones who have played at least a bit. The one time I used it gave me advice like "All of your skills are useful so pick at least one point in all of them", no way, all the skills are useful? Another one was something like "Your skill X costs a lot of mana, try buying mana regen items", newbie goes, what items? Theres at least 10 with mana regen, which one?

Imo there should be a tutorial of the very basics to the commonly needed tactics. Like why bother last hitting. Whats the point of denying. How does creep aggro work. Whats the point of killing neutrals creeps. Whats the difference between having 1 hero or 5 heroes on a lane. Why is having a ranged on every lane at the start of the game crucial in almost all cases. Why are cheap stat/regen consumable items good. Why buy boots.

Just simple stuff that might sound obvious to anyone who has played for a while, but what might still be completely oblivious to new players. Too bad Maliken said something about there not being a tutorial once in chat. Hopefully someone makes a comprehensive guide on the forums at least...

[randomhavoc]

In another game of similar origin they provided a list of recommended item builds for the hero you select for your first few games so you get an idea of what's going on.

Perhaps a toggleable overlay for help that would give you extra info for your skills for new people, or even just some tips like in the new DoTA build - for instance which skills are typically the primary skills to level up until 6 (this is a pretty key time not to be a newb). Yes, certain heroes can be played multiple ways, but you could always have a few suggestions, other heroes, Krob or Omniknight for example, will always get the same skill as a primary.

Obviously this would be an option since anyone who played DoTA for a good amount should know everything about each hero that completely new and at the very least have a good general grasp to be able to make an educated build for those newer heroes.