The Summoner - Sordak's Version

[Sordak]

EDIT! LOOK AT BELOW POST FOR GAMEPLAY DETAILS!




Ok this is a basic overview of my suggestion i will add more details , numbers ald pictures soon, basicaly i wanted to wait till i have more details but i cant wait to post this :D

So i want to make the Summoner into a support heroe no need for another carry.

Look: if im able to i will post a drawing of what i have in mind currently, since we already have the generic green Snake already in game (slither) i want him to look different. About the skin / scale colour i thought it could be something like this http://www.sfuniverse.com/files/2008/09/primeval-7-02.jpg maybe some more white, i wish i could discribe it better but i suck at discribing.
As for armor i think about some coat made of Feathers and some light armor parts similar too those in Savage 2 made of leather and fur of animals. He could also wear a Skull Helmet like in Savage 2
He should carry a Staff as a weapon with a Hawk sitting on the top of it, maybe some mutated Hawk with Horns, wich would look cool in a creepy and very post - apocalytic style. This hawk could also be the attack animation, it would just fly at the enemy and pick his face :D or something like that. Maybe it could explode in some kind of blue explosion and re apear on the staff (phenix style).
His own Body should look like in Savage 2 same goes for its Pets.

Skills:

Summon Minion:

Summons an Imp (Autofrog) or a Bearloth to aid the Summoner. so i have two Ideas how this could work, First: Click on the Skill to Summon a Imp, if you click it again it turns into a Bearloth, or make such a skill on the Pet itself with high cooldown and not usable when enemys are around. Second: if its day it summons a Baerloth if Nigh an Imp, easy solution.


So basicaly this Skill controls the other skills of the Summoner, all of them are based upen wich pet you are using, the Imp (Autofrog) is a ranged Attacker and the Bearloth something like a (weak) tank unit. Increasing this skills will just buff the Pets, generic i know but why not.


Sorcery of the Nature:

If the Summoner uses an Imp as a pet this spell is a Debuff, it decreases the Armor or maybe the movement speed of the target im not realy sure about this spell. But it should be a debuff

If the Summoner uses a Bearloth it should heal or buff a friendly unit or maybe only a friendly Heroe


Spirit Link:

So this is basicaly the same thing like in Savage besides that it wasnt an ability in Savage (more something of a drawback)
Edit: on lv 1 it would be like if the summoner loses 1 HP the Baerloth would lose 2 HP, something like that and when youre on lv 4 its even. Ok its a bit late and my brains not working correctly i will add numbers tomorrow (at least i think so)
Edit 2: ok i see the skill seems a bit weak so i have an Idea how to make it Usefull: when the Summoner uses 10 percent of the Imps mana for a Spell (basicaly Sorcery of the Nature) it gives the Imp a stackable buff, wich increses the Duration of the Ult by one second. As for the Baerloth: when the Baerloth uses 10 percent of the summoners Health he gains a shield wich can soak up 100 damage (numbers must be tweaked)

If the Summoner uses an Imp as a Pet the Summoner can use the Imps mana for his own Spells when this ability is activated, maybe the Imp can use the Summoners mana too im not realy sure about this one.

If the Summoner uses a Bearloth he can use the Bearloths Health (maybe also vice versa)


Avanger Spirit:

So this is the Ult of the Summoner and it basicaly Sacrifices youre pet and makes an AoE effect around it.

If the Summoner uses an Imp it casts an AoE debuff around itself on all enemy Heroes and units (or maybe only Heroes) maybe it could be Damage too but wouldnt fit the supporter role of the Summoner well.

If the Pet was a Bearloth it should heal or Buff friendly units around it, maybe increased health or increased attack speed very simmilar to the second spell. It could look like a Giant Spirit Bearloth roaring over the battlefield slowly vanishing maybe hold in one colour green or blue.


Summary:

basicaly the Summoner is an support heroe especialy used in Team battles, he can be played in two ways but those two ways can be switched whenever you want excluding in combat (Wich would be redicules) He should be a fun heroe to play with and play against he shouldnt be just "wtf ban this heroe whine whine" like someones are, he should be fun for both sides.



Ok its NOT finished i will add Numbers, details and pictures when i finaly manage to draw him. BUT i want to know what you think about the overal Idea of him, from the Savage Players i want to know if he fits the Summoner how he was in Savage and from the DotA players i want to know if he would be fun/fair/usefull in game!

Edit: some Options for the Summoner

When using Baerloth he could be built as some kind of Tank, imagine him with trinket of restoration and sustainer he could soak up some damage (maybe not so much in late game) while constantly buffing his baerloth.


so please comment!

[Sordak]

Edit: ok im using this Post for Numbers:

Base Stats

Primary Atribute: Intelligence

Atributes + growth:

Intelligence: 18 + 2

Strenght: 17 + 2

Agillity: 15 +1

Movement Speed: 290

Note: im not sure about this one something between 290 and 300 should be nice.

Armor: 1.3

Magic Armor: 3.2

Attack Speed: 100 -111

Note: The Summoner himself is not meant to deal that much DPS on his own, he has to rely on his Pets.

Range: 550

Health: 450

Note: i need help on this one, i want him to have more than average Health for a caster but im not sure about that.

Mana: 230 - 245

Base Damage: 30-42



Learnable Skills:


Summon Minion:

Cost: 170

Cooldown: 40

Summons an Imp to Aid the Summoner, when clicking on the Skill again it turns the imp into a Baerloth and reverse 30 seconds cooldown on this. The cooldown on this skill will start when the Pet dies, not when the skill is used.

Imp:

Imp has:

200/230/260/290 Health

110/170/230/300Mana

11-15/16-20/24-28/32-36 magic damage

550 range

Level 4 Imp has 15% chance to recover 30% mana when hitting an enemy heroe
Note: or should it be some more? like 50%? since the Imp hasnt that much mana.

Baerloth:

Baerloth has:

300/400/500/600 Health

10-12/14-16/18-20/22-24 Physical damage.

Note: Not sure about this one should he do a bit mroe damage? or have more health?

1%/2%/3%/5% chance to respawn with 10% health when he dies this doesnt count if he is sacrificed with the ult.




Sorcery of the Nature:

Cost: 70/90/110/130

Cooldown: 20

Range 600

Imp:

Decreses the attack speed of the target 10/20/30/40 for 3/3/4/5 seconds

Note: I need serious help at this skill, do you think its fair? underpowered? overpowered? or do you think its not usefull enaugh since its not usefull against certain types of Heroes? please some feedback.

Baerloth:

Increases the attack speed of target by 10/20/30/40 for 3/3/4/5 seconds

Note: i can realy see a team of a Summoner and a Pyro mancer, summoner would using the Baerloth as a tank while constantly buffing the Pyromancer who would have some serious OP attack speed.



Soul Link:

Activateable ability

Imp:

when activated the Summoner can use the Mana of the Imp for his own spells.
Note: I will TRY to explain what i have in my mind here maybe someone can help me explianing that in english.
at level one 50% of the used mana will be lost, so if you want to cast a Spellw ich costs 100 mana he would use 150 mana from the Imp.
the Mana loss is 50% / 25% / 0% / -25% that means that if the Summoner would cast a spellf or 100 mana at Soul Link level 4 it would only use 75 Mana of the Imps mana pool.
Everytime the Imp uses 50% mana of his pool lost mana doesnt count on this he will get a stackable Buff. Every stack of this buff will increase the duration of the Ult by 1 second.


Baerloth:

when Activated the Baerloth can use the Health of the Summoner, but the Summoner can also use the health of the Baerloth for his own.
the HP loss is 25%/10%/0%/-15%
Whenever Baerloth used 20% of the Summoners health he gets a Buff wich soaks up 50/75/100/125 damage
Note: basicaly you have to be carefull with this skill, especialy in early game it will INCREASE the damage you get, but later on it can help you alot since it basicaly decreases the damage you get by 15%!, maybe this neads to me tweaked a bit.




Avanger Spirit:

Cost: 150/250/350

Cooldown: 120

This Spell sacrifices the Pet of the Summoner as an Aditonal cost.

Imp:

The Imp vanishes in Blue flickering light a shockwave bursts over the ground making a hissing noise.
Decreases the Attack speed of enemy Units by 20/30/45
Radius: 300/350/360

Baerloth:

The Baerloth ist turned into a vengeful Spirit, his fierce roar and his holy presence boosts the morale of his allies.

Increses the Attack speed of friendly Units by 20/30/45
Radius: 300/350/360

Note: not sure, is it too OP? or isnt it usefull at all? need some seriouse feedback.



Synergies / Thoughts / other stuff:

ok just to add some Numbers. I will continue adding more Details soon and tweaking the abilities after i got some feedback from experienced players.
As you can see i addet some notes in Yellow and some descriptions in Orange, that should help you to give me the feedback i need. But i realy need constructive and serious feedback.

So lets move on. I can realy see him build in different ways,
one might be with the Baerloth, its focused around getting Summon Minion and Soul Link at level 4 as soon as possible, with this build you will use the Baerloth as a tank using youre own HP, basicaly this build wont be that good in early game because of Soul link, but when you have Soul Link at level 3 you can use youre cuddly baerloth as a serious tank while you are standing behind buffing him.
In this build you will need sustainer and as much Health increase as you can get, summoners base health is above average of the most Int heroes but its still not that high, but once you get Soul Link at level 4 youre getting 15% damage less.
The best way playing this is teaming up with maybe a Pyromancer, imagine how much attack speed he could get!
And when youre tank Baerapethingy is about to die you can still kill him to denie his XP to the enemy , buff youreself and finish off the enemy with increased attack speed.
If you werent quick enaugh sacrificing youre pet you can still hope that it respawns.

Another Idea is building him around the Imp, basicaly this build is more annoying to the opponent than the first one.
But it can have some nice effects on Autoattack based heroes and may force them to retreat.
Also dont forget that the Imp himself has a base attack too so you can put out some extra damage.
Especialy in Team battles this build can be usefull, Spamming Sorcery of the Nature in combination with Soul Link at the enemy will not only give youre team an advantage while you dont realy loose any Mana but will also increase the duration of youre ult, when the Imp is out of Mana or nearly dead you just run at the enemies and sacrifice him.
That will decrease theyre attack speed even more and makes them easy targets for youre Team.


Pros / Cons

+Support Heroe wich can take two different roles
+he will give the team some awsome advantages in Team battles
+his Pets can be used for DPS, Pulling creeps, tanking and distraction if needet
+Autofrog gives him an advantage in lasthitting
+when using Imp he will never run out of Mana
-He NEEDS to rely on other Heroes when it comes to direct Damage. alone he will be completpley lost.
-The Summoner lacks in active skills,basicaly he has to rely on Autoattack.
-Baerloth build lacks in early game but also needs different items than the Imp build




OK.... finaliy finished! so i realy need some Feedback PLZ FEEDBACK GIMME!

[Supremacy]

If you're going to make a suggestion, you should have some definitive skills and abilities for people to work with, instead of just a rough idea like "it could slow them or decrease armor".

Coming up with ideas is fine, but most people won't take the time to consider ideas that aren't thought out or refined well enough for people to look at them and consider different playstyles, item builds, synergies, pros, and cons of the hero.

I think I get the basic gist of what you're trying to do with this hero though so I'll add some input.

If the imp gives a slow and the bearloth gives a heal, then he's got some versatility. He would lane well with DPS that either need babysat early against nukers or would provide slows so that they can DPS.

Spirit link seems like a really weak skill, just like Syllabear's old ultimate in dota with the same concept. It sounds good, but it's not nearly as useful as you would think considering you didn't mention anything about the stats or stat gains of the pets.

The ultimate seems like it might be good, but it also seems rather weak for an ultimate depending on the numbers, so I'm not really sure what you had in mind. There are lots of AoE ults I would probably chose over this.

[Sordak]

basicaly i thought about an Imp - Spirit Link - Ult - Combo.

Summon Imp - activate spirit link - cast ult and kill the imp with his own mana and pull of the AoE, free damage. As i said it needs tweaking, my day was horrible as i stated i only wanted to post it i will add numbers tomorrow.

The basic Idea of him was that he should be a support Heroe wich can take several roles (Debuff / Buff) and i wanted to make a Summoner Suggestion that differs from the other ones.

im currently thinking about the skills of the pets, i want to make some use of Spirit link it should be a Major skill (Especialy when used with Baerloth but im not sure)

So i will add some Background (based on Savage 2) and some Numbers tomorrow, dunno if i can draw him. Maybe.

[Rekoil]

Sounds like the hero who can summon a bear. But a supportive version.

[ArtNutrilett]

i liked the idea for the summoners design.... old traditional looking.. great... but i think the skills needs to be changed

[Sordak]

than make some suggestions

edit: FINALY FINISHED! (pictures not duh -.-)

[Sordak]

BUMP because it took me pretty damn long till i finished it! one last Bump i want feedback

edit: im talking about the second post of me! nobody commented on it and it took me damn long


ok i give up.

[Cantspel]

I think one of the skills needs to be the "summoner strike" from S1. Was thinking his ult as a ground targeted AoE, small radius like the voodoo's cursed ground, long distance almost as much as the scouts ult, somewhat slow flight time, but very high damage like the pyro. So even though you can hit multiple people the aiming requires a lot of skillful leading if you use it with any kind of range.

Very much a throw back to the summoner one shot sniping in S1... Which while I hear people HATE, I would think we could make a slightly subdued version on this game.

[Sordak]

i thought about that too, but the problem is that this skill would be too generic and of course not fitting for an Suport heroe, we have enaugh carries. But if you have any possibilities to implent such a skill fitting i would like to hear it.

[Frozenhelfi1]

Imp has:
200/230/260/290 Health
110/170/230/300Mana
11-15/16-20/24-28/32-36 magic damage
550 range

Both of the summons are too weak. These are permanent summons that have skill synergy with the hero, kind of like Syllabear. These summons should be better than a mobile ward (See slither's wards). If this hero is to be viable, the summons should probably have the ability to carry items, but perhaps only 3. The imps current form is useless against almost all spellcasters. Think of how easily Thunderbringer could kill it just with the arc lightning, or Defiler's (carrion swarm).

I think it would be much better as something like this:

350/425/500/610 Health
125/175/225/275 Mana (Can get more by throwing on some intel items)
20-23/26-29/32-35/42-47 Magic Damage
300/362/424/550 Range <- This makes it harder to harass with only the summon.

Also, perhaps add some abilities to make the summons more useful.

Fireball 1-4: Deals 100/150/200/250 magic damage and stuns for 1/1.5/2/2.5 Seconds at the cost of 65/100/130/155 Mana
Mana (Tap<-bad name) 3-4(Only avaliable when imp gets to level3): The imp gains 25/40 mana on attack with a 6 second cooldown. If the imp attacks a hero it gains 35/55 mana.
Mind-Numbing Attacks 4: The imps attacks reduce the targets magic armor by 3(imba perhaps) + the level difference between the summoner and the target, only if the summoner is of higher level.


Baerloth:
300/400/500/600 Health
10-12/14-16/18-20/22-24 Physical damage.
1%/2%/3%/5% chance to respawn with 10% health when he dies this doesnt count if he is sacrificed with the ult.

Since no image was provided, I'm going to assume that he kind of looks like Warbeast (lycans) ultimate.

I would say he should have:

600/900/1200/1500 Health
26-28/30-32/34-36/42-47

Abilities:
Reincarnate 1-4: 10/15/20/25% chance to respawn with 5/10/15/20% life. Why did you give him such a low chance to respawn, when you had him respawning with such low life it'd be easy to just kill him off again?
Bite 1-4: Channeling: Bites the target, stunning them for 1/1.75/2.50/3.25 seconds. Costs 15/13/11/8% of Bealroth's HP per second. (Perhaps he needs a mana pool?)
Pulverize 3-4: 15/25% chance on attack to deal an extra 25/50 damage, and splash 100% damage to enemies in a 200/250 radius. Bealroth takes 25/50 damage.

I will post more soon, but just a synergy though: His second skill and his ultimate both affect attack speed. I think the second skill could be more useful changed to something else, or his ultimate could be changed to something else.

[Sordak]

ok wait a second. Actualy thats what i wanted to hear! hah! yeah i always thought the summonlings need some abilities, thanks for the suggestions i will update the Numbers post, I like youre Ideas on imp, currently thinking about Baerloth. Well ok maybe he needs some higher chance. To be honest i posted lower numbers than those i came first up with because i didnt wanted "uuuuh everyone wants theyre own uber heroe" so i thought, make it a bit weaker and change it after you have some feedback.
I realy like youre Ideas, and i think the Imp will get the Original summoner blast (maybe fireball but i think this is too weak so i would rather not implet the skill based on this) .

As for look , no Bearloth well looks like a combination of a Bear and an Ape (something like this) i cant find a screenshot of Bearloth in Savage 2 but: Savage 1 style: http://gamezone.com.if.ua/savage/bearloth.jpg savage 2 icon http://www14.atwiki.jp/savage2/m/plugin/ref/?guid=on&serial=80 and the anatomy of the Summoner, (but i already made suggestions how to tweak his look thats only abou the ANATOMY) http://www14.atwiki.jp/savage2/m/plugin/ref/?guid=on&serial=77edit: i cant find a picture of the Imp but i think he is already in the Game as a critter. Basicaly hes a humanoid .... Frog with scales. He is not like the Pollywog, smaller and more compact. And he shoots blue LAZ0R SHOTS

[Frozenhelfi1]

(maybe fireball but i think this is too weak so i would rather not implet the skill based on this) .

No its not, if it were any stronger you could easily harass anyone out of the lane with the mana return. The fireball is more of a stun than a damage dealer, this makes the skill useful in team fights :)

As for baelroth's look, I just wanted to make sure it was the type of look that could bite and pulverize.

[Sordak]

yeah but it wont be the Summoner Attack from Savage 1 (wich could onehit an enemy ) i will think about the Naming but i like youre Suggestions since the Char is created for Team battles

[Oerba]

as permanent summons, they need way more health. late game the die just by being looked at.

[Frozenhelfi1]

You should merge your first and second posts into one and reserve that second one for later use. Update the summon numbers & abilities. Right now anyone who looks at it will see a laning hero with almost no place in team battles.

[Strider]

As for look , no Bearloth well looks like a combination of a Bear and an Ape (something like this) i cant find a screenshot of Bearloth in Savage 2 but: Savage 1 style: http://gamezone.com.if.ua/savage/bearloth.jpg savage 2 icon http://www14.atwiki.jp/savage2/m/plugin/ref/?guid=on&serial=80 and the anatomy of the Summoner, (but i already made suggestions how to tweak his look thats only abou the ANATOMY) http://www14.atwiki.jp/savage2/m/plugin/ref/?guid=on&serial=77edit: i cant find a picture of the Imp but i think he is already in the Game as a critter. Basicaly hes a humanoid .... Frog with scales. He is not like the Pollywog, smaller and more compact. And he shoots blue LAZ0R SHOTS

Your suggestion about the look is awfull , the original look is better , the bluish/purple one or the one that can be found in concept art.

The imp is not in HoN yet , nor the bearloth , the idea having imp shoot fireballs is meh , go with Savage 2 style projectile .
The bearloth can look like Savage 2 one , Savage 1 looked just weird and eh.
Abilityes are Ok I guess.

For the Imp and summoner image you can find him here -
http://savage2.com/en/media.php?t=ca

[Sordak]

yes i knew dark strider would post, heh! finaly someone comments on the Look. Well i have more Ideas than this: I will add more suggestions. Btw i came back from Vacation yesterday i think i will update the first post today or tommorrow (merging second and first post and updating the numbers )

Well Dark Strider post youre own suggestion about the look of the summy i like having the Ideas of someone else maybe that could improve my own vision. But to be honest i like the Summoner concept art, exept one thing: the head! I realy dont like how the Head looks in this Art.

[Infinity]

simple no for boring-ness.