Snapdragon (Pusher)

[NuneShelping]

It's known across Newerth that humans and beasts have undergone immense
evolution since the days of the ancients. But what has nature been up to? I wonder...

______________Snapdragon
http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4033&stc=1&d=1271456549 (http://firequill.deviantart.com/)
____The Snapdragon is a strange creature, neither man nor beast. One quiet eve, it crept
forth from the Wilds into the Legion base, its many mouths snapping at passing insects and
birds. The commanding guard approached it warily and offered it a captured Hellbourne zombie.
From the plant's vibrant purple bulb came a magnificent dragon-like head which devoured the
zombie whole. From its blood-dripping mouth a pink leaf hung like a tongue. The Legion trained
the Snapdragon to fight with them against the Hellbourne, and it does so obediently; though
not for justice, and not for vengeance--for food.

Inject Spores (Q)
The Snapdragon injects a pod of spores into an enemy. If the target is killed by the injection, Snaplings spawn.
Skill Mechanics: Deals damage to the target; if the target dies within 2 seconds, Snaplings spawn.
Snaplings: Melee, 350 health, 0 armor, 18 physical damage, worth 6-8 gold, 60 second lifetime, apply Infected for 2 seconds.
Snaplites: Melee, 200 health, 0 armor, 9 physical damage, worth 2-4 gold, 60 second lifetime.
Infected units spawn 1 Snaplite upon death.
Damage type is magic.
(1) 75 damage, spawns 1 Snapling
(2) 150 damage, spawns 2 Snaplings
(3) 225 damage, spawns 3 Snaplings
(4) 300 damage, spawns 4 Snaplings

Range: 600
Mana: 120
Cooldown: 10

Toxin Cloud (W)
The Snapdragon releases a toxic cloud from his bulb, weakening enemies and dealing damage over time.
Skill Mechanics: In a large AoE, reduces enemies' base damage and deals damage over time.
Damage type is physical.
(1) 8 damage per second, -5 base damage
(2) 16 damage per second, -10 base damage
(3) 24 damage per second, -15 base damage
(4) 32 damage per second, -20 base damage

Range: 600
Radius: 350
Mana: 120
Duration: 12
Cooldown: 16

Living Barbs (Passive)
The Snapdragon shields nearby allies with thorn-covered branches.
Skill Mechanics: Enemies who damage the Snapdragon or nearby allies take damage. Creeps return 75% less damage.
Is triggered by all sources of damage except damage over time spells.
Can be toggled to affect only heroes.
Damages towers.
Damage type is physical.
(1) 10 (2.5) damage returned
(2) 20 (5) damage returned
(3) 30 (7.5) damage returned
(4) 40 (10) damage returned

Radius: 900

Ultimate: Vine Grasp (R)
The Snapdragon thrusts its vines into the ground and grabs an enemy, letting him move them around while damaging them over time.
Skill Mechanics: Stuns an enemy and allows the player to move them slowly while dealing damage over time. Channeled. Cancelled by being hit numerous times.
On cast, target enemy is selected; first second of channeling cannot be manually broken.
Being attacked 5/7/9 times, or being interrupted, causes the channeling to end.
Enemy is moved at 200 ms and can be dragged over cliffs, units and trees.
Gives player 400 radius sight around target.
Damage type is magical.
(1) 100 damage per second, lasts 3 seconds
(2) 100 damage per second, lasts 4 seconds
(3) 100 damage per second, lasts 5 seconds

Range: 600/800/1000
Mana: 150/200/250
Cooldown: 90/75/60

[sunnr]

Until he was well prepared, but as a small plant that contains this great damage return?

[NuneShelping]

Until he was well prepared, but as a small plant that contains this great damage return?

I'm sorry--what? I don't know what you just said. o.O

[Verith]

Great hero, I love the subtle synergy between abilities (causing enemies to randomly run around gets people infected/reinfected, etc.) and how everything comes together to make a well rounded hero. My only concern with the hero is that his damage output seems pretty small overall, even assuming you get a good poison snap spread going around. Besides the disorientation and the ultimate being some decent disable, I worry this hero wouldn't be very strong.

Perhaps my concerns are unfounded though, and I do love the hero design. Hats off to you sir! If you get a chance please take a moment to check out my hero(es) in my signature and tell me what you think.

[NuneShelping]

Yeah, I thought about him lacking damage as well. I think if it turns out he needs more, some small damage can be added to Fling Mud, in fact, I think that's a good idea. I can even make it physical and hit towers, furthering his role! :)

Thanks, mate. I'll check out your hero.

[Passthechips]

I'd say give fling mud damage, but reduces the amount of time the opponents are feared by about .35 seconds.

[NuneShelping]

I'd say give fling mud damage, but reduces the amount of time the opponents are feared by about .35 seconds.

Good advice, thanks. :) I'll decrease the fear duration by .5 across the board. At low levels, it still functions as an ability that stops channeling, so its fine with a short duration.

[NuneShelping]

Anything else I should change? Are you guys sure he doesn't do TOO much damage now? All 4 of his abilities hurt...

[girls]

Nice concept!

1: I personally hate things that make me lose control of my character, in addition if you were hit with mud would you really run around scared? Also, a 10 second cooldown on an effect that like would drive me insane. Would you be up for having this ability do something else? Perhaps a blind and slow? For example, when hit the targets are slowed for 50/60/70/80%, decreasing over 2(or whatever) seconds and lowering their accuracy by a similar amount, also decreasing over time?

2: I like this ability, it will cause havoc amongst a team.

3: So a Thorns aura that is weaker for allies? Seems good, fits well with hero.

4: So for this ability at level 4, you can move a hero 1000 units over 5 seconds, causing 450 damage? Hmm, sounds a bit rough. Is the hero you grab able to attack or cast spells, or are they completely stunned for this duration? In addition, if you use this move as a initiation it would be nearly impossible to stop without the enemy team diving out at you, no? Might want to consider allowing the enemies to "break" the hold on you via attacking Y times or dealing X damage kind of like the Smoker in L4D.

Overall I really like the concept, I just hate fear effects or things that make me lose control, as in ability 1, and ability 4 seems a bit strong/unclarified.

[NuneShelping]

Regarding 1: I didn't want to actually "blind" the target (make them miss), cause that's the opposite of what he wants for Thorns. Don't think of them as scared from the mud, but scared of being blind! Fear is an underused disable and it synergizes really well with the poison since it causes the enemy to mix up, so I want to keep it in.

Regarding 4: "Break the hold on you by attacking Y times"--that's exactly how it works. Maybe I didn't highlight it enough in the description, but the spell is broken by being hit OR by being interrupted.

That said, the target is stunned the entire time. Think of it like Pollywog's Tongue Hold or Electrician's Grip. It is a bit stronger in that it has longer range, allows control of the enemy (slow) and deals more damage, but it can be cancelled by simply attacking him, plus its an Ultimate!

[Trilles]

Liked the concept :D good one

[NuneShelping]

Thanks. :)

[Homeblest]

I don't see how your hero's skills have anything to do with pushing.

But i really like the concept though, makes a good ganker/roamer early to mid game.

[NuneShelping]

No problem Homeblest, let me try to point out why his strengths are in pushing!

Start by looking at Skill 3: Living Barbs. Skill 3, the thorns variant, just destroys enemy teams in a war of attrition. As you sit outside their base/tower, all attempts at fighting back ultimately hurt them, and all you have to do is stand there! Additionally, their towers take damage from thorns, so some passive damage against the fortifications slowly whittle it down--not to mention the bias this adds to your creep waves.

Now for Skills 1 and 2, Mud Fling and Poison Snap. Poison Snap, because of its contagious nature, gives Snapdragon a good way to break up enemy teams (turtlers, anyone?!). If a team is turtled up at the front of their base, biting one of them with a Poison Snap will cause them to scatter, or at least drive one of them away from their friends. And that's where Skill 1 comes in! If they have good micromanagement, your Poison Snap won't completely be wasted, as Mud Fling causes the enemy to run around randomly, spreading the poison! They'll DEFINITELY want to spread out after that, otherwise they'll continue to take tons of damage.

Meanwhile, the Mud Fling does damage to the tower, and creep waves, again just more power to whittle the enemy base down in a slow war of attrition.

Lastly, the ultimate. It may not be very obvious, but the range and "Cliff-walking" aspect of this skill are what make it excellent at pushing. Giving Snapdragon a way to draw out the enemy, or keep one busy in the back, is what a good pusher needs. Sure, he'll be sitting their channeling, but meanwhile his poison is spreading all over and anyone who tries to fight back is continually taking damage from thorns.

The romans and greeks used to do it best--war; that is, and how? They used attrition based combat! They'd starve the enemy, slowly work them down, make their every move work against them. That's what Snapdragon does. And that's why I think he's a solid pusher. Or at least, I hope so. :) Hope that clarified his role!

[GayWorld3D]

I like this hero a lot but i agree with the poster that said it was not a pusher. Its only push thing is the thorns aura. I would not qualify the ult as a pushing ult since that would mean devourer is a pusher since he can hook units out of the base. Seems like a good support hero though.

[NuneShelping]

You don't think Poison Snap is an effective way to break into a base? Or that Fling Mud is a good way to whittle a tower down (though I do see how the latter could just be 'tacked on damage', it still helps!)

[Khrrck]

A lot of good pushers are good support heroes and vice versa. Supporting your creeps to keep them alive while they attack enemy creeps/the tower is just as handy as attacking the tower directly. And being good at supporting creeps of course means you can support other heroes too. ;)

Heroes with only one role are boring and pretty limited, too. A hero that does nothing but push is predictable, easier to counter and useless in situations when he can't really push. Much better to have a utility hero that's best at pushing but useful for other things. ;)

And the hero as is can push pretty hard. I'd say max out Living Barbs (grabbing a level of Poison Snap along the way to help kill enemy creep waves), work on buying an Astrolabe to further buff up and heal your creeps, and you'll be starting to push like a beast even at level 5.

[NuneShelping]

Well said, Khrrck. Dedicated pushers don't really exist, and for good reason. 1 or 2 abilities which favor pushing is all a hero needs. In this case, I think all 4 of Snapdragon's abilities in some way lend themself to pushing, some more than others.

Astrolabe definitely seems like a possible choice, but the hero has a severe mana dilemma. Either Bottle, Nomes, Arcane Ring or some other form of mana regeneration would be ideal. Since he is agility, he should be able to avoid armor items in favor of health and mana, so Sacrificial Stone might be a smart choice (especially given his Thorns aura).

[myTai]

Poison snap and vine grasp should be better balanced throughout the levels. Level 1 of poison snap deal 40 dmg, while level 4 of the same spell deals 256 dmg. The scaling from level one should be buffed to about 1.5-7 times more and then scale the other levels appropriately to meet the same level 4 max. Same thing goes with the ultimate, you increase the damage AND duration of both poison snap and vine grasp. Spells like they pretty much always have constant damage butt just increase the duration. Take Electrician's static grip and Pollywog Priest's Tongue Tied for examples of how to balance such spells. Other than that it's an interesting concept but the hero seems a bit underpowered overall. Minor tweaks here and there would fix most things though.

[NuneShelping]

Poison snap and vine grasp should be better balanced throughout the levels. Level 1 of poison snap deal 40 dmg, while level 4 of the same spell deals 256 dmg. The scaling from level one should be buffed to about 1.5-7 times more and then scale the other levels appropriately to meet the same level 4 max. Same thing goes with the ultimate, you increase the damage AND duration of both poison snap and vine grasp. Spells like they pretty much always have constant damage butt just increase the duration. Take Electrician's static grip and Pollywog Priest's Tongue Tied for examples of how to balance such spells. Other than that it's an interesting concept but the hero seems a bit underpowered overall. Minor tweaks here and there would fix most things though.

You make a good point, and I'd expect the numbers to be tweaked if it were ever implemented. For now, I'm just going to leave it as is, as like any suggestion, tweaks are going to be necessary no matter what. Since any changes would not be reflected in the Contest, and its only small modifications to damage--I figure its not a big deal. Thanks for the input though.

[Abalabalab]

Sketch for your hero is done, wait a moment and i'll post everything neccesary on my suggestion page :b

Edit:

Hi Again, as you noticed there was no sketch on my page, only i could see them because i allready owned the files, you just had a small box with a X in.. anyways, it was never intended there should be no sketch, and it should now work properly.

http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?p=1488793#post1488793

[NuneShelping]

Since the contest has been reopened for edits, I've decided to make some changes.

Changing the second skill was my primary goal, but in doing so I've removed a lot of the reason for the first, so I will likely change it soon. That said, the new second skill is much more synergistic with his third and fourth skills, and helps tie in his playstyle more, so I like it a lot.

Anyone have any opinions? I am also unsure about a few details: Should the damage from Acid Spray affect towers?
Should Living Barbs work against (non-DoT) spells?
Does the hero's primary attribute make sense (Agility)? It will inherently give him a lot of armor; great with his "getting hit" playstyle, but it doesn't take advantage of his inherent attack speed.
Should I focus Skill 1 around attack speed?Thanks!

[NuneShelping]

I decided that a Brood Mother Spawn Spiderlings like spell would fit pretty nicely. I was initially against summons, but it just sort of fits too nicely not to use. Summons help push, and they work really nicely with the damage return and channeled ultimate. I think it fits pretty nicely.

I've noticed that the skillset has also allowed for him to be a potential jungle hero, interestingly. While his late-game prowess is limited, it is an interesting possibility; it would play out very similar to Ophelia. He doesn't have much ganking power, or carrying power, due to his lack of scaling and lack of disables, which is good. I don't see a lot of AoE power either, though he does have a role in teamfights in terms of initiation and breaking into a turtled base (Ultimate/Acid Spray). Seems like he is a pusher, through and through, with some added minor uses, yes?

Any thoughts?

[Kicka55]

Will your living barbs stack with barbed armor in fights?

[NuneShelping]

Sure, that would be a good item for him! I was thinking Nullstone/Blood Stone could be ideal, or Shrunken Head, but Barbed would be a very interesting item too!

Shrunken+Barbed+Ulti, I dare the enemy to attack him!

[Kevin]

Hey Ninjarr, really like the hero!

Just one minor query; the second ability doesn't have a damage type! I vote Physical, since it's all acid-y. :)

T-up!

[NuneShelping]

Just one minor query; the second ability doesn't have a damage type! I vote Physical, since it's all acid-y. :)Oops! Yeah, I agree it should deal physical damage. I am not sure if I think it should affect towers, need to decide... If I want it to only debuff but not damage them, I could make it magical. Hm...

[MADD411]

Nice, ult is my favorite though.

[NuneShelping]

Ya, me too. Do you think the first two skills work well enough with it?

I sorta envision the Snappers to be attacking the unit hes gripping, and the poison to be right over him damaging the enemies/making them hit him for less...

[MADD411]

DOT stacking always stacks well. Moving them where you want them helps too.

[killerkrill]

Why not make this a full on broodmother port instead of making a alch/cent/batrider bastard child?

[NuneShelping]

While some of the skills are similar, the first even a complete copy, the playstyle is completely different. The way that the second, third and fourth skills work is very, very different from the ones you're referring to. They have completely different purposes.

[NuneShelping]

Made some minor balance changes to skills and skillset. I thought that Spiderlings + Disable was too powerful, so I weakened the Snaplings/Snaplites and removed the slow. I thought 3 spells that damage towers was too powerful, so I removed Toxin Cloud's affect on towers. I thought Living Barbs was too weak, so I improved it on allied heroes.

CHANGES:
Weakened Snaplings and Snaplites, removed the slow from Infected.
Removed Toxin Cloud's affect on buildings, it now serves primarily as a counter-turtling and pushing tool.
Buffed Living Barbs such that allied heroes return 40 damage, not 10.
Also increased the range of Vine Grasp by 0/100/200, to make it more of an anti-turtle ability and scale a bit more.

Would love any additional feedback regarding those changes or the hero overall. Especially help with balance.

[KissMyHook]

If you want to win the contest change the first skill.S2 dont want to put a broodmother semi port.The second skill is unoriginal.The third one is imba against heroes like armadon and weak against other non aoe heroes(remake it).The ult seems OK but it resembles succubusses ult too much.
The name and concept of the hero looks cool though.

[NuneShelping]

Do you have any evidence that S2 doesn't want a Brood Mother semi-port? Also, how is the second skill unoriginal with respect to HoN? There is no ability in HoN that is used in this way that I know of...

I'll consider tweaking the third skill so Armadon doesn't instagib.