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View Full Version : In HoN it seems like support heros are the ones carrying...?



Villafranca
05-01-2010, 10:48 AM
Is it just me or in HoN do you feel more like you need a good support hero to win a game rather then a good carry. Maybe its just cuz I dont play ranked or league or anything just pugs really with friends but when I pug and play a carry even If i do good ...we tend to lose but then when I play a carry and im doing good I tend to carry the carry. (not trying to say im great or anything just a though)

Also whats the best type of hero to play to pugs should I play support to win or is carry better and im just not seeing it??

Killstealing
05-01-2010, 11:06 AM
a great support immensely helps the carry, however if the carry player is bad you can support all you want but if he fails he will drag you down as well.

Dev
05-01-2010, 11:08 AM
Is it just me or in HoN do you feel more like you need a good support hero to win a game rather then a good carry. Maybe its just cuz I dont play ranked or league or anything just pugs really with friends but when I pug and play a carry even If i do good ...we tend to lose but then when I play a carry and im doing good I tend to carry the carry. (not trying to say im great or anything just a though)

Also whats the best type of hero to play to pugs should I play support to win or is carry better and im just not seeing it??
Yeah playing a hard carry is a bit different in low-mid skill games compared to higher skill games because in 1600~ pubs it seems like all the support tries to go and take the carry's farm. For example it seems like every DS that ends up on my team runs and uses his heal on a creep wave and pushes it way back, or I have a Witch Slayer taking all the neutral creeps leaving the carry with less farm.

To win games I'd suggest a semicarry like Valk, Corrupted Disciple, and Soulstealer work well. Pushers like Defiler work very well too in mid skill games.

Jerada
05-01-2010, 11:33 AM
I've played pubs and have done a lot of wonders with a carry. I've played a reliable game and has done a lot of wonders with a support too. Thing is this two heroes are all about the team so they both rely on how great the team is. Unless you think of going support carry like a killer jezeraih or accursed or a semi-carry like CD, FA, and SS. You wouldn't make wonders with a bad team mate.

And yes I said a killer jez and accursed, this things are possible and can be done good but not really acceptable in "team" games.

Villafranca
05-01-2010, 11:48 AM
What are the ture carry heros on HoN then.... I thought CD and FA where one of them.

nehamia
05-01-2010, 12:58 PM
^ depends on what carries you are referring to..
there are:

a.) hard carries - examples are :dark::sand::scou::mage::chro:

and

b.) semi-carries - :defi::wret::souls::corr:

agi as main stat =/= always carry
as an example, take fayde (agi type, but horrible carry potential)

Skull4er
05-01-2010, 01:06 PM
try to combine both at once and you are teh man for every situation!

never mess with carryziah! the unbeatable accrused! or carryphora!

(yes this is sarcasm and should only be done in pubs :) )

Neru
05-01-2010, 01:18 PM
^ depends on what carries you are referring to..
there are:

a.) hard carries - examples are :dark::sand::scou::mage::chro:

and

b.) semi-carries - :defi::wret::souls::corr:

agi as main stat =/= always carry
as an example, take fayde (agi type, but horrible carry potential)

Actually I'd say its split more like this:

a.) Hard Carry's - :dark::sand::mage::scou:

b.) Carry's - :swif::fors::zeph::souls::chro:

c.) Semi-Carry's - :wret::nigh::hamm::pred::engi:

Hard carrys pretty much have to farm most of the game and then unleash the beast end of mid/early late game. They rarely help in teamfights and prefer to farm till they have their core/start of luxury.

Carrys are smaller hardcarrys who are more useful throughout the game so they can leave their farm and gank/commit to teamfights and pushes more often. Chronos was a hardcarry but his recent changes have turned him into a more helpful mid game hero.

Semi-carrys are your classic midlaners and strong heroes throughout the game. They gank and destroy early/mid and if they do enough of that they can come into the late game with decent DPS. If they don't get enough early kills/assists they'll just turn into squishies lategame and let the hardcarry take over.

Skull4er
05-01-2010, 01:20 PM
chronos is a hardcarrie (btw), he just becomes a little bit too good through the whole game :)

Chimpette
05-01-2010, 05:06 PM
I saw a Witch Slayer carry.

pk_thunder
05-01-2010, 05:15 PM
I saw a Witch Slayer carry.
:HarkonsBlade:
works on all int heroes, but ws can use it most cus his atk animation is one of the better ones for ints and he already has tons of disables/stuns/massive magic dmg skills that have synergy with harkons

you can carry with any hero, just others can do it better

there are tons of retards that go carry on retard heroes like glacius, those are the baddies. carrynymph, carry-slayer, carrybringer, etc work better than the rest of the not-rly-carries-but-can-carry-just-not-as-well heroes

Meowshi
05-01-2010, 05:26 PM
In pubs, proper lane synergy beats everything up until the 1700+ level.

If you can coordinate with your team to have a hammer pyro / demsha pesti / pharaoh lane, and you actually win all 3 lanes (Which isn't hard when they're busting out jera zephyr / tempest / chronos solo / valkyrie solo), you've guaranteed yourself a 15 minute concede

Support isn't babysitter, those two are different classes. Jera and Accursed are honestly really bad heroes in the laning phase unless they are matched up with ranged heroes (and even then jera is kind of iffy)

Babysitters win games in pubs.

It`sOver9000
05-01-2010, 06:03 PM
but ws can use it most cus his atk animation is one of the better ones for ints

Wtf? His atk animation is one of the worst and it comes with an equally bad projectile! Even Nymphora has a better attack animation.

pk_thunder
05-01-2010, 06:05 PM
Wtf? His atk animation is one of the worst and it comes with an equally bad projectile! Even Nymphora has a better attack animation.
well u don't see pyro harkons for a reason

and :nymp: projectile speed is slower than ws's

I also like how someone who has played 11 games on a smurf with 10 cd and not even close to 2.0 adr is saying that too

Cyra
05-01-2010, 06:27 PM
b.) Carry's - :chro:
Wat. Chronos is a hard carry without a doubt. Having such a massively sized, long duration AoE stun which passes through magic immunity is EXTREMELY strong. You can either pick off the enemy team's carry (anti-carry) or just nuke down a few squishies. The more farm you get, the more people you can take out in the ultimate.

The main issue with the defining of carry's to specific "hard-carry" "carry" or "semi-carry" is the fact that not all heroes are balanced just right. Like :sand: is (designed) a hard carry, but right now he's just kinda pathetic all around. Some other heroes basically suffer from this, where they're meant to by X but are actually Y.



On topic, however, it is true that a good support hero practically carry's a game, they give the carry the farm and keep the enemy's in check while the carry bashes their face into the ground. It's really just how the names came out, support hero's had obvious names but I personally can't think of a 'conventional' name for carry heroes. They're kinda new.

It`sOver9000
05-01-2010, 07:56 PM
well u don't see pyro harkons for a reason

and :nymp: projectile speed is slower than ws's

I also like how someone who has played 11 games on a smurf with 10 cd and not even close to 2.0 adr is saying that too

I like how someone who's played 125 games and is still stuck at 1525 PSR is going to try to character assassinate an account that's been inactive for over a month, based on stats. I don't care about the denies you rack up at the 30 minute mark, lol.

Also, attack animation. Who cares about projectile speed when you're trying to chase someone? It's the attack animation that matters, and WS has a pretty awful one. The only time projectile speed matters is if you lane, but seeing as nymph has a shorter range it's a moot point to compare them. Really, your whole argument is flawed though.

ElementUser
05-01-2010, 08:42 PM
Actually, Nymphora's projectile speed is the same as Witch Slayer's (900)

Gredenko
05-01-2010, 10:23 PM
Good support players win games in higher-rated games/inhouses with good people.

yyr_
05-01-2010, 10:41 PM
Hard ----------------------- Normal ----------------------- Semi

DPS Whore ----------------------------------------------- Versatile

Farmer --------------------------------------------------- Ganker

:sand: ------------:chro:----------- :fors:----------- :corr:------------ :valk:

Thats pretty much how it works as a general rule, as always there are exceptions. I just shoved those 5 heroes in as examples.


...

:souls::valk: are like the two perfect examples of a semi carry. :pred::nigh::engi: are not semi carries.

OprahWinfrey
05-04-2010, 10:37 PM
Meh, depends on your definition of carry.
Mine is "One who can take on their team soloing who most of their team"
Supports in my head are the people who pretty much support the team in living ultmately helping the team live = more people fighting = more deaths/kills

Najda
05-04-2010, 10:49 PM
CarryMancer = ftw. If your team has good people on it then just go support, if not, then you can just carry :D

Tweak
05-04-2010, 11:45 PM
Is it just me or in HoN do you feel more like you need a good support hero to win a game rather then a good carry. Maybe its just cuz I dont play ranked or league or anything just pugs really with friends but when I pug and play a carry even If i do good ...we tend to lose but then when I play a carry and im doing good I tend to carry the carry. (not trying to say im great or anything just a though)

The supports job is pretty much to get the carry to get farmed up to carry the team. So when you say you Carry the Carry.. your doing your job. A carry 90% will need a supporter.

Grovel
05-05-2010, 08:13 AM
At what point do people actually start picking Heroes that complement their team or actually discuss composition during picking phase?

I've been playing no-stat noob matches for almost a month now, just learning as much as I can about every Hero and trying to find one that suits my playstyle. I also watch every Honcast VoD I can and it's a completely different world. I can see how roles play out in competitive games, but every game I've played in HoN is won or lost by which team has less rage-quiters/complete r-tards.

I guess I should just really work on a semi-carry like Valk, CD, Hag, FA, or Engie and forget about my love for D-sham, Soul Reaper and Accursed...

Najda
05-05-2010, 06:09 PM
At what point do people actually start picking Heroes that complement their team or actually discuss composition during picking phase?

I've been playing no-stat noob matches for almost a month now, just learning as much as I can about every Hero and trying to find one that suits my playstyle. I also watch every Honcast VoD I can and it's a completely different world. I can see how roles play out in competitive games, but every game I've played in HoN is won or lost by which team has less rage-quiters/complete r-tards.

I guess I should just really work on a semi-carry like Valk, CD, Hag, FA, or Engie and forget about my love for D-sham, Soul Reaper and Accursed...

That's the problem with noob games, and especially no-stat games. People don't care about the game that much when theres no stats, and well, noob games are noob games. Play games without noob in the title, and if you try to join games where you are the lower psr in the game, you will start to learn more. (If you are a 1450, join 1400-1600 games instead of 1300-1500)

Puzzles1
05-05-2010, 06:15 PM
In low rated games carries are pretty much pointless for this exact reason. The "real" carries are the semicarries like Hag, Soulstealer, Valk, Engineer, Corrupted Disciple, Defiler, etc.

mikelorus
05-05-2010, 06:20 PM
It does seem like that, probably because it's true. If you have a team of
:mage::madm::scou::nigh::swif:
Then you're screwed; you have absolutely no chance of winning. Converesely, if you have a team of

:deme::andr::slit::vood::nymp:
You have a decent chance.

That is not to say that carries aren't important; one carry is extremely effective in a lineup. However, the real reason you feel like carries are not as important in pubs is because much of the game is determined in the early lanes, and most carries have no lane presence. You have to rely on your support heroes and casters to actually make it to late game, so for that reason carries don't feel as important by comparison.