Snotter Lord

[Nidhogg]

Snotter Lord

http://honwiki.net/w/images/4/4b/Snotterunit.gif

Speed: 290
Range: 600
Affiliation: Hellbourne
Primary Stat: INT



Sound and Visual Design
The King of Snots, the great one himself, the Snotter Lord. Oozes slightly and makes use of a quirky CEO voice. Leaves small snotter puddles as he walks.
Sound: "We've got a deadline to meet!" - "Snot a problem" - "You know my wife wears a pink slip" - "Do you like to sew?" - "What's a retirement plan?" - "This one's for the Snotter Boss!"

Story

The Snotters are a race driven by work. Tirelessly working for the Snotter Lord, from menial tasks like planting fungi to help fertilize the new seasons, to building weaponry for the Legion to use when the war versus the Hellborne broke out. When that wasn't enough, he joined the fight himself.

Role
Lane pusher and micro team fighter. Makes use of his snotters and slow to aoe people down.

Stats


20 Strength + 1.8 per level
23 Intellect + 2.9 per level
16 Agility +1.7 per level






You're Late!
http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/3347/mortitk8.jpg
The Snotter Lord uses his executive powers to influence timely arrivals of everyone, not just his employees.
60/80/100/120 magic damage and slows for 20/30/40/50% for 4/5/6/7 seconds.

Descriptors: [90/110/130/150 mana / 18/16/14/12 second CD]

1.60 magic damage and slows for 30% for 3 seconds / 450 cast range.
2.80 magic damage and slows for 30% for 4 seconds. / 500 cast range.
3.100 magic damage and slows for 40% for 4 seconds. / 600 cast range.
4.120 magic damage and slows for 50% for 5 seconds. / 700 cast range.

Visual:Snotter Lord hurls a glob of goo on target creature that clings to their feet and shows a trail of snot in the wake of the person walking. Snotter Lord exclaims "Better call in!"

__________________________________________________


You're Hired ! / You're Fired !
http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/5025/heartstopnx4.jpg
The Snotter Lord is always looking for a few good snotters. The best places are from the corpses of the recently fallen.
Ressurects the nearest recently deceased creature to fight along side you as snotter minions. The snotters have 250/300/350/400 life and give a 2/4/7/10% move speed increase aura in a 200 aoe. You may only have 5 minions under your control at any one time. This maximum can be raised by your Promotion! ultimate and Staff of the Masters.

Descriptors: [50/70/90/120 mana / 60 second CD]

1.Raises 2 snotter minions that have 250 life and a 2% move speed aura.
2.Raises 3 snotter minions that have 300 life and a 4% move speed aura.
3.Raises 4 snotter minions that have 350 life and a 7% move speed aura.
4.Raises 5 snotter minions that have 400 life and a 10% move speed aura.

Visual:Snotter minions spawn in a gush of snot from corpses. There doesn't have to be an exact match of corpses. One corpse will spawn the necessary amount. A corpse is required however. Snotter Lord exclaims "Get to work!"

-------
You're Fired!
http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/1476/resonateje8.jpg
The Snotter Lord punishes poor performance amongst his workforce. He instantly fires all his snotter minions.
Fires all your current snotter minions. They explode for 60/70/80/90 magic damage in a 400 radius. Can also be used to fire individual snotters who are performing below par.

Descriptors: [20 second CD]

1.60 magic damage in a 400 aoe. 100% done in a 150 radius, 75% in a 275, 50% in a 400 aoe radius.
2.70 magic damage in a 400 aoe. 100% done in a 150 radius, 75% in a 275, 50% in a 400 aoe radius.
3.80 magic damage in a 400 aoe. 100% done in a 150 radius, 75% in a 275, 50% in a 400 aoe radius.
4.90 magic damage in a 400 aoe. 100% done in a 150 radius, 75% in a 275, 50% in a 400 aoe radius.

Visual:All the snotter minions explode in a flurry of snot. Snotter Lord exclaims "You're Fired!" Snotter minions make funny death noises. Oldies but goldies include "What about my wife!" and "My spleen!"
__________________________________________________

Deadline
http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/3347/mortitk8.jpg
The Snotter Lord has a deadline to meet and can't waste time fooling around!
For each minion in your workforce, you gain +1/+2/+3/+4 move speed and +3/+4/+5/+6 attack speed. Applies to you and your workforce.

Descriptors: [Passive]

1.+1 move speed and +3 attack speed per Executive Snotter or Snotter Minion.
2.+2 move speed and +4 attack speed per Executive Snotter or Snotter Minion.
3.+3 move speed and +5 attack speed per Executive Snotter or Snotter Minion.
4.+4 move speed and +6 attack speed per Executive Snotter or Snotter Minion.

Balance: Applies an aura that affects only the Snotter Lord and his workforce.

Visual: Green swirls of snotter goo encircle the units on the ground.

__________________________________________________


Ultimate - Promotion
http://img465.imageshack.us/img465/2075/shadowbh4.jpg
The Snotter Lord is happy to reward individual snotters who perform well.
The Snotter Lord promotes a snotter minion to an executive snotter. They gain magic immunity and gain an extra 100/200/300 hp, a stacking 5%/10%/15% attack speed aura, and if the Snotter Lord fires an executive snotter, they deal an additional 50/100/150 damage. Also allows for 1/2/3 additional minions.

Descriptors: [100 mana / 30 second CD ]
Executive Snotters can be promoted with the following:
1.Magic immunity, +100 hp, 5% attack speed aura, and an extra 50 damage if Fired!
Raises the maximum amount of creeps to 6.
2.Magic immunity, +200 hp, 10% attack speed aura, and an extra 100 damage if Fired!
Raises the maximum amount of creeps to 7.
3.Magic immunity, +300 hp, 15% attack speed aura, and an extra 150 damage if Fired!
Raises the maximum amount of creeps to 8.

Balance: Wanted to add something passive for the Snotter Lord other than just buffing his minions. Lets him have a bigger workforce as well to balance out the early game.
Balance2: Removed the passive - not needed.

Visual: The small snotter minions grow in size and change color to showcase their magic immunity. Snotter Lord exclaims "Congratulations, now get back to work!"

-----------------------------

Snotter Minion (Level 1) 250 hp
10-19 damage
2% Movement bonus aura
Active ability: Snotter Huddle!
Active ability: You're Fired! (if leveled up)

Snotter Minion (Level 2) 300 hp
20-29 damage
4% Movement bonus aura
Active ability: Snotter Huddle!
Active ability: You're Fired! (if leveled up)

Snotter Minion (Level 3) 350 hp
30-39 damage
7% Movement bonus aura
Active ability: Snotter Huddle!
Active ability:You're Fired! (if leveled up)

Snotter Minion (level 4) 400 hp
40-49 damage
10% Movement bonus aura
Active ability: Snotter Huddle!
Active ability: You're Fired! (if leveled up)


Snotter Huddle: (No mana 30 second CD, lasts 10 seconds)
The snotter's are unsure how to handle the current situation. They huddle up, reducing incoming melee damage by 75% for 10 seconds, while they decide on a course of action.

[VenomKing]

You had me at "snotter lord"

[likemystyle1]

awesome idead. cause snotters > everything

[Wrecking]

cool idea

[Bali1]

Range on his slow?

[Coltor]

You had me at "snotter lord"

This :D


Also, "Rehire" seems abit overpowered. How hard will they hit? 500 hp at level 1 is alot.

[Tinithor]

Yea i think thats a bit too much HP for a lvl one minion, but other than that i REALLY like the concept of this hero, the first time i saw the snotter creeps it was just so awesome XD, i really hope they make SOME sort of Snotter Hero

[Nidhogg]

I imagine it could be something smallish like 10-15 damage at level 1, 18-24 at level 2, 27-33 at level 3, and 37-44 at level 4. I don't have access to the creep info or damage tables of normal creep waves, but I would keep it so that at max rank they do a little more than normal creep damage at level 4.

They aren't really there for their base damage though, they are there to Fire them, which is the best part.

Edit: Re-did the life totals. 350 is about 7 attacks for a normal hero. I don't want them to just squish to AoE though. Defiler would be bad news for a Snotter Lord until he can promote them.

[Threepwood1]

I like the idea, it's pretty solid, but it's way to overpowered.
You will have to work on those numbers for this to work..

First of all.. The snotters should have a maximum of about.. 300 hp
Say that they'll have
150/200/250/300 hp and with ulti an extra 200/300/400 hp.
And the "bombs" are too good, as they'll cause 540/640/740/840(etc. depending on the amount of executive snotters) dmg at level 9(if you've skilled Rehire, You're Fired and Ulti).
At level 14, when all skills except ulti are maxed, you will then cause at least 760 damage in ONE nuke. That is quite insane seeing as you can raise that damage even more.

As stated: Idea is great, numbers are ****.
Rework the numbers to a more balanced level and add some more information about the snotters by the way. What's their attackdamage, anything specific about their attacks? Slow or so? Seeing as they're made of snot.

- Guybrush Threepwood

[stubob]

good idea! +1

[Toryama]

Skills synergize well with each other, and contributes to ganking and minor team aoe. T-ups on idea, numbers need a bit of reworking.

[Viole]

OH GOD YES

I need someone to do my sewing

[AndrewReily]

like it, but either remove move speed on snotter minions or give both them and the executive a debuff in number.

it's FAR to high.
if your plan was to have the snotters run fast themselves, then give them a high movespeed, like 400 base.

he is a viable hero imo though.

[Nidhogg]

Thanks for the awesome feedback, I updated my original post with some number tweaks and more info on the snotter minions. Please feel free to give feedback or number tweaks, as I fully admit to not being a number guru as far as balance goes. I know I haven't really touched on his base stats. He will need a LOT of mana to keep his conflux of snotters operational though, considering how he has to destroy his workforce each time he wants to do damage.

[Volt]

This wins. Only problem is the snotter creeps would have to be allied to him. :D

[ClownFoot]

thanks a lot maliken, now i need to find someone to do my sewing (maybe? never really was able to make sense of what they were saying)

[Nidhogg]

One thing I guess I haven't made clear - and I guess for balance reasons I'll ask the community - Rehire spawns Snotter minions, which replace any current "snotter minions" as a new workforce. However they won't replace Executive snotters as they are a different unit type. This could technically mean if you never fire your workforce, you could get an obscenely large number of Executive snotters.

I think a # cap would be in order, the only question is how many? Should I cap it at the current minion amount, 6? So you can have at most 6 minion snotters and 6 executive snotters, or should you only be able to have at most 6 snotters, be they executive or minion.

[Threepwood1]

One thing I guess I haven't made clear - and I guess for balance reasons I'll ask the community - Rehire spawns Snotter minions, which replace any current "snotter minions" as a new workforce. However they won't replace Executive snotters as they are a different unit type. This could technically mean if you never fire your workforce, you could get an obscenely large number of Executive snotters.

I think a # cap would be in order, the only question is how many? Should I cap it at the current minion amount, 6? So you can have at most 6 minion snotters and 6 executive snotters, or should you only be able to have at most 6 snotters, be they executive or minion.

A numbercap would be in order indeed, how about.. 8-10 minions in total?
Remember that the executive snotters cause a lot of dmg and if you have too many of them, they'll just be imbalanced.. Sort of like a moveable minefield if you will.
Work on the numbers and decide what you feel is most balanced!

[Sufferr]

I just don´t like that you NEED to get the summoning skill first..
IMO that should change...

and mannn........
SNOTTERS ARE SO FREAKING FUNNY
¨You are fired!¨ and so on rofl..

[Plantagenet]

For the win. I am inordinately pleased by the thought of the Snotter Lord.

[Threepwood1]

I just don´t like that you NEED to get the summoning skill first..
IMO that should change...

and mannn........
SNOTTERS ARE SO FREAKING FUNNY
¨You are fired!¨ and so on rofl..

Well, I agree that too many skills are dependant on the summoning but one would be okay, like with Luna and her ulti.

So how about this: When you pick Rehire, you automatically get "You're fired" as a subspell, sort of like when you get Lanaya's trap or Soulstealer's Shadow Raze?

And then you can create another last spell, for example, why not remove the speedaura on the snotters and give it to the Snotter Lord instead?
Name it: Encouragement, as the Snotter Lord encourages his workers to move/attack faster.

-Guybrush Threepwood

[PsiRedEye22]

This is the most unbelievably good idea in the entire history of HoN hero ideas. S2 would be amazing to implement a summoner hero like this.

[Nidhogg]

That's doable, and makes it so you don't feel like you have to pick between both.

You're Hired / You're Fired seems like a good naming scheme for it.

His 3rd skill can be an aura based on the current workforce size. Up to a max of 8. +4 move speed and attack speed per minion. Makes him incredibly efficient as an autoattacker with his workforce, and less buff without his guys around.

I'd draft it up like this:

You're Hired!
Spawns 5 Snotter minions from a nearby corpse to do your work for you.
You get a subspell "You're Fired!" That is an ability of each snotter minion and a main ability of the Snotter Lord (Think Techie mines... you can individually explode or mass explode).

You are allowed a max of 8 minions at any one time of any type (be it Executive or Minion). If you have 4 executive snotters for example and try to use You're Hired! You'll only get 4 minions instead of 5.

The 3rd passive would be:

Deadline
The Snotter Lord needs things done and done now!
For each minion in your workforce, you gain +1/+2/+3/+4 move speed and +3/+4/+5/+6 attack speed. For a max of 32 move speed and 48 attack speed.

I don't want to make it an aura at this point because that's kind of crazy in team battles. Your snotter minions don't need help catching people, they can have a 350 base move speed and you can slow them with Lord.

[Threepwood1]

That's doable, and makes it so you don't feel like you have to pick between both.

You're Hired / You're Fired seems like a good naming scheme for it.

His 3rd skill can be an aura based on the current workforce size. Up to a max of 8. +4 move speed and attack speed per minion. Makes him incredibly efficient as an autoattacker with his workforce, and less buff without his guys around.

I'd draft it up like this:

You're Hired!
Spawns 5 Snotter minions from a nearby corpse to do your work for you.
You get a subspell "You're Fired!" That is an ability of each snotter minion and a main ability of the Snotter Lord (Think Techie mines... you can individually explode or mass explode).

You are allowed a max of 8 minions at any one time of any type (be it Executive or Minion). If you have 4 executive snotters for example and try to use You're Hired! You'll only get 4 minions instead of 5.

The 3rd passive would be:

Deadline
The Snotter Lord needs things done and done now!
For each minion in your workforce, you gain +1/+2/+3/+4 move speed and +3/+4/+5/+6 attack speed. For a max of 32 move speed and 48 attack speed.

I don't want to make it an aura at this point because that's kind of crazy in team battles. Your snotter minions don't need help catching people, they can have a 350 base move speed and you can slow them with Lord.

Great work man!
Nice name btw, fits in with the hero's style more than Encouragement ;)
And yes, and Aura with those stats would be insane, but it's a great spell for the Snotter Lord itsellf!

Will the minions get the attack and/or movespeed as well or is it for the Snotter lord only?
I think you're really onto something here, let's check out all the numbers and calculate maxdmg etc. for now!
By the way, maybe the ulti should buff the Lord as well in some way? Not some major buff, just something small, so that the hero itself actually benefits from picking promotion. For example, the executive snotters could buff the Lord with about 3/5/7 extra damage per executive snotter?(Adds up to a total of 24/40/56 extra damage with 8 executive snotters)
I'm not sure about those numbers, but it's just a suggestion for now!

-Guybrush Threepwood

Edit: Changed some of the numbers.

[Nidhogg]

I decided on a passive mana regen (at level 16 and a full force of 8 Exec snotters it grants 1.8 mana regen. Not huge, but keeps the mana up for all that hiring and firing he must be doing.

I might change it to something else, or get rid of it entirely. Not sure he really needs it, and it's getting hard to keep track of all the little buffs everyone gets. I don't want him to be a headache to play.

Edit: Oh and if anyone wants to run numbers, please do! I would love if S2 considered this guy as a potential hero.

[ClownFoot]

i like the idea of deadline a lot more. fits with the heroes theme of using his minions and attacking en masse

[FuryClaw]

not bad i like it :D

[Threepwood1]

I decided on a passive mana regen (at level 16 and a full force of 8 Exec snotters it grants 1.8 mana regen. Not huge, but keeps the mana up for all that hiring and firing he must be doing.

I might change it to something else, or get rid of it entirely. Not sure he really needs it, and it's getting hard to keep track of all the little buffs everyone gets. I don't want him to be a headache to play.

Edit: Oh and if anyone wants to run numbers, please do! I would love if S2 considered this guy as a potential hero.

Hmm, 10-4 on that statement man..
I might run the numbers later tonight but if anyone feels like doing it later, no problem! ;P

I'll report in later if I have any questions!

-Guybrush Threepwood

[bittersweets]

If a mod reads this, please change my no vote or remove it, I did it spitefully after a terrible misunderstanding and regret it very much =(

[Threepwood1]

Okay, working some on the numbers but I have a slight problem!
There are no starting-stats in the description!
Anyways, as the gain is:


1.2 - Strength
2.3 - Intellect
0.8 - Agility

(These stats are WAY to low btw)
I've decided to set the starting-stats to:


20 Strength
23 Intellect
16 Agility
42 - 48 Damage
530 Health(150 Base)
299 Mana(0 Base)

At level 6, with the current gain, the stats will be:


27 Strength (27.2)
37 Intellect (36.8)
21 Agility (20.8)
663 Health
481 Mana
56 - 62 Damage

At level 10, with the current gain, the stats will be:


32 Strength
46 Intellect
24 Agility
758 Health
598 Mana
65 - 71 Damage

At level 16:


39 Strength (39.2)
60 Intellect (59.8)
30 Agility (28.8)
891 Health
780 Mana
79 - 85 Damage

And at level 25:


50 Strength
81 Intellect (80.5)
36 Agility
1100 Health
1053 Mana
100 - 106 Damage.

At level 6, with 3 skillpoints in "You're hired/You're fired" and 2 points in "You're late" and 1 in "Promotion" the damage would be something like:
5 Minions, no executive: 400 damage.
5 Minions, 1 executive: 450 damage.
5 Minions, 3 executives: 550 damage.
8 Minions, no executive: 640 damage.
8 Minions, 1 executive: 690 damage.
8 Minions, 3 executives: 790 damage.

And if you add You're late to this, you're "lowest" damage would be a total of 480 and the "highest" around 860 damage.

I've only calculated with a max of 3 executives as you probably won't just hang around and not level to get executives so I supposed that 3 executives would be what you would probably have at most times. Depending on if you're going for kills or if you just want to farm of course!

At level 11, with 1 point in "Deadline", 4 points in "You're Fired/You're Hired", 4 Points in "You're late" and 2 point in "Promotion", the damage would be something like:
6 Minions, no executive: 540 damage.
6 Minions, 2 executives: 740 damage.
6 Minions, 4 executives: 940 damage.
8 Minions, no executive: 720 damage.
8 Minions, 2 executives: 920 damage.
8 Minions, 4 executives: 1120 damage.

This is an incredible amount of damage seeing as we can add the damage from "You're late" which gives our "lowest" damage a total of 660 damage and our "highest" a whopping 1240 damage. (The maxed out damage would actually go up to 1640 damage.)
This is all magic damage though and with Hood of Defiance(Now called Shaman's Headdress), the "highest" damage would be about 820 damage or so. This is still insane.
Anyways, I won't even go into the damage at level 16, I can conclude right now: We need a nerf of the damage and a slight buff of the statgain. at least give the agi about 1.0 - 1.3 in gain, as 0.8 is ridiculous.

Rework the numbers as you wish and tell me again and I'll redo the numbers with you again ;P

-Guybrush Threepwood

Edit: Added starting damage and gain.

Also checked up on Demented Shamans stats at level 6:
25 Strength
44 Intellect
29 Agility
625 Health
572 Mana

We're a bit low in other words.

[Sufferr]

At level 6, with 3 skillpoints in "You're hired/You're fired" and 2 points in "You're late" and 1 in "Promotion" the damage would be something like:
5 Minions, no executive: 400 damage.
5 Minions, 1 executive: 450 damage.
5 Minions, 3 executives: 550 damage.
8 Minions, no executive: 640 damage.
8 Minions, 1 executive: 690 damage.
8 Minions, 3 executives: 790 damage.

And if you add You're late to this, you're "lowest" damage would be a total of 480 and the "highest" around 860 damage.

I've only calculated with a max of 3 executives as you probably won't just hang around and not level to get executives so I supposed that 3 executives would be what you would probably have at most times. Depending on if you're going for kills or if you just want to farm of course!

At level 11, with 1 point in "Deadline", 4 points in "You're Fired/You're Hired", 4 Points in "You're late" and 2 point in "Promotion", the damage would be something like:
6 Minions, no executive: 540 damage.
6 Minions, 2 executives: 740 damage.
6 Minions, 4 executives: 940 damage.
8 Minions, no executive: 720 damage.
8 Minions, 2 executives: 920 damage.
8 Minions, 4 executives: 1120 damage.

This is an incredible amount of damage seeing as we can add the damage from "You're late" which gives our "lowest" damage a total of 660 damage and our "highest" a whopping 1240 damage. (The maxed out damage would actually go up to 1640 damage.)
This is all magic damage though and with Hood of Defiance(Now called Shaman's Headdress), the "highest" damage would be about 820 damage or so. This is still insane.
Anyways, I won't even go into the damage at level 16, I can conclude right now: We need a nerf of the damage and a slight buff of the statgain. at least give the agi about 1.0 - 1.3 in gain, as 0.8 is ridiculous.

Rework the numbers as you wish and tell me again and I'll redo the numbers with you again ;P

-Guybrush Threepwood

HUmm don´t know IMO... summons are complex, for example War Beast´s are OP early and suck late..

I think he should try to make their stats a low % of snotter lord´s, (health, mana bla bla)
this would require a lot of maths for balancing but IMO would be alot better, cause then if u are farmed and item OPed you will be able to own as you should, and if u are weak at items.. well you are weak...

and this makes them not OP early and balanced late..
^^
just some ideas...

[Nidhogg]

Okay, working some on the numbers but I have a slight problem!
There are no starting-stats in the description!
Anyways, as the gain is:


1.2 - Strength
2.3 - Intellect
0.8 - Agi

(These stats are WAY to low btw)
I've decided to set the starting-stats to:


20 Strength
23 Intellect
16 Agi

With a basemana of 0 and a basehealth of 150.
This will result in 530 health and 299 mana at the beginning.

At level 6, with the current gain, the stats will be:


27 Strength (27.2)
37 Intellect (36.8)
21 Agility (20.8)
663 Health
481 Mana

At level 10, with the current gain, the stats will be:


32 Strength
46 Intellect
24 Agility
758 Health
598 Mana

At level 16:


39 Strength (39.2)
60 Intellect (59.8)
30 Agility (28.8)
891 Health
780 Mana

And at level 25:


50 Strength
81 Intellect (80.5)
36 Agility
1100 Health
1053 Mana

At level 6, with 3 skillpoints in "You're hired/You're fired" and 2 points in "You're late" and 1 in "Promotion" the damage would be something like:
5 Minions, no executive: 400 damage.
5 Minions, 1 executive: 450 damage.
5 Minions, 3 executives: 550 damage.
8 Minions, no executive: 640 damage.
8 Minions, 1 executive: 690 damage.
8 Minions, 3 executives: 790 damage.

And if you add You're late to this, you're "lowest" damage would be a total of 480 and the "highest" around 860 damage.

I've only calculated with a max of 3 executives as you probably won't just hang around and not level to get executives so I supposed that 3 executives would be what you would probably have at most times. Depending on if you're going for kills or if you just want to farm of course!

At level 11, with 1 point in "Deadline", 4 points in "You're Fired/You're Hired", 4 Points in "You're late" and 2 point in "Promotion", the damage would be something like:
6 Minions, no executive: 540 damage.
6 Minions, 2 executives: 740 damage.
6 Minions, 4 executives: 940 damage.
8 Minions, no executive: 720 damage.
8 Minions, 2 executives: 920 damage.
8 Minions, 4 executives: 1120 damage.

This is an incredible amount of damage seeing as we can add the damage from "You're late" which gives our "lowest" damage a total of 660 damage and our "highest" a whopping 1240 damage. (The maxed out damage would actually go up to 1640 damage.)
This is all magic damage though and with Hood of Defiance(Now called Shaman's Headdress), the "highest" damage would be about 820 damage or so. This is still insane.
Anyways, I won't even go into the damage at level 16, I can conclude right now: We need a nerf of the damage and a slight buff of the statgain. at least give the agi about 1.0 - 1.3 in gain, as 0.8 is ridiculous.

Rework the numbers as you wish and tell me again and I'll redo the numbers with you again ;P

-Guybrush Threepwood

Your starting stats sound fine - I'll edit that in.

The numbers for the You're Fired is and will be tricky. We could lower it by a flat amount and then late game he turns from an explode-ball micro into an ophelia-esque "minion-man" where his primary damage goes from detonations to buffs and attack speed. I kind of like the idea of having a choice of playing the nuker or the buff guy.

Not sure how to work the damage to reflect this however. I used Slither as a starting point for ult damage, as at max he can do around 800 non-lethal damage to everyone in an aoe. This requires one click however, and microing enough snotters to get in and do damage (and not be killed / aoed etc... as having exec snotters is the only surefire way to not have your fellas die to one swoop of a Pyro) I figure lethality is fine.

I like the bonus damage from Execs, as it is a huge incentive to promote your minions. Maybe make You're Fired! Do less damage in a radius?

Perhaps:
60/70/80/90 in a 100 aoe and 75% of that in a 175 aoe and 50% of that in a 300 aoe (the spells max aoe distance).

So you gotta get your snotters close to do max damage.

Sound fair?

[Nidhogg]

20 Strength + 1.8
23 Intellect + 2.9
16 Agility +1.7

At level 6 Should yield:
31 Str
40 Int
26 Agi

Close to Shaman.

At level 11 it would be:
40 Str
55 Int
35 Agi

[Threepwood1]

Your starting stats sound fine - I'll edit that in.

The numbers for the You're Fired is and will be tricky. We could lower it by a flat amount and then late game he turns from an explode-ball micro into an ophelia-esque "minion-man" where his primary damage goes from detonations to buffs and attack speed. I kind of like the idea of having a choice of playing the nuker or the buff guy.

Not sure how to work the damage to reflect this however. I used Slither as a starting point for ult damage, as at max he can do around 800 non-lethal damage to everyone in an aoe. This requires one click however, and microing enough snotters to get in and do damage (and not be killed / aoed etc... as having exec snotters is the only surefire way to not have your fellas die to one swoop of a Pyro) I figure lethality is fine.

I like the bonus damage from Execs, as it is a huge incentive to promote your minions. Maybe make You're Fired! Do less damage in a radius?

Perhaps:
60/70/80/90 in a 100 aoe and 75% of that in a 175 aoe and 50% of that in a 300 aoe (the spells max aoe distance).

So you gotta get your snotters close to do max damage.

Sound fair?

I also love the idea of having a nuker/buffer as he can both farm quite well or go for nuking and thus getting some earlygame kills!
And question is: How many minions will die if you charge in with all of them? They have 400 hp and are vulnerable to magic as ordinary minions which I think is fine, most heroes will be able to get at least 2 or 3 of them down and probably escape from their lethal explosions but the executives will be harder, which I think is good, if we were to nerf them, Snotter would be worthless. And as you earlier stated: Lethality seems to be fine for now. If not, it can just be edited!

I see what you're getting at here and I like the idea of him causing less damage in an aoe, but then we should increase the aoe itself to around 400 or so to even it out a bit more in teambattles etc.
I like the idea, as it sort of makes sense aswell.. The longer the snot flies, the less damage it causes ;P

I also think the new improved stats are good, I'll redo the health and mana and see how it looks in comparison to Demented Shaman, Puppet Master and Zephyr(Seeing as all of these can go battle and support, which I suppose will be the primary roles of the Snotter, together with pusher.)

-Guybrush Threepwood

[ClownFoot]

would the snotters be timed, or have infinite life time?

[Threepwood1]

would the snotters be timed, or have infinite life time?

As far as I know, infite lifetime(read: until you decide to fire them).
Seeing as if they were timed, would the promotions give them a new timer and in this case: for how long would they be alive etc.

Just a sidenote tho'..
Maybe the cap for how many minions should go up with each level?
Because as it is right now, you will have a quite imba nuke at level 1 - 3.. for example, if you team up with a stunner, you can basically hide your minions away in the forest and then wait for them to push a bit and them: BAM, Stun, Nuke for about 540(at level 1) or 620(at level 3). And if you're level 2 or 3, you could also have put one point in You're late, making this the ultimate firstblood-hero tbh.. a bit too ultimate!

And by the way, when you upgrade the rank of the spell, will the minions automatically be upgraded or will they have to be replaced to be upgraded?
In my opinion, the latter seems to be more fair, as you could just hide away your minions in the forest and wait for your opponents otherwise..

-Guybrush Threepwood

[Excalibur]

Hilarious and I love it, however if it's okay with you, I'd like to leave it here a little longer for further discussion and development. If you object, I'll move it into top as-is, but I feel others may have more input to give at this time.

[Threepwood1]

Hilarious and I love it, however if it's okay with you, I'd like to leave it here a little longer for further discussion and development. If you object, I'll move it into top as-is, but I feel others may have more input to give at this time.

We're still developing it some, so it's fine by me(even though I'm not the creator, I'm just a mere contributer!), and thanks for the great feedback, Lucisama will surely finish it up fine so that you just can't say no! ;)

-Guybrush Threepwood

[Nidhogg]

As far as I know, infite lifetime(read: until you decide to fire them).
Seeing as if they were timed, would the promotions give them a new timer and in this case: for how long would they be alive etc.

Just a sidenote tho'..
Maybe the cap for how many minions should go up with each level?
Because as it is right now, you will have a quite imba nuke at level 1 - 3.. for example, if you team up with a stunner, you can basically hide your minions away in the forest and then wait for them to push a bit and them: BAM, Stun, Nuke for about 540(at level 1) or 620(at level 3). And if you're level 2 or 3, you could also have put one point in You're late, making this the ultimate firstblood-hero tbh.. a bit too ultimate!

And by the way, when you upgrade the rank of the spell, will the minions automatically be upgraded or will they have to be replaced to be upgraded?
In my opinion, the latter seems to be more fair, as you could just hide away your minions in the forest and wait for your opponents otherwise..

-Guybrush Threepwood

I see what you are saying.

Easy fix is you have a cap of 5. Promotion lets you add one more minion to your workforce. So at max rank, you get your 8 minions. At level 6 you control 6 minions. 11 you get 7. 16 you get 8.

It can work like that and I can expand the explosion radius to 400 or so, keeping the 75/50% damage.

So at level 1, you can get at most 5. 5x60= 300, which is fine for a nuke you have to spend lots of mana on (You're Hired twice) AND you have to have a lane partner.

No worse than Swiftblade and a stunner.

Thanks btw for all the help.

Edit: Won't be back till late, but thanks everyone for the contributions / criticisms. We'll get em' polished so he's game worthy :)

[NinjaPants]

Hmm I think the hero has a bit too much forced synergy....not sure though...I think at least his third spell if not his ult as well, should be able to do something if he doesn't have any minions.

This is just a suggestion and you completely ignore it, but what if you switched the 'You're Hired'/'You're Fired!' to his ult and then changed Deadline to just be a buff aura. That way the aura can buff his allies creating synergy with others, and it can also buff his minions, creating synergy with his spells.
I think that the lack of good synergy with others is somewhat detrimental to this otherwise interesting hero.

[Threepwood1]

I see what you are saying.

Easy fix is you have a cap of 5. Promotion lets you add one more minion to your workforce. So at max rank, you get your 8 minions. At level 6 you control 6 minions. 11 you get 7. 16 you get 8.

It can work like that and I can expand the explosion radius to 400 or so, keeping the 75/50% damage.

So at level 1, you can get at most 5. 5x60= 300, which is fine for a nuke you have to spend lots of mana on (You're Hired twice) AND you have to have a lane partner.

No worse than Swiftblade and a stunner.
Thanks btw for all the help.

Edit: Won't be back till late, but thanks everyone for the contributions / criticisms. We'll get em' polished so he's game worthy :)

Great! Seems to be a great fix, well done!
And as you said: It's a great nuke for a lot of mana, seems fair and balanced in my opinion!

Let's continue tomorrow, I'll reply whenever I get home from school, but I think it's not that much left.. just a bit of numbercrunching/calibrating! ^^

And hey, I'm just glad I get to help creating such a fine hero! ;)



Hmm I think the hero has a bit too much forced synergy....not sure though...I think at least his third spell if not his ult as well, should be able to do something if he doesn't have any minions.

This is just a suggestion and you completely ignore it, but what if you switched the 'You're Hired'/'You're Fired!' to his ult and then changed Deadline to just be a buff aura. That way the aura can buff his allies creating synergy with others, and it can also buff his minions, creating synergy with his spells.
I think that the lack of good synergy with others is somewhat detrimental to this otherwise interesting hero.

I see what you're getting at, but making "You're Hired"/"You're Fired" the ultimate leaves us with the question: What about "Promotion"?
And if we were to remove "Promotion", with what kind of skill would we replace it?

If you would come up with something better, I'd take a look at it, but I really like how this hero is supposed to be played and I think Lucisama does too so...
If you have any "concerns" or questions, please tell us so that we can work around those potential problems!
For example, I'm not really sure what you mean with "forced synergy"..
This is how I see the synergy:
"You're late" works great with for example Swiftblade or other chasers as it slows and causes some damage, and it also works great with "You're Fired"/"You're Hired" as it gives the minions the chance to get closer to/escape from the target and either nuke him or just escape.
"Deadline" works with both as it gives Snot Lord the chance to get to his target with the help of "You're late" and it also helps the Snotminions to chase.
Also, "Deadline" helps both the Snot lord and the Snot minions to farm.
And I'm sure you can see where "Promotion" would come in handy here.. ;P
I know you might think that it's sort of bland and that the synergy is only based around 2 things: Nuking and Farming, but some heroes were meant to be played that way. For example, take Keeper of the Forest.. He has about 2 purposes: Skulking around by the trees, waiting to pop his ulti and then pick up a tree and bash the **** out of his enemies.
And scouting, which you could do with a Snotminion if you will.
Anyhow, if you have any questions, feel free to ask.

And if I'm in any way wrong about the synergy, correct me Lucisama! ;P

-Guybrush Threepwood

Edit: If I understood it right, the "Deadline"-skill also buffs his minions, but then again, I might be wrong!

[Bali1]

this deserves a bump

[Rentaromon]

i like it, no objections, 1 change thow:

how about for your hired he lets out a blast around him covering everything in snot, if the unit dies within a short time they become snot minions. Maybe even heroes become executive snotts.

And if they actually say funny stuf when they die its perfect. what do you think of mine?
http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?p=162860#post162860

[Threepwood1]

i like it, no objections, 1 change thow:

how about for your hired he lets out a blast around him covering everything in snot, if the unit dies within a short time they become snot minions. Maybe even heroes become executive snotts.

And if they actually say funny stuf when they die its perfect. what do you think of mine?
http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?p=162860#post162860

Well, that could sort of work, but then again, what would his damage be?
Perhaps about 150 - 200 - 250 -300 so that he could actually kill something with it?

The point I'm trying to make is: You can **** somebody up even more easy if we add another damage-spell, especially an aoe one!
I like the idea but I'm not sure the numbers will work in Snot Lord's advantage, as this would be an insane combo at around level 14, when you can basically nuke someone for about 1940 Magic damage without a problem.

Unless you wanna make the explosion-damage lower, which in the end would just make it difficult for the Snot Lord to get minions, which are a huge part of his gameplay.
If you could figure something out that would work, that'd be fine, but as it is now, we're a bit high on nukes.

-Guybrush Threepwood

[Bonburner]

I love this. Snotter Lord. You got me.
You don't got me at the summon type of play.

Regardless of what happens to him, I just want this hero to be made just for his awesome comments.

[DtMage]

Very nice idea. Didn't like ulti so much, should be something.. more exciting!

[Emiscary]

There's one major problem with this hero:

He's micro-centric, and HoN's engine makes for TERRIBLE micro.

That is all.

[Bracer_Crane]

^ please tell me more about this. I want to know how bad it is D:

[Bonburner]

I agree that HoN that it feels ... awkward to micro ...

[Threepwood1]

Very nice idea. Didn't like ulti so much, should be something.. more exciting!

Feel free to help out with another ulti, if you can! ;P
What you could do is that you let the snotters get upgraded to executive snotters after a number of hits(as with Tempest's elementals), but this still begs the question: What should the ultimate do?

Perhaps it would be more interesting if the ultimate was some kind of Warcry which buffs AS, MS and Damage to those around him, as he is not satisfied with the Minions work, but then again, it's a bit bland and might make the "You're Hired"/"You're Fired" skill too complicated, with the summoning, the upgrading and the minions blowing up and all that.

I can see what you mean with more exciting, I'm just having a hard time putting the exciting-part into words.

Lucisama: If you were to consider another ulti but still want to keep the Executive snotters, you could configure the snotters as the elementals, only that the snotters get upgraded after 10 hits or so.
And if you think that it'd be to imba at the earlier levels, make it so that only snotters of rank 3 or above can get upgraded.


There's one major problem with this hero:

He's micro-centric, and HoN's engine makes for TERRIBLE micro.

That is all.

Well, as the game continues to evolve, I believe that they will improve the microing, even though I'm not sure how the engine is terrible for microing at the moment.
If you could please explain to me as the poor newbie I am, I'd be glad!

-Guybrush Threepwood

[Doikor]

7s 50% slow is way too long. Make it 3/4/5s to make some sence.

[Threepwood1]

7s 50% slow is way too long. Make it 3/4/5s to make some sence.

3/4/5 s and on level 1 or 4 then? 2 or 6? or just keep it 3/4/5 s?

What you could do is just have 3/4/5/5 seconds and then improve the slow like: 30/30/40/50 %

-Guybrush

[Doikor]

What you could do is just have 3/4/5/5 seconds and then improve the slow like: 30/30/40/50 %
-Guybrush

I think that sounds best but it needs a bit of testing to be sure.

[Threepwood1]

I think that sounds best but it needs a bit of testing to be sure.

Agreed, it's not really up to me though, but I'm willing to give that a try, as 7 seconds of 50% slow is quite insane.

-Guybrush Threepwood

[Nidhogg]

Yea, I'm back now - I'll update the front post with some new numbers.

As for the criticisms - they are much appreciated. I know as a general rule you can't please everyone. I'm pretty set on the skills as they are - I like them and they flow real well. Numbers work and I can plan out an item strat and play strat from 1 to 25. I think the skillset (ult included) rounds out the hero. I'm not of the mindset that a creep hero needs at least a skill or ult that lets him be viable "solo" for those who simply don't want to play him to the fullest potential (such as Wildsouls not ranking bear up or Ophelias that never dom creeps). Makes him too convoluted. He has a direction and the skills take him in that direction.

Oh and the You're Hired! ability - I thought about making it a "on creep death" kind of thing, but found that if you cast the spell and no creep died, you'd have to wait a full minute to try again, not a good thing to go "oops" with. Creep corpses are way more sure-fired and keeps gameplay smooth. Plus I don't want to have to balance out yet another aoe nuke. Even if it did no damage, its un-needed animation for basically no effect other than making snotters.

The main nuke/slow he has is a tad long, a number I've been meaning to address.
I like Guybrush's idea as far as numbers go. 3/4/5/5 and 30/30/40/50. We'll go with it.

Thanks to everyone for their help - I figure another day or so of tweaks to numbers and I'll ask Excal to promote it and hopefully get S2's attention.

[Skibbi]

love the concept, not sure on the creeps/powers

[Threepwood1]

Yea, I'm back now - I'll update the front post with some new numbers.

As for the criticisms - they are much appreciated. I know as a general rule you can't please everyone. I'm pretty set on the skills as they are - I like them and they flow real well. Numbers work and I can plan out an item strat and play strat from 1 to 25. I think the skillset (ult included) rounds out the hero. I'm not of the mindset that a creep hero needs at least a skill or ult that lets him be viable "solo" for those who simply don't want to play him to the fullest potential (such as Wildsouls not ranking bear up or Ophelias that never dom creeps). Makes him too convoluted. He has a direction and the skills take him in that direction.

Oh and the You're Hired! ability - I thought about making it a "on creep death" kind of thing, but found that if you cast the spell and no creep died, you'd have to wait a full minute to try again, not a good thing to go "oops" with. Creep corpses are way more sure-fired and keeps gameplay smooth. Plus I don't want to have to balance out yet another aoe nuke. Even if it did no damage, its un-needed animation for basically no effect other than making snotters.

The main nuke/slow he has is a tad long, a number I've been meaning to address.
I like Guybrush's idea as far as numbers go. 3/4/5/5 and 30/30/40/50. We'll go with it.

Thanks to everyone for their help - I figure another day or so of tweaks to numbers and I'll ask Excal to promote it and hopefully get S2's attention.

Great! I really like the hero so far and as soon as it's balanced out, it'll be an awesome addition to HoN!

And as you stated, it'd just be unnecessary ammunition, as it would not be a good thing to go "oops" with. I can imagine having that aoe-spell and then miss with it.. That'd be a real bummer.. ;P

You've done a great work man! Let's hope it gets implemented soon! Was just great to help out, I'll stick around until we get notice of the destiny of this wonderful creation, until then I'll just keep my hopes high! ;P

Is there any other numbers we should go over now, as you can think of? ^^

-Guybrush Threepwood

[Sufferr]

I think I will LOL so much if this hero becomes playble, that I won´t even be able to play when he is around hahaha

(bump)

[Lyconn]

awesome character idea /signed

[Excalibur]

Is there any particular reason recently banned user FiveAces used your topic formatting, icons and all? Or is it coincidental?

[Nidhogg]

I deleted it in my original post, but I used the same template that he used - the one provided by Nome in a stickied topic about how to present a hero. My icons are not original and the image is a bread and butter snotter from the wiki site.

Edit: I guess if someone wanted to make unique icons and a nicely drawn/colored Snotter Lord for me that would be aces, but I expect S2 would do that if he goes the distance =)

[Excalibur]

All right just making sure. Anyway, love the hero, t-up and approve for Top. Congrats.

[Nome]

Is there any particular reason recently banned user FiveAces used your topic formatting, icons and all? Or is it coincidental?

The formatting and icons are from my Deceiver suggestion, which I offered as a template here:
http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?t=10774

=P

[Flem100]

I´m on it as well but I agree with:

[QUOTE=Sufferr;159007]I just don´t like that you NEED to get the summoning skill first..
IMO that should change...


Something must be done I think

[Icebeerg]

i think snooper must be like geomancer in dota

this is amazing. i love it.

[Artic]

Might be nice if Deadline gave you some move and attack speed even when you don't have any minions (it would still give you more for having more minions).

[Nidhogg]

Oh nice, they re-opened the poll.

Artic: Hmm, I don't think it's worth it - I mean when won't you have minions?

[quantum714]

He's already there, Armadon

[Somnolent49]

This is a really amusing concept, and I like all the skill ideas. I do have some balance concerns however.

1.) Why is this hero intelligence based? Thematically it doesn't really seem to fit, I mean he's a little critter that runs around dripping snot. Agility just seems like it would make more sense for him.

2.) If he is going to be intelligence based, then I think his mana costs need to be reworked. As it is, he has a 50 mana snare on a 12 second cooldown, a 50-120 mana summon on a 60(!) second cooldown, a 20 mana AoE nuke on a 20 second cooldown, and a 100 mana creep upgrade with a 30 second cooldown.

Judging by his skills, he is basically going to cast snare on a target, send his snotters in and autoattack until the target is low enough to explode the snotters. Because he will be autoattacking so much, and because his auras give him an attack and move speed boost, he will end up being a ranged int damage dealer along the lines of Puppet master.

By comparison, puppet master has a 195 mana snare with a 14 second cooldown, a 170 mana disable with 24 second cooldown, and a 250 mana ulti with 150 second cooldown. These are the mana requirements that a ranged int dps hero should be balanced towards.

3.) His snare seems a bit too strong. You have two seperate level 4 durations listed, 7 seconds and 5 seconds. I'm going to assume 5 seconds is the correct one and you forgot to change the other numbers. A 50% snare for 5 seconds with 800 range, 60 mana cost, and 12 second cooldown? That is a bit too strong. I would say lower the range significantly, Snotlord has a movespeed bonus already so he should have to get up in the enemies face a bit. Make it 400-500 range. I also feel that either the % snare or the duration need to be tweeked a little bit. The level 1 snare feels just fine, but it scales up a bit too much.

4.) This is a bit more of a flavor criticism than a balance one, but the snotter explosion from You're Fired doesn't feel, well, snotty enough. There should be some small snare component involved, say a 50% snare that fades to 0% over 2-3 seconds, along with a wonderful snot covered effect on the enemy heroes.

5.) I'm not quite sure I understand how the You're Fired skill and the Promotion skill work together. You're Fired says that upon using the skill, it detonates all of your current snotter minions. The Promotion skill says that it upgrades a snotter minion into an executive snotter, which leads me to think that it wouldn't be detonated upon activating the You're Fired skill. The promotion skill however says that the Executive snotters do additional damage upon being detonated. Do executive snotters get detonated in the AoE explosion, or not.

If they do, then the CD on promotion probably needs to be lowered. The 720 damage nuke that a level 4/3 snotter lord would have is huge, so I can't really see a snotter lord wanting to refrain from using his explosion, and it doesn't make sense to put in a skill which incentivizes him not to use it.

To be honest though, I think the snotter executives should not be detonated along with the minions. This leads to Snotlords having to choose between having more minions for their nuke, versus having more executives for their stacking attack speed aura. Two seperate, viable playstyles are thus introduced, and snotlords can mix and match between them a bit. This would also resolve the issue where the You're Fired ability and the Deadline ability don't really mesh. Instantly losing all your bonus movespeed and attack speed when you use your nuke seems a bit too weakening for the snotlord. Being able to drop from 5 minions/3 executives down to just 3 executives, however, would still leave the snotlord with a very sizeable move and attack speed boost.

6.) I'm not quite sure I understand how the promotion skill works. Does it passively increase the creep limit to 6/7/8, or do those increases only come about upon creating a snotter executive? I think going with the former would make a bit more sense to players.

7.) Making the snotter executives completely magic immune feels a bit too powerful. Doing so means that the only real counter to snotlord is a carry with a runed axe, or puppet master, because aoe nukers can't take down snot executives anymore, and that carry will have to run up into melee range and risk getting nuked. While there are other heroes which require someone to buy a specific item to counter them (jereziah and purge come to mind), I don't think it's something you want to actively encourage in the game. The stun immunity of his executives is also troubling.

I do agree that the snotters need to be a bit sturdier to aoe nukers though, so I think that, as a compromise, the executives should get a boost to magic armor. Something along the lines of 5/10/15, which would make them very sturdy against aoe nukes, but still completely susceptible to disables, and possible to nuke down, although it would take quite a few casts to do so.

8.) I want to clarify really quickly how the executive snotters aura works. It says that they have "a stacking 5%/10%/15% attack speed aura". Does this simply mean that it stacks with the snotlord's deadline aura, or that the aura stacks with itself, meaning if you have 3 snot executives you have 45% attack speed. I'm assuming that the former is true, as if the latter was true it would be ridiculously unbalanced. If so, you might want to change the flavor text to indicate that.

9.) The Snotter lord gains .3% mana regen with a snotter executive out at level 3. This is either way too low, or way too high. If .3% mana regen is being used in the same way that 50% mana regen from a scarab is, then it's a piddling amount. If, however, it's being used to mean .3% of MAX mana in regeneration, like the behemoth's heart, then it's a bit too much.

A snotlord built as an int dps hero will easily be breaking 1400 mana by level 16, which means he's getting an additional 4.2 mana per second, or 252 mana per minute. The snotlord, if he casts his abilities as often as possible, will be spending 640 mana per minute, or 10.6 mana per second, but that is pretty unrealistic as it would require him to be casting his snare every 12 seconds nonstop for 60 seconds straight, as well as promoting a new executive every 30 seconds, which is also a bit unlikely. A more reasonable number is 400 mana per minute, or 6.6 per second, which a snotlord with a hellflower is definitely already going to be regenerating well beyond.

If either the mana costs are raised, or the hero is changed to agi instead of intelligence, then the .3% number might become a bit more reasonable, but it seems like it would make balancing out the heroes mana costs way too much of a headache for the devs. Better I think to simply remove the .3% mana regen and just tweak mana costs and int growth to compensate, as the mana regen doesn't really seem very important to the concept anyway.

10.) With point 9 in mind, I propose a replacement for the mana regen. Give the snotter executives a magic armor aura which applies only to the lord and the workforce. Something along the lines of +1 armor per executive. That would necessitate tweaking the earlier magic armor numbers I proposed so that the executives weren't too hard to nuke, but would also help alleviate the weakness of the minions versus nukers.

11.) The snotter minions seem a little bit too weak at level 4. 400 health means that they will pop in 2 spells, and pretty much any aoe nuker will be able to wipe out the lord's minions instantaneously, getting a huge chunk of gold and xp. I'd suggest looking at the numbers on Ophelia's dominated creeps to get an idea of necessary health levels to be able to stay in combat for any duration, particularly beyond level 12 or so. Perhaps make the promotion ultimate passively boost the health of all minions.


I'm sorry for the giant wall of text i've created here, I hope you take the time to read my suggestions. I think this hero has alot of promise, which is why i'm taking the time to write this stuff at all, rather than just dismiss it as unworkable and move on like I do with most of the hero suggestions that get made.

[Nidhogg]

This is a really amusing concept, and I like all the skill ideas. I do have some balance concerns however.

1.) Why is this hero intelligence based? Thematically it doesn't really seem to fit, I mean he's a little critter that runs around dripping snot. Agility just seems like it would make more sense for him.

1.a) He is the brains of the operation, the "king" snotter, and as such he is pretty much the only intelligent snotter out there. Int just seems to fit, and his spells SHOULD be costing a bit to cast, based on frequency, not just individual mana cost.


2.) If he is going to be intelligence based, then I think his mana costs need to be reworked. As it is, he has a 50 mana snare on a 12 second cooldown, a 50-120 mana summon on a 60(!) second cooldown, a 20 mana AoE nuke on a 20 second cooldown, and a 100 mana creep upgrade with a 30 second cooldown.

Judging by his skills, he is basically going to cast snare on a target, send his snotters in and autoattack until the target is low enough to explode the snotters. Because he will be autoattacking so much, and because his auras give him an attack and move speed boost, he will end up being a ranged int damage dealer along the lines of Puppet master.

By comparison, puppet master has a 195 mana snare with a 14 second cooldown, a 170 mana disable with 24 second cooldown, and a 250 mana ulti with 150 second cooldown. These are the mana requirements that a ranged int dps hero should be balanced towards.

2.a) I thought I had originally done this already - reasonable mana costs are definitely in order. I had removed the cost of Your Fired! and upped everything else. I'll go over them all again. As a quick run down though:

1st Skill = 90/110/130/150, basically paying mana for an extra second per level.
2nd Skill = Flat 100 mana for all 4 ranks. / You're Fired! is no mana cost, which prevents weird interactions with the Lord being dead and the minions alive and detonating them.
3rd Skill = Passive
Ult = You want this to be a big cost spell because of the huge benefits you get casting it. 100/150/200.


3.) His snare seems a bit too strong. You have two seperate level 4 durations listed, 7 seconds and 5 seconds. I'm going to assume 5 seconds is the correct one and you forgot to change the other numbers. A 50% snare for 5 seconds with 800 range, 60 mana cost, and 12 second cooldown? That is a bit too strong. I would say lower the range significantly, Snotlord has a movespeed bonus already so he should have to get up in the enemies face a bit. Make it 400-500 range. I also feel that either the % snare or the duration need to be tweeked a little bit. The level 1 snare feels just fine, but it scales up a bit too much.

3.a) 5 seconds is the right duration. Range can def. be tweaked to be reasonable. 400 is less than his normal autoattack range, tried to keep them synergized.


4.) This is a bit more of a flavor criticism than a balance one, but the snotter explosion from You're Fired doesn't feel, well, snotty enough. There should be some small snare component involved, say a 50% snare that fades to 0% over 2-3 seconds, along with a wonderful snot covered effect on the enemy heroes.
4.a) I definitely agree, I hope the messy explosion will be goo filled and bring out the giggles you get from killing the snot pack at the easy neut spawn. As far as a snare - not really needed - or I should say if it was added their inherent movespeed would have to be reduced.



5.) I'm not quite sure I understand how the You're Fired skill and the Promotion skill work together. You're Fired says that upon using the skill, it detonates all of your current snotter minions. The Promotion skill says that it upgrades a snotter minion into an executive snotter, which leads me to think that it wouldn't be detonated upon activating the You're Fired skill. The promotion skill however says that the Executive snotters do additional damage upon being detonated. Do executive snotters get detonated in the AoE explosion, or not.

If they do, then the CD on promotion probably needs to be lowered. The 720 damage nuke that a level 4/3 snotter lord would have is huge, so I can't really see a snotter lord wanting to refrain from using his explosion, and it doesn't make sense to put in a skill which incentivizes him not to use it.

To be honest though, I think the snotter executives should not be detonated along with the minions. This leads to Snotlords having to choose between having more minions for their nuke, versus having more executives for their stacking attack speed aura. Two seperate, viable playstyles are thus introduced, and snotlords can mix and match between them a bit. This would also resolve the issue where the You're Fired ability and the Deadline ability don't really mesh. Instantly losing all your bonus movespeed and attack speed when you use your nuke seems a bit too weakening for the snotlord. Being able to drop from 5 minions/3 executives down to just 3 executives, however, would still leave the snotlord with a very sizeable move and attack speed boost.


Basically it works like this:

When you promote a snotter minion it kills that current minion and spawns an executive snotter under your control as a replacement. It has the same functionality of the snotter minions (being able to huddle and get fired) in addition to passive bonuses to attack speed and magic immunity, and increased HP. It also deals additionally damage when fired.

So basically you turn a small stick of TNT into a larger more durable stick of TNT, that helps you farm lanes and then when the time is right, sacrifices himself for the greater snot glory by being fired on top of a bunch of enemies.


6.) I'm not quite sure I understand how the promotion skill works. Does it passively increase the creep limit to 6/7/8, or do those increases only come about upon creating a snotter executive? I think going with the former would make a bit more sense to players.

6.a) Passively increases the cap by 1 at level 6, 2 at level 11, and 3 at level 16, for a max of 8 minions total. The increase comes by putting a point in the skill, not making a snotter exec.



7.) Making the snotter executives completely magic immune feels a bit too powerful. Doing so means that the only real counter to snotlord is a carry with a runed axe, or puppet master, because aoe nukers can't take down snot executives anymore, and that carry will have to run up into melee range and risk getting nuked. While there are other heroes which require someone to buy a specific item to counter them (jereziah and purge come to mind), I don't think it's something you want to actively encourage in the game. The stun immunity of his executives is also troubling.

I do agree that the snotters need to be a bit sturdier to aoe nukers though, so I think that, as a compromise, the executives should get a boost to magic armor. Something along the lines of 5/10/15, which would make them very sturdy against aoe nukes, but still completely susceptible to disables, and possible to nuke down, although it would take quite a few casts to do so.

7.a) I've been thinking about this and the unsynergystic way execs work with their lesser minions. How about a removal of the % attack speed, and replace it with a stacking passive magic armor bonus? The idea is that late game snotter minions are pretty fragile, hell early game a pyro can be a great counterpick to them, but you dont want to be discouraged from making them - so when you can start promoting them you get more passive magic armor bonuses. This will not make them completely broken and make magmus or behemoth cry, but will keep their viability.

What do you think?



8.) I want to clarify really quickly how the executive snotters aura works. It says that they have "a stacking 5%/10%/15% attack speed aura". Does this simply mean that it stacks with the snotlord's deadline aura, or that the aura stacks with itself, meaning if you have 3 snot executives you have 45% attack speed. I'm assuming that the former is true, as if the latter was true it would be ridiculously unbalanced. If so, you might want to change the flavor text to indicate that.

8.a) It wouldn't be stacking - think minotaur auras. Ophiela can have 3 minos but only 15% attack speed.



9.) The Snotter lord gains .3% mana regen with a snotter executive out at level 3. This is either way too low, or way too high. If .3% mana regen is being used in the same way that 50% mana regen from a scarab is, then it's a piddling amount. If, however, it's being used to mean .3% of MAX mana in regeneration, like the behemoth's heart, then it's a bit too much.

A snotlord built as an int dps hero will easily be breaking 1400 mana by level 16, which means he's getting an additional 4.2 mana per second, or 252 mana per minute. The snotlord, if he casts his abilities as often as possible, will be spending 640 mana per minute, or 10.6 mana per second, but that is pretty unrealistic as it would require him to be casting his snare every 12 seconds nonstop for 60 seconds straight, as well as promoting a new executive every 30 seconds, which is also a bit unlikely. A more reasonable number is 400 mana per minute, or 6.6 per second, which a snotlord with a hellflower is definitely already going to be regenerating well beyond.

If either the mana costs are raised, or the hero is changed to agi instead of intelligence, then the .3% number might become a bit more reasonable, but it seems like it would make balancing out the heroes mana costs way too much of a headache for the devs. Better I think to simply remove the .3% mana regen and just tweak mana costs and int growth to compensate, as the mana regen doesn't really seem very important to the concept anyway.

I agree the mana gain is wonky - it was something to put on the ult that directly impacts the Lord as opposed to strictly his minions. Not sure if it "adds too much" to the ult, making it confusing. Any help would be appreciative on it, because currently all his skills except deadline and his snare help his minions. Which isn't bad - that's what his playstyle is, but does he need candy to go with his ult? Or should his minions get all the goodies.



10.) With point 9 in mind, I propose a replacement for the mana regen. Give the snotter executives a magic armor aura which applies only to the lord and the workforce. Something along the lines of +1 armor per executive. That would necessitate tweaking the earlier magic armor numbers I proposed so that the executives weren't too hard to nuke, but would also help alleviate the weakness of the minions versus nukers.

10.a) I took this in mind when I answered Q 7 or 8...




11.) The snotter minions seem a little bit too weak at level 4. 400 health means that they will pop in 2 spells, and pretty much any aoe nuker will be able to wipe out the lord's minions instantaneously, getting a huge chunk of gold and xp. I'd suggest looking at the numbers on Ophelia's dominated creeps to get an idea of necessary health levels to be able to stay in combat for any duration, particularly beyond level 12 or so. Perhaps make the promotion ultimate passively boost the health of all minions.

11.a) I like the passive boost to all minions, but then part of the idea is you want to promote your minions to execs. There is no drawback to having more and more execs. And they get more HP.



I'm sorry for the giant wall of text i've created here, I hope you take the time to read my suggestions. I think this hero has alot of promise, which is why i'm taking the time to write this stuff at all, rather than just dismiss it as unworkable and move on like I do with most of the hero suggestions that get made.

Thank you so much for the critique, - read and reply back, I want this hero to happen :)

[willtsay]

excellent, hugely unique, although should he really be an int hero? (although i suppose if his stat alignment was str or agi he'd be imba xP

that and the .3% mana buff seems unneeded?? its not like he has high spam rate spells (aside from slow, that might be used twice in a team battle xP

EDIT: my bad didn't read carefully .3% mana for executive snotters xD

maybe give snotters more spell resist on promotion to being executive? eh just a thought cuz visage's revenants have spell resist :)

EDIT: FFFUUUU- Damnit fail reading once again. they haz teh magick immune

[TrueLolzor]

Support.

[ImpBloody]

Should synergize well with bristleback as your partner =P

[totsuki]

I like the thematic idea, but overall it just seems like too much micro for my tastes. unless people find that fun, in which case go for it.

[sailorpallas]

i can think of only one problem...

everyone would want to choose him because of how awesome he is

[Evergoth]

How could I vote no to the murlocs of HoN?
After balancing I'm sure I would love it

[Democatai]

this sounds lika a great fun indeed :)

who dosen´t want to send there snotters after ppl ? ^^

raawr ! more snotters to the ppl ! =)

[Wraiven]

This had me lol'ing no joke. Love the concept and skill names haha.

[Zaknafain]

Awesome skills, this would be so fun to play! I really hope that this will be included at some point!

[Nidhogg]

Nome! Save my hero =O

[Skyve]

Seems a lot fun to play to me. Maybe the first skill should have a bit more damage ~200 imo.

[Forseti1]

Love the concept. Numbers are looking pretty good, but can always be reworked. I think the concept is most important. Devs can take care of the rest.

[Zaknafain]

So i read it again and again, and thought about it, and there are some crucial numbers missing (which probably could only be settled by testing this ingame):
Whats the base movementspeed of the snotter minions?
How big are they?
Whats the range of that slow?

I really love this concept but if I imagine playing it they'd have to be pretty fast and small, else it would take forever to gank someone because the snotterminions would block themselves to much.

Also can they keep up with the snotterlord once he got boots? (if not this would be really annoying)

It would also be helpfull if "firing" could be set on autocast on individual snotters.

Another suggestion: The ultimate could improve the "your late" skill so that you can now cast it on allies as well who will gain more movementspeed from it. That way you could chase with a single snotter and it would also give you a little more synergy with other heroes.

Other than that: this is the best Hero suggestion in the forum!

[jay`t]

no real feedback, but man this is a great idea

[Kalamadorel]

I really like the idea but some of the numbers seem to be a little bit off, also I was wondering if you could have more than a set number of executives at a time because if so at level 16 you would be able to set off a 1920 damage nuke if you had it set up correctly. I'm having nightmares about my entire team being wiped out by a group of snotters. Obviously the numbers are subject to change so other than this the hero seems awesome.

[Vazl]

As many thumbs up as I can give you :)

Why isn't this in the game yet?

[GGreenBass]

Dude, this character will bring a whole new meaning to Creep Blocked. Imo, Having all 5 of those abilities is a little too much, regardless of the fact that the Fired/Hired is all one thing. I think the movement speed should be scrapped, and the You're Hired! Should be a passive that activates every time you're within range of a creep kill, not just heroes (you aren't very specific about that). His first ability takes a step away from ridiculousness, but we don't want a copy of Armadon's snot thing, do we? I want this hero in, but he needs quite a bit of tweaking first.

My recommendation for the first ability would be a ranged nuke with a small channel time and a large cooldown, and it doesn't do much damage but depending on it's level can have a large radius of slowed opponents. That would make him a great initiator, and so long as he doesn't do too much damage that'll keep him balanced- and back to his lane pushing.

[Sir_Josh]

The only suggestion is that unless micro is improved greatly, that the snotter minions are AI controlled and have several commands.

1) Scout - Selected snotter moves to a location and holds that position for a certain amount of time.

2) Attack - Selected snotter goes on a rampage with increased DPS but lower health.

3) Defend - Same as above, but backwards!

[Thaeron]

Original content right there! I love it! It would be so awesome to have this Hero in game...

[Edro]

The biggest question is if i use an item to take control of one of the NPC snotters will i be able to blow him up =) plz say yes lol.

[Edro]

what would be also great would be a character that works like any of the characters in Dragon ball z... or any other fam anime....

[weaselciuy]

yuukkk

[Blet1]

every game needs a lol hero , in dota we have techies in hon we have this ?
thumbs up :D

[Lumidria]

Great idea for a hero.
Although I don't see how he would be valid late game.
Seems to work a bit like Ophelia, who is also quite useless end-game compared to other heros.
just my personal opinion.

Also Techies was amazing if you knew how to use him.

[SoerenRyge]

Genius pure genius, we love snotters! And great completing the boss concept of them =)

Do want.

Godlike.

MO4R.

[tobsecret]

looks good

Ah, make the taunt "Go on, try and sue me"
On success "There's your early retirement plan! YOU'RE FIRED!"

Give this guy a pimp hat and beat people with a suit case as well, hell yeah!

YOU KNOW YOU LIKE THESE SUGGESTIONS. QUOTE ME BECAUSE YOU AGREE. YOU BUMP THE GODLY THREAD AT THE SAME TIME.

[ISuckRealBad]

Ah, make the taunt "Go on, try and sue me"
On success "There's your early retirement plan! YOU'RE FIRED!"

Give this guy a pimp hat and beat people with a suit case as well, hell yeah!

YOU KNOW YOU LIKE THESE SUGGESTIONS. QUOTE ME BECAUSE YOU AGREE. YOU BUMP THE GODLY THREAD AT THE SAME TIME.

LAWL! sounds good ...

[Satyrael]

king of all hero suggestions

[`Annatar]

Excellent idea :)

[archkyle]

brilliant

[PeterLance]

I think this would be an excellent addition to the creep control/secondary character heroes already in HoN, (ophelia, wild soul, hellbringer, etc), and this one brings something fresh to the table. Thumbs up.

Also, it made me laugh. The idea of controlling a snotter boss - sorry, lord - is pretty funny.

I think this would be an excellent addition to the creep control/secondary character heroes already in HoN, (ophelia, wild soul, hellbringer, etc), and this one brings something fresh to the table. Thumbs up.

Also, it made me laugh. The idea of controlling a snotter boss - sorry, lord - is pretty funny.

They already have Skeleton King as a creep.

[ThePope]

Sweet! A minion-based hero that doesn't need to piss-around in the jungle every five minutes like Ophelia.

[ILikePie]

You need to rework the skill names... Make it sound more disgusting!

[Zeitdruck]

You need to rework the skill names... Make it sound more disgusting!

the skill names are just perfect! listen to the snotters when jungling, maybe you'll get it then.

thumbs up & bump the genious thread!
i'm really astonished... reading all those hero suggestions for the first time, my my are there ingenious ideas among'em.

peace!

[ViciousJawa]

we need him now!

[Tajak]

cool as hell

[wikked]

Snotter Lord - let's hire him on as a HON hero.

(We can always fire him later if things don't work out.)

[Akuild]

i like it...lol

[`Abra`]

Great hero concept. The only thing is the snotters should be kinda like Archer skulls imo and if they are they need little less health.

[SexyRanger_]

LOVELY!!! got my vote, its balanced (maybe the great quantity of snotters will make it a little op), it takes all hon facts on its design and its a SNOTTER!! votex8416456 :3

I would make the first skill give the vision of the atacked character, so it would be a better chasing skill, a chase-and die balanced character indeed :3 it should totaly be in the game.

[Ouncy]

yeh awsome, it would be an awsome hero 2 play cause of the unique skills and a squad of snooters seems epic

[Psyal]

wheres maliken. i need someone to do my sewing

[XeenWoozy]

Very nice

[L`ANANAS1]

i pick ophelia only to control a snotter boss.

T-Up

[xXQuatchiXx]

one thing when you play snotter lord what happens when he meets snotters in the jungle?

[Nidhogg]

S2 should publish muh hero :(

[ChillyWater]

I like it... But won't his minions get killed in one shot?

[Merricks_Cat]

nono

[zOle`]

8/10

[smallbluedot]

I'm a lore nut, so it confuses me that he's a hellbourne hero who apparently used to be in charge of the legion's infrastructure.

[Muggins]

This hero's skillset and design are inheritly both humourous and well-thought.

His skills are simple, synergize well and provide him with good footing as (ideally, though he could be played as a jungler) a laning hero, using his creeps and his slow to provide early ganks as a ganker, likely on the sidelane, and even going on to push with them as the game progresses. His creeps are meatier versions of Slither's wards, but to counteract that they make up the majority of this hero's skillset.

As for the humour, well - they're Snotters, and their serious, grumpy attitudes make such a delightful contrast to the rest of Newerth, with their lines only adding another layer of quirkiness to create a bizzare sense of humour. My mind keeps relating them to the Glukkons from the Oddworld series, somehow - probably because of the relations in their style of humour.

The only problem I can see with this hero is that he might be somewhat indistinguishable from the snotter creeps from the jungle - however, this could be solved with the addition of suits and more developed bodies to these snotters, and perhaps a hat and/or suitcase for the Big Boss (Erm, Snotter Lord). Just enough of a change to make them stick out, but not enough to separate them from the rest of their race. There's also the fact that the Snotter Lord is classified as Hellbourne despite his background, though that could simply be because he views the Hellbourne as more powerful and wealthy allies (likely the target for a corporate takeover in the future, mind you).

+1, Bravo, and good work.

[foul_beast]

i say YES to this hero, make the snotter lord with like a top hat or something and the underlings with black suite cases, like mafia crew XD

[Gwydion]

Good stuff! I approve!

[Nidhogg]

Someone should Dream my hero, since I'm too busy to :( Thanks for the support, still think the Snotter Lord needs to grace Newerth!

[AceFiend]

Yeeeessssssssssss Snotter MAFIOOOSSOOO

[zajoman]

Thank you, you gave me good long laughs. Great sense of humour. :)

[DarkWatcher]

Ok so why is this hero not in newerth yet?

[Wesburl]

BUMP! I would pay money for this, without a doubt.

[R0XAS]

Bump... Because of...


I'm all for a certain Lord of Snots being made =P

Mr Nidhogg. What's the meaning of this? Give me a sign!

[LuckyNumbers]

Workforce... LOL!

[JimmyRaynor]

Bump... Because of...



Mr Nidhogg. What's the meaning of this? Give me a sign!

I saw that too... I WAS BLIND BUT NOW I SEE. SNOTTER IS WHERE HON SHOULD BE!

[_Atrium_]

First time seeing this, implement it.
All I have to say, since all the work is ALREADY DONE S2!!!
=P

[LuckyNumbers]

This has 603 ****ing upvotes. Enough for you yet S2? Or should we get to 1000?

[Wololo]

Closed! I like the concept though

[HectorB]

can't you just ask the other S2 people to consider your hero since your s2, I don't know how this works but aren't most hon unique heroes made by S2 members. Does your position help you get the hero in the game?