View Full Version : Puck VS Bubbles
Wolfy01
05-24-2010, 01:50 AM
Just wondering what differences there are between Puck and Bubbles.
A simple test showed this:
http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/9509/bubblesaoe.jpg
http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/2061/puckaoe.jpg
There's obviously a vast difference in the AoE
I also read that the AoE on illusionary orb was 225, whereas the Radius on Shell surf was 225 (resulting in 450 aoe?)
Can anyone confirm (code wise) if there is a difference?
ElementUser
05-24-2010, 08:59 AM
I already know that Dream Coil radius is 400 & Bubbles' ult is 600 (for the casting anyway, snap range is 600 in both games)
AoE = radius in DotA, so those are the same
Wolfy01
05-24-2010, 09:15 AM
Fair enough then.. It just seems like Bubbles is so much more powerful than Puck ever was and I find it hard to believe that its because of a measly 200 extra radius on his ulti http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/images/smilies/redface.gif
ElementUser
05-24-2010, 09:16 AM
There are other differences, but those are very subtle & I still have to confirm them with Robzor
RockCrockier
05-24-2010, 12:24 PM
Fair enough then.. It just seems like Bubbles is so much more powerful than Puck ever was and I find it hard to believe that its because of a measly 200 extra radius on his ulti :o
Puck has been a semi frequent pick in competitive play for a long time so... no not really. Puck has the advantage of being able to port away to his first skill while using his third skill, though.
If Bubbles get stuned while he is using 3rd skill it cancels it. Where as it didn't for puck?
If Bubbles get stuned while he is using 3rd skill it cancels it. Where as it didn't for puck?
that skill worked like nullstone in dota :) there is not that good :/ only absorb damage :( maybe bug? maybe pay for bigger aoe?
Nolifer
05-24-2010, 01:22 PM
Puck has been a semi frequent pick in competitive play for a long time so... no not really. Puck has the advantage of being able to port away to his first skill while using his third skill, though.
Bubbles can pull this one off as well, you have to use the stop command while channeling the third skill, then quickly port away to his shell.
TMachine
05-24-2010, 01:24 PM
The two huge differences I noticed when playing bubbles, having played much with puck in competetive dota is that bubbles shellthrow or whatever you want to call it seems longer than pucks and it's also a more symmetric ability where bubbles is allowed to teleport much smoother in hon than puck was able to in dota, there's no delay and in dota during the last duration of the spell puck didnt seem to be able to teleport, while bubbles is allowed to teleport throughout the whole spell
The other thing I noticed was that when Bubbles uses his shellability, the items freezes, you'll be unable to use them.
This is disturbing if you have a portal key or a sheepstick, you must cancel the spell first then use the items, which is hard unless you have decent hotkeys for your items.
In dota the usage of the items cancelled the phase shift which made puck much more flexible, this is still theoretically possible with bubbles but in practise it will be rather hard
Also is this the only hero that had its casting animations downgraded? :p
Novice
05-25-2010, 02:21 PM
Does anyone have any idea why the hell bubble's 3rd skills auto-cast does not block hook? My game was utterly ruined due to relying to the best hook counter ever.
ElementUser
05-25-2010, 02:26 PM
Hook has a ministun when it impacts, so that's why. You'll have to manually do it (which should be the case anyway, it makes you more pro)
Techno_Mage
05-25-2010, 03:10 PM
Milk is correct with his using items and spells while phase shifted, i think this is a big downfall for his usability, it was awsome being able to port from inside and the such
Someone on these forums told me that apparently is a bug and some dev was fixing it.
relic
05-25-2010, 03:29 PM
Does anyone have any idea why the hell bubble's 3rd skills auto-cast does not block hook? My game was utterly ruined due to relying to the best hook counter ever.
It won't block Thunderbringers bolt too, but it did block it in DotA.
Hook has a ministun when it impacts, so that's why. You'll have to manually do it (which should be the case anyway, it makes you more pro)
I still think that it should prevent it and nullify the spell. Case being, instant casts such as bolt, hammerstorms stun (not sure if it is nullified or not), etc. should trigger take cover.
All in all I hope they change it because take cover is such a good skill that is missing that bonus to make it really a great skill.
bubbles attack animation and projectile speed are frustratingly slow. early lasthitting is just so hard with the guy.
ElementUser
05-25-2010, 03:59 PM
Yeah well this is Mechanics not Balance, so I suggest you stop posting about Balance, Suggestions, opinions, etc. here
linsen
05-25-2010, 04:10 PM
It won't block Thunderbringers bolt too, but it did block it in DotA.
I still think that it should prevent it and nullify the spell. Case being, instant casts such as bolt, hammerstorms stun (not sure if it is nullified or not), etc. should trigger take cover.
All in all I hope they change it because take cover is such a good skill that is missing that bonus to make it really a great skill.
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Do you read tooltips? It blocks any type of damage that doesnt have a type of stun. Why the hell should he be able to have a free nullstone from level 1?
How hard is it to cast it to dodge spells anyways? This isn't exactly quake instagib with railguns
relic
05-25-2010, 04:42 PM
Do you read tooltips? It blocks any type of damage that doesnt have a type of stun. Why the hell should he be able to have a free nullstone from level 1?
How hard is it to cast it to dodge spells anyways? This isn't exactly quake instagib with railguns
The normal thing to do is presume that it'll work as its inspiration counterpart. If you played DotA you know what I mean. Why are you saying it is imbalance having a nullstone at lvl1 if it never was exposed and therefor not tested in HoN? And for years it was played as lvl1 nullstone in DotA that served its propose as a counter to some heroes and nobody said it was imbalanced...
How hard it is to cast? Pretty hard if its a instant cast...
KARTlK
05-25-2010, 05:11 PM
Weird, I thought the normal thing to do was read the tooltip to find out what the spell ACTUALLY does.
KARTlK
05-25-2010, 05:14 PM
for years it was played as lvl1 nullstone in DotA... nobody said it was imbalanced...
He clearly follows the DotA scene quite carefully, to realize that no pro, or even pub or caster, has considered Puck or this spell to be imbalanced/overpowered.
How hard it is to cast? Pretty hard if its a instant cast...
No spells listed in thread so far are instant cast D:
relic
05-25-2010, 05:29 PM
_ its your opinion and I respect that. Have a nice day :)
Novice
05-28-2010, 03:22 AM
Hook has a ministun when it impacts, so that's why. You'll have to manually do it (which should be the case anyway, it makes you more pro)
(Well, true) But you really cannot block that forsaken mask cast hook that you possibly cannot see before it hits you (fog covered).
Lycurgus
05-28-2010, 04:00 AM
Imo, if you port a char from dota. Please keep the details of the hero.
right now whats irritating is the fact that in dota if you phase shift (the third skill) then activate you assassin shroud you model is then the 3rd skills model. i say change it. in dota it was hard to see puck when he used his third skill, in HoN its lane. just goes into his shell which can be easily seen. its stupid.
And they have buffed the range on the ult. pucks ult had 450 range to do the intial leash, it had a 600 breaking range. this version of the ult is retard proof. they just gave him a instacast hellbringer ult stun.
Spiriax
05-28-2010, 04:45 AM
right now whats irritating is the fact that in dota if you phase shift (the third skill) then activate you assassin shroud you model is then the 3rd skills model. i say change it. in dota it was hard to see puck when he used his third skill, in HoN its lane. just goes into his shell which can be easily seen. its stupid.
Personally, I never used Phase Shift as a way to hide myself. But, I agree that it's a little bummer that he's so visible in this game when he does it.
My solution to this is that if he jumps into his shell he'd spin his body and land on the other side of the shell. Why? Because then that side of the shell could be better camouflaged with the ground. I don't know, maybe it wouldn't help since Take Cover has a sound effect too, so it's noticeable anyway. :)
It's pretty funny how he can throw his shell and hide in it at the same time. Does he have 2 shells?
They nerfed the AoE on the ult though.