How to Backdoor Effectively

[Rasta]

Guide To Backdooring


Preface

Backdooring is a frowned upon strategy by many people, mostly by scrubs:mad: who don't buy wards or homecoming stones to deal with it.
However, some heroes are made to backdoor and it is part of their strength to take down as many raxes as possible.
In this guide I am going to capitalize on those heroes, how to pull a dirty one at the start of a team battle, and lastly, how to COUNTER a backdoor.:eek:?


The King and Queen of Backdoor



The two strongest backdoor heroes are Ophelia and Warbeast. They are the gods of backdoor, the lords of lame, the chairmen of cheese.
Ophelia gets the strength of backdooring from controlled creeps and puzzlebox, Warbeast from speed, sheer dps, and invisible summons. They are tricky to stop, and trickier to kill. Lets start with Warbeast because hes not as complicated to play and learn as Ophelia.


:warb:WARBEAST:warb:


Warbeast is a strength dps hero with jungle capability. He has the strongest true base dps in the game without any items, and with gear he's a monster. Warbeast can usually kill most heroes early-mid game under his ultimate and with wolves, but a farmed agility carry can kill him in a head to head fight, depending on warbeast's items and the agility carry's. For an item build and early game with Warbeast, start with Abyssal skull for farming and Steamboots. After that your item build will vary depending on their team, but in most cases it will involve shrunken head and more dps items. This is perfect for backdooring. Here is how you take down a rax.

1. Mindlessly push a lane and hope the other team doens't come to stop you (Warbeast can push hard). Then at the first sign of trouble, run away with your ultimate and go farm woods till the gank stops. If their team doesn't gank you, simply plow into their base and take down their towers/rax. If they do gank you then they will take more strategy to backdoor.

2. Start with the outer towers. The most important aspect of backdooring is knowing where their team is. Summon your wolves and autoattack the tower, using your ultimate+shrunken head to get away if they try to stop you. If its just 1 or 2 heroes you can usually overpower them depending on how laning/jungling went.Micro your summons well, don't try to chase their heroes too far, focus on their base.

3. Once the outer towers are down, if you backdoored any of them their team will be on the watch for you. Wait for a team battle or a gank to start, the best time to backdoor is in the middle of a pitched fight when their team is distracted. Take out any base tower you can depending on their team's position, also be careful to not be seen as you sneak across the map. The most brutal backdoors initated by warbeast are the ones that are not expected. If they don't expect you to come, its an easy tower. If you start it in the middle of a team battle, teleporting back to stop you will jepordize their team mates. Another way to damage a building is just by sending your invisible summons at it when your farming. A pair of wolves at lvl 7 with the howl on can kill a rax within 30 seconds(time it takes for creeps to spawn and kill them) but they get trashed by towers so you will usually have to go in and get dirty, then finish off the raxes with summons while you safely farm. Happy Backdooring :)
PS: Carry homecoming stones to get away.


:ophe:OPHELIA:ophe:


Ophelia is by far a more complicated hero to play. Optimal items for backdooring include the following: Puzzblebox, Abyssal Skull, Whispering Helm. Ophelia tends to heavily scale down to near useless as the game progresses, depending on the other team's picks. If they have enough aoe nukes to flatten your creeps in a team battle, why even both? Better to help the team by backdooring!

1. Ophelia has a sick early game with controlled creeps. At the early stages of the game you should be ganking with whatever creeps you can get.

2. Start backdooring as soon as you know that your becoming useless, even before then. Don't underestimate how fast a mob of creeps, including a wolf aura and abyssal skull and minotaur aura, along with puzzlebox, will drop a building. On average a base tower will go down in 10-15 seconds flat from just your hero and minions. There is a disadvantage however. Ophelia sucks balls at getting away with all the creeps intact. Once their team comes to stop you, you can etiher cut and run or suicide backdoor. Try split your creeps when your getting away, also buy some observer wards to watch your escape routes/position of enemy heroes. Put wards on the high bluffs in the jungle near their base and it will guarantee a successful attack. As always, the best time to backdoor is in the middle of a team battle!


:poll:Pollywog Priest:poll:



Pollywog is a strong pick overall and after his recent buffs is seeing tons of action in the competitive scene.(unless he is banned, which is getting more popular) He is a strong mid solo, making your job that much easier if you have confidence in your play.

1. Solo mid, do your duty as a mid solo, ganking a lot and basically just owning face, pollywog is one of those heroes that are pure rape when roaming around with your ultimate up.

2. Go for puzzlebox, it's the item with the most synergy. Make sure you control runes with your bottle of course, you will be good for mana if you do so.

3. Once midgame begins and laning is over, it is time for you to prowl. Normally you would be attempting to gank the carry and get map control while pushing a bit with your team. Instead you will be ganking towers. Pollywog is notoriously hard to stop once the ult goes down, and if you dominated enough early, it will take 3 people to stop you since you can hex 1, summon ult and puzzlebox, tongue tied another, and kill them both. Make sure to keep wards up so you know where the enemy team is, and try to get a portal key and staff of the master/restoration stone (this item is mana intensive so beware).




HOW TO COUNTER BACKDOORING


Step 1: Buy observer wards. Place wards at base entrances, ledges overlooking key routes.
Step 2: Carry a homecoming stone at all times.
Step 3: Cut off the sneaky guy backdooring when your WARDS OF SIGHT see him.

[KorbenDallas]

Rabble rabble rabble!

[Vodka]

Aren't heroes with easy escape mechanisms and good DPS the way to go? I imagine Swiftblade, Scout, and Madman as really good options too. Also, I don't think you can beat a backdooring nymphora teleporting her entire team to your rax.

[Archatype]

Aren't heroes with easy escape mechanisms and good DPS the way to go? I imagine Swiftblade, Scout, and Madman as really good options too. Also, I don't think you can beat a backdooring nymphora teleporting her entire team to your rax.

I think Nymphora can teleport a max of 2 people other than herself. Scout and Night hound are good backdoors until your opponent is sensible enough to buy stealth reveals, but at any rate if you're successfully backdooring to begin with we can just assume you're not talking about sensible opponents.

[berk_]

Defiler ult.

GG.

[Uludayen]

Lol, toke jopic.

Nice guide, but I dunno.

[Tr1cKSt3R]

Scout's vanish also hits towers... pretty easy to take a tower down over time, just by hitting it when vanish is up and then runnin away.
And what about luna? she hits both rax at the same time.

[Rasta]

Agility Carry heroes can backdoor but are fragile and need to be ridiculously farmed to pull it off, by which point they should be helping their team. Warbeast can backdoor while he is farming, and Ophelia sucks mid-late game anyway because of creep scaling.

Nymphora teleporting your teamates can work, but if your team starts a team battle while you proceed to backdoor it has a better chance to succeed. Defiler can drop a tower with ult on, but defiler isnt MADE to backdoor. What I'm trying to say is that Warbeast and Ophelia are pretty much the best backdooring heroes. Any hero can backdoor with sufficient items, Warbeast has dps and his summons and his ultimate, so he doesn't need to be insanely farmed to pull it off, and ophelia can take down a tower solo with just creeps at lvl 5.

[lol2EZ]

I hope this is a joke topic, backdooring is frowned upon cause it takes no skill to do. Also your wards dont counter very well to stealth heroes, or against heroes that carry homecoming stones

[ToxicBlossom]

I hope this is a joke topic, backdooring is frowned upon cause it takes no skill to do. Also your wards dont counter very well to stealth heroes, or against heroes that carry homecoming stones

Takes no skill to counter, either.

[MechE_]

I hope this is a joke topic, backdooring is frowned upon cause it takes no skill to do. Also your wards dont counter very well to stealth heroes, or against heroes that carry homecoming stones

Backdooring is only frowned upon in low skill games... While nobody likes to lose to it, it's a very valid strategy and required for some teams to win. Also, if you're worried about stealth, buy both types of wards. At that point in the game, SOMEONE on your team should be able to afford wards. If not, you lost the game a long time ago.

[Rigeth1]

The only thing with backdooring that really bothers me, is that people seem to think that this is still Defence of the ancient for Warcraft 3.
Non of the rules from there apply here, it's a standalone game.
People scream "BACKDOOR NOOB I BAN U", when there are clearly no rules against it in Heroes of Newerth.
Backdooring is even permited (though very hated) in DotA, it only says you can't teleport in behind enemy lines.

It's an effective wartactic, it's sad that people start whining because of it.

[Ruddes]

Im sure there was a good reason that all the dota leagues and tournaments banned backdooring.....

[Ruddes]

Its not permitted son. This game is directly based of Dota. The creators of Hon were Dota fans....

[KARTlK]

Must try warbeast :D

[KARTlK]

It's permitted until it's not permitted.

[Radhruin]

Nymph + Defiler = awesome backdoor, because you can deflect a team battle to the point where the enemy decides to break off and go farm and then port directly to their base for some near-instant destruction. Shrunken head + TP scroll + Behemoth's Heart on defiler = near guaranteed getaway once the ult is over as well.

[documents]

I think there should be backdooring, but it should be a little different.

If there are no creeps of yours present either in your enemies base or within 1000 range or the building you are attacking, damage taken by buildings is reduced by 50-75%.

This way its harder to do, but still worth it if your opponents are playing sloppy.

[Habile]

What about Dark Lady's ult? How would that work in a backdoor?

[SimpleFear]

What about Dark Lady's ult? How would that work in a backdoor?

Extremely well... could take down a tower and run away without them even knowing.

[Jo]

go to the back, then door.

/thread

[Rasta]

Dark Lady's ln in combination with a strong damage output hero (Ophelia + Creep mob) could potentially a tower and rax. Nymphora's Teleport + Defiler I have yet to try, it looks good on paper.

As for invisible heroes, someone mentioned to buy both types of wards.

"ZOMG WARDS COST GOLD and I can't last hit QQ !!!!1!.. then wait 200 seconds.

"ZOMG I Die within 200 seconds and lost all gold!!!" .. then go to add/remove programs in control panel, and uninstall HoN.

By the way this is not a joke topic. Backdooring works and is assumed to be the correct decision in many situations.

[Elman1]

Takes no skill to counter, either.

Yeah, it only takes time, awareness and 600 gold every 12 minutes (Or 1800 if you need truesight wards too). With the potential for a nice 4vs5 rape if the enemy sends an illusion to "BD".

As opposed to running blindly into the base and autohitting the first building you see (You really need a guide for that)

[PoopsDeath]

I was Swiftblade on the legion side. We were going to gank a Hero up top that was in between our Level one Tower and their level on tower. I went up the middle and came out in between their level 1 and 2 tower. The hero had disappeared/escaped but I saw that their level one tower didn't have much health left so I destroyed it. Then I got accused of back dooring by a member on the other team and he tried to get me kicked.

What I did was back dooring?

[akitoes]

Yes.
But you shouldn't care

(So you really did it Rasta, I thought you were kidding :>)

[Weenoman]

Yeah, it only takes time, awareness and 600 gold every 12 minutes (Or 1800 if you need truesight wards too). With the potential for a nice 4vs5 rape if the enemy sends an illusion to "BD".

As opposed to running blindly into the base and autohitting the first building you see (You really need a guide for that)


The anti-back door proponents refuse to read the sensible counter-arguments. It's the only way they have a remote chance in the debate.

[dskzero]

Yeah, it only takes time, awareness and 600 gold every 12 minutes (Or 1800 if you need truesight wards too). With the potential for a nice 4vs5 rape if the enemy sends an illusion to "BD".

As opposed to running blindly into the base and autohitting the first building you see (You really need a guide for that)


Someone's bitter, someone did not read the guide, someone's still a virgin.

Try backdooring them back! And you'll see what it's like. If you do get screwed backdooring, somehow you'll understand why people backdoor.

[nilsen1]

Those who like backdooring are noobs or asians. And no I'm not being racist, I'm talking about their booring playstyle in DotA and that asian tournaments allow backdooring.

[Tronicoz]

ffs, backdooring sucks, and players like you

[Heliotic]

Protip: If being backdoored, Press the 'towers get huge armour' button.

[Rasta]

Everyone who is against backdooring is a scrub, plain and simple.

If you don't play to win your a scrub.

Backdooring is a valid strategy to win. So is ganking. So is last hitting. So is buying wards with item independent heroes like Thunderbringer and Demented shaman.

If backdooring is cheap, then so is buying wards and leaving your lane, and not autoattacking creeps is cheap too since you get more gold. Using spells to harass is cheap. Attacking other heroes is cheap. Not staying at fountain all game is cheap.

Everything is cheap when your a scrub because you don't play to win.

[Elman1]

Someone's bitter, someone did not read the guide, someone's still a virgin.

Try backdooring them back! And you'll see what it's like. If you do get screwed backdooring, somehow you'll understand why people backdoor.

I did, and all you said was "use wards and homecoming stone". I can do that, but it still takes more effort than BDing, seriously. Maybe you could make a proper anti-BD guide. That would be more helpful than "attack the tower with any minions you have and then run with whatever skills/items you have".

PS: Everyone who uses the word scrub is an elitist idiot.

[Weenoman]

PS: Everyone who uses the word scrub is an elitist idiot.

Read: Gamers.

[Rasta]

If you can't stop a backdoor with wards and homecoming stone you just suck balls, or the backdooring player is just way better then you in terms of experience. Maybe your whole team just sucks balls and can't stop 1 guy from backdooring, in which case, you guys won't win anyway.

The only thing you can do is suck it up, accept that your a scrub, and start over by learning to play.

If 'elitist' attutide is a problem towards new players, the 'elitist' has something to say from experience or some sort of advice, even if its negative. 99% of cases the newer player can't accept advice it from an 'elitist' just because they are not as polite as your daycare teacher.

[Elman1]

Read: Gamers.

Read: above post.

Btw, somebody should mention it (I hadn't noticed it and I played several games today): they added Glyph of fortification (ie: team skill, 4s invulnerability for buildings, 300s cooldown).

This is exactly what I'm talking about: making BDing fair, not removing it.

But you can go whine that S2 are "scrubs", if you want.

[Rasta]

The glyph has a 5 minute cooldown and lasts 4 seconds. Doesn't make a huge difference if you want to backdoor.

[Elman1]

The glyph has a 5 minute cooldown and lasts 4 seconds. Doesn't make a huge difference if you want to backdoor.

Which is why I'm just saying it's a step in the right direction.

And it lets you teleport back while not letting the building takes any damage, too (Which is a big deal considering that towers don't regen).

[Bali1]

lol@people thinking backdooring is not counterable

[Jo]

Everyone who is against backdooring is a scrub, plain and simple.

No U.

Bringing it to a level you might understand.

[Rakushun]

Teleporting back is not a counter to backdooring, sorry. You can see it a mile away and no one backdoors without an escape method.
Wards are not effective either because I highly doubt the whole team is going to teleport back and its not hard to escape one person who isnt arachna.

Also what if a whole team backdoors? Hello? There's a reason every league disallows backdooring. If you want more and better reasons, ask them.

[akitoes]

No U.

Bringing it to a level you might understand.
You're a scrub.
I have been on the recieving end of backdoor many times.

AND I DONT CARE, IF I/MY TEAM IS TOO DUMB TO COUNTER BACKDOOR THEN WE DESERVE TO LOSE.

above post : http://idec-arena.org/forums/index.php?topic=614.0

afaik idec is not bad i heard the best players in the world play there.

[RailStorm]

Backdooring is wack.

[Rasta]

Backdooring takes skill to pull it off. Countering it is easy. Therefore, in a skill based game, its appropriate to keep it.

[dreamex]

p. sure pollywog priest is made for backdooring xd.

[winterfresh1]

I had never played dota before and I unknowingly did backdoor considering it as a good strategy. One started flaming me for it and I asked him why is this not allowed? And he said "it's just the way it is" (I skipped the insults). Can anybody explain to me why should backdooring be banned? In many strategy games there are there are spy units that can damage enemy buildings unseen or something like that. That's a form of backdooring aswell lol. Should that be banned too?

[KnowingCrow1]

Its not permitted son. This game is directly based of Dota. The creators of Hon were Dota fans....

It's permitted. Last tournament specifically stated BDing was allowed.

[dreamex]

I had never played dota before and I unknowingly did backdoor considering it as a good strategy. One started flaming me for it and I asked him why is this not allowed? And he said "it's just the way it is" (I skipped the insults). Can anybody explain to me why should backdooring be banned? In many strategy games there are there are spy units that can damage enemy buildings unseen or something like that. That's a form of backdooring aswell lol. Should that be banned too?

People are just butthurt because they are too bad to counter.

[KnowingCrow1]

I had never played dota before and I unknowingly did backdoor considering it as a good strategy. One started flaming me for it and I asked him why is this not allowed? And he said "it's just the way it is" (I skipped the insults). Can anybody explain to me why should backdooring be banned? In many strategy games there are there are spy units that can damage enemy buildings unseen or something like that. That's a form of backdooring aswell lol. Should that be banned too?

Well, it's quite simple. Suppose you play a game, and you develope a strategy. It seems to work, you seem to play well, then someone goes and does something that shows a significant weakness in your plan. Do you -

a) Try to get the thing that shows your strategy as weak banned, so that your strategy isn't so weak?
b) Adjust your strategy?

So when someone BD's and destroys your base you -

a) Insult their mother, blame your loss on your enemy, stagnate.
b) Tell them good game, blame your loss on yourself, improve.

[akitoes]

Mentalities have evolved...
It's good for the game!

[Rasta]

I actually had a friend send me a link to a sweet article, this doesn't apply just for backdooring but for pretty much all video games/ sports. It's pretty long but it's interesting:
http://www.sirlin.net/articles/playing-to-win-part-1.html

[akitoes]

Yeah it's weird it looks like sirlin's guide hasnt made its way into dota/hon.

[RPZip]

Also what if a whole team backdoors? Hello? There's a reason every league disallows backdooring. If you want more and better reasons, ask them.

Not every league disallows backdooring.

There's been a bunch of threads in the general forum about this, try searching. It's not hard to counter backdooring, and if the game has progressed to the point where someone can sneak in and start wrecking buildings quickly enough that even teleporting isn't a terribly effective defense (60-70m) then the game should end regardless.

Glyph of Fortification helps prevent backdooring, so do wards and teleport scrolls. It's a valid strategy, and it's not that hard to counter.

[Lee_K]

pretty funny time when we were vs mega creeps and our carry was madman. he was decent farmed but got stomped down by disables so hard (no shrunken head lollers) so there magmus ran down to try and finish it, he died and dropped a raiper. so we tell madman to grab it and go backdoor. whilest they were trying to finish the game madman runs too there base and rapes there buildings whilst we defend the tree ^_^

[boxxy4ever]

IMHO hellbringer with restoration stone can back door far better all u do is summon two malphas' and if u want u can even tele back to your base and the malphas can easily kill final tower of lane and at least one barack

[Rasta]

If I had hellbringer I would rather use malphas in a team battle since it has a massive aoe stun. Also consider puzzlebox with hellbringer, malphas+puzzlebox aura is good, and in general the item owns on hellbringer. With double malphas and restoration and puzzlebox you can drop a rax fast.

[dmgtry]

I installed a mod so i can see where everyone is on the map at all times....

Many people find this to be "cheating" i just say they are scrubs! I mean is it cheating if you last hit a mob? is it cheating if you buy wards? is it cheating to buy teleport scrolls? NO!

Its apart of my game and everyone who doesnt do anything they can to win is a scrub. plain and simple

[PasteyMF]

Pfff, you're forgetting Wildsoul. HE'S A BEAST AT THE BACKDOOR.

[Discord]

I installed a mod so i can see where everyone is on the map at all times....

Many people find this to be "cheating" i just say they are scrubs! I mean is it cheating if you last hit a mob? is it cheating if you buy wards? is it cheating to buy teleport scrolls? NO!

Its apart of my game and everyone who doesnt do anything they can to win is a scrub. plain and simple

I don't think you have any clue how retarded you sound. Honestly, I don't.
Let me lay it out for you, and I'll be sure to refrain from using large words so that you understand.

There is no technical mechanic in the game to prevent people from backdooring. Buildings do not become "immune" if creeps are not close enough to it.

Fog of war exists at all times, unless you yourself are there, or you have purchased a means of seeing the map through an in-game mechanic.

You are talking about cheating.

Everyone else is talking about not playing by some silly code of honor that isn't even supported in-game. I.E: "not backdooring because it's cheap and takes no skill and only scrubs do it". People who make up their own rules, "honor system rules", and then get mad when other people don't follow them are asking for an extremely huge reality checks. Especially in competitive gaming.

I suggest reading - http://www.sirlin.net/ptw

And as for the guide... like, are you serious? Heh. Is this really even necessary?

[Rasta]

Yes I was serious about the guide. The point in the guide was to show that, yes all heroes can backdoor, but only with items. Those 2 heroes barely need anything to drop a tower/rax.

Also wildsoul is a decent bd hero but he doesnt have the damage to drop buildings fast enough. In dota syllabear did way more damage to structures, for some reason in HoN the bear does trash damage to base.

[dmgtry]

nothing in the game prevents me from using my mod....

it is frowned apon due to some silly code of honor.

people can see me when im next to them on the map.... just cuz i know where they are at all times just means im better at the game than you

[Rasta]

If your using a third party program to cheat or mh its totally different then backdooring. Currently S2 doesnt have a problem if someone kills your base, because thats the goal of the game.
If you use a third party program, which is illegal and will say in the license agreement, it is a totally different matter.

[sym]

Night Hound with Geometer's Bane is excellent at backdooring

[dmgtry]

dont see your point rasta....

I mean the game itself doesnt do anything to stop me. whats the problem?

isnt that same logic you use to defend backdooring?

I use mine to have an advantage on my opponents... its called strategy....

[Blitzl0l]

You're a moron. The rules say you can't hack. The rules don't say you can't backdoor. If you can read, you can see a difference.

[dmgtry]

oh rally blitz?

Cuz im pretty sure esl... you kno one of the biggest leages out there says this "1. You can not attack enemies building without creep support"

http://www.esl.eu/eu/dota/ems/season2/ru_qual/leagueinfo/

so dat makes us both cheaters ya ya?

[Sancus]

The idea of disallowing a strategy is completely nonsensical. If the game allows it, it's legitimate. If S2 doesn't want people to play that way, they are free to completely remove the ability to damage towers unless there are creeps nearby, or whatever.

Until then, the game is the game. You either play the game, or you don't. Not playing the game doesn't make you "better" or "right", it just makes you a scrub.


Cuz im pretty sure esl... you kno one of the biggest leages out there says this "1. You can not attack enemies building without creep support"

Leagues do not write the rules for the game. The developers do.

[Tempered]

oh rally blitz?

Cuz im pretty sure esl... you kno one of the biggest leages out there says this "1. You can not attack enemies building without creep support"

http://www.esl.eu/eu/dota/ems/season2/ru_qual/leagueinfo/

so dat makes us both cheaters ya ya?

DotA rules? Why are you linking me DotA rules? I'm playing HEROES OF NEWERTH not DEFENSE OF THE ANCIENTS.

Also i live in america so your russian rules dont apply to me.

Anyways i have the most out of the world idea to prevent backdooring. Now stick with me here... wait for it.... Homecoming stone! yes thats it. In a real competitive game not on easy modo you should easily have 1 slot open for a homecoming stone.

[dmgtry]

the game allows me to use my program. it doesnt ban me, it doesnt kick me. so whats the problem?

and im from california... how is that russian ****? and this is a game made off of dota. why wouldnt they try and follow dota's footsteps ?

And yes Leagues dont write the rules of the game, They write rules that make the game more fair in a competitive sense.

[LegoPirate]

the game allows me to use my program. it doesnt ban me, it doesnt kick me. so whats the problem?

and im from california... how is that russian ****? and this is a game made off of dota. why wouldnt they try and follow dota's footsteps ?

And yes Leagues dont write the rules of the game, They write rules that make the game more fair in a competitive sense.


+1 troll, nice work.

on topic: maphack doesnt work anymore, so stop being a little hoe.

if the devs wanted maphack gone, they could do it.

also, if you want to argue that dota doesnt allow it, then please, explain to me why icefrog hasnt put in a antibackdoor utility that works all the time. he could do it np, so why hasnt he?

[RogerDodger]

the game allows me to use my program. it doesnt ban me, it doesnt kick me. so whats the problem?

and im from california... how is that russian ****? and this is a game made off of dota. why wouldnt they try and follow dota's footsteps ?

And yes Leagues dont write the rules of the game, They write rules that make the game more fair in a competitive sense.
You have an unfair advantage before the game starts. Ill quote "As are techniques that can only be performed on, say, the player-1 side of the game. Tricks in fighting games that are side-dependent (that is, they can only be performed by the 2nd player or only by the first player)"

Also, it was stated that it is bad if it "Degenerates or removes depth from the game, or is a strategy with no equivalent counter"

Please tell me what equivalent counter exists to a maphack? You require expending no additional resources to use it, and the only match it would be to have wards at every point of the map - which is unplausable, and impossible.

[LegoPirate]

You have an unfair advantage before the game starts. Ill quote "As are techniques that can only be performed on, say, the player-1 side of the game. Tricks in fighting games that are side-dependent (that is, they can only be performed by the 2nd player or only by the first player)"

Also, it was stated that it is bad if it "Degenerates or removes depth from the game, or is a strategy with no equivalent counter"

Please tell me what equivalent counter exists to a maphack? You require expending no additional resources to use it, and the only match it would be to have wards at every point of the map - which is unplausable, and impossible.

maphack is not possible in this game. ill explain why

because the game is not a p2p (peer to peer) system like wc3, that means the host server (the ones that s2 provides) sends you all the information about the game. they recently installed an antimaphack device, that when an enemy hero doesnt appear on your screen, he is moved to somewhere on the bottomleft corner (not exactly sure where)

this is why things like pudge hook glitch out from fog.

if hes telling you he maphacks, hes a fail troll.

[RogerDodger]

I understand that it is not possible, but I am explaining that in the hypothetical situation that you could maphack, that it would be illegal, wheras backdooring isn't.

[LegoPirate]

I understand that it is not possible, but I am explaining that in the hypothetical situation that you could maphack, that it would be illegal, wheras backdooring isn't.

obviously.

basically its like this.

backdoor is an underhanded strategy (it is, dont lie), but its within the realms of the game.

maphack is equivalent to me hacking the game, and making a giant nuke that does 9999999999999 dmg appear over the enemy well every 2 seconds (epic if i could do that).

bd is a punch to the nuts, while maphack is a gunshot to the head.

[dmgtry]

obviously.

basically its like this.

backdoor is an underhanded strategy (it is, dont lie), but its within the realms of the game.

maphack is equivalent to me hacking the game, and making a giant nuke that does 9999999999999 dmg appear over the enemy well every 2 seconds (epic if i could do that).

bd is a punch to the nuts, while maphack is a gunshot to the head.

you made my point.

ty

[Tempered]

That doesnt stop people from kicking you in the nuts. and it doesnt stop you from wearing a cup.

[RogerDodger]

you made my point.

ty
Have you ever kicked someone in the nuts?

Have you ever shot someone in the head?

[Clyne]

what is the best backdooring items? i just love the feeling when ppl yell at me when I am trying to go for some backdooring... I hard to find a better laugh when ppl yell STOP BACKDOORING YOU NOOB !THATS ILLEGAL PRINT SCREEEN BAN!!!

ahaha

I tend to backdoor with scout, and he is pretty easy to farm gold with so I often build a helm of blacklegion. Then I tank the tower and repeatedly use cloak to gain flurry buff.

[Acinod]

Genocide their team. Ulti with Warbeast. Backdoor base. GG.

[CHR0N0S]

Its not permitted son. This game is directly based of Dota. The creators of Hon were Dota fans....

So what?
Because fans made it doesn't mean that all the rules are ported. Anyway, theres no statement that backdooring is not permitted it's not a law it's not written anywhere. If BD can't be done the game should take care of that. Even the same S2 games people said:

"If you can't defend your base you deserve to lose" And even if S2 games don't say it. Its true.

BD is not accepted by the opposite team, but that doesn't mean you can't do it.

[gral]

i love how everyone is saying that backdooring was banned in dota when actually very few leages banned it.

[Niophebus]

Omg, how many crying noobs are there? loool!!!
Backdooring is not a strategy, period. It's only a way that noob childs use to prevent a deserved lost...
Backdooring isn't allowed in any (ok, read it twice please... ANY) league, because it makes the game umbalanced; some heroes have a great advantage to backdooring, because of their particular escape abilities. So it's not permitted.
In addition this "strategy" (lol, sorry but i can't stop to laugh...) makes the match very boring... only a rush to destroy enemy towers without any tactic. In this sense it's comparable to play in a fps match where there are only campers...

And yes, backdooring can prevented succesfully, because, who uses it, is often a poor noob outleveled... :D
After 2 or 3 deaths, if he persists or an other teammate starts, i start to backdooring too, and i assure games end very very fast...
In Hon, sometimes i played against backdoorers and i've always won.

Go buy skill and fair play! :rolleyes:

[Scarm1]

I'm not sure if you realize this but by that same logic auto-attacking should be banned because some heroes have skills that make them better at it. Certain heroes having an advantage has little to do with it ... in this game. From what I've heard, the main outcry over this was some dota hero who could tp and cut down towers like they were dandelions or some such. Further, I've heard that S2 is fine with backdooring so long as he isn't in the game.

At most, I'd call it unsporting to BD ... but honestly, the only times I ever really see it are when a team is up against the ropes. Times like that I really don't have much of a problem with it, keeps things from getting boring if my team is rolling them, and gives us a chance if my team is getting pounded. But then, I generally prefer a well matched battle to complete domination.

And if we're going to make a big deal out of attacking towers with no creeps around, why not keep going? No killing heroes without creeps around. Maybe enforce an appointment system where you must notify your target within 20 seconds of ganking them. Perhaps all heroes must meet to fight in the middle in 2 neat, orderly lines and don't attack until the signal is given by a neutral 3rd party ... well, ok, that's actually kinda cool when you picture Kongor in a ref outfit making the opposing teams touch gloves or whatever.

... think about it. His tailor would make a fortune.

[ForumTroll]

One time my team got backdoored by a polywog priest with assassins shroud, ran up to a tower threw down his ulti on it and started attacking.

When we came to kill him, he would stealth and run away, if we chased him his wards were still pounding on the tower, but if we killed the wards instead he would get away safely... very frustrating.

[Spamela]

Backdooring is fun.

[Charade]

I think there should be backdooring, but it should be a little different.

If there are no creeps of yours present either in your enemies base or within 1000 range or the building you are attacking, damage taken by buildings is reduced by 50-75%.

This way its harder to do, but still worth it if your opponents are playing sloppy.

Never thought of this. Good idea....this would be awesome.

srsly you should PM S2

[ImpBloody]

I believe this issue of backdooring is debatable through several discussions; however, there is no written rule against is, and the developers have clearly not made attempts to really counter it otherwise people would not try it. People who cry about backdooring probably should win, but just because you should win, doesnt mean you have the right to win. Backdooring is a strategy just like pushing a lane, or scouting forests to see if they are creeping, or killing kongor. The point is, you don't get upset when they push your lane through your base (if you do then you should probably uninstall this game, as it is probably not meant for you to play because this happens every game). Simply man up and either buy homecoming stones, or finish the game quicker before they have the opportunity to kill your base before your entire team can't finish their base.

[VectorM]

Im sure there was a good reason that all the dota leagues and tournaments banned backdooring.....

Ok then, let's ban more than 1 totem of kuldra in a team :rolleyes:


Omg, how many crying noobs are there? loool!!!
Backdooring is not a strategy, period. It's only a way that noob childs use to prevent a deserved lost...
Go buy skill and fair play! :rolleyes:

ANYONE, I say ANYONE who refuses to backdoor because it's not "fair play", when it's clearly allowed in HoN is a noob himself.



And yes, backdooring can prevented succesfully, because, who uses it, is often a poor noob outleveled... :D
After 2 or 3 deaths, if he persists or an other teammate starts, i start to backdooring too, and i assure games end very very fast...


Why are you whining against backdooring then, if it's so easy for you to counter it?

[dumblydore]

Just in case you are playing EM, here is a fun fact:

With Lvl 3 ult, defiler can take down a tower AND both raxes, and still have 10-20 seconds of ult left.

Do this during a team battle, and just sneak off after you're done...3 of these would already give you supercreeps, but with 1-2 the enemy team is forced to defend already

[Niophebus]

Why are you whining against backdooring then, if it's so easy for you to counter it?
Because it's a boring winning condition; because i place myself on the same level of these noobs. But this is the only way to demonstrate how stupid childs they are...
Backdooring is banned in ALL leagues, it's a fact. Period. Your arguments are useless. Stop crying about it...

And about written rules: in many nations, raping is a crime; but in few others not. So, are you thinkng that raping is not a crime because in these nations it's permitted?
Some rules are not necessarily written; they come from wisdon.
If you undertand it, ok; otherwise, i advise you to change game...

I repeat it: go buy skill and stop whining.

[Scarm1]

And about written rules: in many nations, raping is a crime; but in few others not. So, are you thinkng that raping is not a crime because in these nations it's permitted?


Actually, that would mean it's not a crime in those countries. Crimes are breaches of law. If there is no law, then there is no crime. It's kinda how it works.

So if rape is illegal in one country, let's call it DotA, then raping someone would be a crime there. If it's not illegal in another country, say a fictional land called HoN, then rape wouldn't be a crime there. Maybe with the right kind of political pressure someone might be extradited from HoN to DotA to stand trial, but it would probably depend on the relations between the countries.

This is purely a hypothetical of course.

[Spoutnik16]

And why the developpers say nothing? This long discussion can be closed in one post from a developper saying "we think it is a strat", or "we gonna make it impossible in few patchs".

[YummyCheese]

I think the developers would say something along the lines of: 'We think it should be a viable strat, but not so viable that it is a required strategy to win the game.'

Why remove depth from the game? It's just stupid. It is VERY counterable, and it's not ruining games.

[PhillipJokar]

I'm curious as to why nobody has said anything about also using barbed armor when backdooring?

It works on towers, and can help a lot if the char you're using is a bit weaker than you'd prefer them to be.

[VectorM]

I installed a mod so i can see where everyone is on the map at all times....

Many people find this to be "cheating" i just say they are scrubs! I mean is it cheating if you last hit a mob? is it cheating if you buy wards? is it cheating to buy teleport scrolls? NO!

Its apart of my game and everyone who doesnt do anything they can to win is a scrub. plain and simple

You have to TRY to be that stupid and retarded.


Because it's a boring winning condition; because i place myself on the same level of these noobs. But this is the only way to demonstrate how stupid childs they are...
Backdooring is banned in ALL leagues, it's a fact. Period. Your arguments are useless. Stop crying about it...

And about written rules: in many nations, raping is a crime; but in few others not. So, are you thinkng that raping is not a crime because in these nations it's permitted?


GJ comparing real life laws to rules in VIDEO GAMES. You are a moron.

If you had ANY brain at all, you would compare it to sports - do you see football players not doing certain legal strategies, because they are "boring" or "cheap"? Scrub.

Oh and Niophebus has a negative K: D ratio, with 1396 PSR, WHAT A SURPRISE!

[VectorM]

bump.

[Democatai]

when games start to go around 60min + me & my friends don´t realy mind ppl backdooring.

it adds a fun element to suddenly scream out "FCK !! our BASE ! Get hiiiiim ?!?! " =)

[TheYid]

from what i understand the argument about backdooring goes like this:
Whats HoN?
A neat game based off Dota but is in fact not Dota.
Oh yeh, and what does that involve?
oh it involves ur team fighting another team by trying to kill them when they are alone with several of ur friends, and then attacking and destroying their base.
oh cool sounds fun.
yeh but u have to remember the main rule of the game, u arent allowed to attack their base unless your creeps are attacking the base.
oh how come?
not entirely sure, i think its cos its harder to take down their base if ur creeps arent tanking it.
oh, sounds fair enough.

oh and ppl whinge when u rape them, especially if they were winning up till then and were stroking their epeen

[MileyCyrusss]

And about written rules: in many nations, raping is a crime; but in few others not. So, are you thinkng that raping is not a crime because in these nations it's permitted?
Some rules are not necessarily written; they come from wisdon.
If you undertand it, ok; otherwise, i advise you to change game....


I'm a frequent reader of Digg, Reddit, and Fark. I've been to 4chan. I've read political forums on the internet, religious and political arguments. I've played counter strike, and of course know the Dota and HoN communities. And I've seen youtube comments. BUT,

The absurdity of this statement tops even the zenith of those stupidities .

[dreamex]

Any team that loses to backdoor lost the game for themselves by a.) not finishing when given the opportunity or b.) being so horrible that they can't prevent backdoor.

[soogan]

If it were breaking rules, it would be written into the game mechanic. Otherwise learn to counter, and quit whining. (insert, don't play PUGs statement here, etc...)

[protoculture]

I've found in the few games I've attempted to bd it hasn't exactly gone my way. It's kind of a double edged sword since a failed bd will not only cost you whatever it is you should have been defending/pushing in the first place, but it also incites the other team to use the same move on you (sometimes they turn out to be better at it).

I suppose all I'm saying is that I don't get too annoyed by it when it happens to me since it's a big gamble on the other teams part which can be countered with minimal effort and I'm not above using it to win against an annoying team.

[Novastorm]

Strongest back door is easily Wild Soul...
Bear with demolish can take out towers in 10 seconds with proper items

[tankcat]

ok so heres the thing your defending your base as there whole team charges up your mid lane and gets wiped out apparently it is then unfair to run down the lane and rax there mid for foolishly charging ur base instead u must slowly plod down the lane for the next minute and a bit allowing the enemy heroes to either buy back or just respawn and hold your slow push off frankly i dont c how running striaght down a lane is backdooring just cause you ignore there troops its not even a surprise......

[NMA1]

Really when it all comes down to the table,
Backdooring is easy with certain heroes, easy with farmed carries, hard to counter cause money is being spent on wards (which should have been done already <.<) and a hero can escape and do it again.

Thats their point, it also makes sense. Backdooring IS easy when u know what your doing, and if your not an idiot its a nice easy cheap win for your team.

SO WHAT, so waht if its easy, yes its underhanded maby even a lowblow, but its like a soccer player stealing the ball from the enemy goalie while hes lining up a shot and scoring a goal, its low and underhanded but its allowed. I dont see people qqing over that (even though you will see how the goalie goes "aw, i should have see that coming")

In short, every one thats against backdooring is right, its easy and sucks to go against, but the counter point is "so what, its allowed go suck a thumb while i rape your base"

[Disease1]

Scout is BD king. Simple steps:
1. KS your teammates untill you get good items.
2. Backdoor
3.????
4. PROFIT!

[Birdulon]

SO WHAT, so waht if its easy, yes its underhanded maby even a lowblow, but its like a soccer player stealing the ball from the enemy goalie while hes lining up a shot and scoring a goal, its low and underhanded but its allowed. I dont see people qqing over that (even though you will see how the goalie goes "aw, i should have see that coming")
On that note, Backdooring is almost identical to playing offside in soccer. In fact, the only difference is that you're not allowed to go offside.

[zaThunder]

Its not permitted son. This game is directly based of Dota. The creators of Hon were Dota fans....

It is permitted and it is a valid strategy. Only whiners and cry babies moan about it because they are too slack to stop BD'ing. The HoN developement teams have ensured that the items to stop BD'ing are easily affordable to anyone.

Also, the development teams in HoN might be fans of Dota but the game has many differences and IT IS NOT DOTA!!!! GET DOTA OUT OF YOUR HEAD!!! Leave Dota chat for the dota forums.

Backdooring is legal....

...and while we are at it Ruddes, stop being a cheap skate and contribute some money to the HoN team and their amazing project. Same goes to all you freeloader players who are to cheap to pay $30 for a brilliant game that provides you with an abundance of intelligent entertainment. Vomit!

[King_Fear]

There are no rules against backdooring. End of discussion. Stop trolling/feeding trolls, etc.

[dreamex]

On that note, Backdooring is almost identical to playing offside in soccer. In fact, the only difference is that you're not allowed to go offside.

Except in Soccer you can't activate an ability to seal your goal completely nor can you immediately teleport back to defend.

[Retarderous]

I say back dooring is a legit an effective strategy and shouldnt be fround upon.

[Funshine]

http://img61.imageshack.us/img61/5015/1174531518843xf7os3.jpg

[Xenolicious]

Nice cat

[nakke]

On that note, Backdooring is almost identical to playing offside in soccer. In fact, the only difference is that you're not allowed to go offside. but ronaldo cannot tp to defence :(


dreamex beat me to it

[Shady5]

There is a major difference between DotA and HoN with the backdoor feature : Building Regeneration. In DotA, someone backdoor your tower, you TP, he is scared and the tower will be back to it normal health. But in HoN, he BD, you TP, he got 2-3 seconds to run back and you still cannot do ****. He will just come back to finish the job 20 sec later. This feature (55hp/sec to tower when no creeps nearby) should be added.

I played a game versus a Sand Wraith where we tried to counterpush our middle lane because it was raxed, and we were dominating them after turtling for a while. But thw SW just backdoored with geometer bane and as soon as we TPed, he hid in the wood next to the tower. There were no way we could have stop him, and we lost the game cause of this...

Backdoor should be revised

[nightowl2]

There is a major difference between DotA and HoN with the backdoor feature : Building Regeneration. In DotA, someone backdoor your tower, you TP, he is scared and the tower will be back to it normal health. But in HoN, he BD, you TP, he got 2-3 seconds to run back and you still cannot do ****. He will just come back to finish the job 20 sec later. This feature (55hp/sec to tower when no creeps nearby) should be added.


This. I think backdooring should be allowed, since as has been stated multiple times it is easy to counter. However, if you by countering achieve nothing except forcing someone to leave for a while just to come back and finish the job, it seems useless. They should add the tower DotA anti-BD tower regen to HoN. In fact, it was when IF implemented this function that he removed the "cannot TP to base" limitation, because with the regen system in place it wasn't necessary.

[Tanubis]

Strongest back door is easily Wild Soul...
Bear with demolish can take out towers in 10 seconds with proper items

What's really funny is handing ALL your items to your bear except a hatchet and a few tangos, and juking yourself into their forest nice and good just outside their base. Let the bear go tank, and you're not readily visible at all when they come back. Keep a homecoming on you just in case.

Of course, easily counterable if they've warded the enterances to top/bottom, but that's kinda the point.

[Tanubis]

There is a major difference between DotA and HoN with the backdoor feature : Building Regeneration. In DotA, someone backdoor your tower, you TP, he is scared and the tower will be back to it normal health. But in HoN, he BD, you TP, he got 2-3 seconds to run back and you still cannot do ****. He will just come back to finish the job 20 sec later. This feature (55hp/sec to tower when no creeps nearby) should be added.

I played a game versus a Sand Wraith where we tried to counterpush our middle lane because it was raxed, and we were dominating them after turtling for a while. But thw SW just backdoored with geometer bane and as soon as we TPed, he hid in the wood next to the tower. There were no way we could have stop him, and we lost the game cause of this...

Backdoor should be revised

An endgame sand wraith carries teams one way or the other. It's a great strategy for him if he's got those items, because he can still participate in team battles by jumping in instantly with his ulti.

Of course, if you actually played competitively you'd know that letting sand wraith get those items SHOULD mean you lose, and you'd have staged some early / midgame ganks on him to stop him farming the gold.

[Aeonstorm]

An endgame sand wraith carries teams one way or the other. It's a great strategy for him if he's got those items, because he can still participate in team battles by jumping in instantly with his ulti.

Of course, if you actually played competitively you'd know that letting sand wraith get those items SHOULD mean you lose, and you'd have staged some early / midgame ganks on him to stop him farming the gold.

Yup, it is so easy to screw over sand wraith early-mid game its not funny.

[Rasta]

Okay I just successfully pulled off a backdoor in an inhouse game, and proved that it IS a competitive strategy, heres what happened.

a.) Warbeast keeps sending random wolves to whittle the base tower down to 200 hp.
b.) Warbeast charges in, kills tower, ults and runs, then bkb+tp out (the Draft Pool didnt have succubus or Panda)
c.) Warbeast then ingores their base and helps his team.
d.) Rax dies from random wolves that snuck in and killed it.

[arieLOL]

pollywog + refresher = lol

[PhillipJokar]

Level'd Wildsoul = Can go around and solo every single tower the enemy has as long as the rest of their team (at least any of them with slows/stuns/holds) are kept busy.

Towers melt to a lvl3/4 booboo and a bear form'd wildsoul with 3.5kHP and Plenty of AGI+speed.

[man_guy]

I think Nymphora can teleport a max of 2 people other than herself.3 with SOTM.

[Rasta]

Sigh, we just had a game where we lost because our warbeast refused to backdoor their base. Hopefully someday people will realize backdoor is part of the game, just as is ganking and last hitting.

[Dataslycer]

There is one reason why I refuse to backdoor, so the enemy doesn't due to this "rule" when it is to their best interest to backdoor. However when they do, I go aww nuts we lost an advantage, and have to prepare. I however am not so restrictive in tactics.

Btw in your guide, you should list particular heroes that are effective in countering backdoors and the downside of backdooring like enemy can potentially kill your team easier if it's 4 v 5.

[Danvari]

Nice guide.

[Unethikal]

Didn't S2 say that if backdooring becomes prevalent they will put counter-measures to prevent it?

[Dentata]

Back when I played 2v2s all the time, it was ridiculously annoying to have a scout run up to a tower, whack whack whack whack and run. Even if we had wards, he had enough movespeed and attack speed to get off the 4 flurry hits and get away easily by the time I or my teammate tp'd in.

And yet in 5v5, its not quite so bad anymore.

A single person can tp in and kinda just scare them off, or at least keep them from damaging the buildings too much. If our guy got overpowered instantly, we were probably screwed to begin with (or someone more suited to defending should have gone).

But anyways, I haven't even seen backdoors that often in 5v5 because most of the time we have someone in base. maybe they just respawned, maybe picking up an item, or healing up. In late game, if we're all out, we're probably doing a full team push, and if the remaining 4 of them hold up well against the five of us pushing full might, again, we were probably screwed anyways.

[crappular]

In every backdoor thread I see, I am going to quote from Sirlin's 'Playing to Win' article.

"You're not going to see a classic scrub throw his opponent 5 times in a row. But why not? What if doing so is strategically the sequence of moves that optimize his chances of winning? Here we've encountered our first clash: the scrub is only willing to play to win within his own made-up mental set of rules. These rules can be staggeringly arbitrary. If you beat a scrub by throwing projectile attacks at him, keeping your distance and preventing him from getting near you...that's cheap. If you throw him repeatedly, that's cheap, too. We've covered that one. If you sit in block for 50 seconds doing no moves, that's cheap. Nearly anything you do that ends up making you win is a prime candidate for being called cheap."

[Dataslycer]

Sirlin ftw.

[GentleGroove]

So you leave your teammates battle 4 vs 5 so that you can backdoor?

[Jimb0v]

In every backdoor thread I see, I am going to quote from Sirlin's 'Playing to Win' article.

"You're not going to see a classic scrub throw his opponent 5 times in a row. But why not? What if doing so is strategically the sequence of moves that optimize his chances of winning? Here we've encountered our first clash: the scrub is only willing to play to win within his own made-up mental set of rules. These rules can be staggeringly arbitrary. If you beat a scrub by throwing projectile attacks at him, keeping your distance and preventing him from getting near you...that's cheap. If you throw him repeatedly, that's cheap, too. We've covered that one. If you sit in block for 50 seconds doing no moves, that's cheap. Nearly anything you do that ends up making you win is a prime candidate for being called cheap."

Yeah, this is truth.

[Killstealing]

I hope this is a joke topic, backdooring is frowned upon cause it takes no skill to do. Also your wards dont counter very well to stealth heroes, or against heroes that carry homecoming stones
lol? Btw, backdooring isn't what you think it is, backdooring is teleporting into the enemy base (in dota with furion - is illegal, in HoN not even possible) w/o any creeps present. Simply attacking a tower when the creepwave is further in the lane is not backdooring. Also for the 'it takes no skill to do', lawl. It takes as much skill to backdoor as it takes to spam spells in a teamfight. Should that be illegal as well? Maybe play normal mode, it has stronger towers.

[Rilian]

*sigh* Noobs are noobs.
In DotA and HoN, there is only a single hero that can backdoor. That was the Prophet as he could teleport into the enemy base, summon trees and wreck up the place.

THIS IS NOT PRESENT IN HEROES OF NEWERTH, and I believe that IceFrog took care of it in Defence of the Ancients.

Now, on the topic of taking towers when no creeps are present; this is a totally legal strategy, that S2 has even said they encourage. It's easily countered by a Homecoming Stone, and if they keep running away shrouded when you teleport in, but some wards of true sight.

Now, on actual topic.

Wildsoul with a Mock of Brilliance, Daemonic Platemail and four Gloves of the Swift on Beardulon. Every tower will fall in under ten seconds.
Epic fun!

[SykoAzn]

Wait for a team battle or a gank to start, the best time to backdoor is in the middle of a pitched fight when their team is distracted.





Or maybe you could just like, help and team fight?

[Puzzles1]

Or maybe you could just like, help and team fight?

For a hero like Warbeast in a non-critical teamfight (ie a teamfight for which losing the teamfight will not cost either team a rax), taking an enemy rax is much better than helping the team.

[laserblade]

Normally i ward the area before i backdoor in case of ambush.

[GrizmoBlust]

This thread is fail. The only backdoor hero is nymp.

[Ernie888]

back dooring is permitted in GR tournies afaik? im sure i saw a replay where 5 were asking if backdoor was legit and the GR guy said yes if you do it nicely or something.

[Killstealing]

This thread is fail. The only backdoor hero is nymp.
tp doesnt work less than 2500 units away from pool SORRY

[snoopypup248]

What about Dark Lady's ult? How would that work in a backdoor?

Game change worthy.

[Chaos_Theory]

theres a reason dota banned backdooring, and hon needs to follow suit. it takes no strategy to backdoor, its really pathetic that anyone would resort to it, and if you cannot fight back the team; why are you allowing for bads to come back and win when they have no right to be in the game anymore. its a matter of fairness, nobody likes the backdoor. so why is it still allowed? dont even try to say its a legitimate strategy, because its not. there is no strategy to running in and killing towers while the team is busy, when there isnt a single creep present. creeps there, good for you, if not get the hell away and help your team. all backdooring does is allow for the feeble to think they can actually play this game, and is in general a douchebag move. we all know this to be true. so plz hurry up and ban it.

[Bonshiki]

Deleted.

[Bonshiki]

theres a reason dota banned backdooring, and hon needs to follow suit. it takes no strategy to backdoor, its really pathetic that anyone would resort to it, and if you cannot fight back the team; why are you allowing for bads to come back and win when they have no right to be in the game anymore. its a matter of fairness, nobody likes the backdoor. so why is it still allowed? dont even try to say its a legitimate strategy, because its not. there is no strategy to running in and killing towers while the team is busy, when there isnt a single creep present. creeps there, good for you, if not get the hell away and help your team. all backdooring does is allow for the feeble to think they can actually play this game, and is in general a douchebag move. we all know this to be true. so plz hurry up and ban it.

It also takes no skill to counter it, buy a TP and teleport to your base when they attempt to back door, pretty simple. Stop crying.

[iPhan]

LMAO, if player's don't get penalized in game for backdooring, why get butthurt? at the end of the day it's just a game. you can't take player's rights to how they want to win, only the creators of HoN, not some random butthurt kid behind a computer screen.

[Grokken]

http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/intermediates-guide.html

http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/what-should-be-banned.html

/thread

[Haor]

8 page and nobody make a list about Pro & Con about backdoor...

Backdoor is a strategy, u cant just send any hero to bd at any time
but it take no skills to counter it... well unless the enemy got BlackSmith lol

[Killstealing]

theres a reason dota banned backdooring, and hon needs to follow suit. it takes no strategy to backdoor, its really pathetic that anyone would resort to it, and if you cannot fight back the team; why are you allowing for bads to come back and win when they have no right to be in the game anymore. its a matter of fairness, nobody likes the backdoor. so why is it still allowed? dont even try to say its a legitimate strategy, because its not. there is no strategy to running in and killing towers while the team is busy, when there isnt a single creep present. creeps there, good for you, if not get the hell away and help your team. all backdooring does is allow for the feeble to think they can actually play this game, and is in general a douchebag move. we all know this to be true. so plz hurry up and ban it.
you giant ****tard. DotA banned backdooring, yes. You know what they banned? They banned furion porting in the base, summoning trees and killing rax, that is backdooring, not just attacking a tower with creep wave not present. Srsly, cry some more, what you call backdooring isn't even backdooring.

[Grokken]

DotA didn't ban anything.

Yes, certain leagues and tournament banned backdooring. but DotA has no official rules.

My opinion:

Backdooring should not be banned because:

1. It is intended to be in the game, it's not a bug.
2. It is available to both Hellbourne and Legion, gives no advantage to either side
3. It does not break the game or hinder gameplay in any way.
4. It is not imbalanced or overpowered in any way. Even in high level tournaments where it is allowed there is almost nobody doing it. And it's not because they think it is cheap, lame or unfair. It's because it is easily countered, and simply doesn't work against good opponents.

Instead of banning backdooring you should learn how to counter it. You should adapt your strategy to the game, not the other way around.

[JellySmelly]

Magebane , Warbeast

[swedel]

theres a reason dota banned backdooring, and hon needs to follow suit. it takes no strategy to backdoor, its really pathetic that anyone would resort to it, and if you cannot fight back the team; why are you allowing for bads to come back and win when they have no right to be in the game anymore. its a matter of fairness, nobody likes the backdoor. so why is it still allowed? dont even try to say its a legitimate strategy, because its not. there is no strategy to running in and killing towers while the team is busy, when there isnt a single creep present. creeps there, good for you, if not get the hell away and help your team. all backdooring does is allow for the feeble to think they can actually play this game, and is in general a douchebag move. we all know this to be true. so plz hurry up and ban it.

This is one of the dumbest and whiniest posts I have read on theses forums - for your own sake I hope you are trolling.


creeps there, good for you, if not get the hell away and help your team

Backdooring = Skipping towers. It has nothing to do with creeps and it has nothing to do with "fighting back the team". Saying that you're only allowed to attack towers when creeps are nearby is simply retarded.


there is no strategy to running in and killing towers while the team is busy

LAWL W8 PLS DONT ATTACK BASE WHILE WE ARE BUSY

It's EXTREMELY easy to counter:
-Use homecoming stones
-Save tower defense for any BD attempt
-Warbeast/Ophelia free farming jungle? Gank jungle. Ward jungle. Win the 4v5 situation.
-Stop playing EM, backdooring is not an issue in normal mode.

[Killstealing]

This is one of the dumbest and whiniest posts I have read on theses forums - for your own sake I hope you are trolling.



Backdooring = Skipping towers. It has nothing to do with creeps and it has nothing to do with "fighting back the team". Saying that you're only allowed to attack towers when creeps are nearby is simply retarded.



LAWL W8 PLS DONT ATTACK BASE WHILE WE ARE BUSY

It's EXTREMELY easy to counter:
-Use homecoming stones
-Save tower defense for any BD attempt
-Warbeast/Ophelia free farming jungle? Gank jungle. Ward jungle. Win the 4v5 situation.
-Stop playing EM, backdooring is not an issue in normal mode.
yes yes yes
this exactly. Backdooring != running ahead of creeps. Also hurr lets not backdoor thus wasting potential of certain heroes to make mr I play magebane and farm all gaem long happy

[Debbye]

Use the damn warbeast with puzzlebox!
Ultimate and run away if they came for you!
I've won so many 4vs5 , 3vs5 games using this tactics. They were raging so much!

[Quickfix]

Backdooring is a legitimate tactic. It's effective but at the same time, easily counterable. The only situation in which case a backdoor attempt might be difficult to counter is when Nymphora drags 2 others with her over. Then it's simply not just one or two people using homecoming stones to defend.

But seriously, only EM players really complain about backdooring because the towers are cheese. Backdooring in NM is essentially only when the game is really over unless heroes like Ophelia are in the game.

Besides, lanes follow sequential order. You gotta take down the furthest towers from the throne to be able to proceed. That's more than fair enough.

[Skull4er]

Use the damn warbeast with puzzlebox!
Ultimate and run away if they came for you!
I've won so many 4vs5 , 3vs5 games using this tactics. They were raging so much!
just <3 warbeast with puzzlebox.

skeletons rape people in 3 seconds, and warbeast rapes towers in 3 seconds!
thats the way they like it.

[Donn]

theres a reason dota banned backdooring, and hon needs to follow suit. it takes no strategy to backdoor, its really pathetic that anyone would resort to it, and if you cannot fight back the team; why are you allowing for bads to come back and win when they have no right to be in the game anymore. its a matter of fairness, nobody likes the backdoor. so why is it still allowed? dont even try to say its a legitimate strategy, because its not. there is no strategy to running in and killing towers while the team is busy, when there isnt a single creep present. creeps there, good for you, if not get the hell away and help your team. all backdooring does is allow for the feeble to think they can actually play this game, and is in general a douchebag move. we all know this to be true. so plz hurry up and ban it.

u mad.


OT: only backdoor when you know the other team is currently engaged in something (fighting kongor) and/or when you know less than two of their heroes carry TP stones

[ForumTroll]

Pollywog + assassin's shroud + staff of the master


run to tower, cast ulti on top of it and auto attack
stealth and run

repeat

[BLINDREAPE2]

I heard that in Starcraft 2 they are making a new rule, you aren't allowed to attack the opponents base within the first 10 minutes. Also, you aren't allowed to attack the opponents base unless they have their troops there ready to defend.

[Rilian]

Pollywog + assassin's shroud + staff of the master


run to tower, cast ulti on top of it and auto attack
stealth and run

repeat

Wards of True Sight/Dust/Bound Eye

[InBe4The404]

ha i wish this game had furion, he was THE BEST hero for raging pubs ever. just wait for a big team fight in a close game, port to base with your insane farm + tree tanks, smash a rax. instant rage. watch as they they call you noob as your team wins, lawl.

the best part about backdooring is that it is the best counter to the lamest tactic in the game, stacking mass aoe and sitting in a five man pack. since all the tryhards do that **** in pubs, you know it is making them extra angry as they feel like they've earned a win by playing completely generic heros.

[Stiluz]

I heard that in Starcraft 2 they are making a new rule, you aren't allowed to attack the opponents base within the first 10 minutes. Also, you aren't allowed to attack the opponents base unless they have their troops there ready to defend.

I lol'd. :D

[Rasta]

S2 games stated they support backdooring since only -EM scrubtards who dont know fukkin jack shitt dont know how to deal with it. If your an -em scrubtardfuk please stop posting in my thread. S2 supports backdoor so gtfo now.

Anyway I noticed a lot of you have been saying agility heroes like magebane, madman and scout. This is not effective because I'm talking about backdooring midgame, where those piss poor hp agilities cant tank towers. Wildsoul could be an exception but I really dotn think hes suited for backdoor, simply, its just not convenient, although it works.

I think pollywog priest deserves an honorable mention, especially with his recent buffs. I'll be sure to update it. I won't add nymphora because she is a pusher hero, but I can see her ultimate being abused for some dirty deeds.

[Twiggie]

at the end of the day, when it gets to 90 minutes into a game, everyone has full inventories and all towers and raxxes are down, you have to backdoor. or you will lose.

[l4zarus]

I heard that in Starcraft 2 they are making a new rule, you aren't allowed to attack the opponents base within the first 10 minutes. Also, you aren't allowed to attack the opponents base unless they have their troops there ready to defend.

FINALLY! I've been asking for this since zergling rushes were invented.

[Griddler]

use lubrication

[Killstealing]

FINALLY! I've been asking for this since zergling rushes were invented.
he was being sarcastic scrub :3

[citrusmelon]

he was being sarcastic scrub :3

so was he. gg.

[souporman]

"ZOMG WARDS COST GOLD and I can't last hit QQ !!!!1!.. then wait 200 seconds.

"ZOMG I Die within 200 seconds and lost all gold!!!" .. then go to add/remove programs in control panel, and uninstall HoN.

Let's be realistic. If these are the complaints... it's only going to be 100 seconds.

[Pipin]

We once got backdoored by a poly with refresher orb and a scout. Didnt end well for us as the invu on buildings was on cooldown.

[Qe]

I think Nymphora can teleport a max of 2 people other than herself. Scout and Night hound are good backdoors until your opponent is sensible enough to buy stealth reveals, but at any rate if you're successfully backdooring to begin with we can just assume you're not talking about sensible opponents.

He is talking about SOTM buff.

[coolstorybro]

With Rhasta/Pollywog you're a back door champ. Everytime you see an invis rune take it and run to their base wait for creep spawn then autoattack tower and spawn wards. Lol if your up for it you can go bd build... Pot Haste, Refresher Orb/Restoration Stone, and SOTM. 22 Wards attacking tower and then rax is monstrous... best done during a teamfight as you stated.

[ShizzleBuzz]

Pollywog backdooring isn't really awesome,as tower will crap on your wards before wards crap on your tower :P

[Grokken]

That's why you get puzzlebox.

Curious you haven't mentioned this:

Backdooring with an easy escape hero, such as scout or magebane.

Carry a TP, ward to cover the lane you want to BD. Also place a ward INSIDE their base covering the immiediant approach to the rax you're after. Have a whispering helm so you can heal off the neuts while you wait.

Initiate BD when the enemy team starts pushing. Now they have two choices.

A) they carry on with their push hoping to fight 4v5 and base race. In which case you do as much damage to their buildings as you can until they're a creepwave away from hitting your base. When this happens hit your TP and go home. You'll be healed up and ready to fight a 5v5. Provided you don't all **** everything up you'll either win or at least stalemate the teamfight. Ultimate outcome? You got some good uncontested hits in on their base. They had to fight to do any damage to yours.

B) Some of them TP back to get rid of you. Back off straight away, don't wait to get stuck into a fight. Now with that ward inside their base watch and see if they follow through with the TP. If they do, just go and farm neuts, heal off them, and wait for them to go away and give you another chance to backdoor. Either way they just wasted 135g on a TP and if they stick around waiting for you to try again you're just spending more time farming. If they cancel when you back off then go to situation A. Keep backdooring until they're a creep wave away from hitting your own base. You keep this up you're eventually going to drop a tower and a rax. Death by a thousand cuts.

Either way congratulations. You just succeeded at being an annoying faggot. You've successfully bogged down the game and encouraged a turtlefest (funny S2 is against turtling but all for backdooring). You'll either eventually wear down their rax or take several players out of the game by making them waste time chasing ghosts.

Funny that "Oh buy wards, buy TPs, counter BD noobs." Believe it or not, the guy BDing can do exactly the same thing and it makes him as difficult to pin down as Warbeast jungling away in warded forest. If S2 would just implement the DotA healing towers countermeasure this wouldn't be half as bad.

[Rasta]

Curious you haven't mentioned this:

Backdooring with an easy escape hero, such as scout or magebane.

Carry a TP, ward to cover the lane you want to BD. Also place a ward INSIDE their base covering the immiediant approach to the rax you're after. Have a whispering helm so you can heal off the neuts while you wait.

Initiate BD when the enemy team starts pushing. Now they have two choices.

A) they carry on with their push hoping to fight 4v5 and base race. In which case you do as much damage to their buildings as you can until they're a creepwave away from hitting your base. When this happens hit your TP and go home. You'll be healed up and ready to fight a 5v5. Provided you don't all **** everything up you'll either win or at least stalemate the teamfight. Ultimate outcome? You got some good uncontested hits in on their base. They had to fight to do any damage to yours.

B) Some of them TP back to get rid of you. Back off straight away, don't wait to get stuck into a fight. Now with that ward inside their base watch and see if they follow through with the TP. If they do, just go and farm neuts, heal off them, and wait for them to go away and give you another chance to backdoor. Either way they just wasted 135g on a TP and if they stick around waiting for you to try again you're just spending more time farming. If they cancel when you back off then go to situation A. Keep backdooring until they're a creep wave away from hitting your own base. You keep this up you're eventually going to drop a tower and a rax. Death by a thousand cuts.

Either way congratulations. You just succeeded at being an annoying faggot. You've successfully bogged down the game and encouraged a turtlefest (funny S2 is against turtling but all for backdooring). You'll either eventually wear down their rax or take several players out of the game by making them waste time chasing ghosts.

Funny that "Oh buy wards, buy TPs, counter BD noobs." Believe it or not, the guy BDing can do exactly the same thing and it makes him as difficult to pin down as Warbeast jungling away in warded forest. If S2 would just implement the DotA healing towers countermeasure this wouldn't be half as bad.


duuuuuuuurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Im magebane. I have 0.2 hit points. I do 0.1 dps to tower. DURRRRRRRRRRRRRR DUUUUR I CAN ESCAPE VBUT I CANT SCRATCH TOWER WTF?

When he's sitting at the point he does 180/200 damage a swing, 10 seconds alone with the tower he'll put a decent mark in it. Hit and Run. It'll add up.

How about trying it before letting us know you're related to Armaderp.

[Gowerly]

Engineer as a viable BD guy? Tinker on the turret means the tower simply can't kill it.
Also, Wildsoul?

[coolstorybro]

Pollywog backdooring isn't really awesome,as tower will crap on your wards before wards crap on your tower :P
Autoattack it once then spawn wards you take minor beating and tp as they tp to tower. 22 wards last a long time

[Rasta]

When he's sitting at the point he does 180/200 damage a swing, 10 seconds alone with the tower he'll put a decent mark in it. Hit and Run. It'll add up.

How about trying it before letting us know you're related to Armaderp.

200 damage a hit? If your this farmed on one of those carries you should be helping out in a team fight and etc. The whole point of my guide was to backdoor in a viable fashion, that is, late early game, and in midgame, not 65 minutes in.

[Rasta]

Engineer as a viable BD guy? Tinker on the turret means the tower simply can't kill it.
Also, Wildsoul?

Ye I think these 2 might be able to do it, I have to test it some. I dont think they compare to warbeast or pollywog though.

[S_SienZ]

Just had a noob team rage at me for backdooring ( when I really wasnt lolz ). I was defiler and we just genocided their entire team and took the mid raxes, so I proceded to go solo the btm tower and raxes. ( Void talisman FTW ) . They were all raging LOLz.... like they could do anything about it anyway....they were dead ffs....

BTW about the HoN competitive scene, I remember watching a replay where team LOADED were struggling ( against tSM ) I think where bkid asked the admins whether backdooring was allowed. It was. =)

[Raptor_Jesus]

Pollywog + assassin's shroud + staff of the master


run to tower, cast ulti on top of it and auto attack
stealth and run

repeat


Screw the shroud, rush a SOTM with a Refresher Stone and lewl as the tower collapses.

[InBe4The404]

the thing with backdooring is even if it's not effective it's really funny because someone ALWAYS gets mad and calls you the noob even if it's his throne that just went down. sometimes when i play em smurf games i just run up and start backdooring with whatever hero i have specifically because i know it will start a fight and get all the scourge kiddies off the hill by their basetower where they are hoping we run into an aoe cluster****.

[Blue_Aura]

Takes no skill to counter, either.

:D Win

[skanzz]

That sirlin article is so bollocks. It basically says "the pros will make one set of rules and if other people make other rules we will call them scrubs". His logic would allow people in one tournament to call people in another tournament scrubs, (which becomes interesting when the same teams are in both tournaments! :o)

[Grokken]

That sirlin article is so bollocks. It basically says "the pros will make one set of rules and if other people make other rules we will call them scrubs". His logic would allow people in one tournament to call people in another tournament scrubs, (which becomes interesting when the same teams are in both tournaments! :o)

no .

[Rasta]

It takes no skill to counter, that is why you don't ever see it in a tournament match. It still wins you pubs though. There is nothing better then putting an entire team on tilt cuz u backdoored a rax.


That sirlin article is so bollocks. It basically says "the pros will make one set of rules and if other people make other rules we will call them scrubs". His logic would allow people in one tournament to call people in another tournament scrubs, (which becomes interesting when the same teams are in both tournaments! :o)

Your a scrub. Die.

[Rasta]

Screw the shroud, rush a SOTM with a Refresher Stone and lewl as the tower collapses.

I find portal key to be better. It's a better item overall for u too. Puzzlebox gives u more dps and utility early game making your team more dominant.

[LuvSic]

wow, 13k views

[klorzan]

There is no such thing as back dooring in hon

[Yoda``]

Only one hero can effectively Backdoor early, quickly and safely. Thats Warbeast. 20 min level 3 puzzlebox, he doesnt need to run around with his crew until hes at the tower, he can put a decent fight vs 1-2 hero and he can run away anytime.

The tower goes down in 10 seconds and he doesn't even need to portal out. He can also just run away and leave the creeps finish it.

Wildsoul, Pollywog, Ophelia are all decent options, but they don't have all the advantages of a backdooring Warbeast.

IMO, Warbeast is a shitty carry (run speed is nothing considering his animation makes him stop for 5 hours after hitting something and he's forced to follow his opponent a bit like rampage instead of having a built in slow/stun to keep them in a safe place). In the meta game, he is 100% built around backdooring and if you don't play him that way, don't play him at all.

[Assbuster]

This game is actually about taking towers and then the enemy's base, so what they call backdooring it seems to me not only pretty legal but a clair way to go. war is war.

[RastaSmurf]

Only one hero can effectively Backdoor early, quickly and safely. Thats Warbeast. 20 min level 3 puzzlebox, he doesnt need to run around with his crew until hes at the tower, he can put a decent fight vs 1-2 hero and he can run away anytime.

The tower goes down in 10 seconds and he doesn't even need to portal out. He can also just run away and leave the creeps finish it.

Wildsoul, Pollywog, Ophelia are all decent options, but they don't have all the advantages of a backdooring Warbeast.

IMO, Warbeast is a shitty carry (run speed is nothing considering his animation makes him stop for 5 hours after hitting something and he's forced to follow his opponent a bit like rampage instead of having a built in slow/stun to keep them in a safe place). In the meta game, he is 100% built around backdooring and if you don't play him that way, don't play him at all.

I'll agree with you on this. Warbeast is the only competent backoor hero, ophelia and pollywag are so useful in pushes and ganks that theres no point backdooring with them.

However I don't think warbeast is a bad hero. All you need is puzzlebox for you to start carrying, and 522 ms is hard to get away from when you die in 2 hits and lose all your mana. Add a well placed stun from your teamates and hes very potent, especially since in a teamfight NO hero can stand toe to toe with warbeast, he just trashes you unless you can bash him, and he is very good at suriviving with his strong health and movespeed.

The only thing about warbeast that is bad is his early game. His wolves cost too much mana at level 1. If a top team manages to break him and pull off a good jungle without getting ganked too much, I foresee people going 'WOW WTF WARBEASTWIN' on forums.

Btw when you pick Puzzlebeast.. BEWARE OF BEHEMOTH HES REALLY REALLY GOOD AGAINST YOU.

[coolstorybro]

I'll agree with you on this. Warbeast is the only competent backoor hero, ophelia and pollywag are so useful in pushes and ganks that theres no point backdooring with them.

However I don't think warbeast is a bad hero. All you need is puzzlebox for you to start carrying, and 522 ms is hard to get away from when you die in 2 hits and lose all your mana. Add a well placed stun from your teamates and hes very potent, especially since in a teamfight NO hero can stand toe to toe with warbeast, he just trashes you unless you can bash him, and he is very good at suriviving with his strong health and movespeed.

The only thing about warbeast that is bad is his early game. His wolves cost too much mana at level 1. If a top team manages to break him and pull off a good jungle without getting ganked too much, I foresee people going 'WOW WTF WARBEASTWIN' on forums.
Just saying that one reason somebody back doors is because their team is getting raped in every fight. If you have no hope in teamfights... try a backdoor :p

[RastaSmurf]

Just saying that one reason somebody back doors is because their team is getting raped in every fight. If you have no hope in teamfights... try a backdoor :p

Ya, if you've ever had a game on a hero like ophelia or polly where you just got picked on and completely dominated, backdooring makes you extremely useful. If you can pull it off skillfully you can at least negate 1 person in a teamfight, and since you already are so far behind if they port to stop you then they are only wasting there time.

Having to get new Ophelia creeps every time they get killed sucks balls though. Maybe snotter boss+puzzlebox aura ftw?

[Ripred]

anyone who is against backdooring simply doesn't play to win.

when your only chance at winning is bd, do it.

they also dont understand that it takes more skill to backdoor than to push. pushing, you have your side's creeps with you. backdooring you're all alone. so if you can get the person doing it, they are screwed.

if they bd during a team fight, its a 4v5 and its usually the carry that is doing the bd so you should be able to completely steamroll them.

[akitoes]

That sirlin article is so bollocks. It basically says "the pros will make one set of rules and if other people make other rules we will call them scrubs". His logic would allow people in one tournament to call people in another tournament scrubs, (which becomes interesting when the same teams are in both tournaments! :o)

please uninstall.

[Azurdragon]

Hmm Naga Siren.... :(

[Rasta]

Guys I've been tryin out wildsoul recently, this guide here was pretty useful since I never ever got alchemist bones on wildsoul.
http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?t=81777

Anyhow, he does seem a viable backdoor hero, I just cant seem to break him like I can break warbeast and ophelia in a 1750+ game. seems liek if you pick wildsoul, your team has to be already winning the game.

1817 games are usually out of the question to pick warbeast and to backdoor on ophelia, but im sure polly can do it?

I need input.

[Chudi`]

Wow this thread is still alive? Well, FYI latest HoN tournament rules states that Backdooring outer towers are allowed but entering the the opposing base without creep support is not allowed...

So Backdoor is allowed but there are restrictions...




Game Rules

-Be a good sportsman and have fun playing competitively.

-Backdooring outer towers is allowed. (Outer towers are OUTSIDE of the base)

-Entering the oppositions base without a creep wave is NOT allowed (You must enter opponents base with creep support)

-Blocking creeps in the base with Behemoth's Fissure is not allowed

-Item drop is not enabled

-No glitching out of the map

-No ledge glitching Kongor (like abusing slither wards to kill Kongor or pulling him to tower)

-Abuse of any bug, or glitch is considered illegal.

-No pooling items (Including bottle) : You are allowed to share bottle in lane, you cannot give it to another hero with the intention for use for a long period of time.

-No using players that are NOT on the roster. If you are found using a ringer you are disqualified from the tournament.

[YawningAngel]

Wow this thread is still alive? Well, FYI latest HoN tournament rules states that Backdooring outer towers are allowed but entering the the opposing base without creep support is not allowed...

So Backdoor is allowed but there are restrictions...
It's OK, I can tell you with a reasonable degree of certainty that the MYM tournament will have no such rules.

[Qo_oQ`]

anyone who is against backdooring simply doesn't play to win.

when your only chance at winning is bd, do it.

they also dont understand that it takes more skill to backdoor than to push. pushing, you have your side's creeps with you. backdooring you're all alone. so if you can get the person doing it, they are screwed.

if they bd during a team fight, its a 4v5 and its usually the carry that is doing the bd so you should be able to completely steamroll them.

First part is right, second part is absolutely retarded. Backdooring does not take more skill than pushing.

[Kalafilee]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_9xzhrPA6veI/SmA9QH6QdXI/AAAAAAAACB0/Udl0LMNtTn0/s400/wtf%20is%20this%20shit%20piccard.jpg

[Chudi`]

It's OK, I can tell you with a reasonable degree of certainty that the MYM tournament will have no such rules.

Hmmm...




Bugs and restrictions

Creep skipping is not allowed, meaning you may not attack the enemies building without creep support. If you reached the building with creeps you are though allowed to continue attacking it even if the creeps are killed. If you reached the opponents base together with allied creeps, you may attack all buildings, and you do not have to cancel your attack if your creeps have been killed.

http://www.mymym.com/en/coverage/524/1.html

If MyM didn't allow it in DotA, it will be probably be the same in MyM HoN Pride Defending...

[lolsworth]

It was banned in DOTA because you could teleport into the enemy base right?
Which is disabled in HON?

I like how most of the people in the thread whining about BD are greynames.

On topic: Scout is boss at BDing. Flurry takes down towers quick, and he can get away easy with Vanish too.

[Rasta]

Scout cant backdoor unless you have a lot of farm. Any agility can backdoor with tons of farm, but this will only be during lategame and not worth the risk. If you've read this I hope you understand this is during midgame I'm talking about.

In an intense game it is not viable to backdoor with scout, madman, or magebane because if you've farmed properly then chances are you've won the game if the hardcarry is so farmed.

[procupine]

It was banned in DOTA because you could teleport into the enemy base right?
Which is disabled in HON?

I like how most of the people in the thread whining about BD are greynames.

On topic: Scout is boss at BDing. Flurry takes down towers quick, and he can get away easy with Vanish too.

Tower's can see through stealth but I guess you mean once you have killed the tower. Without creeps unless you are ridiculously overfed there is no way you can take the tower down before they TP in.

On topic, anyone who says Backdooring is "cheap" is a scrub. A scrub will never beat a good player because he has his own set of rules restricting his gameplay. Backdooring is allowed as long as it is allowed.

[iForkyou]

Wildsoul is the King of Backdooring. Also, backdooring rocks.

[JSW]

i don't like it but i will retaliate if someone decides to bd my towers first, regardless of the degree it's been done to. i did win a game by bd'ing with hammerstorm. ult just destroyed rax in seconds.

[Seventy4]

Everyone who is against backdooring is a scrub, plain and simple.

If you don't play to win your a scrub.

Backdooring is a valid strategy to win. So is ganking. So is last hitting. So is buying wards with item independent heroes like Thunderbringer and Demented shaman.

If backdooring is cheap, then so is buying wards and leaving your lane, and not autoattacking creeps is cheap too since you get more gold. Using spells to harass is cheap. Attacking other heroes is cheap. Not staying at fountain all game is cheap.

Everything is cheap when your a scrub because you don't play to win.

fully agreed.
if there are no measures to deal with it ingame from s2 games backdooring is a legal strategy

http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showpost.php?p=399341&postcount=28

[SilverWave00]

Back Door shows a lot. One it show that u lost the game already cause ya can't win with ya own strength. 2 if u can win u wouldn't back door. 3 it cheap to win eventhough ya know ya lost. 4 Ya want to win so bad that ya have to backdoor and it show how u get bann when u back door Xd.

[Rasta]

Back Door shows a lot. One it show that u lost the game already cause ya can't win with ya own strength. 2 if u can win u wouldn't back door. 3 it cheap to win eventhough ya know ya lost. 4 Ya want to win so bad that ya have to backdoor and it show how u get bann when u back door Xd.

1500 psr posting about balance is always rofl.

Attention everyone who is against backdooring, this is the epitome of your arguments: some 1500 psr scrub who doesn't know how to punctuate.

Please ban me. I don't want to play with you.

I play to win.

So basically your saying that everything is cheap. So buying wards and warding the map is cheap since its almost like maphack for people that are not aware of it. Same with having good lane combos. Thats cheap too?
I see, last hitting is also cheap since you get owned in the lane. Maybe you should stop buying boots first? OH right, you only play for fun so boots first is fun?

f u c k. This really needs to stop in HoN.

[Yoda``]

If its fun and not against the rules, why not ?

I agree its retarded easy to do but I'll still do it whenever I can on Warbeast. He's a bad hardcarry and he brings more to a team by backdooring.

[Angusiasty]

:warb: + :Puzzlebox::AbyssalSkull:

[Nightcrawler]

My god I promised I would not respond to this thread, buuuuut, it was just too tempting.


Teleporting back is not a counter to backdooring, sorry. You can see it a mile away and no one backdoors without an escape method.
Wards are not effective either because I highly doubt the whole team is going to teleport back and its not hard to escape one person who isnt arachna.

Also what if a whole team backdoors? Hello? There's a reason every league disallows backdooring. If you want more and better reasons, ask them.

Okay...first of all...there's a thing called stuns? Maybe you've heard of them? Maybe you've heard of NOT teleporting directly to the building they are attacking, and instead something just a bit out of sight behind?

As to your wards not being effective...it sounds like you're saying it needs to be 5v1 to have a chance. You only need ONE, one person who is stronger, and it's no BD for them.

Third, this isn't f***ing DotA. You want your sh**ty DotA kiddy rules, go f***ing play DotA. This is HoN, so either grow some balls, or gtfo.

As to your last point...the whole team bding...It's not a ****ing backdoor if the whole team
"BD's" so to speak. Jesus christ you're a moron.

Yes I realize his post was made last year, but it encompasses all of the points the Q_Qers against BDing saying it is 'illegal' made. It's not illegal. Until it is written EXPLICITELY in the ToS "BACKDOORING IS ILLEGAL", it is fair game. Just stfu and uninstall HoN and go back to DotA. I may not like BDing either, but at least I don't cry about it. It may be underhanded, and cheap (whatever you want to call it), but it is legitimate.

/thread.

EDIT: Oh silly me, how could I forget. THIS IS A THREAD THAT EXPLAINS HOW TO BACKDOOR, NOT HOW TO Q_Q ABOUT BACKDOORING. If you have nothing helpful to say (something that improves the guide) then you shouldn't say it. You want to Q_Q, go Q_Q in your own threads.

Here's a nice title for your thread:

BDING IS SO OP QQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQ

EDIT 2: OH LOLOLOL this is choice.


Because it's a boring winning condition; because i place myself on the same level of these noobs. But this is the only way to demonstrate how stupid childs they are...
Backdooring is banned in ALL leagues, it's a fact. Period. Your arguments are useless. Stop crying about it...

And about written rules: in many nations, raping is a crime; but in few others not. So, are you thinkng that raping is not a crime because in these nations it's permitted?
Some rules are not necessarily written; they come from wisdon.
If you undertand it, ok; otherwise, i advise you to change game...

I repeat it: go buy skill and stop whining.


I repeat it: go buy skill and stop whining.^Says the whiner? And really, all leagues? Please copy paste into this thread the rules every league in the world.

Edit 3:
And why the developpers say nothing? This long discussion can be closed in one post from a developper saying "we think it is a strat", or "we gonna make it impossible in few patchs".
^Because they don't care...BDing isn't the end of the world, just the game you are in.

[Yoshi0p]

Bd is part of game and isnt really ban-able :S

if ur banning some1 for bding you are just a bad loser :)

[millock]

People get angry about BD's because they feel entitled to victory if their heroes are stronger than opposing enemy heroes. But that's not the point of the game. The point of the game is to kill the enemy's town first.

BDing is a fair and legal strategy unless s2 says otherwise. It's fair because both sides have an equal opportunity to do so from the start of the game. If you have reservations against destroying the enemy's base through fair means, then you have reservations against achieving the ultimate point of the game.

[RECONNN]

Stop them doing it or stop QQ

[SmokeShow]

Madman is a beast at taking down towers later in the game with his ult on...

[SkillBlade]

:hamm:+:ElderParasite:+ulti = bye bye tower,

:HomecomingStone:+:ShrunkenHead: = bye bye enemy-team-rushing-back-to-their-base

[Haor]

:hamm:+:ElderParasite:+ulti = bye bye hammerstone you have been kicked

fixed

[Tryptophan]

Back Door shows a lot. One it show that u lost the game already cause ya can't win with ya own strength. 2 if u can win u wouldn't back door. 3 it cheap to win eventhough ya know ya lost. 4 Ya want to win so bad that ya have to backdoor and it show how u get bann when u back door Xd.

Yeeuh man. I li' to type out my street talk on the internetz cuz da' shi' make me look badass

BD is an effective strategy. Deal with it. Play to win. Don't play because you want to farm kills and get back to back genocides while stat padding. When the other team has no options left but to backdoor, it's your fault that you didn't end the game earlier.

[Rasta]

Hopefully the scrubs will have been smited by the honorable trolls in my thread with retail.

Now we can actually discuss some strategy. Warbeast and wildsoul in general, they are just so unviable in the higher tiers of play.

Backdooring is viable when

a.) their team is crap
b.) your team is just as crap

If only their team is crap you win.
If only your team is crap then you will probably lose.

If you cant stop warbeast 4on5 then your crap.

Obviously there is exceptions in mixed teams of baddies/decents. This is when backdooring is most viable, in a game with lots of baddies but some decent players too.

[xoduz]

eh im aiight with backdooring just wanted to point it out that it isnt THAT easy to either do it or stop it as people sugget.

1.for bders you need to run a HUGE ****ING WAY to get to their base all the while hoping your team doesnt get eaten 4v5 cuz if they do you can be sure that the enemy heroes will most likely raxing faqster than you(with no creep support too).

2.if they defend the bd by coming from the back or tping to some tother buildings you are screwed 70% of the time unless you shrunken/tp which isnt going to be effective too many times.the fact that you have to run all that way and then tele back into your base loses a ton of farm and experience for you.

3.for anti bders.theres a limit to how many wards and where you can place.Sure you might see the guy b4 he comes to have sexy time with your base but you will need to send 2+ guys back to defend it and that might cause the game to shift.

4.a bding warbeast with his wolves and necro 3 and the warcry spell can rape buildings faster than defilers ulti.if you have a shrunken head use your ulti to go in and summon wolves,puzzle and battle cry.wail on the towers and when you see one of them use shrunken and keep waililng on/run teleport out.

[Rasta]

eh im aiight with backdooring just wanted to point it out that it isnt THAT easy to either do it or stop it as people sugget.

1.for bders you need to run a HUGE ****ING WAY to get to their base all the while hoping your team doesnt get eaten 4v5 cuz if they do you can be sure that the enemy heroes will most likely raxing faqster than you(with no creep support too).

2.if they defend the bd by coming from the back or tping to some tother buildings you are screwed 70% of the time unless you shrunken/tp which isnt going to be effective too many times.the fact that you have to run all that way and then tele back into your base loses a ton of farm and experience for you.

3.for anti bders.theres a limit to how many wards and where you can place.Sure you might see the guy b4 he comes to have sexy time with your base but you will need to send 2+ guys back to defend it and that might cause the game to shift.

4.a bding warbeast with his wolves and necro 3 and the warcry spell can rape buildings faster than defilers ulti.if you have a shrunken head use your ulti to go in and summon wolves,puzzle and battle cry.wail on the towers and when you see one of them use shrunken and keep waililng on/run teleport out.

So basically the risk evens out with the reward. Especially because how hard it is to pick warbeast against decent players who will just capitalize on the 4on5 and win.

[BeEyeEnGeOh]

This is a bad guide if wild soul is not in the pick
his bear is designed to do more dmg to buildings, transforming into bear is designed for tanking creeps and towers, his movespeed is designed to help you outrun ppl even with haste, he just needs to level

[ChaLkDust]

Umm... you forgot another unconventional type of backdooring - Deadwood plus Devourer combo. It is so rax if you know how to do it. DW and Devo all get pots at start. (I've only tried this with Hellbourne side thow.) Then DW proceeds to clear cutting the trees from top lane all the way to their base (just enough so they can buy items) and then, they put wards (3 at minimum) so Devo can hook properly. This BD is so unorthodox, but so rewarding. The technique is that (while under the cover of trees) Devourer hooks any1 that respawns, then he and DW proceed to beating the s**t out of the hooked person. An experienced Devo can hook immediately or with 100% accuracy. I think a youtube video has been made. Go search it.

[Pestilence]

yes.

i like alot although i dont do it unless its do-able in a game (team failing but im farmed as hell as scout/nh/warbeast) usually in pubs the enemy team is just so fed that they just faceroll me at the rax :<

[Blackthorn]

I both agree and disagree with both sides. Because this rule is often used in tournys etc, this should be added as an advanced game option. Just have a little check for "disable bd" and then if you like to BD, don't play those games, and if you hate it, do. Its that simple, everyone is happy. Stop *****ing at eachother, lol.

[Rasta]

This is a bad guide if wild soul is not in the pick
his bear is designed to do more dmg to buildings, transforming into bear is designed for tanking creeps and towers, his movespeed is designed to help you outrun ppl even with haste, he just needs to level

I'm working on a wildsoul section. The problem I'm having is twofold.

First I cannot escape as well as warbeast can.
I dont have as big of an impact as a farmed warbeast with puzzle does.

So far I have found that when it is viable for wildsoul to backdoor, he could jut roflstomp the other team in the first place.

Warbeast backdoor is way more lethal and he can do it far earlier.

Finally I really hate the movespeed nerf on his ult. Its total bullshitt, please give us back old wildsoul S2

[Renzorrr]

Umm... you forgot another unconventional type of backdooring - Deadwood plus Devourer combo. It is so rax if you know how to do it. DW and Devo all get pots at start. (I've only tried this with Hellbourne side thow.) Then DW proceeds to clear cutting the trees from top lane all the way to their base (just enough so they can buy items) and then, they put wards (3 at minimum) so Devo can hook properly. This BD is so unorthodox, but so rewarding. The technique is that (while under the cover of trees) Devourer hooks any1 that respawns, then he and DW proceed to beating the s**t out of the hooked person. An experienced Devo can hook immediately or with 100% accuracy. I think a youtube video has been made. Go search it.

rofl i saw that it's hilarious
:dead: :devo:

[Fery]

i still dont know if BD is allowed or not But those who say it isnt , then tell me why cant nymphora use his ulti into enemy base just like Pit lord?
i think Bd shouldnt be allowed if this game is not dota then they might aswell remove the dota heros and Dont copy every thing from Dota just like buying boots from outpost.

[Kaelillidan]

I did some successive backdooring with a post haste magebane earlier today, eventually got to the point where all I was doing was porting between top and bottom, jungling, and dealing as much damage to the base as I could. Ended up with 2 kills 5 deaths and 340 creep kills, ricer much?

[Rasta]

i still dont know if BD is allowed or not But those who say it isnt , then tell me why cant nymphora use his ulti into enemy base just like Pit lord?
i think Bd shouldnt be allowed if this game is not dota then they might aswell remove the dota heros and Dont copy every thing from Dota just like buying boots from outpost.

We are not here to discuss how much of a scrub you are. This thread is to discuss how to backdoor, not if it's allowed.

[Skull4er]

add the wildsoul section and then we can proceed to put this guide in the premium section.
gogo don't be so lazy! :P

[Rasta]

allright. I'll work on it. First I need to take some screenshots, change the lame purple and yellow font to white, and it will be ready.

I'm still working on wildsoul, It's just that his role is an issue, it's the same as warbeast. Except warbeast is 1000 times better at backdooring. The wildsoul section would look like - 'if your gonna pick wildsoul just to backdoor, pick warbeast instead'

[sillent]

Wildsoul works well (I think his passives work on dominated creeps/puzzlebox)
Also backdooring with warbeast in the middle of a teamfight is awesome!!

Trick, if you feel a battle coming on a lane, go hide in teh forest near their base.. Just as the fight starts (make sure its starting and they cant back out) you summon your minions, activate ult and storm the tower, before the fight is over you'll probably have melee rax and they wont know what hit em.. (ofc carry a TP, and youre home safe :))
Note: not activating ulti means itll take you longer to get to the tower and bd, but incase the enemy comes back you can run away..

[Donn]

But those who say it isnt , then tell me why cant nymphora use his ulti into enemy base just like Pit lord?

She can't.

[Ascalion]

I think Backdooring should at least be made harder to pull out, I believe it's not fair that half a team has to TP to base while pushing a lane, and even if you TP a farmed warbeast with Shrunken Head can take out a tower in about 4 seconds, towers should receive a bonus in armor if there are no creeps in sight giving the defending team a bit more time to counter the BD if you really can't defend after 10 seconds then you deserve to be backdoored

[FlamerFuel]

Nymphora's Teleport + Defiler I have yet to try, it looks good on paper.


Try it ..loads of fun and works like a charm =)

1. tele you + Defiler
2. take down tower
3. use tpstone

1. tele ...