Bottle/Potions - Should creeps have to deal more than just 1 damage for them to be dispelled?

[Foxboxx]

It seems like it's a little luck based at times. You're running from an enemy and you think the creeps have reset and are no longer going to hit you, so you pop a potion/bottle charge that you think you will get at least 2+ seconds of use out of before the enemy hero lands another attack, but then...

Ranged creep decides to land that final shot on you instead of going back to fighting the other creeps, like the melee creeps did. Maybe it's more of a problem with ranged creeps not resetting back to attacking creeps unless you walk out of range, but it still seems like a single shot from a creep that probably dealt less than 10 damage to you shouldn't break a Bottle/potion effect.

So, agree/disagree? Should creeps have to deal more than a single point of damage/hit you more than a single time to dispel a Bottle/potion effect?

[JilaX]

No, they shouldn't have to.
If you used your potion to early, that's your mistake.
This is the basics, you need to know when you can use it, an when you can't.

[Kakoda]

Agreed it should not change a i alwayz get potions waisted but in the end its my fault so they are fine as is wouldnt want 2 make it to easy

[VitaTimH]

I've noticed this the most with the damn siege creep. Support for 2+ hits.

[Foxboxx]

It's mainly a problem with the ranged creeps behaving differently than the melee creeps. They should give up on attacking you as quickly and as reliably as the melee creeps, but instead they'll continue attacking, which easily results in the unexpected catapult shot hitting you long after you got far away from the creeps.

[KeY533]

2+ attacks to dispel a pot/bottle would be nice

[ma5]

hello suggestion thread that belongs in suggestion forum but is cleverly disguised as a "balance question".

[Foxboxx]

hello suggestion thread that belongs in suggestion forum but is cleverly disguised as a "balance question".
I believe it's more a mix of balance (would bottle/potions be too powerful if this was put into place,) a possible bug (ranged creeps behaving much differently than melee creeps,) and some suggestions as to how to change it.

I do not believe it fully belongs in the suggestion forum or a bug report, so the balance section seems like the best place for it.

[WonderWhite]

Prefer as is

[n0ah_]

Sooner or later you'll learn when you can and when you can't use your pots. It still happens to me on a rare occasion, but I accept it as my mistake and that I have to keep a better eye on the ranged/siege creeps.

I would rather have something to learn and improve at instead of making it easier.

[ma5]

Sooner or later you'll learn when you can and when you can't use your pots. It still happens to me on a rare occasion, but I accept it as my mistake and that I have to keep a better eye on the ranged/siege creeps.

I would rather have something to learn and improve at instead of making it easier.
/thread, and the reason this shouldnt have been accepted in the balance section

[Yoy0`]

I agree and disagree to an extent. It isn't the melee creeps per se, it's just the range ones.

The reason why I agree is because that pot makes me feel like I have a 5th skill called "DISPEL MY POT NOW" to the creeps.

The reason why I disagree is because there IS a work around. That is, just because you use a pot doesn't make a creep automatically think "Must dispel."

[NocturnalxD]

I agree and disagree to an extent. It isn't the melee creeps per se, it's just the range ones.

The reason why I agree is because that pot makes me feel like I have a 5th skill called "DISPEL MY POT NOW" to the creeps.

The reason why I disagree is because there IS a work around. That is, just because you use a pot doesn't make a creep automatically think "Must dispel."
LoL.. creep said: "You used a pot, must... ATTACK!! *zombie moan*" [in a zombie voice]

@Balance Discussion
I think being hit 2 times is balanced.. cause 10 dmg is a lil big if your fast enough..

[HeroZealot]

Well im on both sides here, i agree it should be triggered on more than 1 damage but although i know how to use it i laugh at enemies when they fail at it.

Maybe for EM games you should have it saying 2 hits or 40+ damage for something whereas NM 1 damage and HC should be no pots just to Hardcore it up some more.

Well thats my 2 cents

Cheers

Pathetic :)

[Real_Wolf]

balanced, /thread

move to suggestions

[VonL`]

If someone uses his potion too early, he made a mistake and got punished for it. This should not change, I prefer the game to promote good decisions.

[ToxicMonkey]

Does not need changing. It would be imbalanced in another way to be able to pop potions while being under attack from whatever. I understand the idea that losing your pot due to one measly attack is annoying, but that's the way it is.

Keep it as is.

[Contriscion]

What about degen? Getting hit be the creeps as said in above posts can be avoided however using a potion while having a DoT on our hero instantly removes the potion which doesnt really make sense to me... The potion should be able to either try to heal through the DoT or remove it.

Thoughts?

[Exalion]

the rude way of saying is 'L2P'

Honestly though, HoN isn't nub friendly. this is easy to avoid with experience, and doesn't really effect skilled players (who are paying attention). No need for a change.

[Espeon]

If someone uses his potion too early, he made a mistake and got punished for it. This should not change, I prefer the game to promote good decisions.

Agreed.

[Brannock]

Remember when Nymphora's mana regeneration was able to be cancelled by creeps? Hmm I wonder why that got changed to hero-only damage...

[RockCrockier]

I forget what DotA's actual damage required to break a bottle/pot is, but I know its mroe than 1. This ends up being a bit of a buff to Pudge, since his rot damage is done in such small frequent intervals, that he can actually bottle while rotting as long as rot is rank 3 or less.

[Aphotix`]

Noob OP, moving on.

[Kudryavka]

Remember when Nymphora's mana regeneration was able to be cancelled by creeps? Hmm I wonder why that got changed to hero-only damage...
Probably because Nymph is a terrible hero that needs buffs like that. Health pots are plenty strong as they are.

[LightRain]

Keep it simple.

[D_E_R_P]

I have problems like this too. Sometimes, when i use my ulti bow on scout on an enemy they doesn't always die. Sometimes they survives with less then 30% hp. It's a bit hard to know if they will die or not, so it's mostly about luck. So please, give bow automaticly kill if enemy target runs below 30% hp!

(That's pretty much sh*t the same, this is how the game works, and it relies mainly on skill and experience. Don't make this game skillfree, that would be one big mistake)
So simply; No, don't implent this.

[strikermodel]

If someone uses his potion too early, he made a mistake and got punished for it. This should not change, I prefer the game to promote good decisions.
this.

[Nolifer]

This is an innate part of the game, keep it as it is IMO.

[Infigo]

poll please

against 2+ hits. wait to use the bottle, not the first 2 seconds of a fight

[ma5]

poll please

against 2+ hits. wait to use the bottle, not the first 2 seconds of a fight
this isnt the suggestion forum, polls arent used, we discuss balance, but yes, as i mentioned before this is presented as a suggestion question so it would fit better with a poll (in the suggestion forum).

[pk_thunder]

yes cus creeps just loves to atk u when ur potting

[ElementUser]

Too bad it's me, bad timing.

So no

[PzKw]

There is no solid reason for allowing it. HoN is broadly already too forgiving of mistakes and sloppy play against non-hero entities, so double no.

[schila]

Dont change it, fine as it is imo, you get punished if you use it to early which is fine, imo.

[Hat_Truck]

Remember when Nymphora's mana regeneration was able to be cancelled by creeps? Hmm I wonder why that got changed to hero-only damage...Umm because that's a hero skill, not a 100 gold potion. Would anybody use Protective Charm if it got removed on damage? YA NO.


Too bad it's me, bad timing.

So noLOL ELEMENTUSER MADE A FUNNY.

[Anakha]

Umm because that's a hero skill, not a 100 gold potion. Would anybody use Protective Charm if it got removed on damage? YA NO.


*protective charm*
Pyro stuns the person with Protective Charm.

Is it removed, or is it not?

DUN DUN DUN

[SarahBlasko`]

I believe it's more a mix of balance (would bottle/potions be too powerful if this was put into place,) a possible bug (ranged creeps behaving much differently than melee creeps,) and some suggestions as to how to change it.

I do not believe it fully belongs in the suggestion forum or a bug report, so the balance section seems like the best place for it.


So if a cake has cheese and chocolate on it, it belongs neither in the mudcake section nor the cheesecake section, and now must be placed in the balance discussion section because that appears to you to be the most logical place to put it.
I sense some failed logic here.

[pk_thunder]

mana pot can stay with 1 hit

hp pot could be turned to 2 hits

bottle should stay 1 hit, it's already pretty OP with bottle ferrying

[man_guy]

About the only change you could make to pots / bottle / potion is to make it not activate if you're taking a constant dot. Probably won't happen though.

[WarKirby]

Make it require you to suffer an amount of damage >= 2% of your max HP, to disrupt. Hero attacks will still disrupt this easily.

[Gorb]

No changes needed, if you get hit by a creep it's your own damn fault.