Scout - A change in his passive ability

[Icanopen1]

So, the change I propose, and was supported when I mentioned it in another thread is as such:

Replace his current passive, Improve Dexterity, with Command Aura (of Vengeful Spirit from DotA)

Command Aura gives 12/20/28/36% boost in attack power to nearby allied units.


My thinking behind this is
a) it lends more to his attack power, letting him obtain a much better damage output, a problem he is most definitely a victim of

b) it encourages him to be nearby in team fights, and not just waiting around in the back

c) would make it a decent option for him to get Wingbow, since he would no longer be stacking evasion, and riftshards would also now be a cheap starting damage boost for him that wouldn't have to worry about the overlapping crit

[ToxicHobo]

) it lends more to his attack power, letting him obtain a much better damage output, a problem he is most definitely a victim of

Crits stack with bonus damage from vanish though. Doubt he'll see a damage increase. Probably the opposite. Makes me lean towards no


b) it encourages him to be nearby in team fights, and not just waiting around in the back

Solid reasoning there. Makes me lean towards yes


would make it a decent option for him to get Wingbow, since he would no longer be stacking evasion, and riftshards would also now be a cheap starting damage boost for him that wouldn't have to worry about the overlapping crit

Hmm. Another good point

yes from me

[ElementUser]

Enemies will know when Scout is near his team just by looking at whether his teammates have the aura or not (assuming the aura works while Scout is invisible). If it doesn't work when Scout is invis, then it sort of defeats the purpose of the skill. Either way, it sounds more of a nerf than a buff :(. I'd think of another skill that helps his team more that's not aura based.

Btw HI TOXIC! :D

[Tyrando]

Aura based skills just dont belong on heroes that rely heavily on stealth.

[Icanopen1]

Watching aura's is part of the subtlety of the game though, Nevermore for example, with his neg armor aura, people still get lothars on him like crazy

Same with any aura hero, Leoric's vamp aura, if he's coming to gank you from woods, he's not invis, but you have to notice the creeps vamping still.

same with any of the heroes with the hp degen aura like necro, invis or not, whether or not you notice these aura's coming into play is a skill and a learning, not something people do by default, especially in HoN where some of these auras barely even show up

like assault cuirass with its 80% transparent brown glow, or the basilis aura that hardly stands out

since its a team benefit aura, its not like it will show on the user's own status bar

[Mittsies]

Aura based skills just dont belong on heroes that rely heavily on stealth.
IMO he doesn't rely on stealth that much when it comes to team fights. His invisibility is just good for the mobility/escape mechanism -- the backstab damage is just a nifty bonus.

btw +1 on the aura change or something similar. I'd like to see him with some more team orientated abilities. Scout is a cool concept despite being a weak pick at the moment.

[Tyrando]

IMO he doesn't rely on stealth that much when it comes to team fights. His invisibility is just good for the mobility/escape mechanism -- the backstab damage is just a nifty bonus.

btw +1 on the aura change or something similar. I'd like to see him with some more team orientated abilities. Scout is a cool concept despite being a weak pick at the moment.

You ever played scout in a teamfight 5v5, you either die first, or get Aoe'ed down with the rest of your team mates.

Scout is freaking useless in team fights he can make a half decent carry in pubs but then again who cant.

I would rather see Vengeful Spirit get ported over thus giving us the Aura and a more useful hero overall.

[Icanopen1]

Short of command aura I really have no other ideas how to make him a team useful character.

I suppose if we want to ninja off drow some more, we could use silence, but that doesn't help his damage output, and it surely doesn't make sense that he has to silence knocking him out of invis, and then get raped by anything not silenced or restealthing and waiting around until the timer will allow him to restealth.

Ninja'ing Mortred's ult would probably lead to some insane damage, but again, absolutely useless team wise

Idk, I think command aura would be a great substitute, maybe he still wouldnt be a super competitive hero, but not every hero is.

[Giraffe]

this isn't the purpose of scout.. this is the opposite, he's a solo annoying scout not a team player

I voted no for obvious reasons.

[Zcorp]

His wards and ww are very useful to the team. Map control and vision on opponents to initiate is significantly more important most of the time. Especially if he is on a team that is built around gank pushing as a team. Those teams will already have good aoe and team fight skills.

[vontrev]

this isn't the purpose of scout.. this is the opposite, he's a solo annoying scout not a team player

I voted no for obvious reasons.


His wards and ww are very useful to the team. Map control and vision on opponents to initiate is significantly more important most of the time. Especially if he is on a team that is built around gank pushing as a team. Those teams will already have good aoe and team fight skills.

are you both stupid?

[Icanopen1]

this isn't the purpose of scout.. this is the opposite, he's a solo annoying scout not a team player

I voted no for obvious reasons.


His wards and ww are very useful to the team. Map control and vision on opponents to initiate is significantly more important most of the time. Especially if he is on a team that is built around gank pushing as a team. Those teams will already have good aoe and team fight skills.

WTH is wrong with you people, not a team player!?
That's the PROBLEM.

This is HoN/DotA for christs sake, EVERY hero should be a team player, that's the point, if one hero just gets to do w/e the hell he wants that defeats the point of having 4 other team mates.

[khao_]

I agree. It is far too often that the scout on my team has ****ed off to farm or waiting in the forest for the easy kill in team battles. Hopefully this would encourage these players to have some use. Then again, usually the people who play scout are useless anyway and would be completely oblivious to his passive. Meh.

[Icanopen1]

It'd be a terrible mistake on their part, playing vs with just wraithbands can net you +100 real quick

[Garfybold]

If you ask me, the problem with Scout is not his passive. If anything, removing his passive would make him entirely useless. Scout is fragile enough as it is, making him even more fragile would make him even less useful in a team fight.

If you ask me, his problem is his ult. It is only good for one thing, kill stealing. Which does not help your team because there are other heroes who would make much better use of the exp and gold than you.

He is a Scout. Not an assassin, ninja or some sort of sneaky killer. He is a SCOUT, his job should be to gather information for your team to use.
His invisibility lets you do this because you can follow enemy players, his ward skill lets you do this because you can see areas of the map.
His passive and his ult do not do this. His passive I can understand keeping, without it the Scout would have no survivability at all, a single ward in a team fight and he'd be a free kill, he would also have no damage output except for his ult, which is unreliable at best.
IF it is replaced, I'd suggest it be replaced with a similar ability as his other two, something to help him Scout. Maybe it would passively increase his viewing range or something.

His ultimate... How does it even relate to his other skills? It doesn't. If you ask me it should be replaced with a more Scout like ability.
The best suggestions I have seen are the opposite of the Dark Ladies ult. Instead of blinding the enemy team, it would greatly enhance your teams vision, or maybe even let you see the same things as the enemy team for a short time.


At the moment, the major problem with this game is that raw damage output pretty much wins the game, always. There is currently too many heroes whose only focus is to put out a lot of damage in a short time, turning the Scout into another hero like this, or giving him the ability to amplify the damage of other heroes is not going to fix this problem, and if anything would just make it worse.

[Sabre]

I firmly believe that improved dexterity and electric eyes are the good parts of the scout. See the thread in my sig for better changes to vanish and his ult.

Garfy, don't get caught up in a name. Devourer isn't called 'hook o tron' but thats what he does.

[krucifix]

If you ask me, his problem is his ult. It is only good for one thing, kill stealing. Which does not help your team because there are other heroes who would make much better use of the exp and gold than you.


You really think so?

His ulti is a fantastic initiator.

[Mugenrider]

Good idea, but people will be mad if you took away vengeful's skill. So I think you should change it a bit.

[BridgeTroll]

if scout isnt in a team fight crushing someone he has downs. Simple item to stay alive? farm a shrunken head. i love how the majority of the people on these forums have never played DoTA nor do they have a clue about what being an assassin hero is. he has wards to pick off enemy heroes before the team fight. even if you kill one 5v4 is a significant advantage. L2place your wards

[Shixax]

Has no synergy with his other skills. At least now, he can have evasion and crit which allows him to fight a little. Replacing that with raw damage isn't that good of a choice cuz he can't really fight anyway.

[Ass_Fister]

no ... scout is a solo and i like him as it is ...

[MrSoada]

HE DOES NOT NEED ANOTHER USELESS PASSIVE.

Give him an activatable that helps him actually do something. Most useless hero.

[Prattze]

Scout is just a terrible idea imo. They tried to do something cool by clashing sniper and BH but it just didnt work out. Bring back BH and just dont port sniper at all.

But in regards to the spell it has no synergy with his other spells. Scout has no team fight abilities nor does he have the stamina to survive in a team fight giving him an aura wont hlp him at all.

[RenoFox]

Wanna make scout useful? Make it so his snipe can't kill.
Give sight of the target for x amount of time, maybe a decrease in armour?
A mini stun, this is to stop channels. and a increase the length of the slow.
Make it something like a toxic arrow kind of thing.

Now his ulti isn't for KS'in but for starting ganks, preventing escape and team play.

[Tupimus]

Neither the evasion or the crit help Scout at all. He's raped by SPELLS, generally also containing DISABLES. Not by autoattacks. This is a side effect of moving at nearly max MS, you know?

EDIT: To answer the OP, he needs more of a remake. More like make MmS a normal skill, with a rather cheap mana cost, with a channel of a second and stuns for three. And give him a decent ultimate, along with boosting his stat gains.

And remove Improved Dexterity. Sheesh, that's one useless thing for someone who can't stay in a battle at all.

[n0_shit]

Remove wards and add bash. If you're gonna pubstomp at least do it big time.

[pummol]

So...if you do this everyone will know when he's WWed nearby because of the aura buff.

[br0wnie]

no ... scout is a solo and i like him as it is ...

...are you kidding me?
Scout can solo early game and get some kills, and into mid game he just starts getting worse and worse... he then starts to rely on his team to even live, and most of the time is killed in the process. He is just a useless hero in any game that's worth anything. So yeah, scout definitely isn't solo he's just awful.

[Giraffe]

WTH is wrong with you people, not a team player!?
That's the PROBLEM.

This is HoN/DotA for christs sake, EVERY hero should be a team player, that's the point, if one hero just gets to do w/e the hell he wants that defeats the point of having 4 other team mates.

No, you're stupid. Some heroes are team players. This isn't.

[Helgeran1]

Perhaps remove wards and give him BH's track instead?

[Zcorp]

WTH is wrong with you people, not a team player!?
That's the PROBLEM.

This is HoN/DotA for christs sake, EVERY hero should be a team player, that's the point, if one hero just gets to do w/e the hell he wants that defeats the point of having 4 other team mates.

I didn't say he was not a team player. I pointed out that his team play is built around map control. Which is just as important if not more so then an aoe, disable or ally buffing ability.

While I'm not a big fan of the hero and believe some change would be good, misrepresenting him by stating he adds nothing to a team is either displaying your ignorance of strategy or intentionally fallacious.

[willtsay]

lets not reuse any more dota hero spells unless we port the actual dota hero :)

wouldnt want to see a bastardized VS cuz her command aura is gone :P

[Prattze]

Scout brings nothing to a TEAMFIGHT

No matter how much you gank, or get runes, or whatever. The game will come down to which team can kill the other team in a teamfight. Its why you can be kill leading a team with defiler and jerry on it by like 10-15 kills and still lose.

Scout brings NOTHING TO A TEAMFIGHT and dont tell me dbl backstab and ult are good because that is worthless. He has no stamina to attk, no aoe skills, no stuns, no heals, he has nothing to bring to a TEAMFIGHT.

Scout is a terrible worthless hero because if you can win a game with scout on your team you could have just won the game without him.

I would rather have malaphas on my team than a Scout anyday.

[Mittsies]

I dunno, the more I see Scout in games the more I want him removed from HoN or completely remade. The whole "solo" aspect of the hero works against the 5v5 theme. Even sniper worked better because he was a strong DPS with a GOOD ultimate that could finish off opponents at long distances regardless of vision. Giving Scout a damage aura is just random and further goes against his theme.

If I could remake Scout I'd rework him to be more 'Scout' like and useful for team fights.

[_swEEt]

take stats and get a dagon cas u picked scout u already lost

[stariqtmen]

I dunno, the more I see Scout in games the more I want him removed from HoN or completely remade. The whole "solo" aspect of the hero works against the 5v5 theme. Even sniper worked better because he was a strong DPS with a GOOD ultimate that could finish off opponents at long distances regardless of vision. Giving Scout a damage aura is just random and further goes against his theme.

If I could remake Scout I'd rework him to be more 'Scout' like and useful for team fights.

suggesting to remove scout is pretty stupid idea. How about you think a bit and see that some of us, the players, like to play more solo oriented heroes. If you want every hero to be team oriented then every game will be the same with 5 AOE ulti heroes on each team trying to kill each other

[Healbot]

suggesting to remove scout is pretty stupid idea. How about you think a bit and see that some of us, the players, like to play more solo oriented heroes. If you want every hero to be team oriented then every game will be the same with 5 AOE ulti heroes on each team trying to kill each other

You, the player, are probably retarded beyond relief and unable to play a Single Player game when you want to go solo.


I'd much rather have Scout completely removed from game instead of shitting up the public games. The Command aura does not make him a team powerhouse all of a sudden since the aura would only apply when he is not running around in stealth.

[stariqtmen]

You, the player, are probably retarded beyond relief and unable to play a Single Player game when you want to go solo.


I'd much rather have Scout completely removed from game instead of shitting up the public games. The Command aura does not make him a team powerhouse all of a sudden since the aura would only apply when he is not running around in stealth.

here we go again with cursing, I noticed the number of people acting like you increased in game as well.

Well anyway, by that logic lets remove armadon, switftblade, magebane, war beast, night hound, wild soul, and madman as well. I mean they dont have team abilities also right?

[Babycakes]

I say we go more with the "Scout" like substance, but go more along with "Ranger" and lay traps for people. Have something like a mine with a .75/1/1.25/1.5 stun with something like a 100/150/200/250 damage count.

Scout SHOULD be played by WWing through the other team behind them and ulting into their initiator. You go behind them because they typically retreat and you dont want to lose sight. You could enhance this effect by laying mines behind them (should be able to lay mines while invis) to discourage the enemy from retreating.

[Healbot]

here we go again with cursing, I noticed the number of people acting like you increased in game as well.

Well anyway, by that logic lets remove armadon, switftblade, magebane, war beast, night hound, wild soul, and madman as well. I mean they dont have team abilities also right?

Oh look how indignated you post, pip pip.

Arguing logically is not your forte it seems, better try to save face by not posting anymore and go kill yourself.

[Magissia]

Scout is fine guys, stop with it