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ElementUser

08-17-2009, 10:01 AM

Disclaimer: This guide is specifically written for the Forest of Caldavar map in a 5v5, non-Casual mode setting. The jungle walkthrough is available for both Legion and Hellbourne.

Introduction

Stripped of his beard (and therefore, most of his manliness) from his DotA Counterpart (Axe), Legionnaire has to make do with most of the changes in gameplay from DotA to HoN. His main role is to tank for the team while also dishing out tons of damage when enemies attack him. Legionnaire is a decent laner, but I'm going to focus on how to jungle Legionnaire in this guide. There are several differences that are now ported from DotA to HoN:

+ Creep respawn checkboxs are now smaller (you can pull creeps a little bit later and still make it in time to stack the camp)
+ Dark Troll Warlord creep camp replaced with weak Skeletons (can tackle them earlier on for great experience and gold)
- No more Berserker's Call/Taunt functionality on neutrals (cannot manipulate their AI anymore)

Why jungle Legionnaire?

It gives you 2 solo lanes
You get guaranteed gold income & don't have to focus on those tedious last-hits and denies
If done properly, you'll level up just as fast as a solo lane
You get gold very quickly

As Legionnaire, you should jungle only if the following conditions are met:

Legionnaire is the only jungler on your team
You know the basics of jungling
You have 2 good solo heroes that can take care of themselves early game

http://img709.imageshack.us/img709/1385/legionnaire.jpg

Axe is a hero with a theme based on judo. When somebody attacks him he gets all pissed off and proceed to kick ass until he dies from the amount of blows he has taken. I plan to exploit that.

Skill Overview

(See this link for detailed information: http://honwiki.net/wiki/Legionnaire)

Taunt: What's left of Axe's manliness is now transferred to this skill. Instead of doing a loud, manly roar like Berserker's Call, Legionnaire does some weak Taunt shout. Regardless, this skill is useful for chasing, ganking, initiating and tanking all at the same time! Just note that it has a VERY TINY AoE, so anyone with an IQ above 50 wouldn't let you run up to him and Taunt him. Therefore it's best to use this skill when coming from behind, chain it after an allied disable or use it after Portal Key. Goes through magic immunity.

Oh and a fun fact that can be used to your advantage (from Mittsies' Guide to Abusing Ability Sounds):

LEGIONNAIRE: [Excellent] Taunt - Creates "RAAHHGGHH" sound and makes you glow gold. EXTREMELY ANNOYING! :D

http://img375.imageshack.us/img375/2563/legotaunt.jpg

Terrifying Charge: Low mana-cost, a 30s cooldown with a pretty decent debuff that scales later on since it lowers damage and increases attackspeed by a percentage. Note that the easiness of an enemy canceling the skill hinders Terrifying Charge's chance of success at lower levels due to the very low movespeed bonus, so be wary about that. This skill also does a large amount of damage (150%/200%/250%/300%) Physical damage in a small AoE, so it is quite a powerful nuke as well. Movespeed bonus is substantial at levels 3 and 4 (+140 and +522) so it is generally a good idea to max it early on.

In memory of the old (unmanly) Terrify skill, by the wise words of thisisBob:

Battle Hunger is here to take up space and **** you up. Learning Battle Hunger detracts your manliness. Learning Battle Hunger will also make Axe start listening to Vanilla Ice and let his mom cut his hair.

Whats this? A 25 second duration damage spell? Women wait, pussies wait, morons wait, but not Axe. This is Icefrog's trap to turn Axe from a complete melee psycho into a hiding wuss.

Battle Hunger is a damage-over-time skill with a easy-to-achieve precondition. It tempt opponents into hitting creeps so that Axe can run in and chop him up. Unfortunately, even with the buffed mana cost and cooldown, Axe cannot use this effectively if he still wants space to do Berserker Call, Culling Blade and Blink Dagger.

Furthermore, unlike other DoTs, Battle Hunger doesn't have a secondary side effect such as slow or silence. It lasts too long for it to become effective and team fights and unlike other nukes, I find it only to be useful for 1/4 of the game.

Thus, this strategy guide does not require Axe to learn Battle Hunger.

Whirling Blade: The skill that defines Axe and Legionnaire. Luckily, Legionnaire didn't lose any of his manliness from this skill port. Anyway, Whirling Blade is what lets you jungle in the first place, not to mention making enemies fear to attack you. The more units that are attacking you, the more Legionnaire will own face. Not as good late-game since it's physical damage, but it's still an awesome skill.

Know that it procs at the beginning of the enemy's attack animation, and not after the projectile hits you.

http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/8018/legospin.jpg

Decapitate: Instead of purging the weak from Axe's sight, Legionnaire gets to hack off someone's head when using this skill. Not a bad change I guess. Use decapitate to finish off low HP heroes, but if you know for sure that an enemy is going to die in one of your ganks, don't killsteal with this skill. The skill has a pretty low cooldown though, so don't hesitate to use it either. Great finisher because it goes through Accursed's annoying ultimate and through magic immunity.

Skill Builds

- New Cookie-Cutter Legionnaire:

1. Whirling Blade
2. Terrifying Charge
3. Terrifying Charge
4. Taunt/Whirling Blade
5. Terrifying Charge
6. Decapitate
7. Terrifying Charge
8. Whirling Blade]/Taunt
9. Taunt/Whirling Blade
10. Taunt/Whirling Blade
11. Decapitate
12. Taunt
13. Whirling Blade/Taunt
14. Whirling Blade/Taunt
15. Stats
16. Decapitate
17-25. Stats

Justification: First point in Whirling Blade for jungle capabilities & offensive usage. Second point in Terrifying Charge for early aid in jungling. Max Charge ASAP while getting a level of Taunt in level 4. Whirling Blade is easily your 1-point wonder, but you can get more as necessary (getting too much early on will hinder you though).

Item Build

Starting Items
http://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/0/05/Iron_Buckleritem.gif/60px-Iron_Buckleritem.gifhttp://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/0/05/Iron_Buckleritem.gif/60px-Iron_Buckleritem.gifhttp://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/0/09/Runes_of_the_Blightitem.gif/64px-Runes_of_the_Blightitem.gif (590) or http://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/0/05/Iron_Buckleritem.gif/60px-Iron_Buckleritem.gif http://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/0/09/Runes_of_the_Blightitem.gif/64px-Runes_of_the_Blightitem.gifhttp://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/e/ec/Monkey_Courieritem.gif/60px-Monkey_Courieritem.gifhttp://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/b/bb/Minor_Totemitem.gif/60px-Minor_Totemitem.gif (593)

2x Iron Buckler + Runes of the Blight or Iron Buckler + Runes of the Blight + Monkey Courier + Minor Totem

You'll require damage reduction right from the start to make use of Whirling Blade straight away from level 1 no matter what. Putting 1-2 Iron Bucklers on Legionnaire is the most cost-efficient method for protection early in the game. 1 set of Runes of the Blight is taken for potential double creep-stacking (more info on that later) and provides you with a little bit of HP regeneration.

If your support teammates are too stingy/selfish to purchase a Courier for the team, purchase one yourself (follow the second option for starting items) - you will need that Courier.

Items During the Jungling Phase

http://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/4/4c/Health_Potionitem.gif/60px-Health_Potionitem.gif
Healing Potion (100)

Normally you'll consume ~2 healing potions until you acquire your Lifetube, so have the Courier fetch you those when you're low on HP (or before you get low on HP). Take as many as you need (2-3 is enough for most games).

http://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/0/05/Iron_Buckleritem.gif/60px-Iron_Buckleritem.gif
Iron Buckler (250)

Just make sure you have 2 of these in your inventory at some point between levels 1-6.

http://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/d/de/Lifetubeitem.gif/60px-Lifetubeitem.gif
Lifetube (875)

The item that will immensely help you stay in the jungle. If you're tackling some intensely stacked camps though (4 times or more), Healing Potions will be better, though you'll need this for your Helm of the Black Legion later.

http://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/7/7d/Marchersitem.gif/60px-Marchersitem.gif
Marchers (500)

Gives Legionnaire more mobility to move from camp to camp faster.

http://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/b/b1/Ward_of_Sightitem.gif/60px-Ward_of_Sightitem.gif
Wards of Sight (100)

If the enemies gank you in the jungle, invest in a of Ward of Sight to avoid them (and to gain vision of bottom rune). Only do this if your support teammates are too stingy to buy some for you.

Core Items

http://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/f/f4/Helm_of_the_Black_Legionitem.gif/60px-Helm_of_the_Black_Legionitem.gif
Helm of the Black Legion (2225)

http://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/6/66/Bottleitem.gif/60px-Bottleitem.gifBottle (600) / http://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/f/fd/Power_Supplyitem.gif/60px-Power_Supplyitem.gifPower Supply (546)

http://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/2/2a/Ghost_Marchersitem.gif/60px-Ghost_Marchersitem.gif Ghost Marchers (1500) /http://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/b/bd/Plated_Greavesitem.gif/60px-Plated_Greavesitem.gifPlated Greaves (1303)

http://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/6/6e/Portal_Keyitem.gif/60px-Portal_Keyitem.gifPortal Key (2150)

After acquiring Lifetube, you'll have a lot of flexibility to get your core items. I'll discuss each item individually with respect to the type of Legionnaire you are playing.

Helm of the Black Legion: This doesn't have to be fully completed right away but rather when you feel you need the defensive boost of HP/block.

Bottle/Power Supply: If you want to have a secure source of mana regeneration, buy a Bottle. This also helps your mid hero if he is having trouble getting runes; Bottle is also good if your mid hero can spare you a useful rune to gank (Invis/Haste) or to aid your jungling even further (DD/Regen/Illusion). Power Supply is also an amazing alternative pickup. It gives less reliable mana regeneration but it's better for teamfights as you'll be in the middle of combat most of the time.

Ghost Marchers vs. Plated Greaves:

Ghost Marchers offer an amazing positioning tool in 3 cheap pieces of 500 gold - if you play the early ganking Legionnaire and max Terrifying Charge, your mobility and positioning needs are fulfilled by Ghost Marchers and Terrifying Charge until much later on, hence eliminating the urgent need for Portal Key.

On the other hand, if you are rushing for an early Portal Key, then Plated Greaves will give you some much needed armor for increasing your EHP against enemy physical attacks.

Portal Key: This item should be obtained quite early if you are doing a pure jungling build. You can afford to delay this quite a bit until you got Ghost Marchers/HotBL/Bottle if you are doing the early ganking build though. Regardless, this item is still core at some point of the game no matter what type of build you use on Legionnaire.

Optional Items

http://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/5/53/Shaman%27s_Headdressitem.gif/60px-Shaman%27s_Headdressitem.gif
Shaman's Headdress (2050)

Get Shaman's Headdress if there are a lot of nukes flying around (especially AoE ones). Replace Helm of the Black Legion with this if you feel that physical attacks won't be a problem for a decent portion of the game.

http://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/1/1c/Plate_Mailitem.gif/60px-Plate_Mailitem.gif
Plate Mail (1400)

Get Plate Mail if you're against a lot of hard physical hitters to tank longer, and if you're comfortable with the amount of HP you have to withstand nukes.

Luxury Items

http://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/4/47/Behemoth%27s_Heartitem.gif/60px-Behemoth%27s_Heartitem.gif
Behemoth's Heart (5500)

Acquire your luxury items depending on the situation: Behemoth's Heart is great for practically all situations, so you can't really go wrong with that.

http://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/a/a0/Frostfield_Plateitem.gif/60px-Frostfield_Plateitem.gif
Frostfield Plate (4700)

If the enemy has lots of physical DPS (or if you need an AoE snare), upgrade that Plate Mail from before into Frostfield Plate.

http://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/2/2d/Mock_of_Brillianceitem.gif/60px-Mock_of_Brillianceitem.gif
Mock of Brilliance (5150)

If you're confident in your tanking abilities at this point, aim for a Mock of Brilliance to have more presence in team battles.

http://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/d/d3/Barrier_Idolitem.gif/60px-Barrier_Idolitem.gif
Barrier Idol (3653)

Get this as an upgrade to Shaman's Headdress, especially if there are lots of enemy AoE nukes.

http://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/d/d6/Snake_Braceletitem.gif/60px-Snake_Braceletitem.gif
Snake Bracelet (1800)

Get Snake Bracelet after getting sufficient HP to increase your EHP dramatically.

http://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/b/bc/Barbed_Armoritem.gif/60px-Barbed_Armoritem.gif
Barbed Armor (2700)

It's true that the armor boost from Taunt and your total Magic Armor makes this reflect less damage, but late game this can be viable against hard-hitting carries that are a bit squishy (Chronos and Madman for instance). It's also relatively cheap and boosts your armor for a low cost.

Items to Avoid

http://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/5/58/Whispering_Helmitem.gif/60px-Whispering_Helmitem.gif
Whispering Helm

Legionnaire does pitiful physical DPS, thus not making use of the lifesteal. Don't even think about upgrading this to Symbol of Rage; Legionnaire gains way more benefits from Behemoth's Heart than from Symbol of Rage.

http://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/a/aa/Riftshardsitem.gif/60px-Riftshardsitem.gifhttp://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/7/79/Savage_Maceitem.gif/60px-Savage_Maceitem.gif
Pure DPS items (Riftshards, Runed Axe, Savage Mace, etc.)

Once again, Legionnaire doesn't carry by stacking damage.

http://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/4/4e/Geometer%27s_Baneitem.gif/60px-Geometer%27s_Baneitem.gif
Geometer's Bane

Having 3 spinning heroes can be fun, but this item won't do you much good in the end because it doesn't synergize with you very well. Legionnaire doesn't rely on physical attacks to do damage and his images will die pretty fast anyway.

http://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/1/1c/Charged_Hammeritem.gif/60px-Charged_Hammeritem.gif
Charged Hammer

This item gives you very little benefits. Have one of your agility carry allies buy it and use it on you if you want to have the static charge buff that badly.

http://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/f/fa/Brutalizeritem.gif/60px-Brutalizeritem.gifhttp://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/a/a8/Shield_Breakeritem.gif/60px-Shield_Breakeritem.gifhttp://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/3/3a/Frostwolf%27s_Skullitem.gif/60px-Frostwolf%27s_Skullitem.gifhttp://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/e/ed/Elder_Parasiteitem.gif/60px-Elder_Parasiteitem.gif
Other Morph Attack items (Brutalizer, Shield Breaker, Frostwolf's Skull, Elder Parasite, etc.)

Legionnaire has no need for any attack modifiers. He doesn't deal his damage to enemies by physically attacking them - leave that to the carries.

Jungle Basics

Before you jungle, make sure you know the basic information about the jungle, such as:

"Jungling" is an act of neutral creeping starting from Level 1
Neutral creeps first spawn at 0:30 after the lane creeps spawn.
Each neutral creep camp will respawn their creeps every minute, at x:00, provided there aren't any corpses, gadgets (including Wards of Sight and Wards of Revelation) or other units in the creep respawn checkbox area. The checkbox is actually a circle with 500 radius.
The neutral creep checkbox is the trigger that will determine whether the camp will respawn or not; if the information above is true, then it will respawn the creeps.
Creep stack camps by pulling them away from the spawn location when the timer reaches ~x:54 (the most error-free time)
Corpses take approximately 22 seconds to FULLY decay; this means all creeps should be dead at x:38, at the LATEST, if you want the camp to respawn.
Minotaurs, Catman Champions and Vagabond Leaders will use their AoE spells when there are 3 or more units in a small AoE
Vagabond Assassins will cast Purge on any hostile unit that approaches them
Creep pulling (not to be confused with creep stacking) is the act of pulling neutral creeps into the lane, in order to draw your allied creeps' aggro to lure them in, in case you have a troublesome creep camp to deal with/you're low on HP. Pull the creeps from the camp into the lane at x:15/x:45.
In most cases, aim for the creep with the highest HP when you're jungling with Legionnaire. Wolf Commanders prioritize themselves as targets above all other creeps, as their Damage Aura is really dangerous to Legionnaire.
In general, Legionnaire should tackle creep camps with 5+ creeps for more efficiency and to minimize time and HP lost.
If you end up with the healer camp at level 1 and want to stack it, you may want to wait until after you have stacked it before leveling up Whirling Blade.

About Terrifying Charge:

The new Terrifying Charge is an incredibly potent jungling tool - save it for the stacked camps to clear them more effectively.

Using Terrifying charge on a double/triple stacked creep camp at level 2+ can make once impossible creep stacks possible if you are lucky with the spins during those 4 seconds of 50% increased attack speed with 50% reduced damage creeps.

It's AoE is a relatively large angle centred at Legionnaire's front (an arc of 110 degrees that extends 240 units out):

http://img709.imageshack.us/img709/8755/chargeaoe.jpg

Jungle Walkthrough (Legion)

After buying your starting items, go to this spot and stand here until the clock reaches 0:30 after the lane creeps spawn. If the camp spawns Skeletons, consider yourself lucky. You will revisit this camp later if that is the case.

http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/3378/startpositionz.jpg

Regardless of the type of creeps that spawned, go walk to the easy creep camp and wait until ~x:54 to pull the creeps, as indicated in the screenshot. Walk to the creeps to draw aggro (blue arrow), then move out up or to the right (red arrows). This is how you stack creep camps.

http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/2176/pull1.jpg

This is what a successful creep stack looks like. Dive into it and hit level 2.

http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/3766/pull1success.jpg

If you got a Skeleton King creep camp before, go kill that camp and hit level 3. If not, check the other high level camp for Skeletons. If there aren't any, check to see whether either of the 2 medium camps have Wolf Commanders. If they do, kill the wolf camp (s). If they don't you can attempt to double creep stack.

First, you'll want to know which tree to get rid of to double creep stack. Get rid of either the tree with the yellow circle or the tree with the red circle. If you're good, you can pull the top camp, eat the tree, go down a bit and go left to pull both camps. If you're not as familiar with jungling, it's better to eat the tree first and then do the pull. If the bottom creeps get stuck behind the trees, you can eat the other circled tree to make double pulling easier.

http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/5904/treeovu.jpg

Get close to the top camp (without drawing aggro) by x:51, then draw aggro at x:54, go down to the tree gap you created to aggro the other creep camp. Finally, pull them to the left. Congrats, you did a double creep stack!

http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/1760/doublepull.jpg
From now on, you can do multiple things: tackle the easy camp again, deal with the stacked camps, deal with Skeleton camps (if any of them exist) or creep pull neutrals to the lane. If you want, you can also keep on stacking the 2 medium camps and then tackle them later on, depending on the circumstances.

Note: Once you have Portal Key, you can triple stack camps more easily by doing the above & blinking over to the hard camp nearby to pull them. (Thanks to IzvergRzgvor (http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/member.php?u=94498))

Note#2: It is possible to double stack the lower creep camp without eating the tree. The initial spawn must not consist of Minotaur+Goatar & must consist of at least one other type of spawn, the reason being is that Minotaurs do not spawn close enough to the tree in order to draw aggro. Use the same timing as you would normally use for double stacking (you should move close to the trees at around ~x:54). Here is a screenshot illustrating this (Thanks to simparoo (http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/member.php?u=28960)). Using this method, we can triple stack even without the use of a Rune of the Blight/Logger's Hatchet!

http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/5186/stealthpull.jpg

TRIPLE Stacking Camps:

See this video. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9pDoXMVIgU) (Credits to HoN League)

ElementUser

08-17-2009, 10:01 AM

Jungle Walkthrough (Hellbourne)

Same thing as Legion, wait here until 0:30 for the creep spawn & look for Skeletons to kill later.

http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/7636/hbstart.jpg

At x:54, draw aggro on the medium camp.

http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/5879/legohb1.jpg

Afterward, go towards upwards & to the right towards the easy camp. Aggro them as quickly as possible - you should be at the easy camp at around x:55.

http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/9273/legohb2.jpg

The result: 2 perfectly double-stacked camps!

http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/5948/legohb3.jpg

Note: This creep-stacking method can be difficult to pull off 100% of the time since it requires good timing, so don't fret if you didn't stack both camps.

Dive into the stacked easy camp to reach level 2. From now on, you can do multiple things: deal with the other stacked camp (if circumstances permit it), deal with Skeleton camps (if any of them exist) or creep pull neutrals to the lane. If you want, you can also keep on double-stacking the easy & medium camps and then tackle them later on.

Here's some really helpful information about in-depth jungling for Hellbourne (thanks to Anx (http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/member.php?u=18781)).

So thanks to your guide, over the past 2 days I've managed to almost perfect the art that is jungling with Legionnaire.

My average time for lvl 6 is under 4 minutes, though I've only play Hellborne side... no idea what it would be if I played Legion.

I decided to Fraps my lvl 1-6 for you to add to the guide if you'd like, it might help some people who aren't exactly clear on what they have to do.

The video (which was uploaded in high enough resolution that YouTube will undoubtedly re-encode it to their HD format and post a far clearer version of) can be found here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3k27oRtKxPQ

I also have some more timestamps for you (for Hellbourne side).

http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/8391/camps.png

From the Medium camp without a circle, you can easily double stack the hard camp to the bottom-left of it without the use of boots or portal key. You have to aggro the mobs at the medium camp at :50, and run straight to the hard camp. When you're en route from the medium camp to the hard camp, with the mobs in pursuit, you should try to aggro the hard camp's mobs as far to the bottom of the camp as you can and as soon as you're within aggro range, head to the right towards the river entry point.

Now, if you're fighting mobs at the medium camp marked with a red circle and want to be able to reach the other medium camp in time to aggro them by :50, you have to leave the camp marked with a red circle by about :37 or 38.

Also, I've found that getting 4 hp pots and then marchers immediately (before life tube) is extremely beneficial, as it allows you to avoid having to stack the easy camp when you double stack on the right side... instead you aggro the hard group on the right at :49, just before the clock hits :50, and haul ass to the medium camp with the red circle... then up, as if you were stacking the easy one with the medium one.

Also... If you're going to be standing around for 30 seconds anyways, I figure why not watch for the top rune... I only take if if it's double damage or haste, else let someone else bottle it... now if you pick up a haste rune, you should grab it at 0:21, and (as you can see in the video I uploaded) it will let you scout out what mobs are waiting for you at the hard and medium camps on the left before you go eat that tree and start stacking on the right.

Dealing with Different Creep Camps

Easy camp: You'll own them easily regardless of which creeps spawn, don't worry. Just be aware of the Antlore Healer camp because you don't want to damage any of the units in the camp before stacking them, or else the Antlore Healer will stay in the spawn-check area.

Medium camps:

Wolf Commander + Wolf x2: if one of these camps exist, you want to get rid of the camp ASAP. If it's in a stack, it's even worse because his Damage Aura gives a painful +30% damage to nearby neutrals; your Iron Bucklers cannot withstand them for too long. The 2x critical strike also hurts.
Wild Hunter x2: These guys will take longer to go down because they have 800 HP and they only spawn in 2's. However, they deal low damage, so you should be fine. Dealing with them in a stack is more efficient.
Ice Ogre + Fire Ogre x2: The easiest medium camp, these creeps will serve you well for clearing more dangerous stacks (ones with Wolf Commanders and Minotaurs). They do low damage and spawns in 3's.
Minotaur + Goatar: The hardest of the medium camps, do not take this camp alone without help from a Wild Hunter/Ogre stack before level 5. If you need help and this camp is on the pullable camp, pull the neutrals to the lane.
Vagabond x2 + Vagabond Assassin x2: This is a really easy camp to take out. The only thing you should be concerned about is Vagabond Assassin's Purge if you're going to creep pull/creep stack, as it slows your movement speed. Make sure to pull/stack the camp a few seconds earlier than usual.

Hard Camps:

Minotaur + Goatar: Explained above; do not take this camp before level 5, even if you have a Skeleton camp in the stack.
Skeleton King + Undead Warrior x2: The best hard camp you can get, these guys give lots of gold and experience, while maintaining low damage. They also spawn in 3's, which is good news for you. You can take them on as early as level 2.
Vulture Lord + Screacher x2: The third most difficult hard camp you'll encounter. At least this camp spawns in 3's instead of 2's, so it's a bit easier than Minotaurs/Catmen. Do not encounter before level 5 unless your HP is high enough.
Catman Champion + Catman Soldier: The hardest creep camp you'll encounter as Legionnaire (Catman Champion and Minotaur have nearly identical stats, but Catman Soldier does 52-59 damage compared to Goatar's 18-21 damage). Do not fight this camp before level 7, no matter what.
Vagabond + Vagabond Assassin + Vagabond Leader: This camp is easier compared to most of the other hard camps, as you'll have 2 weak units helping you spin against the strong one.

Dealing with Other Players

If the enemies are ganking you in the jungle, your support ally should ward in this spot. If he's too stingy to do this, buy a set of wards yourself. The last thing you want is some random hero killing you with a nuke when you're at 50 HP from a neutral encounter. Though in most games, your enemies shouldn't be ganking you anyway. If they do, they'll most likely fail and lose their experience/gold that they would've gotten from laning. Besides, Legionnaire jungles very quickly anyway.

By the way, feel free to gank enemies when the circumstances permit it without dying/losing too much time.

Legion's Ward Spot:

http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/4573/wardspot.jpg

Hellbourne's Ward Spot:

http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/1476/ward1.jpg

Laning: Early Game (Level 1-9)

(Skip this section and go straight to mid-game if you jungled)

If you decide to lane (due to bad circumstances for jungling), grab the same starting items (maybe replace 1 Iron Buckler with some Minor Totems) and farm your way to Lifetube & your core items. Go to the safe lane (bottom for Legion/top for Hellbourne) and a ranged allied hero if possible.

If your enemies are ranged heroes (especially those with painful nukes and disables), attempt to last-hit/deny as usual and don't harass as much. Make sure to stay alive and farm that Lifetube. If you're having a hard time with the enemy lane, either switch lanes or get your team's Courier to fetch you additional regeneration items (same thing as if you were jungling).

If your enemies are melee, be a bit more aggressive to establish lane control. When they approach the creep wave, right-click on the enemy hero to draw creep aggro. The enemies will either get a last-hit and suffer some damage from Whirling Blade or back off from the creep wave, thus losing gold. When they're far from the creep wave, make sure to issue another command (such as moving/attacking an allied or enemy creep) so you minimize pushing the lane too much. If they re-approach the creep wave, rinse and repeat.

If the opportunity for a kill arises, use Taunt if the enemy is close enough. If you can get both enemy heroes and/or some enemy creeps with your Taunt, that will trigger Whirling Blade even more. Tell your ally to follow-up your Taunt. Of course if the enemy is not in range for your Taunt, wait for your ally to disable them and then Taunt them. This concept applies to allied ganks as well, so be ready. Keep your eyes on the minimap as well for potential enemy ganks.

If your lane is pushed too far, you or your ally should do a creep pull if you're in the safe lane. It's best if your ally follows the pulled creeps back to their camp while you tank the enemy creep wave to get gold and experience. You shouldn't be ganking lanes until you have your Portal Key, so stay in your lane and farm that Portal Key up.

Honestly there's not that much more I can say about laning Legionnaire. Only your lane control skills, technical skills, game experience and common sense can help you here.

Mid-Game (Level 10-16)

After acquiring your Portal Key, you should be starting to help your allies gank enemies with your Blink-Taunt combo. If there aren't any immediate opportunities, return to the jungle and farm for your Helm of the Black Legion and Enhanced Marchers. When a gank opportunity presents itself, go help your allies out. Given that both teams have been doing relatively evenly in hero score and laning experience/gold, your team should have the upper hand due to having 2 solos.

Once you got your core items, ask your teammates to push some towers down. At this point, you'll have a very good amount of HP (~1600) with decent armor and great mobility. The enemies should fear your Blink-Taunt combo (if they don't, they'll most likely pay for it). Don't be afraid to initiate once you have your core items. Your allies should follow-up after you Taunted the enemies. If some enemy heroes are fleeing after a team battle and your team looks like it still has the upper hand, chase with your Blink-Taunt combo (assuming you still have sufficient mana). If not, retreat and help draw fire from your allies with Taunt.

Legionnaire is at his peak during mid-game with all his HP and physical damage reduction. Therefore, you'll want to end the game sooner rather than later, so ask your teammates to push.

Late-Game (Level 17+)

If it's late game, you should have at least one of the optional items or partially completed one of your luxury items. At this point, Legionnaire isn't as tanky or dangerous than he was at mid-game, due to enemy heroes getting more physical damage to cut through your HP & acquiring more EHP to withstand Whirling Blade. Your job is the same though, initiate & tank for your team, chase fleeing heroes.

Tank them all.

Annoying Enemies:

http://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/2/2d/Predatorhero.gif/60px-Predatorhero.gif
Predator: His Carnivorous deals damage based on the current % of your HP. Since Legionnaire is a tank with a lot of HP, he'll tear you down pretty fast while keeping himself alive.

http://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/b/bd/Magebanehero.gif/60px-Magebanehero.gif
Magebane: His Mana Combustion is the only annoying thing about him, rendering you unable to use your spells due to your innate low mana pool.

http://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/8/82/Pestilencehero.gif/60px-Pestilencehero.gif
Pestilence: Amplify Damage makes you fall faster. You'll need quite a bit of armor to compensate for the -15 armor late game. (Thanks to SyyRaaaN (http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/member.php?u=42605))

Great Allies:

http://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/9/9a/Jeraziahhero.gif/64px-Jeraziahhero.gif
Jeraziah: Always a great ally to have, just don't tell him to cast Protective Charm on you in teamfights. Taunt+Inner Light deals some quick and painful burst damage to enemies.

http://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/4/4f/Glaciushero.gif/60px-Glaciushero.gif
Glacius: Gives you all the mana regeneration you'll need.

http://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/f/f3/Demented_Shamanhero.gif/60px-Demented_Shamanhero.gif
Demented Shaman: Healing Wave will help keep you alive & damage Taunted enemies. Storm Cloud lets your Whirling Blade deal more damage later on, as well as buffing up your own armor. (Thanks to Mr_Kzimir (http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/member.php?u=138581))

-Any hero with Charged Hammer: Just tell them to cast the Static Charge buff on you and it'll help take down enemies a bit faster later on.

-Other disablers/nukers: Well everyone loves disablers and nukers, especially AoE ones to follow-up after your Blink-Taunt combo!

FAQ

Q: I get Runed Axe on Legionnaire to farm for more stuff like Flayer and Savage Mace! I'M SO PRO

Legionnaire isn't a hero that owns other heroes by hitting them over and over again. He owns by using Taunt to tank and by using his manly Whirling Blade. None of his skills help him gain more power by physically hitting enemies, anyway.

Q: No Fortified Bracers/Homecoming Stones?

In general you won't have much space for Fortified Bracers. It's general knowledge to carry a Homecoming Stone by mid-game whenever possible, so I didn't include it in the guide.

Q: Why no mention of the creep-skipping Legionnaire?

While it can be effective against a very weak solo/dual lane (mostly melee strength/agility heroes), a few nukes/disables and/or a ranged hero will make short work of Legionnaire.

Q: Why don't you ever refer to Legionnaire as "Lego"?

Because he's not made of Lego, obviously.

Q: Who is this thisisBob you keep on referring to?

Only one of the most epic guide writers ever. He wrote epic guides to bearded heroes in DotA AND he's the founder of the famous DotA MS Paint Rage Dump Thread.

Q: What's your opinion about Restoration Stone/Totem of Kuldra/Stormspirit, etc.?

Use your own professional judgment to figure out whether it's good for the game you're in or not; I'm not here to discuss your item choices when you're freefarming 120 minutes into an -em game.

Q: Rumors have been going around saying that Legionnaire's Whirling Blade doesn't proc on blocked hits by Iron Buckler or Helm of the Black Legion. Is this true?

Not true at all. Whirling Blade still procs normally on a blocked attack.

References:

thisisBob's Guide to Axe: http://forums.dota-allstars.com/index.php?showtopic=35695
thisisBob's Guide to Jungle Axe: http://forums.dota-allstars.com/index.php?showtopic=174550
IronFisto's Guide to Creep Pulls & Jungling: http://forums.dota-allstars.com/index.php?showtopic=161875
HoN Wiki: http://honwiki.net (http://honwiki.net/)

Credits:

Nome - for part of his guide format
thisisBob - for his guides & quotes. He also inspired me to write my first (ever) hero guide!
Anx - for his helpful insights in the finer details of Hellbourne Jungling
jhorry08 - for his insights on Terrifying Charge while Jungling

ElementUser

08-17-2009, 10:03 AM

Appendix

Neutral Creep Diagram

If you don't know which camps are "easy, medium and hard", I'll tell you right now with this diagram.

Yellow circles are easy camps.
Orange circles are medium camps.
Orange circles with a blue circle around it are hard camps.
Red circles are ancient creep camps, but we won't be tackling those for early/mid-game with Legionnaire.

http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/2831/mapumx.png

Creep Pulling

If you're having trouble dealing with a camp you can always creep pull from the pullable camp (bottom medium camp on Legion, top medium camp on Hellbourne). Move towards the creeps at x:15/x:45 to draw their aggro and pull them into the lane. It's a bit trickier on Legion because of the single tree that blocks your allied creeps' vision when the neutrals return to their spawn, so try to keep the neutrals in your vision at all times. (These are Ogre spawns, so you should generally tackle them head on yourself.)

http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/8522/creeppull.jpg

Mathcraft - Iron Buckler Stacking Mechanics

Why you shouldn't get more than 2 Iron Bucklers:

1 Iron Buckler: 60% chance to block 20 damage ; 0.6 x 20 = 12 average damage block from each attack
2 Iron Bucklers: 1 - (1-0.6)(1-0.6) = 1 - (0.4)(0.4) = 1 - 0.16 = 0.84 = 84% chance to block 20 damage; 0.84 x 20 = 16.8 average damage block from each attack
3 Iron Bucklers: 1 - (1-0.6)(1-0.6)(1-0.6) = 1 - (0.4)(0.4)(0.4) = 1 - 0.064 = 0.936 = 93.6% chance to block 20 damage; 0.936 x 20 = 18.72 average damage block from each attack

Fastest Jungle Time to Hit Level 6

Legion Side

bman8810 (http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/member.php?u=226123) (4:30 / 1484 Unspent Gold)

http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/9536/level6in430.jpg

Hellbourne Side

Anx (http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/member.php?u=18781)(3:45 / 447 Unspent Gold)

Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3k27oRtKxPQ

Mcspazatron (http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/member.php?u=749937)(3:54 / 1303 Unspent Gold)

http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/7163/fastestlevel6legionaire.jpg

PyroArcher (http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/member.php?u=141835) (4:40 / 1491 Unspent Gold)

http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/1150/legionairef.jpg

Sycko (http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/member.php?u=727095)
(3:15)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGsvNf3iJQo

Keep screenshots coming for your fastest time to hit level 6!

-Happy jungling!

R1C3

08-17-2009, 10:10 AM

really good guide
also helps with other jungling heroes

Xion1

08-17-2009, 10:11 AM

naihs

Mr_Kzimir

08-17-2009, 10:22 AM

I think you should also add Demented shaman to the cast of friendly heroes.

His new cape absorbs lots of your damages and the aoe shield bonus even if it's slow can be helpfull

ElementUser

08-17-2009, 10:28 AM

I think you should also add Demented shaman to the cast of friendly heroes.

His new cape absorbs lots of your damages and the aoe shield bonus even if it's slow can be helpfull

Demented Shaman is helpful to practically any hero, but his Arcane Hide isn't very effective on Legionnaire, reason being you'll usually blink into a crowd of enemies & Taunt, removing the Arcane Hide buff almost instantly. His ultimate's armor buff is pretty good for synergy with Whirling Blade and your armor though, so I guess I can add it in because of that.

SyyRaaaN

08-17-2009, 10:43 AM

Very nice guide.

ToxicHobo

08-17-2009, 10:54 AM

Great guide!

Damage

08-17-2009, 11:04 AM

Nice guide... I'll have to try this.

Can you double pull the hard and medium creeps for hellbourne?

Lethe

08-17-2009, 11:10 AM

uh...wow, I don't know what to say. Amazing guide. Will look at it more thoroughly later. You even pointed out the usefulness of a level of terrify to stop blinkers, something that is often overlooked. Nicely done.

Reach1

08-17-2009, 11:26 AM

Great guide, and I appreciate the diagrams of how to stack and which camps are what level.

ElementUser

08-17-2009, 11:48 AM

Can you double pull the hard and medium creeps for hellbourne?

I don't think so, because I haven't seen it done yet. You'll need a tree-clearing spell (or quite a few tangoes) to even have a hope of doing it. By hard/medium I assume you mean the pullable camp for Hellbourne with the nearby hard camp.

I actually DID double pull Hellbourne's easy camp/hard camp nearby once (unintentionally) - I think it has to do with the aggro range and stuff, but not so sure about HoN mechanics. Anyway I think I was lucky cause the spawns were Ebula, so it's harder to lose their aggro :P.

Thanks for your support guys

Bonburner

08-17-2009, 12:30 PM

This is a pretty sick guide dude.

It's always nice to have a Tempest follow up your Taunt because it only lasts so long though in a team play ~ or a KotF ult.

Vadi

08-17-2009, 12:49 PM

Great guide! I was going to post asking how to jungle effectively...

But I respectfully disagree, he is a Lego-man.

Utred

08-17-2009, 12:54 PM

What are you aiming for when jungling? When should you hit lvl 6?

ElementUser

08-17-2009, 01:18 PM

What are you aiming for when jungling? When should you hit lvl 6?

Oh yeah, thanks for reminding me! I forgot to post 1 screenshot :).

You aim for Portal Key when jungling, since you can rack up money pretty quickly. But you'll most likely need a Lifetube for constant regeneration to help you stay in the jungle (that, or a few more healing potions). You should hit level 6 by ~6 minutes on average. My fastest time is 5:23 with a few mistakes and decent luck (on single-player). I find myself hitting level 6 at around 6 minutes in a real game

Karacis

08-17-2009, 02:21 PM

I was mainly interested in a guide on Legionnaire. But found you really put a lot into Jungle info. Which i liked! I really think this is the way he should be played early/mid game to help with having 2 solo heros and getting a portal key ASAP.

10/10 on the guide! Very well done on info for anyone that wants to jungle and info on Legionnaire, Thanks man! :)

MrTortoise1

08-17-2009, 02:28 PM

aye great guide

thanks.

Especially the double double stacking

GuyGin

08-17-2009, 02:37 PM

This is a cool guide. It really inspired me to play the Legionarre.

Only things I have questions about are:
Are any carries viable partners for legionairre ganking?
Is Post Haste a good idea since you seem so focused on legionairre as a ganker? As a substitute for enhanced marchers clearly, or is the armor from enhanced marchers necessity(you seem to give very little value to the +dmg)?
What is the damage from Axe Whirl skill based off of?

Tafelpoot

08-17-2009, 02:50 PM

how come this aint a premium guide yet ?? such a neat and good guide!

Travakh

08-17-2009, 02:51 PM

You should list sheepstick. It's frankly a more useful item on axe than a radiance.

Nome

08-17-2009, 02:55 PM

great guide A+++ would read again

ElementUser

08-17-2009, 03:00 PM

You should list sheepstick. It's frankly a more useful item on axe than a radiance.

True, but then again Totem of Kuldra is useful for practically every hero if you're lolfarmed and your team needs a disable, so I won't mention every single good/bad item.

This is a cool guide. It really inspired me to play the Legionarre.

Only things I have questions about are:
Are any carries viable partners for legionairre ganking?
Is Post Haste a good idea since you seem so focused on legionairre as a ganker? As a substitute for enhanced marchers clearly, or is the armor from enhanced marchers necessity(you seem to give very little value to the +dmg)?
What is the damage from Axe Whirl skill based off of?

Most carries/semi-carries have some form of a disable (Night Hound has Smoke Bomb and normally gets Nullfire Blade for purge, Valkyrie has Javelin of Light, Madman has Barrel Roll). As long as they can help deal damage to your prey and help disable/slow them, he's fine with pretty much any hero for ganking assists.

Enhanced Marchers currently counter a lot of spells (Mummies, Fissure). But even if they didn't, it's still great because it comes in small pieces so you don't have to farm all day for Post Haste. If you don't want to carry Homecoming Stones and you think your armor is fine late-game, then by all means upgrade to Post Haste. But Enhanced Marchers is the preferred choice of Boots for early/mid game.

What do you mean by "the damage from Axe Whirl skill based off of"? If you mean the DotA skill equivalent, it's Counter Helix (it sounds way cooler too). It's actually based off brilliance aura with a 0.01 mana/second regen, with a bunch of triggers associated with it.

Powster

08-17-2009, 03:25 PM

Best guide I have seen so far.. and actually the one I have been looking for lol.. Been wanting to learn how to jungle legionnaire good.. Very detailed guide

DrRisan

08-17-2009, 04:27 PM

Talking about premium, check out my list of the guides here:
http://www.newerth.com/smf/index.php/topic,8032.0.html

It is a premium guide here mate!

08-17-2009, 04:31 PM

I find axe one of the most OP heroes late game and with this, there's going to be a lot of people playing axe to farm up stats. Great guide.

PandaPanda

08-17-2009, 04:45 PM

Cool Guide. One question: Are you thisisBob?

ShinigamiNeo

08-17-2009, 04:50 PM

great :)
shoudl get prem imo

GuyGin

08-17-2009, 04:56 PM

What do you mean by "the damage from Axe Whirl skill based off of"? If you mean the DotA skill equivalent, it's Counter Helix (it sounds way cooler too). It's actually based off brilliance aura with a 0.01 mana/second regen, with a bunch of triggers associated with it.

sorry I just didn't read closely enough on the skill I see now that it's just a static damage aoe now! That's way more technical than I needed!

Thanks for the reply though!

Mud`kip

08-17-2009, 05:02 PM

Really nice :)

ElementUser

08-17-2009, 05:05 PM

Cool Guide. One question: Are you thisisBob?

No, my writing style isn't as manly and humorous as his anyway

Talking about premium, check out my list of the guides here:
http://www.newerth.com/smf/index.php/topic,8032.0.html

It is a premium guide here mate!

Thanks! Actually to be honest I didn't even know those forums existed...xD

Steffen

08-17-2009, 05:35 PM

awesome guide, thanks a lot, but on dota, i tended to stack hearts after dagger, vanguard and phase...

ElementUser

08-17-2009, 05:38 PM

awesome guide, thanks a lot, but on dota, i tended to stack hearts after dagger, vanguard and phase...

Stacking hearts won't give you the extra % based regeneration. Anyway I advocate some armor items on Legionnaire because if you go for too much pure HP, those carry heroes will deal a lot of damage to cut right through your HP late-game

DrRisan

08-17-2009, 05:38 PM

No, my writing style isn't as manly and humorous as his anyway

Thanks! Actually to be honest I didn't even know those forums existed...xD

Hehe, I believe that all your hard work deserves to be shared :D.

Very nice guide between, one of the most well-written hero guides on HoN.

dadumbass

08-17-2009, 06:19 PM

Thanks sooo much xD.
Excellent guide. Easy, simple, funny.

My first 2 attempts blew but on the 3rd I gained 8 levels and earned ~1846 gold from creeps, 2221 if it was non-em.
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c301/TheWierdDude/lego.jpg

Whoo.

ElementUser

08-17-2009, 06:24 PM

Thanks sooo much xD.
Excellent guide. Easy, simple, funny.

My first 2 attempts blew but on the 3rd I gained 8 levels and earned ~1846 gold from creeps, 2221 if it was non-em.

Whoo.

Nice! Don't worry, 6 minutes is a pretty good time to hit level 6 (actually you got further - level 8). Then again it's -em, but still nicely done. Your health looks pretty low, you sure you don't want any help from a courier? :P

Oh yeah by the way, I reduce my starting gold from 3890 to 690 by massing couriers (they cost 200 each), then buying 1 set of tangoes, making my starting gold 600. Of course I drop those items on the ground and then buy my usual items, not taking any of the previous items I bought. I don't recommend jungling in an -em game because you'd get experience way faster in-lane

MCPC

08-17-2009, 08:20 PM

Nice guide! If I get courier first, is it really necessary to get a second stout anyway? Can't I just go straight to a lifetube, or is that a too big monetary step?

ElementUser

08-17-2009, 08:30 PM

Nice guide! If I get courier first, is it really necessary to get a second stout anyway? Can't I just go straight to a lifetube, or is that a too big monetary step?

If you want to skip your other Iron Buckler, go ahead. You won't be able to tank stacked camps as effectively, but it still works. You'll sell the second Iron Buckler eventually to make space for more important items.

Corruptor1

08-17-2009, 08:51 PM

Very decent guide, like your pictures/screenshots alot.

Mazuli

08-17-2009, 09:16 PM

ElementUser

08-17-2009, 09:33 PM

Maybe it's just me but I never have much success jungling early on. I usually end up around the same level as my teammates in the dual lane so I guess that's not a bad thing. The problem is the guys in the single lanes usually get overrun and we lose our towers or they feed a lot. This happens every time I play Zephyr or Wildsoul and go jungling.

It's just you. I normally keep up with my solo lanes (even when our solo lanes do well).

If you jungle (which means neutralling starting from level 1) as Zephyr, you're doing it wrong because Zephyr needs to level to at least level 5 & acquire his lifetube before he can jungle well. Wildsoul on the other hand can jungle well at level 1 because of his tanky summon.

Anyway, that's the reason why I told you to only jungle when you have 2 capable solos that are able to survive & do well

Kwaurtz

08-17-2009, 09:53 PM

Impressive Will. For someone who was always stalking the DOTA forums on guides and educating me on mechanics for my dota career you have yet to fall short of what I expect of someone like you :D

chiakoni

08-18-2009, 12:03 AM

Maybe it's just me but I never have much success jungling early on. I usually end up around the same level as my teammates in the dual lane so I guess that's not a bad thing. The problem is the guys in the single lanes usually get overrun and we lose our towers or they feed a lot. This happens every time I play Zephyr or Wildsoul and go jungling.

The problem that new people usually have with jungling is the lack of double stacking. It's a pretty significant boost to speed/$ to efficiently stack every minute, especially if you can get two packs at once reliably. Still, a lot of it is random. If you get catmen over and over you'll have a much, much slower time than if you were to get skeletons and ogres constantly.

I also find with the current hero pools, more often than not it's better to skip helm and just go for headdress, then go straight to heart or finish a helm if the game's not going optimally. I generally go stouts > 2x trinkets > dagger > finish headdress > etc.

Also, when you get dagger you can actually double stack 3 packs at once as legion reliably by following the pictures in the guide, then blinking over to the pack just to the left. :)

PandaPanda

08-18-2009, 12:12 AM

No, my writing style isn't as manly and humorous as his anyway

Oh, okay. I was asking because I went to high school with him but I didn't know if he was playing HoN or not :p

Anyway, it's still pretty funny, and better still, it's a very informative guide.

thebadger_j

08-18-2009, 12:19 AM

Give me some credit wtf

such as me inspiring you to even write this guide?? :P

GuyGin

08-18-2009, 12:42 AM

I tried this guide today and I REALLY had fun with it.

One question though, I was having a hard time with mana when ganking. I would taunt, decap and then another time taunt. But then i'd be oom for minutes on end until i could taunt again.

Would the ring of sorcery be a suitable mana development item? I went with a mana tube lategame just so i didnt have to teleport constantly to regen mana.

Also, is there a specific point when you should drop the 2nd buckler you start with?

poon

08-18-2009, 01:09 AM

BotD

08-18-2009, 04:53 AM

Nice guide.
I loved the tip for creep stacking.
Now I can time it perfectly EVERY time.
yey.

And I remember thisisBob.
Fkin epic guides to every bearded hero.
I just checked him up again on the DotA forums and they actually named him "Beard" where the "moderator/admin/etc" would be.
:)

Kwaurtz

08-18-2009, 05:56 AM

Predator: His Carnivorous deals damage based on the current % of your HP. Since Legionnaire is a tank with a lot of HP, he'll tear you down pretty fast while keeping himself alive.

i'd want to correct you on that;
that specific spell does not affect heroes; only creeps.

Wrong, the spell does work on heroes, it just does not work on boss units like Kongor, preventing you from doing him solo early on.

ElementUser

08-18-2009, 09:00 AM

The problem that new people usually have with jungling is the lack of double stacking. It's a pretty significant boost to speed/$ to efficiently stack every minute, especially if you can get two packs at once reliably. Still, a lot of it is random. If you get catmen over and over you'll have a much, much slower time than if you were to get skeletons and ogres constantly.

I also find with the current hero pools, more often than not it's better to skip helm and just go for headdress, then go straight to heart or finish a helm if the game's not going optimally. I generally go stouts > 2x trinkets > dagger > finish headdress > etc.

Also, when you get dagger you can actually double stack 3 packs at once as legion reliably by following the pictures in the guide, then blinking over to the pack just to the left. :)

Hm, some pretty good info. However, you're forgetting that Catmen/Vultures/Skeletons don't spawn in the double-pulled medium camps; only Minotaurs/Ogres/Wolves/Wild Hunters do.

Helm of the Black Legion is better in general, but yeah if you're against a caster heavy team feel free to skip it entirely if you want. Just make sure to get that Beast Heart + Axe of the Malphai earlier then for more HP.

I didn't know about the Dagger triple stack :). Thanks for the info, I might as well add it in somewhere

Give me some credit wtf

such as me inspiring you to even write this guide?? :P

I didn't even know you went onto these forums, so I figured you wouldn't know about this :P. Even though I didn't talk about your suicidal super double-stacking method much :D. Ok I added you :(

I tried this guide today and I REALLY had fun with it.

One question though, I was having a hard time with mana when ganking. I would taunt, decap and then another time taunt. But then i'd be oom for minutes on end until i could taunt again.

Would the ring of sorcery be a suitable mana development item? I went with a mana tube lategame just so i didnt have to teleport constantly to regen mana.

Also, is there a specific point when you should drop the 2nd buckler you start with?

What level were you when you were ganking? If you were level 9-12, it's understandable because you wouldn't have gotten many stat bonuses. If you're ganking a lot and having trouble with mana, get a Magic Wand (sigh, that would be the perfect item if it were in HoN). Ok seriously though, get a Bottle since it's the next best thing for burst mana regeneration without getting other items that unnecessarily give you excess mana. Ring of Sorcery is a huge no for Legionnaire.

No specific point in time, just sell your unneeded items whenever you buy better ones.

Australia1

08-18-2009, 10:14 AM

thank you

ElementUser

08-18-2009, 01:27 PM

Added a short section to laning Legionnaire

Nome

08-18-2009, 08:05 PM

Going to go ahead and move this thread to premium.
Great guide, and congrats!

Oh, and I edited the thread title to conform with the other premiums. Hope you don't mind <3

ElementUser

08-18-2009, 08:14 PM

Oh, thanks Nome. Darn no epic title :(. Oh well.

SoleSurvivor

08-18-2009, 08:18 PM

Nice work dude, rly nice guide.

Lethe

08-18-2009, 09:36 PM

:p Nome I'm wondering if moving my Glacius guide to premiums is considered abuse. What do you think?

Karacis

08-19-2009, 12:10 PM

ElementUser

08-19-2009, 12:56 PM

Congrats on the Premium guide and on Forum Moderators :)

This guide needed to be Premium, its that GOOD!

I have one question, on the legion side when trying to double stack the 2 medium camp. After i eat the top tree and try to pull them together. I always have one group running back to their spawn point. Uusually its the top one near the river. Maybe i'm not doing it right but ive tried it couple different ways and seems kind of off :(

I think your timing is off. At x:51, start moving to the top camp. Once you have their aggro, don't waste any time moving to the bottom one. Once you have the bottom camp's aggro, don't waste time in moving to the left. If it still doesn't work for you, you can try pulling them to the right instead of the left (though I haven't tested this yet).

It doesn't matter if the top group returns back to their camp, so long as the creep stack works

Brad1

08-19-2009, 02:20 PM

Very straight forward guide. I never really understood creep stacking in DotA (it never seemed to work for me) but this has helped a bunch.

edit: WORD TO MY BOY WILL

Karacis

08-19-2009, 04:55 PM

I think your timing is off. At x:51, start moving to the top camp. Once you have their aggro, don't waste any time moving to the bottom one. Once you have the bottom camp's aggro, don't waste time in moving to the left. If it still doesn't work for you, you can try pulling them to the right instead of the left (though I haven't tested this yet).

It doesn't matter if the top group returns back to their camp, so long as the creep stack works

Sounds good man, i will give it couple trial runs tonight and see. I always just make a solo game and test out pulls and see how they will work out before doing a real match :)

Svedberg

08-20-2009, 01:53 AM

Very nice guide, lovin it! :)

Qae

08-20-2009, 10:52 PM

Great guide that reveals to non-Dota players/beginners about how to jungle efficiently using double pull. Grats on a great thread Element.

_swEEt

08-21-2009, 03:14 AM

ElementUser

08-21-2009, 08:43 AM

nice but u have basically said terrify is useless. if the enemy is good u wont be able to go lalala and jungle the whole early game. terrify is great for early game in and agi heroes. + taunt is not able to be used on neuts therefores its a waste tohave more than 1 lvl of it early game without a dagger. and if u say well i have level 4 of it and i get kills with it all the time your prolly vsing noobs who keep letting themselves get called. nice guide though i like the eating a tree idea but terrify is a great early game skill if only to cancel rejuvs

Well Terrify is pretty useless (other than cancelling Portal Key). If you have a Glacius on your team, then you can get it earlier because you won't have as many problems. You can also get Terrify if you go Sacrificial Stone first (but I don't use or talk about that item build).

What are you talking about "if the enemy is good"? If you mean they ward all your neutrals (1000 gold to ward block all 5 spots), they're sort of wasting their money. If you mean they gank you, obviously get a pack of Wards yourself like I said in the guide. Have you ever actually seen anyone successfully hinder Legionnaire's jungle process by a lot? Because he jungles pretty quickly and it's hard to stop him without spawn blocking.

Well, if you don't get Taunt, what skill would you get? Stats? Not going to help much. Terrify? Like you said, you're jungling, so that's even worse. Taunt is maxed fast to help you gank enemies ASAP after you get your dagger. If you don't max Taunt, it's like not maxing Glacius' Ice Imprisonment.

Terrify is too mana consuming for Legionnaire, that's the main reason I don't get it. Oh and read the thisisBob's quote about Battle Hunger (which is Terrify), you'll know you're bad if you get it :) :P lol

Manne_Nabo

08-21-2009, 02:00 PM

amazing guide, got 6 in 4:44

Kitsunesama

08-22-2009, 08:22 AM

I love this guide.

Was really successful on the two games I played recently.

Only issue I had was I couldnt purchase the wards because no one baught a courier, so I did get ganked twice, but both times it was because one of my allies lovingly lead them to me after some creep fights... Slither hurts...

I must say.... having the 650-ish threshold on Decap is soooooo awesome against low health heroes. Had one guy at 60% and I decapitated him and he was asking "wth did you DO?"

Kitsunesama

08-22-2009, 08:23 AM

It would be awesome if Terrify negated all positive Regeneration effects while active. Would at least make it worthwhile in the late game.

Winformula1

08-22-2009, 06:10 PM

Great guide very appreciated keep the good work up!

Hellf1r3

08-24-2009, 12:19 PM

Nice One!!
thanks!

_Archangel_

08-24-2009, 11:54 PM

You could mention creep-skipping with a healer (Voodoo Jester as he now has Warlock's heal, or Accursed) though it doesn't really matter I guess. I'm not a fan of the creepskipping strategy either.

ElementUser

08-25-2009, 08:42 AM

You could mention creep-skipping with a healer (Voodoo Jester as he now has Warlock's heal, or Accursed) though it doesn't really matter I guess. I'm not a fan of the creepskipping strategy either.

Neither am I, thus not including it :(

Kakafika

08-25-2009, 11:51 AM

Excellent guide; the screenshots and specificity make this easy to follow-up in-game. I use my second HoN forum post to congratulate you.

Lucifinil

08-25-2009, 08:30 PM

Top work OP, Jungling help heaps with my $$$ and exp

tomsh

08-27-2009, 03:50 AM

Awesome guide thanks man.

Fuga

08-27-2009, 08:35 PM

blocked dmg doesn't proc whirl.

V_Man

08-28-2009, 07:19 AM

First try after reading and using you guide, (which is awesome btw!) i hit lvl 6 i no time and with some money in hand aswell =D Premium - Hell Yeah!

http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/151/axey.th.jpg (http://img269.imageshack.us/i/axey.jpg/)

ElementUser

08-28-2009, 09:04 AM

V_Man

08-28-2009, 09:08 AM

Well actually Arach was solo and Soul was top there.. And Magnus, well he's a whole different story.. Pub games ftw =P

ElementUser

08-28-2009, 09:42 AM

Well actually Arach was solo and Soul was top there.. And Magnus, well he's a whole different story.. Pub games ftw =P

Woops :P. But Magmus solo is sort of fail anyway :(.

Well you certainly beat my fastest time, so I'll post it in the 3rd post of the thread :).

ElementUser

08-28-2009, 05:43 PM

blocked dmg doesn't proc whirl.

Yes it does. I might as well farm up 6 Helm of the Black Legions, run a test to see if spin proc rate drops dramatically.

Mathematically:

1 - (1-0.7)^6 = 1- (0.3)^6 = 1 - 0.000729 = 0.999271 = 99.9271% to block 40 damage (which is practically 100%).

Just tested this, even on a blocked hit I still spun. So it's working perfectly fine in that sense.

ElementUser

08-29-2009, 11:46 AM

UPDATED!

Now featuring Hellbourne Jungle Walkthrough. Yes I found a way to double creep stack on Hellbourne :).

Marvel2

08-29-2009, 05:14 PM

This is probably one of the better guides on this forum, keep it up man.

Uludayen

08-29-2009, 05:37 PM

None of this matters without pseudo-random. Axe was a favorite of mine in dota, but here... I was doing perfect with the creeps, level 9 while our solo was 8 and theirs was 8...

I was in the jungle, fighting a camp of 6 creeps and then i got ganked by 2 heroes. I taunted them both and got no spins for the whole ~5 seconds i was next to them.

Then, later, I ran into the middle of a teamfight with ~10 of their creeps and the 5 heroes, taunted, and they just whacked me to death. Not a single spin... ever.

So lame.

It's a fairly nice guide though.

ElementUser

08-29-2009, 06:11 PM

FatBolter

08-29-2009, 09:11 PM

Friend went for Your Guide and hited 6 on 5 min took that ps few sec later thx for that guide
http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/151/axey.th.jpg (http://img269.imageshack.us/i/axey.jpg/)http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/axey.jpg/1/w1280.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img269/axey.jpg/1/)

ElementUser

08-29-2009, 09:14 PM

FatBolter

08-30-2009, 02:37 PM

I already added that image in my third post lol. He posted it here before you did actually xD

And thanks :)
lol got wrong link heres hes sry ^^
http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/525/asdekj.jpg

akitoes

08-30-2009, 02:51 PM

This guide is manly.

Jcdenton1

08-30-2009, 02:57 PM

Amazing guide man, best I've read so far. Practically taught me how to jungle, keep it up dude!

SyyRaaaN

08-30-2009, 05:04 PM

This is a very nice guide indeed. There are two things worth mentioning though so we can end all the "why is legionnare weaker in HoN than Dota" questions! .

1. Axe cannot double spin. The animation has to be completed before the next spin can go off. I tested this myself, no 2x spins. This is the main reason he is weaker than in dota.

2. Axe cannot spin while stunned. Need to be 100% confirmed.

JAMALSMITH

08-30-2009, 05:12 PM

I was in the jungle, fighting a camp of 6 creeps and then i got ganked by 2 heroes. I taunted them both and got no spins for the whole ~5 seconds i was next to them.

Then, later, I ran into the middle of a teamfight with ~10 of their creeps and the 5 heroes, taunted, and they just whacked me to death. Not a single spin... ever.

i just finished a game, with those similar instances happening to me.

i initiated a fight with 3 heroes and 5+ creeps, used blink+taunt, and got maybe one spin.

lol, random

thebadger_j

08-30-2009, 10:49 PM

i just finished a game, with those similar instances happening to me.

i initiated a fight with 3 heroes and 5+ creeps, used blink+taunt, and got maybe one spin.

lol, random
Do you ever get the feeling that when YOU play axe you NEVER spin, but when your opponent plays axe if you LOOK at him he spins about 50 times?

I get that feeling alot :P

Sheapy1

08-30-2009, 11:03 PM

If you manage to get a lot of Catman camps before level 4 what do you do? Double stack and tackle them or just QQ and go lane?

MarioMCP

08-31-2009, 01:26 AM

Very nice guide. Also, I like to think Axe as one of my mains, and i can confidently say... I almost never spin when i need it D:

I've missed so many first bloods at like level 2 or 3, because i don't get 1 spin when taunting a hero + 4 or 5 creeps.

Makes me sad.

Also, check out my signature, It makes me laugh when i think about it, and i get a bit of a spin-spree while playing.

Utred

08-31-2009, 04:43 AM

I played legionaire for the first time yesterday, and everything went awesome.
But then Magebane started participating in team fights, I couldn't do anything. It was horrible. I had to run whenever I saw him.
I blame the absence of a beard.

ElementUser

08-31-2009, 08:20 AM

Do you ever get the feeling that when YOU play axe you NEVER spin, but when your opponent plays axe if you LOOK at him he spins about 50 times?

I get that feeling alot :P

My spin luck is pretty decent these days actually O.o

If you manage to get a lot of Catman camps before level 4 what do you do? Double stack and tackle them or just QQ and go lane?

You shouldn't be stacking hard camps before level 5. Stick with the medium camps & ignore the hard ones (unless there are Skeletons/Vultures). Catmen + Vultures don't spawn in medium camps. However there is a chance that you'll get double Minotaurs or Minotaur+Wolves. When that happens, level up to level 5 first and then take them on with full/near full HP. If the camp is pullable to the lane, I'd do that to deny 1-2 full creep waves for your team.

I played legionaire for the first time yesterday, and everything went awesome.
But then Magebane started participating in team fights, I couldn't do anything. It was horrible. I had to run whenever I saw him.
I blame the absence of a beard.

Magebane shouldn't hurt you that much unless your team let him farm too much :(.

Gnermo

08-31-2009, 11:01 AM

Anyone else have a problem fighting Legionnaire and his terribly overpowered Terrify?

I always die if its cast on me, no matter what, because he will kill all the creeps with his axe and then run up to me so I hardly have a choice but run..

Griddler

08-31-2009, 11:31 AM

Utred

08-31-2009, 12:34 PM

Magebane shouldn't hurt you that much unless your team let him farm too much :(.
He was 2 levels below me when I first met him and I had no chance vs him. He raped my mana so fast. And then he got fed quite a lot and carried the game >_<

ElementUser

08-31-2009, 01:28 PM

I had never jungled before reading this guide, and was surprised to see that even a noob like me could lvl 6 insanely fast in jungle.

One thing people should know - when you pull a camp always attack the strongest creep with your normal attacks. Let the weaker ones beat on you as long as possible to proc more spins.

i.e. when you go minotaur camp, attack the minotaur. Also always double pull if its a tough camp. 1v1 minotaur will make your tears flow like a river, but if you pull him out then walk in so you have 4-5 total creeps hitting you, he is much much easier.

Yes, I mentioned that general tip in my guide (but thanks for pointing it out anyway). I didn't explain it as in-depth as you did though lol, thought it would be common sense :P.

One thing that I would like to know is the efficiency of creep stacking vs killing a wave and moving on. Like you pull at 1:55, have the camp mopped up at 2:15 or so... should you wait the 30s at the next camp to double pull, or just pull it and hope you can get to a 3rd spot for a double pull?

i.e. you would go like... stack, single, stack, single to optimize your time as best as you can?

It depends entirely on what creeps you get, your level, your items & whether the allied lane can handle the enemy lane when you're pulling (and whether you're Legion or Hellbourne). If you prefer to stack the pullable camp on Legion instead of stacking the easy camp & leveling up to level 2, that's fine.

So basically, everything is situational. It's really hard to say what the optimal method would be due to all the variables, so adapt and jungle accordingly from there.

He was 2 levels below me when I first met him and I had no chance vs him. He raped my mana so fast. And then he got fed quite a lot and carried the game >_<

Not much you can do if your team fed their carry :(. If you know you're going to be Taunting a Magebane in a teamfight (along with other enemy heroes), blow all your mana before he can burn it (yes, even Decapitate - it has a very low cooldown so don't fret).

Anyone else have a problem fighting Legionnaire and his terribly overpowered Terrify?

I always die if its cast on me, no matter what, because he will kill all the creeps with his axe and then run up to me so I hardly have a choice but run..

Depends on your hero & your lane. But just improve your last-hit skills. Besides, Legionnaires who get Terrify early sacrifice Taunt or Whirling Blade.

By the way, approximately 160 CS by 20 minutes from the jungle :D (Hellbourne)

quantum714

09-01-2009, 04:06 PM

Great guide. Tried it a few times with a few variations of my own.

One problem, is it possible to raise your brightness a bit before you take screenshots please?

ElementUser

09-01-2009, 04:10 PM

Great guide. Tried it a few times with a few variations of my own.

One problem, is it possible to raise your brightness a bit before you take screenshots please?

What's wrong with the brightness? :(
It looks fine to me (though maybe it's because I'm viewing the game at that level of brightness all the time).

GamersThumb

09-01-2009, 04:39 PM

Well made and thorough guide.

Oathbreaker

09-01-2009, 04:40 PM

Awesome guide thank you!

With just a little single-player practice and this guide I went from being completely wary of legionaire - and jungling in general - to dominating a few games with him.

Nice.

[EDIT: OMGOMGOMG My 100th post! I'd like to thank the nice folks at S2, ElementUser for this thread, and of course my employer that is paying me to sit on my ass with an internet connection.
Man I'm just glad this wasn't a post where I was being a dick.]

Xanetos

09-01-2009, 06:34 PM

ElementUser

09-02-2009, 08:02 AM

Hey bud, nice guide, recourseful, though i disagree some with terrify, i think lvl 1 is useful at lvl 4 for annoying people getting away with 5 hp, tends to happen alot with my luck, anyhow, nice guide, cya ingame.

That's because you're laning against newbies who can't last-hit & not jungling like a pro :D

belendel

09-02-2009, 11:40 AM

What do you do with the second iron buckler? Do you turn it into a second helm of the black legion or just keep it in your inventory and get rid of it later?

ElementUser

09-02-2009, 01:29 PM

What do you do with the second iron buckler? Do you turn it into a second helm of the black legion or just keep it in your inventory and get rid of it later?

Keep it until you get your Helm of the Black Legion, sell whenever you need more space for other items. Never get a second Helm of the Black Legion

flante

09-03-2009, 03:00 AM

++ Great guide, I thought I knew how to jungle with axe in dota lol

Dederd

09-03-2009, 10:23 AM

whats the most cost effective item for handling legionnaire's mana problems? I often find myself without mana after ANY enemy encounter and i have to run back to fill my pool again. Is a manatube worth it after you have your boots/helm/headdress (could be made into a stormspirit for mobility and a disable later on.. ?)

EDIT: until we get magic wand, of course

ElementUser

09-03-2009, 11:30 AM

ElementUser

09-03-2009, 07:17 PM

Updated with a tree-less double creep stack tactic (only works in the Legion jungle & under 1 condition)

Icelf

09-05-2009, 01:05 PM

Just played a game where my team told me I could not jungle as Legionnaire because he was terrible at it.

Hit level 6 in 4:30.

http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/9536/level6in430.jpg

ElementUser

09-05-2009, 01:06 PM

Just played a game where my team told me I could not jungle as Legionnaire because he was terrible at it.

Hit level 6 in 4:30.

Glad to see people have better luck/skill at jungling Legionnaire than me lol

Utred

09-05-2009, 02:30 PM

Wow. Nice one.

Sawk

09-05-2009, 02:40 PM

Its all about how many times your whirling blade skill procs - I have the worst luck -_-
Sometimes he just wont SPIN!~

Valonsire

09-05-2009, 08:11 PM

any reason i got ALOT of bandwith exceeded pics instead of the actual item pics?

ElementUser

09-05-2009, 08:36 PM

any reason i got ALOT of bandwith exceeded pics instead of the actual item pics?

Darn it, those images weren't uploaded by me :(.

EDIT: Updated image sources to the HonWiki. Should be fine now.

Icelf

09-06-2009, 01:59 PM

Ya, I had almost entirely Wild Hunters that game for some reason, with one pack of ogres and a set of wolves mixed in. Also, I did not get a minotaur spawn during my entire jungle session :).

Mueslio`

09-06-2009, 05:31 PM

Nice guide, it's helped me a lot when playing legionnare!

Keep up the good work :)

09-07-2009, 06:12 PM

I just read your guide and well... you made my nippelz hard... kthnxbai

LadyCaca

09-08-2009, 09:48 AM

ElementUser

09-08-2009, 06:15 PM

The guide is awesome, and I actually felt like leading my team into victory with Legionnaire. I do have two questions, though.

I noticed, but I am not sure that:
1) Legionnaire's Taunt works through Jereziah's Protective Charm?
2) Legionnaire's Taunt pulls Magmus out of his Steam Bath?

1) Yes.
2) Yes.

And in case you're wondering, yes it also pulls units out of invisiblity if they're in range (other than Steam Bath)

Chone

09-09-2009, 11:24 PM

My best time to hit level 6 on a real game (not practice) is now 5:36 and on the Hellbourne side too ;), I also farmed a shaman headdress and behemoth's heart by the 30 min mark as I ganked.

It was GG.

Tyggeleke

09-10-2009, 04:23 AM

LibrteORDeth

09-10-2009, 05:07 AM

If you manage to get a lot of Catman camps before level 4 what do you do? Double stack and tackle them or just QQ and go lane?
I did this a few games ago. Minotaur, Minotaur, Minotaur, Catman, or something like that at level 3 I believe, so I had to go lane :(.

ElementUser

09-10-2009, 02:38 PM

Im sorry if this was already asked/answered, but does Whirling Blade proc of of dodged attacks, as it does in DotA? If it does, wouldnt Wingblade be a decent luxury item? That is if you have enough HP to withstand the enemy's nukes.

Actually, I'm not sure...another thing to test!

I did this a few games ago. Minotaur, Minotaur, Minotaur, Catman, or something like that at level 3 I believe, so I had to go lane :(.

Once again:

DO NOT STACK HARD CAMPS EARLY

ElementUser

09-10-2009, 07:53 PM

Added some new information for Hellbourne-Side Jungling (thanks again Anx)

Tyggeleke

09-11-2009, 04:22 PM

ElementUser

09-11-2009, 07:39 PM

I just tested this myself, and it appears that Whirling Blade does in fact proc of missed attacks.
Whether Wingblade can be compared to any of the other luxury items though, remains to be seen.

http://bildr.no/thumb/486234.jpeg (http://bildr.no/view/486234)
Proof! :D

Oh yeah I forgot to answer your question in this thread, SORRY! But yeah I did test it myself. Glad to know other people are testing stuff though :)

Thanks for helping me confirm it! And actually this is useful when Talisman of Evasion comes out (so Legionnaire can use it), or if enemy heroes have a miss debuff/ranged heroes are attacking you from downhill

LibrteORDeth

09-12-2009, 12:35 AM

We have the magic wand, we have the magic wand :D
Been wanting to try it since you raved about it in here since I never played DotA, and now we get to! About to play Legionnaire and try it (had to play as Maliken my first game after the patch) will let you know how I do.

Isin

09-12-2009, 12:46 AM

I don't think so, because I haven't seen it done yet. You'll need a tree-clearing spell (or quite a few tangoes) to even have a hope of doing it. By hard/medium I assume you mean the pullable camp for Hellbourne with the nearby hard camp.

I actually DID double pull Hellbourne's easy camp/hard camp nearby once (unintentionally) - I think it has to do with the aggro range and stuff, but not so sure about HoN mechanics. Anyway I think I was lucky cause the spawns were Ebula, so it's harder to lose their aggro :P.

Thanks for your support guys

You can pull the hard camp into the medium camp if you first pull the medium camp to the creeps, then there's a good chance that a ranged creep and maybe a couple of melees will follow back to the hard camp.

It's not really useful though for anything other than a free deny.

Anx

09-12-2009, 01:10 AM

So, with this new patch... unless I really am just that tired... once you eat the tree underneath the hellborne easy camp, you can't pass through... It's like there's an invisible wall there now...

Can someone else confirm/deny?

Edit: So, it was definitely happening to me in the first game i tried to do it in... I ate every tree i could and still couldn't get through... it would just path around. Seems to be working alright now though... weird...

Anx

09-12-2009, 01:24 AM

You can pull the hard camp into the medium camp if you first pull the medium camp to the creeps, then there's a good chance that a ranged creep and maybe a couple of melees will follow back to the hard camp.

It's not really useful though for anything other than a free deny.

Are you talking about double stacking them?

Because you can most definitely double stack those camps.

There's an in-depth instruction on how to do it on the first page of this guide, where ElementUser quotes me.

I'm way too tired right now... but I can fraps it in the morning.

ElementUser

09-12-2009, 10:45 AM

Are you talking about double stacking them?

Because you can most definitely double stack those camps.

He's talking about creep pulling your allied creepwave into the medium camp. Once the neutrals are almost dead (by almost, I mean they'll die in ~5 seconds), pull the hard camp into the medium one to draw the creepwave back to the hard camp. I don't really find this practical though, you'll miss out on a few creep kills because you have to pull the hard camp in advance (not to mention the timing is pretty difficult, IMO)

Also, Magic Wand icon is staying there until HoNWiki updates lol

ameleet

09-13-2009, 01:06 PM

Very good guide.
Although, I disagree with Demonic Breastplate.
Sure the armor is great, but the attackspeed goes to waste. A Plate Mail will do.

Legionnaires job is to tank and disable, not to support imo.

ElementUser

09-13-2009, 02:26 PM

Very good guide.
Although, I disagree with Demonic Breastplate.
Sure the armor is great, but the attackspeed goes to waste. A Plate Mail will do.

Well it's a luxury item for a reason, I never made it to the point where I actually considered buying Daemonic Breastplate before

Somnium

09-14-2009, 09:14 AM

ImpBloody

09-14-2009, 04:02 PM

I find myself liking this guide more and more everytime i read because of the way he not only says is an effective way for an item to work, but also shows how it is effective and how it is easy to use if used correctly, this guide should not only be a guide for those that are learning to play, but also an easy way to have a wider variety for what you already have build your items around.

feedtheid

09-15-2009, 01:58 AM

Would logger's hatchet be a good item for jungling leg early? It seems like a decent portion of his damage is still autoattack, and it takes the runes/tangos' function for cutting down trees and allows a health potion instead.

ashwa

09-15-2009, 03:23 AM

is it droppable?

ElementUser

09-15-2009, 08:24 AM

I've been getting the new 25% evasion item that was added recently (forgot it's name.Costs 1800g I think) after I get my helm, key and boots...makes sense to me but thought I'd ask if it's just a bad idea?

Not at all! After you have enough HP, Snake Bracelet is a fantastic item, seeing as how Evasion increases your EHP dramatically against physical attackers.

Would logger's hatchet be a good item for jungling leg early? It seems like a decent portion of his damage is still autoattack, and it takes the runes/tangos' function for cutting down trees and allows a health potion instead.

I've been thinking about that; if you have a courier on your team, getting a Hatchet + Iron Buckler + Healing Potion (575 Gold). If you have to buy a courier yourself, then it's better to start off with 1 Iron Buckler + 1 set of Runes of the Blight, then get your Courier to fetch you the Hatchet. It's an item I would certainly consider. I'll have to update the guide with the new items.

is it droppable?

Logger's Hatcher is droppable, but not re-sellable.

Orbiter

09-18-2009, 11:04 AM

I'm having real difficulty creep stacking the easy and medium camp on hellbourne side. Removing the recommended tree does not work for me, and no path is created through the forest.

ElementUser

09-18-2009, 11:05 AM

Orbiter

09-18-2009, 11:14 AM

Any quick tips on what to do instead? =P

ElementUser

09-18-2009, 11:19 AM

Any quick tips on what to do instead? =P

I just tried it, pathing works the same way. So try again, it should work.

cokeandhoes

09-18-2009, 06:51 PM

Is it possible to see a video of a Legionnaire being played properly with portal key, I sometimes skip it for items that allow me to tank better and I seem to do perfectly fine without it. I just can't see this as being a MUST item vs. a luxury item.

ElementUser

09-18-2009, 07:05 PM

Well if you have another initiator that's better than you, go ahead and skip it (at your discretion of course). But I can't find a game in which I do well without Portal Key (unless the enemy team is full of newbies). Either way it gives you lots of flexibility than if you don't have it, so it's core for me. I can't do anything worthwhile without it

Mueslio`

09-19-2009, 12:06 PM

Would Behemoth's Heart still be a good item after they changed the regen to only outside combat?

Santoriin

09-19-2009, 12:28 PM

Would Behemoth's Heart still be a good item after they changed the regen to only outside combat?
it still adds like 1000 health

Skyforger

09-19-2009, 02:42 PM

should i still get phase-boots after the armor was changed to attackspeed or should i get steamboots now?

ElementUser

09-19-2009, 02:54 PM

should i still get phase-boots after the armor was changed to attackspeed or should i get steamboots now?

It's up to you now, really. I think Steam Boots would be better now because it gives you armor and +10 str (or +16 int if you change them to int).

Now all 3 choices of boots are pretty viable. It's basically Phase vs. Stats/Armor vs. Mobility now

And Heart is still a pretty decent item, so it's still viable (just not as good now :()

KOCH

09-20-2009, 07:01 PM

never knew how to jungle ^^ thanks alot

simparoo

09-20-2009, 08:16 PM

I'm having real difficulty creep stacking the easy and medium camp on hellbourne side. Removing the recommended tree does not work for me, and no path is created through the forest.

You're doing the wrong tree then, it works fine.

http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/1681/hellbourn.jpg

Stunado

09-20-2009, 11:07 PM

I'm having real difficulty creep stacking the easy and medium camp on hellbourne side. Removing the recommended tree does not work for me, and no path is created through the forest.

I think this is a glitch, I had no problem double stacking the two camps, but after the tree grew back and was cut down again, It was like a solid path until the tree grew back and I could cut it down again.

Gizzleby

09-28-2009, 12:02 PM

ElementUser

09-28-2009, 06:38 PM

I have to admit, way better than glorifies guide which I read before yours. The jungling phase is near perfection and your item build is very well thought of. As I do not understand the controversy with HotBL (Vanguard) since in HoN it is a better item than dota (blocks damage after considering armor), I get it every time on Legionnaire since it gives you immense survivability in the jungle or if you do not jungle helps to boost your early game on the lane.

Thanks!

Admittedly, I tried rushing Headdress first and then getting HotBL (or parts of it) first, and the HotBL works much better IMO. Even against a team full of nukers/mostly nukers, you don't have enough +HP at the beginning to withstand many nukes, Headdress or no Headdress

Gizzleby

09-29-2009, 06:27 PM

just thought of some simple maths

say you play legionnaire, you farm pretty well and by lvl 7 to 8 you got your item either headdress or helm (about same cost)

protection from nukes in early levels from headdress

Legio got 948 hp
say pyro nukes him with a total of his skills (lets say hes lvl 9 soloing mid)
-> 1010 magic dmg

948 - (1010 - (1010 * 0.48)) = 948 - 525 = 423 hp

protection from nukes in early levels from HotBL

Legio got 1248 hp
again there comes pyro and does his insane 1010 magic dmg :D

1248 - (1010 - (1010 *0.25)) = 1248 - 757.5 = 490.5 hp

which goes along with some nice protection from creeps and autohits

ElementUser

10-03-2009, 10:34 AM

The new Behemoth's Heart is now very viable (not as imba as the old one, but still pretty good) for Legionnaire! CELEBRATE

Steam Boots got a nerf, but I still think it's pretty good on Legionnaire. Phase Boots now have a better place for him though, in case you're having trouble farming up Portal Key (only as a major fallback item though...)

Ajsbrejker

10-03-2009, 11:58 AM

Really nice guide! Keep it up

SWARM_THEM

10-03-2009, 07:57 PM

ElementUser

10-03-2009, 08:30 PM

What, where? Legion or Hellbourne jungle?

SWARM_THEM

10-03-2009, 11:26 PM

What, where? Legion or Hellbourne jungle?
it was both sides, but now i just logged in, a few hours later, went into practice mode, and was able to pull again the normal ways. the invis wall wasn't in my way anymore. weird, i have no idea what changed. either way, false alarm.

stuartb

10-04-2009, 06:44 AM

i just played a game as legion and double stacked just fine by eating a tree.

sYthex

10-04-2009, 10:05 AM

Btw, I can pretty much confirm that Decapitate Does NOT go through Accursed's ult.

RogerDodger

10-04-2009, 10:23 AM

Btw, I can pretty much confirm that Decapitate Does NOT go through Accursed's ult.
Well you're doing it wrong.

Sahyduna

10-04-2009, 10:37 AM

Btw, I can pretty much confirm that Decapitate Does NOT go through Accursed's ult.

No you cant. Because its false.

Play more and stop inducing people wrong.

ElementUser

10-04-2009, 11:56 AM

Btw, I can pretty much confirm that Decapitate Does NOT go through Accursed's ult.

It goes through Accursed's ultimate. He must have had some sort of burst HP (Power Supply, Mana Battery, Insanitarius, Astrolobe, allied heals) and/or he healed HP past the HP threshold and you timed it wrong

Warbler

10-04-2009, 06:50 PM

This is probably the most useful guide I've read. Others just give you a build and a list of items, but tips on jungling make this one a lot better. :]

Murie

10-05-2009, 12:27 PM

Really like your jungling guide, and even though he has no beard I think Legionnaire is pretty badass.

10-05-2009, 05:46 PM

before the latest patch, i was able to stack two camps at a time via eating trees, no problem. but now after the patch which introduced panda, suddenly i can't walk through the gap created by the eaten tree, and neither can the neutral creeps. did S2 change the map so there are invis boundaries around the creep spawns now?

OK, I just tried jungling lego for the first time last night, and had this same problem. I ate the tree, as seen at 0:15 in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3k27oRtKxPQ, but could not go into the circle. I ended up eating all the trees around it, but it was like there was an invisible wall I couldn't go through.

lamzor

10-05-2009, 07:26 PM

nice guide thx.

LegoPirate

10-05-2009, 07:36 PM

nice guide. i use the creepstacking strat whenever i play him.

hollatime

10-05-2009, 08:56 PM

OK, I just tried jungling lego for the first time last night, and had this same problem. I ate the tree, as seen at 0:15 in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3k27oRtKxPQ, but could not go into the circle. I ended up eating all the trees around it, but it was like there was an invisible wall I couldn't go through.

I've ran into this issue as well sometimes, and other times it works just fine. Really odd.

ditz

10-05-2009, 10:48 PM

I think you missed nymphora since her 2nd skill got buffed up to be like chakra like Keeper of the Light. Sure nymphora is good with almost any hero but with axe its just sick.

Taunt -> Volatile Pod -> Boomerang thingy -> Culling

She pretty much solves mana problems and health problems, I know your guide is jungling but still I feel she's too good not to be listed.

Another thing I don't really think that Barbed Armor is a thing to avoid completely more situational since it reflects everything, spells, crit etc. There will still be those times when that late game carry would still farm like hell and the reflect will probably do more damage to them since you'd probably have more life.

overall nice jungling guide gonna try it

Exalion

10-06-2009, 07:52 AM

I was playing demented shaman the other day, and there was an idiot legionnaire on the opposing side.

PROTIP: Do not cast terrify on a healer with the one of the best auto attacks in the game.

He'd cast it and I'd shrug it off immediately by last hitting one of the 10 000 creeps around us in the clash. If that took too long I'd then heal the damage. In conclusion: that legio was a fool.

Dukamok

10-06-2009, 01:16 PM

PROTIP: Do not cast terrify
Fixed

LibrtiORDeth

10-06-2009, 02:16 PM

before the latest patch, i was able to stack two camps at a time via eating trees, no problem. but now after the patch which introduced panda, suddenly i can't walk through the gap created by the eaten tree, and neither can the neutral creeps. did S2 change the map so there are invis boundaries around the creep spawns now?
I've gotten this occasionally recently. I assume it's just a glitch, since most of the time it works as normal.
Also, +1 to the post above me. I play so many games with a Legionnaire who would level terrify after I tell him not to, and when he gets a kill with it and says "see?" all I can do is facepalm.

SWARM_THEM

10-06-2009, 07:52 PM

OK, I just tried jungling lego for the first time last night, and had this same problem. I ate the tree, as seen at 0:15 in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3k27oRtKxPQ, but could not go into the circle. I ended up eating all the trees around it, but it was like there was an invisible wall I couldn't go through.
to the people who also encountered this weird glitch, did it happen after a remake? mine happened after a remake, i think.

Kjaska

10-06-2009, 08:01 PM

10-06-2009, 09:29 PM

Can I suggest you add the creep interception method between t1 and t2 tower on the enemy short lane to your wonderful guide? It's somewhat advanced, but it nets your team a fast tower kill and often a first blood. With a good lane partner it is even viable against ranged heroes. If the enemy team has more than 2 melee heroes, I usually end up with a 8-10 minute dagger/portal key.

Someone pulled this on me once, and it was very befuddling. I'm admittedly very bad at the game, but I have absorbed as much as I can from these forums, and I had no idea how to adapt to it.

Is the motivation for this tactic specific to Legionnaire, because he can whirl opposing creeps groups, and thus get copious last hits?

What hero characteristics make for a good parter to do this with? Specifically which partner would be best?

What should I do if I go to my lane and find an opposing Legionnaire using this tactic?

ElementUser

10-06-2009, 09:54 PM

Can I suggest you add the creep interception method between t1 and t2 tower on the enemy short lane to your wonderful guide? It's somewhat advanced, but it nets your team a fast tower kill and often a first blood. With a good lane partner it is even viable against ranged heroes. If the enemy team has more than 2 melee heroes, I usually end up with a 8-10 minute dagger/portal key.

I'm not going to add that section because I myself don't think it's a very good strategy (and have not tried it). Yes given the right teammates like Demented Shaman + Glacius or something with 2 other good solos, it's quite good. Unless you post a video that convinces me of course!

Offensive laning ranged partners that can stun the enemy are generally good for Legionnaire, so he can chain with Taunt

Volshok

10-06-2009, 10:32 PM

Someone pulled this on me once, and it was very befuddling. I'm admittedly very bad at the game, but I have absorbed as much as I can from these forums, and I had no idea how to adapt to it.

Is the motivation for this tactic specific to Legionnaire, because he can whirl opposing creeps groups, and thus get copious last hits?

What hero characteristics make for a good parter to do this with? Specifically which partner would be best?

What should I do if I go to my lane and find an opposing Legionnaire using this tactic?

Any decent lane will rip this strategy apart imo. The last time I saw someone try this it was against Pest / Demented, and let's just say it went poorly. Succubus / Valk would also be hilarious. Against players who understand the basics of the game this plan is failure imo. Although like the above post, if you can show concrete evidence of this working against good players it would be good to share.

Kjaska

10-07-2009, 07:40 AM

If I see, that the enemy has a lot of nasty ranged, then I'm not picking Legio anyway. But it can work even on ranged heroes, because even ranged heroes try to block their creeps in the short lane. That's when you come out of their forest suddenly and start to spin. A ranged with a stun might still be able to escape, but so can you - with 2 shields and a potion you still have the option to retreat to their forest and start jungling there, then move to your forest eventually.

I cannot provide a video of this in action right now and I highly recommend you try it out for yourselves, because executing this move was the most exciting time I had in HoN so far.:)

zip0x

10-07-2009, 08:05 AM

good heroes

dalthium

10-11-2009, 07:03 PM

the 3:45 video is meaningless he has 990 gold worth of items when startng the game. upgraded courier is not possible to get with 2 shields and trees even in a random.

ElementUser

10-11-2009, 07:05 PM

the 3:45 video is meaningless he has 990 gold worth of items when startng the game. upgraded courier is not possible to get with 2 shields and trees even in a random.

I guess he assumed that an ally will buy it for him. Either way it's still a good video

Cow

10-13-2009, 09:45 AM

If no one said it yet, I will tell why he has no beard. His model is an exact copy of the Leggionaire in Savage 1, and that Leggionaire didnt include a beard.

Jucc

10-13-2009, 03:41 PM

wow, never thought of going jungle with Legionnaire.
nice guide, pro shizz

archangel565

10-14-2009, 12:25 AM

firstly love this guide really helped with the creep stacking very very helpful

guygin you get enhanced marchers so when chasing someone down a lane you dont get blocked by creeps and also armour bonus. when you get a blink with enhanced it becomes quiet easy to get from one side of the map to the other so not really needing post haste

demented shaman would be legionairs best partner to lane with when you creep skip, entangle>taunt>healingwave>decapitate

Surili

10-14-2009, 04:32 PM

As a long term ex-dota player, and a local on the strategy forums, i have read quite a few of thisisbob's guides, and this pays homage to the master in excellent fashion. Seriously though, this is truly a perfect example of what a guide should do: clearly and concisely set out what the writer suggests we do, and then, more importantly, makes one really, really want to play the hero!

Thanks.

Mireigi

10-15-2009, 03:32 AM

I was playing as Legionnaire yesterday on Hellbourne side and went for a double creep stack right off the bat (the one with eating a three). But when I pulled the easy creeps @00:51 and hauled ass over to the nearby left medium creeps, the easy creeps walked back just as I got to the medium creeps, thus preventing the easy creeps to stack up.

I tried again @01:52 thinking that I might have pulled too early, but the result was the same: No double stacking.

I could do it perfectly before patch 1.49 but now I can't do it anymore. Did they change the timer telling creeps to return to spawnlocation or am I just unlucky?

I will test it myself tonight, but would like some confirmation so that my findings are not just a fluke.

Poffeman91

10-15-2009, 08:23 AM

Galneryus

10-15-2009, 09:40 AM

OMG, Leggionaire is SO AMAZING! I always have a good game when I pick him.

ElementUser

10-15-2009, 09:43 AM

OMG, Leggionaire is SO AMAZING! I always have a good game when I pick him.

Yeah they changed it so that Legionnaire's Whirling Blade will proc at the beginning of the enemy attack animation, rather than at projectile impact time. Aka a nice buff for Legionnaire (this makes him match his DotA counterpart a bit more.....he'll always lack a beard though)

jtown

10-15-2009, 12:32 PM

ElementUser

10-15-2009, 01:26 PM

I will point out that if you lane with legio instead of jungling it is beneficial for you to put a few points in the terror ability (the dot) its a very good first blood tool combined with whirling blade

It's actually not, especially not in the beginning. Your mana pool is already horribly tiny, why would you want to make it even smaller?

Mireigi

10-15-2009, 06:36 PM

It still works. I've been doing it for the past few days.
Yeah, I tested it tonight and it seemed to work ok if pulling the easy camp at xx:52 and pulling the medium camp at xx:56. That gives just enough time to get both creep camps stacked. I's a close one though.

It's actually not, especially not in the beginning. Your mana pool is already horribly tiny, why would you want to make it even smaller?
Legionnaire can actually be a good laner if paired with someone who can stun/control enemy heroes. One of my favorites are Legionnaire + Behemoth, it's usually a sure kill at lvl 2. Most people also fear Legionnaire early game.

However, I agree that Legionnaire is better suited for the forest and then popping out every now and again for a gank. An early game kill is hardly worth the loss in experience gained for both heroes.

ElementUser

10-15-2009, 07:37 PM

Legionnaire can actually be a good laner if paired with someone who can stun/control enemy heroes. One of my favorites are Legionnaire + Behemoth, it's usually a sure kill at lvl 2. Most people also fear Legionnaire early game.

However, I agree that Legionnaire is better suited for the forest and then popping out every now and again for a gank. An early game kill is hardly worth the loss in experience gained for both heroes.

Sorry I wasn't being clear, I meant to say that getting Terrify early is not a good idea. Laning Legionnaire is fine if you can't jungle/shouldn't jungle

Ecole

10-15-2009, 08:44 PM

Element, update your guide. It still says Geo comes from Nullfire lol. Other than that awesome guide. A real tribute to thisisBob.

ElementUser

10-15-2009, 08:55 PM

Updated, didn't notice that subtle detail :P

Dederd

10-17-2009, 06:17 PM

Yeah they changed it so that Legionnaire's Whirling Blade will proc at the beginning of the enemy attack animation, rather than at projectile impact time.

what exactly does this change do for you?

ForTheSwarm

10-17-2009, 06:26 PM

Your stats for Terrify are outdated. Change them, or are they too unmanly to fix? :P

ElementUser

10-17-2009, 09:00 PM

what exactly does this change do for you?

You'll potentially proc spins faster when many ranged units are attacking you, then the cooldown will reset faster, repeat cycle, etc.

It's a buff, and it now matches Axe's Counter Helix.

Yeah I'll fix Terrify

Mireigi

10-25-2009, 04:29 PM

I love playing Legionnaire and always ask to swap him if possible.

However, I have some problems when facing Maliken or Predator. They both rape me in seconds.

Normally I build items as this (in the order they finish):
Portal Key
Black Helm of the Legion
Sacrificial Stone
Steam Boots
Frostfield Plate

What do you suggest doing against said heroes, and would it be more beneficial, with the buff to Whirling Blades, to replace Frostfield Plate with Wingbow and losing the slow aura?

ElementUser

10-25-2009, 05:10 PM

Sacrificial Stone? I guess if you're dying a lot you can get it.....but if you're dying a lot you can't afford that many things anyway :x

Armor reduces the damage from the Carnivorous, not much more you can do against that. Once Maliken gets some items and goes into his ultimate form, he puts out a lot of DPS, so there isn't much you can do against that either.

For Wingbow vs Frostfield Plate, Frostfield Plate is still better for the majority of mid/late-game because it basically grants you unlimited mana & gives you another snare. All Wingbow really gives you is Evasion, and the Talisman of Evasion item itself is sufficient if you just want Evasion. I find Legionnaire's item slots to be occupied all of the time though.

Vehemens

10-27-2009, 02:09 PM

pantslol

10-27-2009, 06:02 PM

hey im pretty new, but i'm trying to do the double creep stacking with the far right camps (legion side)

I destroy the tree above the bottom camp, pull top at 51 then run down to agro the next, but cant get through the gap, i've tried cutting down both the suggested trees and i still cant get through.

Im using the loggers hatchet rather than runes, do I need to use runes or has this been changed in a patch since the first post has been updated?

Thanks

ElementUser

10-27-2009, 06:31 PM

Great strategy :) Been wanting to master jungling but never really got the hang of it.
Can't wait to try it again now ;)

btw, I probably should've known the answer of this by now, but does the same creeps keep spawning at the same camps, troughout the game?

Nope, different types of creeps spawn in each camp. There is a chance that you'll get the same creeps consecutively though.

Oh and me+Idejder found and confirmed the invisible wall bug. Do not try this in a remade game - the treeline boundries will still be in play, which prevents you from walking through those trees even after they've been cut.

Added that note to FAQ

DownandDirty

10-29-2009, 10:00 PM

ElementUser

10-30-2009, 09:40 AM

This guide is poo without terrify. if you dont understand the power of that skill you should not be writing guides. it does near 700 damage at level 4. its great for people running away from you. easiest thing to do is farm blink. Blink - call smash smash they run terror let them run they die. you would be surprised how many people live with fug all hitpoints from a team fight. best damage per mana spell in the game.
Espicially good if your jungling and they push to tower to far. take a couple of tower hits and are on half health. you run behind them terror and call them. gg

Best damage/mana spell means nothing when you don't have the mana to use it early game. And when its usefulness greatly diminishes later on.

Maybe write your own guide if you think Terrify is so good. If you feel that the situations you laid out happen too often, you can get Terrify if you feel your mana pool/HP pool is good enough at that point in time

SyyRaaaN

10-30-2009, 12:41 PM

He called your guide poo :D. Hahahahaha. Im laughing my ass off here.

The best part is that he thinks its poo because you dont recommend BH. Haha, awesome.

Dyzfunkshun

10-30-2009, 05:40 PM

This guide is poo without terrify. if you dont understand the power of that skill you should not be writing guides. it does near 700 damage at level 4. its great for people running away from you. easiest thing to do is farm blink. Blink - call smash smash they run terror let them run they die. you would be surprised how many people live with fug all hitpoints from a team fight. best damage per mana spell in the game.
Espicially good if your jungling and they push to tower to far. take a couple of tower hits and are on half health. you run behind them terror and call them. gg
I hear killing a creep is a difficult feat to pull off, and happens very infrequently during the course of a game. Discuss.

Deadrin

10-31-2009, 12:27 AM

I have been following this guide and I have been doing pretty good with it. Well during my last game I had the guy constantly bashing me cause I was building towards helm of the black legion before portal. Because I had the lifetube. I normally get the lifetube then work towards portal in that order. Then they started making fun of my iron shield. I had some extra money so I upgrade one of my shields to the iron shield. They laughed at me because I didnt have portal key by the 20min mark in the game. I decided to put it off for the life tube to help my farm. By end game I had shamans headress, portal, helm of legion, and marchers.

And this team kept bashing me all game. I personally think they had no idea what they were doing because they kept feeding.

Once I had my items we pushed and won, but up to that point they were qq all game to me. So am I noob? I personally feel if I want to put off portal key to help my farm then it should be my decision.

ElementUser

10-31-2009, 10:14 AM

You're fine, item builds aren't set in stone

DImported

10-31-2009, 11:22 PM

Great guide. I've only recently figured out how to creep stack, but now I know how to do it properly.

XTenebrousX

11-06-2009, 04:38 PM

nyxon

11-06-2009, 07:19 PM

hey mates!. i got a question here.

Does 2 Black Helm of the Legion stuck?
Can u combo iron B and Black Helm of the Legion?

If you can, can you response also in a math way as you did with iron B.

//Nyxon

ElementUser

11-06-2009, 07:29 PM

Thanks for teaching me how to jungle properly!

One question: Is it viable for Legionnaire to get Alchemist Bones for getting money faster? The attack speed wouldn't be too bad either would it?

If so/not, does it depend on the gamemode (Ap, apem, etc)?

Cheers.

No - Legionnaire needs his defensive items to yield lots of gold in jungle while sustaining it at the same time. You don't need attack speed or Alchemist's Bones to speed up your jungling.

hey mates!. i got a question here.

Does 2 Black Helm of the Legion stuck?
Can u combo iron B and Black Helm of the Legion?

If you can, can you response also in a math way as you did with iron B.

//Nyxon

Yes they stack. If you stack 2x HotBL, you'll get a 91% chance to block 40 damage. This is not recommended because you spend 2k+ gold on another defensive item you don't need (you can buy a Portal Key with that gold) and because the 21% chance increase to block 40 damage is negligible. It fails in terms of a multitude of items you could have gotten with the 2k+ gold.

According to someone else's tests for Iron Shield + HotBL stacking, Iron Shield will always proc if a hero is attacking you - so don't get both Iron Shield & HotBL for any hero. If a creep attacks you, the block chances are independent but still stack diminishingly (according to the same formula I used in the guide).

Dybdal

11-08-2009, 05:22 PM

i've got a question for legion side jungeling that i hope you would answer for me as ive had alot of problems jungeling legionaire effectively on that side.

When i start the game, i allmost allways have the crappy'est luck and i wont get any skeleton camps at all..

I then double stack the yellow and procede to double stack the 2 camps you can stack using a tango, but for the love of me i just stand there farming the yellow camp until lvl 3 feeling im doing something horribly wrong.. when i hit 4-5ish i start tackling the double stacked camps.

Am i doing it wrong? or should i aim to do something different when i dont get a skellie camp?

ElementUser

11-08-2009, 05:55 PM

Don't rely on Skeleton Camps, that's just a bonus if you can find some in the hard camp. :P

If double-stacked spawns involves Wolves/Ogres/Wild Hunters, kill those. If it's minotaur/wolves, save the camp for later (until level 5+ and only when you have near full HP)

magz

11-08-2009, 06:13 PM

ElementUser

11-08-2009, 06:41 PM

It might be worthy to note the possibility of higher avg experience gain due to being able to stack all creep camps using an illusion rune (especially at the start of the game). I had to use waypointed movements on the minimap and 3 control groups, but it worked out really nicely.

Edit: on scourge side

Edit 2: Now that I think about it, it's more of a burst exp gain unless you get multiple runes.

It really depends on what time you get the rune, your movespeed & the creep camps. If the illusion rune spawned 1st thing in the game and I manage to get it, then yes I'll use it to triple stack; otherwise, it's pretty impractical to use it because you lose time when grabbing the rune. The rune is better left to Bottle users anyway after the 1st rune.

DubaKetchup

11-12-2009, 06:21 PM

now if only runes would work on KoTF.... that bastard keeps my jungling screwed, stupid hidden enchanted trees! but i gotta say i love doing exactly that when i am tree, ^_^

Jager

11-13-2009, 10:18 AM

What are your thoughts on a RoT for mana regen(becuase his mana pool and regen is low) and a armor buff till he can get a luxury armor item?

ElementUser

11-13-2009, 11:19 AM

Jager

11-14-2009, 12:20 AM

I don't really like it, seeing as how he doesn't really spam his skills, but uses them in bursts (unless you're a Terrify Legionnaire...). RotT only gives +3 armor to heroes anyway, and armor isn't that important until mid-game or so.

There's this slot problem I always have on Legionnaire; I can never seem to fit all the items I want onto him at once :(
I missed that you get Power Supply instead to solve his mana issues(which will be why your slots are all full). I'll try that instead in a game and see how it goes. :D

deviljoker

11-19-2009, 02:28 AM

should you get 2 Helm of the Black Legion?

Mireigi

11-19-2009, 05:39 AM

should you get 2 Helm of the Black Legion?
No, that would be silly since they don't stack up to 80 damage blocked. And it will take up a much needed slot.
If you look through his guide you'll find a formula and description on how Block works.

Mireigi

11-19-2009, 06:06 AM

ElementUser:

Do you also find it more convenient to forest on Hellbourne side? It's so easy to stack creeps there in multiple camps at once compared to Legion.

So far, the only viable way of foresting on Legion I have found is (first 5 minutes):
~00:53 Stack easy camp
~01:0x Kill easy camp (Gain Level 2)
~01:51 Stack the two medium camps
~02:05 Kill easy camp
~02:42 Pull the medium "lane camp" to lane, keeping creeps out of camp so it respawns (Gain Level 3)
~03:03 Kill easy camp
~03:17 Kill the medium river camp (Gain Level 4)
~03:46 Pull the medium lane camp to lane, keeping creeps out of camp so it respawns (Gain Level 5)
~04:05 Kill easy camp
~04:27 Kill medium river camp
~04:53 Stack medium lane camp and kill it (Gain Level 6)

However, I feel like it's not the Legionnaire way to do it since I rely on lane creeps more than my own abilities.

On Hellbourne I can manage to double stack the medium river camp, easy camp, west hard camp and medium lane camp 90% of the time, giving me:
1 x Medium lane camp
2 x Double spawned easy camp
2 x Double spawned medium lane camp
1 x Double spawned west hard camp
1 x Tripple spawned medium river camp

I often have time to spare and often hit Level 6 after 4-4? minutes. A LOT faster than Legion side.

Do you have any pointers you can give for effectively soloing forest on Legion side and hitting Level 6 in less than 5 minutes? Preferably non-EM.

ElementUser

11-19-2009, 07:36 AM

Which 2 medium camps do you stack at 01:51? Do you mean the easy & medium camp?

I haven't played Legionnaire in a while, so I can't really say :(.

Mireigi

11-19-2009, 07:56 AM

The Medium camps close to the River and Lane. You have to eat a three to get to the Lane one from the River one.

http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/5904/treeovu.jpg

ElementUser

11-19-2009, 09:17 AM

Oh I thought you were talking about Hellbourne forest in your little timeline. Yay for reading stuff early in the morning

JolToN49

11-19-2009, 07:31 PM

heres a cool tip that works for me! If you pull the top creeps and stand right next to the tree circled in red, your swirl will aggro the neutral creeps at the bottom camp and they'll run around to you. If you time it right you can double spawn both camps without eating a tree!....of course u'll want to eat one after thoughhttp://img43.imageshack.us/img43/5904/treeovu.jpg

ElementUser

11-19-2009, 09:01 PM

^Only works if the camp is not composed of solely a single Minotaur + Goatar camp, as I have mentioned in my guide.

SockMonkeh

11-20-2009, 03:42 PM

I don't know if I have posted in this thread already but I would just like to say that I followed this guide back when I first started playing Legionnaire. He is the first hero that I learned to play well and is really the only hero that I can really rock **** with now (though I can hold my own with some others). This was a phenomenal guide to follow.

hzzzln

11-21-2009, 05:36 AM

http://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/b/bc/Barbed_Armoritem.gif/60px-Barbed_Armoritem.gif
Barbed Armor

This may look good on Legionnaire, but your amazing armor boost from Taunt makes this reflect little damage, not to mention that the damage reflected is already reduced by magic armor.

did you actually try it out?

armor bonus or not, barbed armor EATS dps carrys for breakfast. most carrys dont have the hp to support their own damage, they are dead before they even notice.

and, afaik, it deals true damage. and did you know? it reflects spells, to. byebye pyro.

i buy it almost everytime with legio

Warzzo

11-21-2009, 06:53 AM

Bah. I picked legio and was pretty hard lane so i wanted wood. But predator insisted he wanted woods. I said legio is better when stacking double spawns etc but he said no....

ElementUser

11-21-2009, 09:21 AM

did you actually try it out?

armor bonus or not, barbed armor EATS dps carrys for breakfast. most carrys dont have the hp to support their own damage, they are dead before they even notice.

and, afaik, it deals true damage. and did you know? it reflects spells, to. byebye pyro.

i buy it almost everytime with legio

Obviously I know all of that, it's just that it eats up an item slot (which are valuable to Legionnaire). I can always find better alternatives than Barbed Armor to take up that one slot. When I said "damage is already reduced by magic armor", I mean you reflect the damage taken as true damage (damage taken = damage after all types of damage reduction).

Updated the guide; scrapped Steam Boots & Ghost Marchers for Plated Greaves! :)

Gowerly

11-23-2009, 09:47 AM

Question about greaves: They have an activatable that you can keep up all the time (if you're in jungle, then you don't need your other skills so much, so the drain isn't so bad), that blocks 10 damage from every shot.
Does this proc instead of Helm, or can helm still proc, or do they stack?

ElementUser

11-23-2009, 02:56 PM

It procs whenever Iron Buckler/HotBL doesn't proc

Gowerly

11-24-2009, 04:43 AM

Cool. Thanks.

Lolololage

11-24-2009, 06:53 AM

I was thinking about your list of good allies and one which i find really usefull is torturer.

All 4 of his skills work with taunt so well.

A: A double combo taunt/stun
B: An ability that hits everything near target and taunt making all targets converge.
C: Impalement + double stun = lots a' damage
D: An ulti that hits everything in a small radius combined with keeping everyone in the same small radius for 3-4 seconds (or more?!)

ElementUser

11-24-2009, 09:03 AM

I'm not going to list every single nuker/DPS hero, but you're right about Torturer.

But I'm still not going to add anymore heroes to that list

Lolololage

11-24-2009, 10:19 AM

I'm not going to list every single nuker/DPS hero, but you're right about Torturer.

But I'm still not going to add anymore heroes to that list

Yea i realise that every nuker is a bit much, just seemed to me that torturer stood out above the rest.

Tbake

11-24-2009, 10:21 PM

Legionnaire is not a competitive hero right?

Mireigi

11-25-2009, 05:51 AM

Legionnaire is not a competitive hero right?
I believe that he IS competitive.

He's an excellent initiator and make the life so much easier for teammates who depend on a few seconds to get their stuff running (Tempest and Magmus comes to mind).

Lategame he's more initiator than tank, but early and mid game he's probably the strongest hero on your team, assuming that he's played well.

ElementUser

11-25-2009, 06:37 AM

Ever since Maliken was introduced, I feel as though Legionnaire's power decreased :(

Not that Legionnaire actually got weaker, it just seems like he did

Mireigi

11-25-2009, 07:40 AM

Ever since Maliken was introduced, I feel as though Legionnaire's power decreased :(

Not that Legionnaire actually got weaker, it just seems like he did

I know what you mean. I usually consider the game lost if I'm playing against Maliken and we don't have any good counters against him. Even with all my Legionnaires manliness I can't do anything about Maliken save taunt him for 3.5 seconds and then watch him butcher my team.